[Poll] On the Wolfgang Character Refresh, Postmortem

[GetNerfedOn]

Wolf gland

[HowlVoid]

Rework was meh, rather uneventful, but I guess it's practical?

I can say for certain I won't be playing Wolfgang going forward. Not because I'm bitter due to the loss in speed, but because Wolfgang has continued to be a rather bland character. 

I was hoping the refresh would be more in line with Wigfrids. Maybe a few nerfs, sure, but also given something more unique in return. Refresh was mostly one sided (aka only nerfs, nothing unique).

[Notecja]

Wicker and WX deserve their own mechanics in rework. No meters please.

[Rafi.]

2 minutes ago, Notecja said:

Wicker and WX deserve their own mechanics in rework. No meters please.

The Overcharged meter always existed, stop denying the truth.

[HowlVoid]

31 minutes ago, Notecja said:

Wicker and WX deserve their own mechanics in rework. No meters please.

Overcharged meter is a given at this point. It would be a very useful indicator of how much longer you have until you need to recharge again. 

I wouldn't be apposed to the team getting a little more creative with it. Maybe his eyes turning white and begin to flicker when low. His eyes changing color from white, to yellow, then red, and finally black when no longer over charged. A battery icon similar to a phones on his right buttcheek. Maybe even a voltage counter that ticks down similar to chibi-robos. Would probably be more fun for the fans and developers alike. 

 

Wicker with a book meter on the other hand... Please no...

[Sir Noel]

I voted "no strong feelings". I think Klei focused too much on balancing Wolfgang rather than actually reworking his main forms/perks. This update mostly focused on ways to build/maintain his mighty meter, and while I think these changes are good, that's pretty much it for Wolfgang. His forms are still mostly the same with a few nerfs here and there. Dumbbells are still a bit iffy and could definitely use some number changes.

The rest of his perks remind me of Walter; they are nice in certain situations, but they don't add to/change his playstyle in any meaningful way. Unless his playstyle is literally just "the solo character", which this update heavily gears towards.

[Mike23Ua]

I think he is a better character now, his might requires effort and I like that, he also had the deepest lore dating way back so that’s awesome too, I’m not too happy that he didn’t get more to do while “Mighty” You got a character who can clearly effortlessly lift heavy items (just not too ridiculously heavy like a baby elephant) And the animations from his short, vignettes and current loading screen main menus showing him lifting different items from different positions (snug in arms, one hand potato sack, over head with both hands)

But yet in actual gameplay the big guy with all the muscle still has to drop his backpack and carry things around on his back.

Rework is Meh, similar to Wigfrids.. both I felt missed the mark- nothing future QoLs can’t fix.. but: Winona, Wurt, Wigfrid, Wolfgang all could use some touch ups.

[Cassielu]

WX is definitely not as powerful as Wolf and Wicker, it needs a Woodie-type buff, give this iron git some really useful abilities, not a nerf

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

WX is definitely not as powerful as Wolf and Wicker, it needs a Woodie-type buff, give this iron git some really useful abilities, not a nerf

i prefer a woodie kind of refresh but nerfing that huge stats that makes him safe to the point of not being interesting

just my opinion

[Astraia]

Don't make new meters, please Klei I'M LITERALLY BEGGING YOU!

[HowlVoid]

19 minutes ago, NightfallsCurse said:

Don't make new meters, please Klei I'M LITERALLY BEGGING YOU!

Wx-78 has a "missing empathy" meter, you have to kill things to fill it. Killing your friends instantly sets the meter to full.

If the meter drains completely Wx-78 kills themselves. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

Feels like all the people that had good points and ideas for changes are already burnt out from posting. Hopefully there is someone at Klei that digs through the forums.

Likes- The mighty meter somewhat, consistent 2x damage is nice QoL. 

Pro-Being at 70 mighty and giving enough pumps to reach 77-80 mighty for short kills is fun

Con- In order to maintain near 70-75 mighty you must constantly stop to pump, there is no alternative to pumping. There is also no way to slow the drain aside from a full belly which is also a minimal slow. This means in order to actually have time in mighty form one must always reach 100 mighty first for maximum uninterrupted time there is no alternative.

Dislikes- The dumbbells and gym are the only way to interact with the meter pretty one dimensional and feels disruptive to gameplay instead of adding on. Combat with dumbbells is widely ineffective and inefficient for gaining and maintaining mighty. A max 200 hunger and a requirement of at least 150 hunger to extend mighty time makes alot of crockpot dishes slightly wasteful so wolf eats alot of filler (still).

Mixed- rowing harder feels underwhelming, carrying big items feels extremely weak and largely outclassed by beefalo,increased sanity drain is still not really a hard hitting downside but feels more impactful since tam can't increase sanity at dark anymore so caves got more interesting but in general gameplay that just means wolf goes insane a day or two sooner, the piggy back and marble armor changes feel ok..... just ok.  Overall all of his "flavor" perks just don't really feel impactful.  Rowing and carrying just need more "oomph" but the piggyback and marble feel different in that aspect it's hard to explain.

Extra slots are nice but the slower run speed wasn't really noticable before with it, plus prerework wolf could run slightly faster with it. On top of even using the piggy back without drawbacks means being mighty which means getting to 100 just for a unstaggered walking session.

Marble armor had a specialized purpose "tanking" now wolf pretty much uses it as his regular everyday armor instead since there is no incentive not to use it over any other body armor type since it has higher protection and durability but that's it, it somewhat makes up for his -100 hp nerf but leaves no room for alternative strategy like the speed did. Instead it's either tank like you used to do with marble armor or kite normally like everyone else with 95% protection.

Spoiler

I also know another character that can tank even better and kite normally without needing marble armor, If I really wanted to play like that.

Overall new wolf still feels one dimensional, he feels underwhelming in his new flavor abilities, the workout mechanic feels tedious because it is incentivized too much, dumbbell combat and tossing are inefficient and ineffective are mostly good for just killing koalas/goats. (Best use is to have a laugh throwing it at everything), mighty being a separate entity from hunger is good but aren't working together well in current practice (probably just needs number changes), consistent 2x damage is just a QoL change. Lots of tweaks probably coming but overall new wolf still feels uninspiring, he doesn't feel refreshed, you'll spend time trying to save time or just feeling like a waste of time, he feels more anchored until he gets the gembell then he gets boring since there isn't much to really put that strength to atleast not anything that feels game changing or unique that he didn't already do.

 

Wx charge meter be like:

[SonicDen220]

The best part of the rework is the constant x2 damage, as it allows him to use tentacle spikes and shield of terror and always hit the 100 damage breakpoint. Then there's marble armor without penalty, which is an interesting case because they increased his sanity drain, so you're even less encouraged to use night armor for the same protection. And piggybacks too.

But basically that's it, those are the most impactful perks. Anything else is mostly for flavor. He lost the speed, but didn't gain a whole lot in return.

And I never liked dumbbells because of the rock cost of all things. :P

[Cloakingsumo198]

If the other two also get this kind of treatment it would be unfortunate, I don't think any of the characters come off as problematic since this is a pve game but some of their existences make me question why other characters couldn't be more.  The ones not afraid to break the mold and be experimental turn out to be the most fun.

[maradyne]

what are buttons

 

 

But...yea.
Just hoping the next reworks are something more mechanically appealing.

[Wurtstool]

Really felt like this was a weak refresh compared to the other ones Klei churned out. For one I love how they made him more consistent in damage and fleshed out his capabilities beyond combat when mighty. But I think that the process to manage mightiness really hurts the DST gameplay loop and just feels like a break in pacing, I don't get why he has to stand still and exercise to gain mightiness when doing menial tasks like chopping a tree or fighting a enemy would in common sense also be counted as exercise. As for future refreshes, I really hope Klei won't force in gimmicks that are far removed from the general gameplay just to make them "stand out" or "new". Lore wise, still 10/10

[Scrimbles]

I'm not satisfied with the refresh because it did nothing for me, as a person whose least played character is Wolfgang, to actually want to PLAY Wolfgang.

Are Wolfgang mains satisfied? It seems pretty split, but I support the decision to remove the speed boost, since it was unintended and gave him too much of a cheap advantage for no real downside (for an experienced player, atleast).

All I see are tedious and boring "mini games" (not that weight lifting is much of a mini game), and that's really about it. Sure you can chuck the weights, but it doesn't seem like a good idea unless you want some free bird/rabbit morsels.

 

No work seems to have been done on expanding Wolfgang's theme from a gameplay mechanic standpoint. You can carry heavy things a bit faster which is rarely, if ever important, he doesn't really even row faster due to an issue that Toroic pointed out, and that only affects players who see a reason to sail... and thats basically it.

 

If you are going to play Wolfgang, you are playing him for his giant damage boost or personality/theme. And none of that has changed at all with his refresh.

[Frashaw27]

I do feel like this rework was always a bit of a doomed ship from the offset. Wolfgang being a Strongman is not a concept with a whole lot of wiggle room. For a comparison let's look at Woodie. Woodie's mutatiative forms allowed for so much creativity as it was a bizarre concept that wasn't confined to any concept of reality and could be taken in several ways. Being a Strongman doesn't entail much, thus not allowing for any extremely interesting mechanics to come to life as to not break his kit and/or emersion. People always being up the point on how Walter isn't very fun as his perks don't really connect together in a meaningful way thematically, leading to people being dissuaded from the character, even if the perks are unique in of themselves. I see it as damned if do lean away from the Strongman a bit (alike Willow's rework) to make interesting perks, or be damned with being constrained in thematically appropriate perks. I do feel like this rework was always going to flop not matter what they did with it, simply because any ideas that needed to stem for the rework needed to be more thematically appropriate as to not be criticized for the same thing twice.

As for the rework itself, I'm having fun with it. The old Wolfgang always deterred me from playing him as there was nothing about him that I found interesting. The perks and cons were simple and effective that was reliant on an "always" doing and getting style of play, which was fine but completely contrasted my laidback style. He always felt like I could never use his perks to their full advantage and that kept on holding me back from his great cosmetics and personality. While there is a lot I can deal with for aesthetics, but I character that was actively hostile to my gameplay just didn't attract me. In comparison, the new Wolfgang is admittedly a lot easier to play and manage, but now I feel like I'm not wasting resources/actively not having perks because of my playstyle.

New Wolfgang's small perks is what really sold the rework for me personally.  Now, I can spend my time while still benefiting from mightiness even while I'm doing things like mining rocks or chopping trees and don't need to constantly do more daring things just keep up the momentum from the amount of food you have/the resources you currently have on you. I no longer have to constantly min max my hunger to get that sweet damage boost and allows me to feel much more comfortable in what I can do instead of what I might do. Besides that, I also don't mind the break of weight lifting. It allows me to a few menial tasks like sort my inventory, sort out what I'm doing next, hype myself up for the boss I'm about to fight, or even (most often) taking a moment to drink some water. I know the pause menu exists, but being able to actually benefit while I'm doing these things is really nice. The heavy item movement reduction negation is honestly a personal favorite. Being able to get more benefit out of these items as Mighty form allows for more common use out of them is also nice, especially with the piggyback. It's all small things, but it's those small things that attracts me, personally, to the character.

Is the Wolfgang rework perfect, not at all. Rowing isn't really all that much better when going a singular direction, Dumbbells' are also still not the best is a large majority of circumstances that isn't intense pumping, Mightiness can't really be maintained through large swaths of Mighty actions, his downside is still a bit trivial (not as much as before, but still can be entirely ignored with enough cactus), he doesn't provide much teamwork perks (even if the recent trend shows that the perks are largely focused on the character instead of how characters work together), etc. That being said, I'm satisfied enough with how the rework turned out if they don't work on it anymore. I've reason enough to play Wolfgang now, even if other people don't.

[Vixen Doe]

IDK. I didn't play Wolfgang too much past my first hundred hours of the game, and I am now going on 600 hours in DST. I found him a tedious food sink before, which is why I stopped playing as him except for some swap-and-dropping for a tough boss battle. The refresh gives him something neat that makes me interested in actually using him as a main character in a world. The nerf was a bit mean, but rather fair in the grand scheme of things.

[Dextops]

idk why they nerfed an already balanced character but going past that i view wolfgangs combat more boring than his old combat since his old one had somewhat of a skill ceiling and i feel the rework didn't change a lot probably my least favourite rework

[reallychina]

The refresh idea was very good and very well implemented. The mightiness is trivial to sustain even early game with an eye boss statue and gembells from graves. Much better system than food hoarding.

 

The speed nerf is horrible and the way they managed to make his other forms irrelevant is also bad. In old wf, there was a benefit of even going wimpy.

 

Normal form should get the speed buff and wimpy a higher speed and more significant penalties like not able to wear armor.

 

The rowing is also not faster

[Ohan]

anyone who perceives wx and wicker to be anywhere near the same level as old wolf is wrong and edgyrick-pilled lol theres no two ways about it... 

8 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Refresh was mostly one sided (aka only nerfs, nothing unique).

Thats.. just not true though.. 

[Random Guy000]

9 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Wicker with a book meter on the other hand... Please no...

Sanity IS the book meter

[Cheggf]

He went from uninteresting and mediocre to extremely boring, really weak, and even less interesting. Not sure why for every character rework they've been exclusively buffs, sometimes enormous ones, then when they get to someone who's falling behind in a post rework world with characters like Wendy & Wanda surpassing him they just nerf him really hard.

Are they also going to nerf WX, possibly the worst character in the game, just because Reddit has a misconception that having 400 health (while needing to heal just as much as everyone else) is super good for some reason? 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

anyone who perceives wx and wicker to be anywhere near the same level as old wolf is wrong and edgyrick-pilled lol theres no two ways about it... 

i understood it like "changing their base mechanics" like they did with wolf :S

27 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

really weak

? i can get he being boring but weak? is one of the best, weak are willow or walter but wolfg not at all