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[Unpopular Opinion] Current DST totally destroyed one of the best Don't Starve challenges


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You know, one of the best feature in Don't Starve I liked is being unable to grow food in winter and summer - you must preserve it from autumn or hunt for animals for winter and set Ice Flingos for summer. I remember I had my base near beefalos because of this exact reason.

But ANR added mushroom planters, which grow in caves at all times, RoT - stone fruits, which wither but can be stored permanently, RWYS - farm plants which neither stop their growth nor wither, Moon Quay - banana bushes which also grow in winter. And because of that, hunger is now never a problem, even for Wurt. 

And the thing is I have a dilemma between "If you don't want it - don't use it" and "It's a feature, why shouldn't I use it?". Sure, you can grow no food in winter if you want to, but you can either forget or play with other players, which disagree with you. 

I agree, experience is also important, but there are things that objectively make the game easier and don't depend on it like these ones. It doesn't mean that I'm an evil hater and despise everything new, it's just sad for me to see how DST is slowly drifting from a hunger-dependent survival to base building simulator.

What do you think?

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Starving was never a issue, more you play this game more you adapt. You got better at the game, while new players still die a lot to this day and they learn and adapt and they get the hang of things. With dst having lots of food, you most likely die from overextending on some combat situations, something dumb or bugs.  Not like winter was hard with food when pengulls spawn ice and the hound waves gave monster meat, could just have some meat farm when crops didn’t grow in winter 

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I mean Im super okay with the foods resources once more content equals more fun and stuff to mess around to get but at the same time I do get ur point about the dificulty being a thing less present and it is a pity indeed cuz when I started to play the game was exactly the goth terror vibes and the dificulty what attracted me, so

 

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Step back and ask yourself honestly, though... if you're experienced enough to know how to take full advantage of these options, would you be struggling in winter regardless? If you're able to brave the moon quay for its banana bushes, find the lunar island, or have enough living logs for constant mushroom planter usage, before day 21 comes... were you really going to struggle with food in winter at all, or were you just going to kill a handful of meat-dropping mobs?

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I get you, I like season restrictions as they come with their pros anyway, however it's nice to have solutions with properly designed or at least somewhat thoughtful methods, so the one for the Mushroom Planters I think is smart for what they do.

But for things like the Banana Bushes... I totally agree there's no reasoning behind this, it's just a consistency flaw I'm surprised isn't addressed after all the updates. It's not "unplayable" or what but damn, the small details, guys.

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26 minutes ago, Flarezen said:

Starving was never a issue, more you play this game more you adapt. You got better at the game, while new players still die a lot to this day and they learn and adapt and they get the hang of things. With dst having lots of food, you most likely die from overextending on some combat situations, something dumb or bugs.  Not like winter was hard with food when pengulls spawn ice and the hound waves gave monster meat, could just have some meat farm when crops didn’t grow in winter 

I'm totally fine with meaty food sources including even pig farms at all times, this post is mostly about fruits and veggies, which should be limited in harsh seasons imo.

19 minutes ago, sylvia wander o said:

Step back and ask yourself honestly, though... if you're experienced enough to know how to take full advantage of these options, would you be struggling in winter regardless? If you're able to brave the moon quay for its banana bushes, find the lunar island, or have enough living logs for constant mushroom planter usage, before day 21 comes... were you really going to struggle with food in winter at all, or were you just going to kill a handful of meat-dropping mobs?

you don't need either of these things, all you need to forget that hunger even exists is a stack of seeds (40 units, and it's totally possible to get them while exploring the world in the first autumn), a garden digamajig and (optionally) a bird cage. If you plant them in autumn, most of the crops will be potatoes and pumpkins, which regen a lot of hunger and have winter as one of their seasons.

Even if you will plant them in unsuitable season and the only things you will do is remove weeds, speak to them and plant them in family, they will be guaranteed to drop 1 fruit and 1 seed.

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That's nostalgia talking. It is true, there is more stuff that grows in winter now. Vegetables and meat were previously easily sustained by bunnymen farms. I think, having more diverse solutions with lots of options to chose from is much better.

Even, when I started out with DST, hunger was never a big problem past like the first 5 or so deaths. One of my most memorables sessions was surviving my first winter. We were playing with like 5 people. One guy ("Wolfgang") taught everybody, you could mine ice and make meatballs. Nobody in our group could fight anything. We died A LOT from freezing, from shadowcreatures, from spiders, from pigmen, from hounds and of course deerclops, but pretty much never from hunger.

Today, I can have a pigfarm up and running by day 11 and kill Bee Queen before Winter solo with my preferred characters. I'm usually drowning in food, as soon as I start a base somewhere. This is, because I can kill everything in my way now and also know all the most efficient recipes by heart.

The options you are mentioning are more like midgame things to me. I find them too time consuming to rush:

- Sailing to lunar island is nice and quick now. However stonefruit bushes require lot of attention and after harvesting one has to mine them aswell. I only use them for rocks later into the game. Bull Kelp are very good as a needed veggiefilller for pierogies in such, but I usually have enough cactus/carrots, that I never went out of my way to get them.

- Mushroom planters are an aweful waste of living logs in the early game and pretty niche later on. Of the top of my hat, I can't imagine, when, why and where I would ever want a bunch of mushrooms. Maybe to make hats for pigs? The lures aren't used up and if I wanted a lot of blue mushrooms, I would just pick them in blue mushforest in spring.

- I don't find the time for farming in the early game. It takes a while to get specific seed combos from the generic ones and I just have better things to do, then till, etc. However, they are of course really good, when time is invested into them. I much prefer the new farming to old bunny farms though.

 

If there is anything that has trivialized food for me, it is the Bundling Wrap.

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Well, you're not... wrong. But here's the thing.

Yes, crops and berries didn't grow in winter/summer. But the thing is that basically every other food source worked year-round. It wasn't a "challenge" because any other option you could pick would do the job year-round. It was a hinderance. And maybe if Veggies where good it would make sense for them to be limited. But no, the only crop really worth a damn in the DS era was Dragonfruit. 

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I agree that plants shouldn't grow during winter. I mean it's a world without logic, but c'mon.

However, the things you mentioned are all mid to late game stuff. By then, you shouldn't worry about food. You should be focusing on killing bosses and expanding your empire. Food is only really a problem for new players during the early game, and new players are not even gonna get close to a banana bush.

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I agree that banana bushes should not grow in winter and I too like some restrictions for the challenge. But as Wurt you can technically even survive of ice and stashed seeds alone in winter, so what makes the difference is really just knowing or not knowing about a feature.

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Wasn't there a mod that increased your hunger drain and/or body heat based on your activity? Unofficially that might be the best option while they wrap up the character reworks and the eventual endgame for the survivors.

 

That being said, i would wholeheartedly support a worldgen option similar to how they have it in Oxygen Not Included to have players get hungrier faster.

 

Alternatively, if they ever decide to freeze all plant growth in winter, this could be a good opportunity to set up warming patches in camps (and actually use the thermometer to gauge ambient temperature!) to create mini-environments for cold farming via scaled furnaces and starcaller stars.

 

Or, you know, you could just play more Wes.

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I'm gonna go deep on this... I think planning in general is underutilized. At least in intuitive ways, there's so so much to keep track on when it comes to lunar cycles for example, but you don't see the moon progress at all times and it always finds a way to get the drop on me no matter what. Not to mention it's all limited to a single few minutes of a night.

Seasons in comparison are very blatant in their appearance, approach and as an "event" they also last significantly longer. And the idea of having to stock up food or plan ahead for harsh times in other ways always intrigued me. Specifically with food; lot more so than just establishing getting the one hat which nullifies the straight-up existence-nullifier.

I digress. The idea of seasons forcing you to change game approach seems like a lost art, is all. So say you hoard food, it's like people say, there is no real shortage of other food sources, but that's the point isn't it? No growing means hunting, in theory at least. I like that, it's not only a change in pace, but it's a choice for early game now. So, not only can you really do long-term planning, it might change as you reveal more of the map you explore. It's potentially a lot more rewarding than the events like lunar cycles as well; since they really are a deadline of getting a single specific thing in time for one specific event, if it fails in that tiny window that's it; while hunger management is potentially more flexible- you can make attempts to adapt mid-planning since the failure state is a slow burn. Again, all in theory at least... Now... food is such an extreme non-issue that I don't even fancy growing veggies even in mild seasons. But, I think there would have been something to the idea of it. Sadly execution of all of that would entail something quite drastic at this point.

And while desperately scavenging for food is engaging the first seasons, it's also difficult to justify babysitting numbers once a year has passed and you just want to kill some bosses or something in peace without having to stress about sudden death mid-fights. Or when you try to relax in your base building game.
 
I feel like there is some obtuse patchwork that has been done there. Where the game wants to chill and build bases and do bosses, lots of intense focus. Yet hunger just never stops biting at you, working against it. So to alleviate some time wasted on gathering food -which due to harsh spoiling is never ending- well, food is now just appearing up the wazoo no matter where you go. But in practice it has just made the game much too fiddely for my taste. They aren't exactly complimentary.

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Keep in mind that the following is my observation as a mostly solo player (TLDR in the end), and from my experience, playing with multiple people who are already experienced in the game easily eliminates all food problems, even without utilizing the QoL additions the OP mentioned.

Most people pointed fingers at pre-rework Wolfgang for having a massive hunger drain while mighty, but in my opinion this made Wolfgang the only character that had to actively think about an access to a reliable food source. I'm not saying reliable food was hard to access while playing pre-rework Wolfgang but after the second year, you basically had to either dedicate half a season for setting up meat farms+mass cooking, or switch to another character. Or give up a couple of your early game objectives for the sake of convenience, which is however applicable to all characters. That's one aspect of the rework I'm still bitter about, and would like to see it return in some form not just for Wolfgang but for all the other characters as well.

Other than the lack of a significant mechahic that has an effect on the hunger drain, the lack of challenge surrounding food comes from the fact that everything the player needs is already compensated by playing the game actively, and everything else is already lying on the floor. The only noticable exception I can think of is blooming Wormwood, and since he already saves up on food stock thanks to food having no effect on his healing, this becomes obselete unless you are constantly playing as a fully blooming Wormwood.

So my TLDR would be to suggest adding multiple mechanics that directly interact with the hunger drain, but I guess the playerbase must first warm up to the idea that having a half-empty fridge is not necessarily a bad thing, and that the "annoyances" of hunger-related mechanics can provide a more engaging gaming experience.

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Personally I have more issue with Bundling Wrap, for this kind of thing. You can bundle literally hundreds of foods indefinitely by using Bundling Wrap with no penalty.

It's true you can get a lot of resources that can be grown or used all year-round, but in order to access most of those resources you have to earn them; normal players won't understand the importance of Bull Kelps, gather enough rot/manure for multiple harvests, or raid Moon Quay Island and wait for Banana Bushes to spawn in bulk. Most don't have the aptitude to get a Pinchin' Winch, get a Knobbly Tree Nut, and cultivate an Above-Average Tree for Figs either.

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11 minutes ago, Owlrust said:

Personally I have more issue with Bundling Wrap, for this kind of thing. You can bundle literally hundreds of foods indefinitely by using Bundling Wrap with no penalty.

It's true you can get a lot of resources that can be grown or used all year-round, but in order to access most of those resources you have to earn them; normal players won't understand the importance of Bull Kelps, gather enough rot/manure for multiple harvests, or raid Moon Quay Island and wait for Banana Bushes to spawn in bulk. Most don't have the aptitude to get a Pinchin' Winch, get a Knobbly Tree Nut, and cultivate an Above-Average Tree for Figs either.

You have to kill klaus or bee queen for the bundling wrap unlike gift wraps where its given off the bat

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4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

outside of "hunger is not an issue" can we agree that makes no sense that certain plants grow in winter like banana bushes or figs? it breaks the inmersion and the internal coherence of the game

There are deserts next to swamps, this is THE type of game where you should think meme rules apply.

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Food is abundant in dst even without plants but that doesn't change the fact that I do feel like farms, bananas and such should probably go back to not growing in winter as stated it doesn't effect the average player therefore the change wouldn't make the game harder but at the same time it would make winter feel more special. I think it'd be interesting if the seasons had a bigger impact on how we survive with food specifically. (personally I think it'd be interesting if mob respawns, hunts, and various meat sources were diminished in winter as well but I realize if I went through with such a idea there'd be enough backlash to send me through time.:lol:)

 

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49 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Food is abundant in dst even without plants but that doesn't change the fact that I do feel like farms, bananas and such should probably go back to not growing in winter as stated it doesn't effect the average player therefore the change wouldn't make the game harder but at the same time it would make winter feel more special. I think it'd be interesting if the seasons had a bigger impact on how we survive with food specifically. (personally I think it'd be interesting if mob respawns, hunts, and various meat sources were diminished in winter as well but I realize if I went through with such a idea there'd be enough backlash to send me through time.:lol:)

 

Don’t merms take a longer time to respawn during winter?

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I actually am a huge advocate for the new farming system, it's improved by miles from what the old system was and, you can only grow crops in winter efficiently if you have put in the work beforehand to mass the seeds you need that are in season- still requiring forethought. Where I agree with OP is the topic of stone fruits...

They can fully make gardening obsolete especially on a massive server, and especially for Wurt. It's too good on it's own giving the same stats as a carrot, being an epic filler for meatballs, AND counts as one WHOLE veg point?? Honestly, what is the point of putting out so much labor into the joys of gardening when you have a totally sustainable source of rock (valuable at all levels of the game) with the convenient byproduct of heaps of food? It'd be one thing if they were fixed to the lunar island the way cacti and reeds are, but they're totally transplantable too! I think it might be an improvement to the rewards system of the game if the OG stone bushes were immovable from lunar but you could still mine the stone fruit with a chance of getting a starter sapling. That way you don't have all your foods and rock issues immediately met before your first winter, but can still grow a transplanted hoard at your own base as you grow and diligently mine.

It's because of things like stone fruit that makes the new gardening system look like trash to anyone who's not Warly or really wanting to play farmer sim. Why expend so much effort on this time sucking process when raiding lunar early for stone fruit, glass cutters, etc. is so much more efficient?

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33 minutes ago, Flarezen said:

Don’t merms take a longer time to respawn during winter?

No this is a myth they take the same amount of time just normal merms don't leave their homes but you can get them to come out during winter by lighting their homes on fire then putting it out.

12 minutes ago, dzzydzzy said:

I actually am a huge advocate for the new farming system, it's improved by miles from what the old system was and, you can only grow crops in winter efficiently if you have put in the work beforehand to mass the seeds you need that are in season- still requiring forethought. Where I agree with OP is the topic of stone fruits...

They can fully make gardening obsolete especially on a massive server, and especially for Wurt. It's too good on it's own giving the same stats as a carrot, being an epic filler for meatballs, AND counts as one WHOLE veg point?? Honestly, what is the point of putting out so much labor into the joys of gardening when you have a totally sustainable source of rock (valuable at all levels of the game) with the convenient byproduct of heaps of food? It'd be one thing if they were fixed to the lunar island the way cacti and reeds are, but they're totally transplantable too! I think it might be an improvement to the rewards system of the game if the OG stone bushes were immovable from lunar but you could still mine the stone fruit with a chance of getting a starter sapling. That way you don't have all your foods and rock issues immediately met before your first winter, but can still grow a transplanted hoard at your own base as you grow and diligently mine.

It's because of things like stone fruit that makes the new gardening system look like trash to anyone who's not Warly or really wanting to play farmer sim. Why expend so much effort on this time sucking process when raiding lunar early for stone fruit, glass cutters, etc. is so much more efficient?

This would be a bad idea not only would it just make stone fruit not worth bothering with but even as Wurt you'd just focus on kelp since it alone already handles your hunger and sanity needs it's part of the reason the crockpot feels useless as Wurt and farming isn't really worth it for her despite her diet she's not really encouraged to interact with various fruit and veg sources since food isn't balanced well even in the new farming system potato is realistically the only crop you ever need to care about having in farming as it covers hp and sanity. Even without stone fruit meat already makes the farming system look bad if you think about it meat without ever using crops has the highest hp, hunger, and sanity dishes meanwhile most crops have so little value in a crockpot that they're often better off eaten alone but nothing can really make farming feel more valuable at this point outside of rebalancing dishes and making better crop dishes. 

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