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Moderation Of Forums and Free Thinking


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It starts to be necessary.

Forum become more and more aggressive day by day. There are few fellas that is quite enjoying game statement right now and they are harassing every opinion that don't fit on their.

I do not believe any opinion is stupid. Even worst opinion or suggestion can make difference and give inspiration. You can disagree or share why it's not possible to be in game but you should not kill their ideas. Most of those ideas that shared is shared by people that think it's gonna be cool, not by game devs. Same as the edgy crowd in forum. This behavior only kills creativity and new player's interest. They have interest in game and want to make it better, so they share.

And about repetitive posts; You might be really bored from seeing same post again and again. Same topics shared by same person is a problem about person, but same topic with different persons shows that something is not right for a group of people.

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We need an official description for "being a prick" in the community guidelines. Don't get me wrong, the DST community is uncomparably nice even when some people decide to behave in toxic ways, but I do feel the same about people "harassing every opinion that don't fit on their". I would even support heated arguments as long as both sides exchange constructive criticism with each other, but I do think trying to discourage others from sharing their opinions is a problem.

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Nothing kills interest in a forum quite like over-moderation... people need to fight their own battle and develop a tough skin, if it gets abit outta hand eg straight up throwing abuse at someone and not their idea or suggestion. Yeah they should be flagged ofc

However if someone has a dumb idea, you should 100% be allowed to call that idea dumb as ****, as long as the focus is on the persons idea or suggestion.

I got flagged by Joe for calling myself a genius and the rest of the forums idiots... I mean thats fair enough lol but if i get flagged for pointing out a dumb suggestion ill be proper mad 

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If you feel that something is breaking the community guidelines, report it. The report link is in the top right corner of every post. 

However, I don't feel that somebody always disagreeing with you is a violation of community guidelines. And I am not going to force everybody to get along. 

Overmoderation is bad - it doesn't help conversation and doesn't help people be less crappy to each other. 

Calling somebody else's idea stupid is bad. It doesn't help the conversation and the aggressive tone only helps spiral a conversation away from being productive. 

And of course @Gashzer, saying somebody has a dumb suggestion might merit a warning. If you can't reply politely, don't reply. 

These are forums for a video game company and their customers and fans to interact with each other and provide feedback. Every player is entitled to that until they prove otherwise. 

If you don't like somebody or their suggestions and posts, put them on your ignore list. We want to see the feedback, regardless of whether others like the suggestions or not. 

That being said - I am currently evaluating our longstanding forum guidelines, because it does seem like it's hard for people to understand what "Don't be a jerk" means lately. 

It shouldn't be hard to understand how to be polite to others. 

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I genuinely can't remember more than 1 or 2 posts recently where someone called someone else's opinion stupid, disagreeing with others is not shutting their opinions down, the entire point of the forums is to share your thoughts which includes counterarguments, nobody is attacking you at a personal level for not agreeing with your idea

I know emotions are hard to convey over text which makes every single post sound passive-aggressive but once you learn that not everyone on the internet has a personal vendetta against you you tolerate these places a lot more easily

tl;dr just don't post your opinion on an internet forum if you can't stand being disagreed with

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7 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I genuinely can't remember more than 1 or 2 posts recently where someone called someone else's opinion stupid, disagreeing with others is not shutting their opinions down, the entire point of the forums is to share your thoughts which includes counterarguments, nobody is attacking you at a personal level for not agreeing with your idea

I know emotions are hard to convey over text which makes every single post sound passive-aggressive but once you learn that not everyone on the internet has a personal vendetta against you you tolerate these places a lot more easily

tl;dr just don't post your opinion on an internet forum if you can't stand being disagreed with

I mostly agree with you. Like I said, even worst opinions' topics have few creative replies in it. I see this even in my suggestion posts. They disagree with my opinion and they share a better opinion or the reason of their disagree. But I saw few person that turns that into kind of shame series, not much as other forums but it's more than before for Klei forums. I'm kinda old, so I don't care bad responses but I'm sure some people is definetly be annoyed. We both know younger bloods have a huge interest in DST, specially will stay with game more if we be good to them.

This post was for people more than moderators to be honest. I noticed most of people gives

22 minutes ago, JoeW said:

If you don't like somebody or their suggestions and posts, put them on your ignore list. We want to see the feedback, regardless of whether others like the suggestions or not. 

This must be pinned to top of all posts lol.

 

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5 hours ago, Karitha said:

There are few fellas that is quite enjoying game statement right now and they are harassing every opinion that don't fit on their.

Realistically, I can't help but feel like this post is targeted towards/made as a result of those who have been voicing their opinion on the wickerbottom books & the moon quay betas, and I can't help but feel as if it's a little weird and unfair.

It feels like (this is wording shouldn't be so unsure, more like, it Has been like this) for years people who voiced their positive opinion of the standing of content, mostly new, has been outright insulted on the forums, and now that positive opinion of new content is becoming more popular, a handful of those who actively decry the game for x or y reason are beginning to voice how unfair it is.

I don't understand it. Realistically, I can't think of nearly any instances in the past two betas that are in my memory right now where someone on the side of voicing positivity over new content has been terribly rude to others, however I can absolutely think of instances in which someone on the other side of the coin did so in a very unfortunate way, I feel the need to name names, but I don't think that's allowed.

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39 minutes ago, JoeW said:

If you feel that something is breaking the community guidelines, report it. The report link is in the top right corner of every post. 

However, I don't feel that somebody always disagreeing with you is a violation of community guidelines. And I am not going to force everybody to get along. 

Overmoderation is bad - it doesn't help conversation and doesn't help people be less crappy to each other. 

Calling somebody else's idea stupid is bad. It doesn't help the conversation and the aggressive tone only helps spiral a conversation away from being productive. 

And of course @Gashzer, saying somebody has a dumb suggestion might merit a warning. If you can't reply politely, don't reply. 

These are forums for a video game company and their customers and fans to interact with each other and provide feedback. Every player is entitled to that until they prove otherwise. 

If you don't like somebody or their suggestions and posts, put them on your ignore list. We want to see the feedback, regardless of whether others like the suggestions or not. 

That being said - I am currently evaluating our longstanding forum guidelines, because it does seem like it's hard for people to understand what "Don't be a jerk" means lately. 

It shouldn't be hard to understand how to be polite to others. 

Dunno... this response seems kinda dumb Joe not gonna lie............ :wilson_ecstatic:

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5 hours ago, mr. brj said:

We need an official description for "being a prick" in the community guidelines. Don't get me wrong, the DST community is uncomparably nice even when some people decide to behave in toxic ways, but I do feel the same about people "harassing every opinion that don't fit on their". I would even support heated arguments as long as both sides exchange constructive criticism with each other, but I do think trying to discourage others from sharing their opinions is a problem.

Some people just say stuff that feels like  "your idea is stoopid, you gonna destroy MY fun".... and that's their only argument. Sad.

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2 minutes ago, Notecja said:

Some people just say stuff that feels like  "your idea is stoopid, you gonna destroy MY fun".... and that's their only argument. Sad.

Honestly in all my years of playing video games I’ve seen some people suggest some really stupid ideas across several game forums, but that’s life and EVERYONE is entitled to have a stupid idea every now and then. I am 95% sure every idea I can come up with is going to be stupid.

Awhile back ago (sometime shortly after Tencent owned majority Shares into Klei) I requested some DC/Marvel comics skins such as: Harley Quinn’s Mallet as a Hammer Skin, I also showed evidence of a Crowbar Skin already existing for the game so it wouldn’t had been “too far” out of place, NOW there’s Banana Hats, and Banana Boomerangs but still no Comically Oversized Harley Mallet.

Because when I suggested it, it got shutdown calling the suggestion the stupidest thing most the forum has ever heard of. 

Tencent has shares into Fortnite, Rocket League, Fall Guys, Gears of War (insert any game with the Epic Games logo here) so it wasn’t unrealistic to ask for such skins and personally I still hope someday Klei does a DC/Marvel Crossover skin collection- because those are popular, and I can confess to downloading entire games that I had no interest at all in ever playing as soon as I heard or saw that my favorite Tv show/comic book characters would be crossing over into the game.

Was my idea stupid? Probably.. but I don’t really care what anyones opinion about me or my ideas are, all I want to be is one voice amongst many that shares his ideas & suggestions in hopes to better the development of his favorite game franchise.

As of right now I haven’t been liking the direction DST has been going in, moving further and further away from DS & it’s expansions, making things easier to craft, making armor, weapons, mounts etc easier to get, making resources renew after being destroyed or having crops grow in Winter- all of it has significantly lessened my survival playstyle with the game.

And perhaps what is most saddening to me is that when Klei finally does add some survival content (like Wavey Jones or Moon Quay Curse) they get complained about and Nerfed to be a minor annoyance at best.

Meanwhile- the other updates targeted for players that Are NOT me: such as epic multi stage boss fights- those aren’t being Nerfed into feeling unenjoyable to the camp of players who enjoy it.

Now to be fair: Boss fights are mostly optional things you have to summon, so they’re allowed to be hard and challenging, where as any world survival content Klei can possibly add will just make everyone who can’t handle it suffer through it.

I would herby like to suggest “Progression Locks” Aka- maybe add a distant island out in the water that is extremely hot & requires Scalemail or some other fireproof protection to travel on this island- here the content would be skill locked, players who have no business being here won’t be able to survive stepping foot on the island for too long- while players who want some new harsher weather seasons, enemy mob behaviors, survival content etc.. can build the required protective gear to traverse this new and dangerous survival content.

It allows Survival Content to become just as OPTIONAL as those epic multi stage boss encounters, and hopefully provides a middle ground for people who want new survival content, and for people who whine about it being to hard so they get it Nerfed to the point it’s mostly forgettable.

Bring back the Sanity Obilisks that require raising and lowering one’s sanity to travel through the area, port over Hamlets poison gas biomes and gas masks.. do SOMETHING.. 

is my idea stupid? And will most people call it stupid? Probably… but that’s exactly my point- I’m just one guy trying to find a middle ground to still have and enjoy the type of content I bought DS and it’s expansions for, without having that content interfere with people who aren’t prepared for it. And therefore when it gets added to the game- they complain a lot till it gets Nerfed into almost non-existence.

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I feel like it's weird that the argument that the only people who have issues with how some have been acting on both sides of the debate keeps getting excused with ah people only take issue because their opinion is different despite disagreements always being a thing on these forums I know I personally got annoyed with how common the idea on of mocking peoples stances on the debate had become I'm down to debate on most things and have even changed my perspective on fair amount of them.

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2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I would herby like to suggest “Progression Locks” Aka- maybe add a distant island out in the water that is extremely hot & requires Scalemail or some other fireproof protection to travel on this island- here the content would be skill locked, players who have no business being here won’t be able to survive stepping foot on the island for too long- while players who want some new harsher weather seasons, enemy mob behaviors, survival content etc.. can build the required protective gear to traverse this new and dangerous survival content.

It allows Survival Content to become just as OPTIONAL as those epic multi stage boss encounters, and hopefully provides a middle ground for people who want new survival content, and for people who whine about it being to hard so they get it Nerfed to the point it’s mostly forgettable.

Bring back the Sanity Obilisks that require raising and lowering one’s sanity to travel through the area, port over Hamlets poison gas biomes and gas masks.. do SOMETHING.. 

is my idea stupid? And will most people call it stupid? Probably… but that’s exactly my point- I’m just one guy trying to find a middle ground to still have and enjoy the type of content I bought DS and it’s expansions for, without having that content interfere with people who aren’t prepared for it. And therefore when it gets added to the game- they complain a lot till it gets Nerfed into almost non-existence.

This is a amazing idea!

I'm also very found of the survival and basebuild play styles and I would LOVE to see them implement it!

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9 hours ago, Karitha said:

The forums become more and more aggressive day by day. There are few fellas that are enjoying the game state right now and harassing every opinion that doesn't fit on there.

Another reason why I hate most forumites (I don't hate them they just get aggressive and the aggressiveness against opinions gets over the tops annoying, I know they're not trying to attack you at a personal level, but still, forumites get wayyyyyy too aggressive these days)

From a female's perspective, I get aggressive too, as my emotions go off the charts

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Keep in mind almost anyone can have an account here, so you may be butting heads with 14 year-old children that don't watch what they say.

As a rule, if someone is disrespectful to you either call it out respectfully or ignore them. Don't sink to their level and try to get the last word, it never works and no one will be able to tell who the child is, that applies not just to the forums but any aspect of life as well.

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Just wanted to have a few words on this because I might have been a cause of this discussion and there are things I wish to clarify as for why I've hidden my previous suggestion with a bit of nuance.

First of it's not about unexisting personal attacks that I hid it, objectively I'm not aware of anyone active who doesn't have that minimum of decency to be straight up bad enough for it to get intoxicating here, I've went trough terrible game communities, attempt of cancel culture and people so wrong I had have no idea they'd exist before, so it's not being called boring or having someone who'd disagree with a game opinion that'd change me.

However, what did make me hid this topic is no more than a simple realisation that I'm done things wrong. I've, for a very long time, been constructing my suggestions with a lot of precautions, contextualised my ideas from running tests where I do apply them and there's a retrospective work behind too to make sure I really consider it being alright wherever it's needed. While that probably sound nice to put the effort, in reality that has been annoying for everyone regardless of their point, me included, and I consider the time put behind it is just not worth it after all since nothing would changes regardless of if I'd do it or not. I'm sure it's too much of a Sleepytime Story for anyone to read because of the pointless setup I'm exclusively making to who'd be mad about a single aspect and yet I happen to wonder if they understood properly where I'm looking to take them because I'm only so confused of the feedback and how it affect them.
I put that process on when I start something, when I want to give my opinion onto someone else suggestion when it takes more than acknowledging with reactions, and I would love to discuss on what I wrote if someone got stuff to say but its rarely pertinent to keep it going without repeating each others, so well I'll stop trying, at least that way but then I don't want to do one line talk when I'm here to show something, that's just not me.

I'd have things to say more globally but my own case as for how debates evolved on the forums, but with so many different views on how to even behave on here it's not me who's gonna convince anyone tonight. But stepping up by having less of a stale attitude toward people that want to expose something that make them happy is available to everyone, and it's far from being about what I'm concerned with only that single topic I wish wasn't contributing to the tendency, I do read a lot of topics of different views and I wish some of my friends and people I generally agree with could chill on the low blows like anyone else.

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17 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

looooong snip

Hi mike, I feel like this post is the best place to say that if I do seem like I don't like your ideas/ survival content etc... I do like them and survival content, and I'm all for more, I wish there was more forced in stuff onto the player, even something as simple as an ocean perpetual wave attack mob, more aggressive random ocean mods (like the rockjaw, just don't make them have random attack patterns please) I do enjoy bosses too though, I might just be an odd one though>
Oh and to be honest, the progression lock idea is probably the closest thing to having a middle ground that there would ever be, maybe making that fire island also have larger radius of effect during summer? I don't know, but that idea just sounds great, sorry for coming off as... you know, someone who hates survival content possibly? If you even thought that of me lmao.

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As others stated, "more/better moderation" more-often-than-not is a stand-in for free expression suppression, usually for ideological purpose (poorly constructed ideologies go for censorship instead of debates). Repeated disagreement is not "harassment" if the one disagreeing has objectively better arguments and the one being disagreed upon has a constant poor judgement personal history and/or steady stream of bad ideas, backed by bad hypotheses & conclusions. I for one, as a "banter enthusiast" (for humor), have rarely seen on these forums blatant strong language or clear "stalking & bashing" directed towards forumers, aside ad hominems (from recent times, comes to mind how poor Mike was subject of that; but he also is pretty stubborn in his faulty convictions plus off-topics - not warranting such sometimes-harsh responses to the posts he makes, but he could evade mentioned behaviors from critics by taking a step back and self-reflecting). If anything, KLei forums are quite tamed without devolving into current social media's imposed fake niceness, even if being permeated by "protected opinions" bias here-and-there. "More moderation" bringing excess censorship - once more, as stated by others above - will solely drive visitors away. People en large should judge the expressed ideas and not stigmatize people behind them as rule-of-thumb; likewise should use the Messages function (personal messages) provided by website if they do develop certain grudges (don't do that, is not mentally & morally healthy) or aren't clear about other parties' intentions. Don't assume, inquire. And if all interpersonal communications fail, for various reasons, again: hover-over forumer's avatar > Ignore User.

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I feel like saying moderation can enroach on free speech and being a jerk is bad are pretty objectively obvious things to say. I think the issue is more so people slipping into teeth gnashing with moderate/no provocation. This is a forum for a game I really like. I don't want to get on here and see comments starting to rip each other apart. And while I have a very dry sense of humor and like sarcasm, I think it's important to realize that we don't all know each other. I think some more self awareness in how we speak to others and convey our ideas would help a lot. If it takes a warning - something that doesn't prevent a forum user from posting/commenting/reacting, but lets them know that their behavior is hurtful or disruptive I think that's fine. I wouldn't mind if more people read through their comments again and took note that it can often come off venomous. 

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instead of wasting our time having these threads, why don't you just ignore people?

Also what harassment is happening? when a thread gets heated, it stays inside the thread it doesn't leave it often. Harassment would be someone constantly messaging you privately, or chasing your in different threads, on different sites
But even that is being generous because in every single instance you are a click away from making them unable to target you on that website (or just shut off your computer) and you can find solace in the fact that they are wasting their time

17 hours ago, Owlrust said:

Keep in mind almost anyone can have an account here, so you may be butting heads with 14 year-old children that don't watch what they say.

Grow up.

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Also there seems to be some sort of echo chamber on the forums, leading to some weird form of extremism. How many times do you need to say the same thing but slightly to the side before it turns onto some weird statement that has nothing to do with the truth anymore?

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6 hours ago, Seero said:

wasting our time

Aren't we all? Ask any two people what "wasting their time" means to them and I'm sure you'll get different answers. Many people would consider playing video games to be a waste of time, others like yourself would consider posting these threads to be. Think about what you mean when you say "wasting your time" as it's very personal and therefore meaningless when imposed onto others. What matters is you feel your time is well spend, after all we all die one day.

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1 hour ago, hhh2 said:

Aren't we all? Ask any two people what "wasting their time" means to them and I'm sure you'll get different answers. Many people would consider playing video games to be a waste of time, others like yourself would consider posting these threads to be. Think about what you mean when you say "wasting your time" as it's very personal and therefore meaningless when imposed onto others. What matters is you feel your time is well spend, after all we all die one day.

no thanks

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If you feel upset about discussion when no one violates the rules, you should take a break. Circle jerk discussions come a go, just like some people. You don't need an audience backing you up everytime or reply to every "critism" coming your way. Pic related.

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