[Poll] On the Wolfgang Character Refresh, Postmortem

[Starlogy]

26 minutes ago, reallychina said:

it sure doesnt feel like they are paying any attention to the community feedback on this. nit a single post from them about it

[Yuuko]

52 minutes ago, reallychina said:

 

it sure doesnt feel like they are paying any attention to the community feedback on this. nit a single post from them about it

Certainly its a timing issue as others have pointed out.  I'm kinda worried that the break is still going to have an effect though.  The noise has settled, not because people have adopted the new Wolfgang, but because people have largely said what they will say.  I've been partially avoiding any Wolfgang topics because my feelings haven't changed, but that lack of topics means when Klei comes back - Wolfgang threads may be 3-4 pages deep in the forums and they could easily move on without addressing it...

The conspiracy minded might think they timed the release like this knowing there would be push back, and wanting to be able to side step the heat with a holiday break...

[HowlVoid]

13 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

The conspiracy minded might think they timed the release like this knowing there would be push back, and wanting to be able to side step the heat with a holiday break...

Oh. My. God. 

I have been bamboozled. 

[jeen7]

太无聊了，我不喜欢这个健身系统，老感觉自己一直在健身！

[reallychina]

5 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Certainly its a timing issue as others have pointed out.  I'm kinda worried that the break is still going to have an effect though.  The noise has settled, not because people have adopted the new Wolfgang, but because people have largely said what they will say.  I've been partially avoiding any Wolfgang topics because my feelings haven't changed, but that lack of topics means when Klei comes back - Wolfgang threads may be 3-4 pages deep in the forums and they could easily move on without addressing it...

The conspiracy minded might think they timed the release like this knowing there would be push back, and wanting to be able to side step the heat with a holiday break...

there was ample feedback from players and 0 communication from them before the holidays. rework was made public on dec 11.

there was literally a book worth of comments before the holidays even started.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, reallychina said:

there was ample feedback from players and 0 communication from them before the holidays. rework was made public on dec 11.

there was literally a book worth of comments before the holidays even started.

they care so little that they just improvised a beta branch for a refresh for the first time since wortox just to improve wolf with the feedback

is just that they didn't do what you wanted

also, giving promises and other kind of communication is a stupid idea because you never know what can go wrong, etc

glad you dont have a videogame company

[reallychina]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

they care so little that they just improvised a beta branch for a refresh for the first time since wortox just to improve wolf with the feedback

is just that they didn't do what you wanted

also, giving promises and other kind of communication is a stupid idea because you never know what can go wrong, etc

glad you dont have a videogame company

the protocols for betas exist for a long time, it's not rocket science, particularly so because it's not server hosted.

it's not about giving promises, it's just about some decency to communicate ANYTHING, particularly so because there was so much interest about it.

You being "glad i don't have a videogame company" pretty much sums up your side of the people in favor of nerfs. No real arguments, only celebrating the nerf cause the others are not happy about it. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, reallychina said:

the protocols for betas exist for a long time, it's not rocket science, particularly so because it's not server hosted.

it's not about giving promises, it's just about some decency to communicate ANYTHING, particularly so because there was so much interest about it.

You being "glad i don't have a videogame company" pretty much sums up your side of the people in favor of nerfs. No real arguments, only celebrating the nerf cause the others are not happy about it. 

the only thing i celebrate about the nerf is reading comments like yours. Other than that, im all the time giving and supporting ideas to improve wolf even when im almost satisfied with the result

beta exists but they never did for characters and with this one they change their minds because of how much negative comments, few hours after the announcement they decided to open the beta so we gan give feedback before releasing it

i dont have sides but clearly you are so biased and have 0 maturity

 

[reallychina]

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the only thing i celebrate about the nerf is reading comments like yours. Other than that, im all the time giving and supporting ideas to improve wolf even when im almost satisfied with the result

beta exists but they never did for characters and with this one they change their minds because of how much negative comments, few hours after the announcement they decided to open the beta so we gan give feedback before releasing it

i dont have sides but clearly you are so biased and have 0 maturity

 

You "celebrate comments" like mine and lecture me about maturity. good to know

[Mike23Ua]

10 hours ago, reallychina said:

 only celebrating the nerf cause the others are not happy about it. 

I’m still wanting someone to explain other then speed being removed Where & HOW Wolfgang got Nerf’d…

(By the Way if they completely Remove Speed it’s not a speed nerf: A Nerf is when they lessen something… not Remove it completely)

With that said (and because I don’t want JoeW to hit me with his Ban Hammer for being disrespectful) WHERE & HOW “Exactly” was Wolfgang Nerfed besides “Speed”

Are you saying he was Nerfed in Health? Well yeah but.. Does the character who can finish fights twice as fast, and now also wear the best armor in the game without movement penalty also need MORE Health? (be logical & Mature about this: the answer is No..)

Are you saying He was Nerfed Because (like every other character Including Wendy, Wanda & Wigfrid) His “Might” now requires more effort by actually gathering & using resources?

Do you understand at all WHY he needs to do this?? Now instead of just taking an inventory full of Darkswords into a fight and a stack of Pierogi you may actually be carrying Stones/Cutstones/Purple Gems/Sticks: In the shortest and politest way possible- You now need to juggle through your character inventory of what resources you want to carry around just as much as anyone else (not to mention you can wear Piggyback packs with Extra storage without movement penalty)

Its not a “Nerf” but more like putting the character on par with other characters- Including WANDA and WENDY the ones you all proclaim and scream are “OP” you want to see my inventory for those characters??? Your welcome to screen shots- I’m carrying around 2-3 clocks/Clock crafting ingredients, 2-3 Potions/Potion crafting ingredients. It makes a Survival game that’s all about collecting resources and carefully managing your inventory with smart thoughts more exciting & engaging.

So where was his Nerf? Is it because you now need to stand still to flip a Dumbell for a few seconds to be Mighty again like Wendy has to Whisper commands into a flower or Wanda has to rewind her Age?

Is he Nerfed because being Wimpy provides less insulation? This is just Reverse Psychology: if he gets Cold faster he also gets hot faster.

Now that I’ve expressed my viewpoint, let me say that being able to be at 35% hunger & also STILL be “Mighty” with 2x damage to kill Dragonfly is generally a QoL improvement for me, His hunger isn’t draining at 3x the rate of other characters and I don’t have to “rush” finding food.. which took a character I couldn’t play due to frequent piss breaks (which now that there’s a Global pause function it’s less of a problem..) And made sure I can go Idle & maybe even build up Muscle while I Idle long enough to go take a leak.

Had this been Pre-Rework Wolfgang: Id be on the verge of Starvation Status by the time I return to my Xbox screen & already reverted back to Wimpy form due to his 3x hunger drain.

The TL:DR Removing SPEED isn’t a Nerf to speed.. it’s the Removal of it entirely, Locking Might behind needing to gather and collect resources sure I guess you CAN technically call that a “Nerf” but once you gather those resources you can remain Mighty with 2x damage even longer.. and without needing to eat 3x as much food as every other character pick to maintain it.

So I ask one more time: Where is the Nerf?

[sudoku]

I feel like ive said what ive said, even in threads where devs responded to others, so its up to klei now to decide what they want to do. There are plenty of other characters who have had their reworks and they still dont appeal to me so Wolf might just fall into that category. Heres hoping the next refresh is more interesting. 

[Yuuko]

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

(By the Way if they completely Remove Speed it’s not a speed nerf: A Nerf is when they lessen something… not Remove it completely)

That is extremely pedantic and also completely incorrect.  A nerf is a reduction in power - removing an ability which was strong is a nerf.  Don't try to pretend words mean something they're not and other people are stupid or wrong for saying them.  Resulting to petty comments like this isn't constructive for anyone.

From dictionary.com

Spoiler

Yes the speed was powerful - powerful and fun apparently.  The nerf both took away his speed AND added a tedious mini game.  These are things some players *obviously* have a problem with.  Pretending they don't and they're just stupid for thinking that is the wrong way to talk here.

25 minutes ago, sudoku said:

I feel like ive said what ive said, even in threads where devs responded to others, so its up to klei now to decide what they want to do. There are plenty of other characters who have had their reworks and they still dont appeal to me so Wolf might just fall into that category. Heres hoping the next refresh is more interesting. 

Same :\ 1 more weekend and maybe we'll see what they do :\ I don't have high hopes.

[Mike23Ua]

You quoted something that says making less powerful: Complete & total removal of isn’t making less powerful- Did you read my comment at all or just immediately jump to posting that?

I said it isn’t a NERF to Speed, it’s the complete REMOVAL of Speed..

You can consider it as a NERF to Wolfgang but that’s why I very specifically said SPEED.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You quoted something that says making less powerful: Complete & total removal of isn’t making less powerful- Did you read my comment at all or just immediately jump to posting that?

I said it isn’t a NERF to Speed, it’s the complete REMOVAL of Speed..

You can consider it as a NERF to Wolfgang but that’s why I very specifically said SPEED.

is a nerf, period

they didnt removed his speed, he isnt a rock, he is able to move since his speed isnt 0

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

is a nerf, period

they didnt removed his speed, he isnt a rock, he is able to move since his speed isnt 0

No… No it’s not.

 okay let’s try this: Let’s say you had a friend who had an unhealthy addiction to Pizza Bites, And YOU want to help that friend by Nerfing the amount of Pizza Bites He/She/They are allowed to eat, A Nerf would be eating 2-3 of their pizza bites yourself, a further nerf would be eating 15, but eating ALL Of Your friends Pizza Bites isn’t a Nerf to the amount of Pizza Bites that friend is allowed to eat- That’s instead the Complete consumption of your friends Pizza Bites.

I said that the complete removal of SPEED is not and can never be considered as a Nerf to SPEED.

(by the way I consider you as a friend in a non-weird way.. but if you even dared try to touch my pizza bites.. I’d probably punch you) 

(sorry I talk in a weird way too.. I use metaphors in my general way of speaking.. like even when talking to my real family I’ll use examples like this.. maybe it just comes with being A Gemini Idk *shrugs* not everyone Understands it though..)

[Sweaper]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

The TL:DR Removing SPEED isn’t a Nerf to speed..

Wolf can't walk on Xbox or what?

[Yuuko]

36 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You quoted something that says making less powerful: Complete & total removal of isn’t making less powerful- Did you read my comment at all or just immediately jump to posting that?

I said it isn’t a NERF to Speed, it’s the complete REMOVAL of Speed..

You can consider it as a NERF to Wolfgang but that’s why I very specifically said SPEED.

Stop being pedantic.  Are you trying to be a troll or something?  Seriously, pretending a word means something else and that other people are just stupid and using the word wrong - completely ignoring their actual comments - even if they *are* wrong - is just being pedantic, rude, and trying to start something.  Stop that right now Mike.

Taking away a powerful ability is a NERF, because a NERF is an adjustment to power levels of a character.  Now STOP being an ass.

[HowlVoid]

9 hours ago, Sweaper said:

Wolf can't walk on Xbox or what?

Unfortunately he spawns on a wheelchair on console.

And you need a second character to push him.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

16 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Are you trying to be a troll or something?

what surprise you at this point xD

[Yuuko]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

what surprise you at this point xD

While Mike frequently posts things that disagree with my own experience, I feel he does so with honest intention.  It is his perspective and that's fine.  For him the Wolfgang refresh has turned out to be a good thing, and he seems to have picked up the character.  I'm willing to admit that's a win for new Wolfgang even if the character is severely diminished in my opinion.

So yes it would surprise me if he was intentionally trolling and baiting with a comment like that.  I'm all for people disagreeing with me as I am often wrong, but picking fights over semantics is a level of pedantry that does not help anyone.  I could have ignored it like I would any other post I feel is trying to troll me, but I don't think Mike was trying to troll - so I responded as I did.  Hopefully going forward we don't see anyone try to completely ignore someone's genuine impression and feelings with some semantic dismissal like that.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

28 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

So yes it would surprise me if he was intentionally trolling and baiting with a comment like that

i will just say that he really thinks he is right but by how little sense has his comments you could get a hint of what is happening...

28 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

So yes it would surprise me if he was intentionally trolling and baiting with a comment like that.  I'm all for people disagreeing with me as I am often wrong, but picking fights over semantics is a level of pedantry that does not help anyone.  I could have ignored it like I would any other post I feel is trying to troll me, but I don't think Mike was trying to troll - so I responded as I did.  Hopefully going forward we don't see anyone try to completely ignore someone's genuine impression and feelings with some semantic dismissal like that

who knows, I have my own theory and i wouldn't mind him if wanst for how arrogant he is when it comes to feeling superior to megabasers (players that learned how to kite deerclops after +2 years...) because doing a base isnt the "true uncompromising experience" of picking flowers and crafting a thermal stone in 72 in game days.... and other moments

i guess isnt his fault neither, everybody develop a way of acting and defending in this world depending of what we experience. Not everybody has the same genes, brain, family, country,etc there is a lot of handicaps that can make us act like bad persons the important thing is to improve

we just need to be patience and correct him if we feel like it so other people dont fall in his missinformation. We also have the ignore feature which is useful to reduce the amount of scrolling. And im aware that im the one with less patience here but, as we say in mycountry, "advice i bring but not for me"