[Game Update] - 565757

[Fufuji]

What about Wolfgang filler skills? Shouldn't we have mightiness maxout skills removed and get something cooler?

[Dr. Safety]

23 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

Klei 'balancing' skill trees as they proceed to not touch wolfgang even once, trippling down on his garbage design:

Wolfgang is fine though. The other two characters had fundamental issues with their character perks before the skill tree was added. Wormwood was all around underwhelming compared to most of the cast and Woodie's transformations were useless for the most part except for very specific situations. Wolfgang was good besides planar damage. They gave him perks to fix that as well as some useful and fun perks. Don't fix what isn't broken

[Fufuji]

12 minutes ago, Dextops said:

Wolfgang’s skill tree doesn’t need any balance, nothing in it is op or anything near that 

These are not OP when compared to Wolfgang himself. But DST is mostly a PVE game and whether OP or not depends when he's compared to mobs and other challenges. 

Even without these new skills Wolfgang is very powerful against all mobs including the current planar entities. However I think the greatest problem is not he is OP or not with these new skills. It is that he's skills are almost all filler skills with little fun and creativity. 15% working efficiency bonus and 150 mightiness improve little for him, and simply adding his stats feels boring.

[ALCRD]

7 hours ago, V2C said:

• Halved the health regeneration guaranteed by the "The Weremoose II" skill.
• Decreased the physical damage dealt by Weremoose mastery’s smashing punch.

I blame The Beard 777 for this..

Edited July 20, 2023 by ALCRD

[Dextops]

Just now, Fufuji said:

It is that he's skills are almost all filler skills with little fun and creativity. 15% working efficiency bonus and 150 mightiness improve little for him, and simply adding his stats feels boring.

i honestly don't blame klei. he's a very controversial character for little to no reason. anything slightly good would've been called op and i think that limits their options a ton.

[Captain_Rage]

The moose is loose!

[Lardee]

After testing the Weremoose today, I can say that the nerf to his regeneration is the perfect balance of rewarding the player for knowing how to kite/charge cancel, but also not being too OP to the point where it's a crutch.

With the exception of Bee queen, he can beat all the bosses he could before the regeneration nerf with pretty much the same resources (all seasonal bosses, AG, Nightmare Werepig, Dragonfly, Toadstool, Shadow Pieces, Klaus, Twins of Terror, and Celestial Champion).  You just have to rely more on his increased mobility and charge canceling instead of just face tanking..

[CyberSkink]

2 minutes ago, Lardee said:

After testing the Weremoose today, I can say that the nerf to his regeneration is the perfect balance of rewarding the player for knowing how to kite/charge cancel, but also not being too OP to the point where it's a crutch.

With the exception of Bee queen, he can beat all the bosses he could before the regeneration nerf with pretty much the same resources (all seasonal bosses, AG, Nightmare Werepig, Dragonfly, Toadstool, Shadow Pieces, Klaus, Twins of Terror, and Celestial Champion).  You just have to rely more on his increased mobility and charge canceling instead of just face tanking..

I at least want Klei to add the ability to not be completely stun-locked

[chirsg]

2 minutes ago, Lardee said:

After testing the Weremoose today, I can say that the nerf to his regeneration is the perfect balance of rewarding the player for knowing how to kite/charge cancel, but also not being too OP to the point where it's a crutch.

With the exception of Bee queen, he can beat all the bosses he could before the regeneration nerf with pretty much the same resources (all seasonal bosses, AG, Nightmare Werepig, Dragonfly, Toadstool, Shadow Pieces, Klaus, Twins of Terror, and Celestial Champion).  You just have to rely more on his increased mobility and charge canceling instead of just face tanking..

I never did facetank any boss. Getting damaged even against non enraged dragonfly is too much waste against the inevitable enraged dragonfly afterwards. It's a waste of HP.
Getting that little bit over, as close as possible to max HP is pretty crucial to surviving when the fly goes red. 

Regeneration was overtuned for sure, but the damage nerf rewards bad game design with cancelled jab 1

2 minutes ago, CyberSkink said:

I at least want Klei to add the ability to not be completely stun-locked

I disagree. I believe that superarmor between punch 2 and 3 incentivizes tanking. I think just give back original smash damage and be done with it. 

[cropo]

Weremoose just seems too gimmicky to even bother with. It's probably still useable, but I'd rather just swap between a walking cane and a hambat or dark sword. The first iteration made me consider using it, but it's current state feels more like it's a silly gimmick ability and just not worth the points. 

 

I've always thought Werebeaver was useful even pre-skill tree despite what people say about it, so when I play Woodie again I'm probably just gonna go all-in on beaver. Getting a weaker walking cane is cool but it's far easier to play as WX and get a lightbulb and movement speed circuit and have night immunity and godly exploration anyway. An easy armor craft is kinda cool, but I always keep a stack of pigskins on me due to how easy they are to farm and just make football helmets as I need them. 

 

So aside from spawning in treeguards and his old moose which doesn't seem as enticing now, Woodies skill tree is effectively just a decent QoL on his transformation timers and passive shadow creatures, which is still nice.

 

 

Wormwood just feels like a complete mess to me. 

[Dr. Safety]

1 minute ago, CyberSkink said:

I at least want Klei to add the ability to not be completely stun-locked

Ah yes... I'll never forget when the Woodie refresh first came out...

"Oh boy, this moose charge is great for AOE. Frog rains will be a breeze!" I would say to myself... the fool I was...

"Oh... well eventually they will stagger their attacks poorly and I'll escape" I thought to myself hopefully. How dreams were crushed in an onslaught of croaks and tongues.

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Lardee said:

After testing the Weremoose today, I can say that the nerf to his regeneration is the perfect balance of rewarding the player for knowing how to kite/charge cancel, but also not being too OP to the point where it's a crutch.

With the exception of Bee queen, he can beat all the bosses he could before the regeneration nerf with pretty much the same resources (all seasonal bosses, AG, Nightmare Werepig, Dragonfly, Toadstool, Shadow Pieces, Klaus, Twins of Terror, and Celestial Champion).  You just have to rely more on his increased mobility and charge canceling instead of just face tanking..

These bosses weren't face tankable by weremoose pre patch though and most were beatable pre skill tree so I don't really see much of a change personally.

[Mike23Ua]

13 minutes ago, Lardee said:

After testing the Weremoose today, I can say that the nerf to his regeneration is the perfect balance of rewarding the player for knowing how to kite/charge cancel, but also not being too OP to the point where it's a crutch.

With the exception of Bee queen, he can beat all the bosses he could before the regeneration nerf with pretty much the same resources (all seasonal bosses, AG, Nightmare Werepig, Dragonfly, Toadstool, Shadow Pieces, Klaus, Twins of Terror, and Celestial Champion).  You just have to rely more on his increased mobility and charge canceling instead of just face tanking..

That’s interesting but how much of it is do-able with an Xbox Controller? *inserts troll face gif here*

[Lardee]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

These bosses weren't face tankable by weremoose pre patch though and most were beatable pre skill tree so I don't really see much of a change personally.

Have you tried out these fights pre-patch?

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Lardee said:

Have you tried out these fights pre-patch?

I've tried a fair bit of them but I'll admit not all due to time.

[Lardee]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

I've tried a fair bit of them but I'll admit not all due to time.

Nice, just wanted to see how much we can compare notes.  When the beta first dropped, I took Woodie for a test-run on a Twitch stream. What I found is that he can full on face-tank Bearger (which means he can do the same with Deerclops and Moose/Goose).

The other bosses are not as simple as literally holding F to win, but they are pretty close. Against Klaus, as long as you charge when he does the ice spell, you can just hold F to win. Against Ancient Guardian, Nightmare Werepig, and Shadow Pieces, the healing is so good that I can screw up tons of times and still walk away from the fight with most if not all my HP.

Twins of Terror, CC and Toadstool can't be tanked like the previous ones, but the regen is so strong that you are still able to make lots of preventable errors in the fight and walk away with a win.  

[splorange]

I like this patch overall but I'd like to see the Weremoose 3rd hit slam nerf reverted, I don't think it was strong enough to justify a nerf.

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Nice, just wanted to see how much we can compare notes.  When the beta first dropped, I took Woodie for a test-run on a Twitch stream. What I found is that he can full on face-tank Bearger (which means he can do the same with Deerclops and Moose/Goose)

I tried this during the bearger fight but it was only possible after healing in-between. Weaker bosses were tankable but that's also true of the default.

 

17 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Against Klaus, as long as you charge when he does the ice spell,

Didn't try him so I'll take your word for it.

19 minutes ago, Lardee said:

The other bosses are not as simple as literally holding F to win, but they are pretty close. Against Klaus, as long as you charge when he does the ice spell, you can just hold F to win. Against Ancient Guardian, Nightmare Werepig, and Shadow Pieces, the healing is so good that I can screw up tons of times and still walk away from the fight with most if not all my HP.

Twins of Terror, CC and Toadstool can't be tanked like the previous ones, but the regen is so strong that you are still able to make lots of preventable errors in the fight and walk away with a win.  

As for these guys minus a few I didn't try like shadow pieces and Toadstool I agree it was more on the generous side but I don't agree that it was so good that the value needed to be completely halved.

[Catteflyterpill]

4 hours ago, chirsg said:

Yes. Attack me instead of my argument. You can go after me because of how dramatic I can be, but my points make sense. I'm waiting for your constructed rebuttal, mate. 

The nerf made no sense and I basically proved it to you. You won't accept this because you'd rather be perceived as correct than concede and be happy. 

I think they don't want to respond to you because you're being a little condescending in your responses.

Obviously, there's different costs than just the material costs. Like the nerfs of being in Moose form, plus the stat drains. However, a Darksword being 5 nightmare fuel and a living log whereas a Moose Idol is just monster meat and some grass, obviously the Moose idol feels like an almost grossly cheap alternative especially with how accessible it can be in the early game. 

I don't play Woodie, I barely have a horse in this race, I just think the way you're arguing is kind of toxic and I don't think your points are 'fool-proof.' A lot of this comes down to how it feels when a person is playing, and something like that is very subjective. There can be points to consider from both sides. 

[doritosdamafia]

i have 3 sugestions to wormwoods skill tree

the first one is make wormwoods create a new type of saladmander that is based in stone fruit, he is a tank that have one hundred health (1000), fifteen damage (15) and 50% damage reduction, but have two abilits, one is a battle cry that gonna make all mob ( even bosses ) that have agro in wormwood, change the agro to go to the saladmander, the second abilit is when he reach a certin health porcentge %, he starts to sleep e gain 100% damage reduction to regain the lost health, but he make the agro go back to the wormwood during this time.

the second is to make th lightbug work as a living lantern, in other words, it still gonna have onli one day of life spam, but we can feed lightbulbs to the bug to increase the timer by one minute, been one lightbulb for more one minute of the lightbug duration.

and the last one is to change the first left abilit that lets you identify wich plant is the random seed, my ideia is that wormwoods now able to take the seed out of the floor if it's in the stage 0 or one to put that e another place, and gain the ability to make a bowl with he's hands to pick up water in the ocean and lakes, but one hand is equivalent of one watering can use.

sorry if my english is broken i am learnying how to wryte in english

[Fufuji]

There's still one thing I dont get: Why does Wolfgang Mighty Weapons skills grant extra planar damage for Brightshade Staff? Does he literally wield the staff so hard that the magical projectiles hit mobs more badly? Even Brightshade Helm doesnt buff Brightshade Staff's damage. 

[randiao]

happy jump

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by randiao

[dois raios]

I did not test weremoose in all fights, because I was playing instead of testing the character (but I do killed some bosses)

So, I have to say that woodie was good, not op, not ok, he was a GOOD character to play.

Now, I dont have the authority to say what has become of him (bc it has been not even a day since the hotfix lol), but at the worst scenario, I think he will be ok at the end.

thats it, thx for the changes and bug fixes.

[chirsg]

39 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

There's still one thing I dont get: Why does Wolfgang Mighty Weapons skills grant extra planar damage for Brightshade Staff? Does he literally wield the staff so hard that the magical projectiles hit mobs more badly? Even Brightshade Helm doesnt buff Brightshade Staff's damage. 

Cat's out of the bag. I didn't want to say it because I didn't want to take away from the Wolfgang main's fun, but yes. It's actually absurd how powerful he is with the staff.

Funny how beard never made a video about that and instead focused on Woodie's meme damage against memeguards. 

But yes, wolfgang's brightshade staff is completely absurd compared to anything pre-nerf moose could do.

Woodie could not stand against an army of bunnymen and his ink trio, while safe, did take a while. Any character with a lunar alignment and brightshade staff absolutely embarrasses Woodie, and to take away from the smash in the face of this?

The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. 

54 minutes ago, Catteflyterpill said:

I think they don't want to respond to you because you're being a little condescending in your responses.

Obviously, there's different costs than just the material costs. Like the nerfs of being in Moose form, plus the stat drains. However, a Darksword being 5 nightmare fuel and a living log whereas a Moose Idol is just monster meat and some grass, obviously the Moose idol feels like an almost grossly cheap alternative especially with how accessible it can be in the early game. 

I don't play Woodie, I barely have a horse in this race, I just think the way you're arguing is kind of toxic and I don't think your points are 'fool-proof.' A lot of this comes down to how it feels when a person is playing, and something like that is very subjective. There can be points to consider from both sides. 

I, and many others have acknowledged how much Woodie was tuned relative to the stage he was at the game. Max skill tree characters are way overtuned for the early game with the exception of Wilson. 

I proposed there should have been measures to account for this. I am a broken record when I say this but Woodie was appropriately powered for the endgame.

For the early game, yes. He was and still is in ways, overtuned for the early game.
He should have kept his old power level, but behind barriers or milestones in one world.

I haven't seen you here often and you admitting that you don't play Woodie says it all. I'm pretty damn loyal to the character and I have been transparent about Woodie's huge power right out the box with all perks unlocked.

Woodie's old full power let him function in the late game appropriately and most importantly, uniquely relative to the other characters with their endgame gear.

All way right. There was a VERY unique means to play Woodie's game and still be competitive with the endgame gear.

Now it's like nothing has changed. You do the spaghetti shimmy to optimize woodie's damage output and not have to bother progressing in his tree.

I'm tired of explaining why this isn't a healthy update. 

There are stats that dictate why weremoose got absolutely rorted, and simply put, as it stands, Woodie will just be a orange haired reskin of Wilson in the endgame. All the while delegating his best niches to Maxwell once more. 

 

Thanks for making me out to be the bad guy, all the while not having stakes in the Woodie rework to begin with. 

[IAmAFurrz]

4 hours ago, Dextops said:

Wolfgang’s skill tree doesn’t need any balance, nothing in it is op or anything near that 

I meant wolfgang as a whole. Tho i wont get into it since discussing about proper game design with some on this forums is kinda like talking to a wall