Who will be the the 3rd character reworked this year?

[Apotemis]

It would be better if they left Wilson untouched. I mean, the only reason why anyone would want a Wilson rework would be so we can weave his not-so-cheap skins. He's the first option when I don't know what to play and all. Having no advantages or disavantages just feels like the greatest quirk of all.

[Erineyes7]

26 minutes ago, Apotemis said:

It would be better if they left Wilson untouched. I mean, the only reason why anyone would want a Wilson rework would be so we can weave his not-so-cheap skins. He's the first option when I don't know what to play and all. Having no advantages or disavantages just feels like the greatest quirk of all.

The problem is that compared to every other character, Wilson is so weak in every way. Every character can get by much easier than him because they have perks that help with survivability and usefulness.

I don't want Wilson to have a different play style, he should be the basic boy, but giving him additional healing and science crafts to help him out would make him much more interesting. 

[Guille6785]

2 hours ago, clickrush said:

Hey, on the point on Maxwell being good at this:

I did a ruins rush yesterday as WX but I‘m not as hooked on the character anymore. Was actually trying to find one that I‘d like to play for a long term world. First trying Warly but, even though I think he is objectively well designed, I don’t enjoy his reliance on farming as much and I find thinking about and preparing foods that much less enjoyable than I thought.

However what caught my eye is your point above about Maxwell. He was one of my favs a couple years ago. I never even considered rushing ruins on him, even though I think the stuff you surface have strong benefits for him.

My question is: how is it feasible for him to do so? I assume you‘d use his combat shadows? I almost never used them and found them weak/wasteful, but I also exclusively played him with groups of friends where I would avoid combat.

summon miners to mine the statues faster, that's all

[Bluegeist]

I am dying to know why wx is so cross with Wagstaff, but if it isnt their time I wont be too mad because i am excited for everything

[clickrush]

16 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

summon miners to mine the statues faster, that's all

Ty, I figured that is the case. But I rather have the option to kill a few clockworks as well to get more stuff in general. In my last run I had to fight quite a few clockworks to get to some of the statues. The big issue are the Bishops as they attack from a screen away and their projectile moves so fast that I rarely dodge it except while running away. I also lagg quite a bit on the server I play (friend) so not using a combat character seems way too slow/risky for me.

[DarkPulse91]

Seems like everyone wants a WX rework next, and I'm with them on that, ive been waiting for WX to be reworked so I can finally main him again. He isn't good as a together character, so I hope they can make him more of a team player and not just the main reason gears are locked away.

[Guille6785]

3 hours ago, clickrush said:

Ty, I figured that is the case. But I rather have the option to kill a few clockworks as well to get more stuff in general. In my last run I had to fight quite a few clockworks to get to some of the statues. The big issue are the Bishops as they attack from a screen away and their projectile moves so fast that I rarely dodge it except while running away. I also lagg quite a bit on the server I play (friend) so not using a combat character seems way too slow/risky for me.

try fighting them with armor

[Cheggf]

6 hours ago, clickrush said:

Hey, on the point on Maxwell being good at this:

I did a ruins rush yesterday as WX but I‘m not as hooked on the character anymore. Was actually trying to find one that I‘d like to play for a long term world. First trying Warly but, even though I think he is objectively well designed, I don’t enjoy his reliance on farming as much and I find thinking about and preparing foods that much less enjoyable than I thought.

However what caught my eye is your point above about Maxwell. He was one of my favs a couple years ago. I never even considered rushing ruins on him, even though I think the stuff you surface have strong benefits for him.

My question is: how is it feasible for him to do so? I assume you‘d use his combat shadows? I almost never used them and found them weak/wasteful, but I also exclusively played him with groups of friends where I would avoid combat.

Maxwell's duelists won't really help much. Potentially they could pitch in a little, but rooks would be extremely prone to killing them so you would have to work around that. The main thing Maxwell has for ruins rushing is his shadow miners, allowing him to save inventory space with his infinite durability miners & save a lot of time since those statues take a whole 10 swings and there's a lot of them. He also has 6.7 sanity per minute so he might need to fight fewer shadows.

You can either clear the ruins out then summon your miners and have them break everything as you go through the ruins backwards, or have the miners out the whole time and mine as you fight & go through the first time. That one is really risky since the rooks are prone to killing them, but it is possible.

3 hours ago, clickrush said:

Ty, I figured that is the case. But I rather have the option to kill a few clockworks as well to get more stuff in general. In my last run I had to fight quite a few clockworks to get to some of the statues. The big issue are the Bishops as they attack from a screen away and their projectile moves so fast that I rarely dodge it except while running away. I also lagg quite a bit on the server I play (friend) so not using a combat character seems way too slow/risky for me.

WX isn't really a combat character either. Whether you're WX or Maxwell you're going to deal the same damage & heal the same amount. The only difference is that WX can heal with gears so he doesn't need as much healing, and Maxwell has an extremely small healthpool so you need to be on point with equipping armor whenever you're going to take damage (or always wear armor, or just heal a lot lol), and you need to pay more attention to when you need to heal. All the enemies in the ruins have very distinct sound effects so you can always tell what's going on if you listen. All of the bishop's sound effects have an electrical hum in them so if you hear an electrical hopping you know one's aggro'd onto you and you need to either walk towards the noise to combat him or away from it to avoid getting hit, and if you hear a shot being fired you need to immediately put armor on. Through armor a bishop's attack will deal anywhere between 2 & 8 damage depending on what armor you're using so anyone can tank them, even Maxwell & Wes.

Maxwell is definitely one of the harder characters to do the ruins as, but he'll be faster than WX if you can manage it.

[clickrush]

18 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

try fighting them with armor

Yes I do that, they still hurt you since you tank them and often come in pairs and surrounded by other clockworks. I mean you obviously wear armor if you want to kill them. On Maxwell they need only about 10ish hits and you don't deal damage fast. It's just I can see myself failing in there if stuff gets tricky as Maxwell.

I mean you can always just get what you can with minimal combat but I feel like then you're wasting your time down there. Probably more efficient to just make a summer base near the wilds and then go much better prepared on characters like Maxwell, while spending early autumn to do things he is strong at right?

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Maxwell's duelists won't really help much. Potentially they could pitch in a little, but rooks would be extremely prone to killing them so you would have to work around that. The main thing Maxwell has for ruins rushing is his shadow miners, allowing him to save inventory space with his infinite durability miners & save a lot of time since those statues take a whole 10 swings and there's a lot of them. He also has 6.7 sanity per minute so he might need to fight fewer shadows.

You can either clear the ruins out then summon your miners and have them break everything as you go through the ruins backwards, or have the miners out the whole time and mine as you fight & go through the first time. That one is really risky since the rooks are prone to killing them, but it is possible.

WX isn't really a combat character either. Whether you're WX or Maxwell you're going to deal the same damage & heal the same amount. The only difference is that WX can heal with gears so he doesn't need as much healing, and Maxwell has an extremely small healthpool so you need to be on point with equipping armor whenever you're going to take damage (or always wear armor, or just heal a lot lol), and you need to pay more attention to when you need to heal. All the enemies in the ruins have very distinct sound effects so you can always tell what's going on if you listen. All of the bishop's sound effects have an electrical hum in them so if you hear an electrical hopping you know one's aggro'd onto you and you need to either walk towards the noise to combat him or away from it to avoid getting hit, and if you hear a shot being fired you need to immediately put armor on. Through armor a bishop's attack will deal anywhere between 2 & 8 damage depending on what armor you're using so anyone can tank them, even Maxwell & Wes.

Maxwell is definitely one of the harder characters to do the ruins as, but he'll be faster than WX if you can manage it.

Makes a ton of sense to factor in his high speed in a ruins rush. Also some good tips in there. But the bottom line for me here is that it's too risky. I would take too much damage and ruin the run (no pun intended) if you factor in lagg and general clunkyness. There are sometimes parts in the ruins that have very little space to move and are packed with enemies, like half a screen wide. I also had times where I disengage from a bad situation/position and just run into the next, which can lead to taking a ton of damage, especially during nightmare phases. I don't like the idea! Seems much easier with Wolfgang/WX etc.

[Cheggf]

10 minutes ago, clickrush said:

Makes a ton of sense to factor in his high speed in a ruins rush.

What do you do to overcharge in a ruins rush? In DSA you can hammer APSS but that doesn't make lightning in DST. I could see him being overcharged in a ruins clear after you have a shadow manipulator but at that point it's not much of a rush, but if you were overcharged then light for no slot & movement speed would make it a lot easier, and quite a bit faster too.

14 minutes ago, clickrush said:

Seems much easier with Wolfgang/WX etc.

Yeah I would say the easiest characters to clear the ruins as are probably WX, Wolfgang, Wortox (Splumonkeys have souls), and Wigfrid. Wendy, Woodie, Maxwell, & Warly (I forgot him in my first list, sorry Warly) are also great at it but they're either more difficult or require a more noticeable change to your playstyle to do it.

[Wardin25]

4 hours ago, Bluegeist said:

I am dying to know why wx is so cross with Wagstaff, but if it isnt their time I wont be too mad because i am excited for everything

maybe because they considered wagstaff his papa and he threw them into the constant

[clickrush]

7 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

What do you do to overcharge in a ruins rush? In DSA you can hammer APSS but that doesn't make lightning in DST. I could see him being overcharged in a ruins clear after you have a shadow manipulator but at that point it's not much of a rush, but if you were overcharged then light for no slot & movement speed would make it a lot easier, and quite a bit faster too.

Yeah I would say the easiest characters to clear the ruins as are probably WX, Wolfgang, Wortox (Splumonkeys have souls), and Wigfrid. Wendy, Woodie, Maxwell, & Warly (I forgot him in my first list, sorry Warly) are also great at it but they're either more difficult or require a more noticeable change to your playstyle to do it.

No I meant Maxwell, speed as in clearing the statues fast and with less resources as you mentioned. WX isn't particularly fast in DST ruins but certainly safe. But again, after doing one run yesterday I kind of realized I lost interest in the character so I'm looking for others to play.

[Dextops]

44 minutes ago, Wardin25 said:

maybe because they considered wagstaff his papa and he threw them into the constant

or because wx just didn't want to exist since he has emotions but no time to ever develop them so they go straight into depression phase

[-Nick-]

On 5/9/2021 at 2:12 AM, LinknAllie said:

I just want to see WX-78 lore

WX-78 lore = Wagstaff lore.

 

It's a win win for me.

[landromat]

Maxwell needs rework desperately. WX can wait

[ArubaroBeefalo]

15 minutes ago, landromat said:

Maxwell needs rework desperately. WX can wait

maxwell is way more usefull than mr easy mode robot

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

What do you do to overcharge in a ruins rush? In DSA you can hammer APSS but that doesn't make lightning in DST. I could see him being overcharged in a ruins clear after you have a shadow manipulator but at that point it's not much of a rush, but if you were overcharged then light for no slot & movement speed would make it a lot easier, and quite a bit faster too.

Yeah I would say the easiest characters to clear the ruins as are probably WX, Wolfgang, Wortox (Splumonkeys have souls), and Wigfrid. Wendy, Woodie, Maxwell, & Warly (I forgot him in my first list, sorry Warly) are also great at it but they're either more difficult or require a more noticeable change to your playstyle to do it.

not really warly, mousse doesn't save time and he has to cook his food which slows him down

[Cheggf]

16 minutes ago, landromat said:

Maxwell needs rework desperately. WX can wait

Maxwell is fun, interesting, and useful. WX is none of those. Maxwell can wait.

Also Maxwell doesn't eat a resource that new players struggle to get any of and requires doing some stupid stuff to make renewable in any serious amount.

[LinknAllie]

2 hours ago, Nickolai said:

WX-78 lore = Wagstaff lore.

That's exactly why I want it

[MikoFanboy]

people seem to forget that non-DST character can get reworked to

like Warly, he being added to DST as a reworked character :v

 

[blacknight7890]

1 hour ago, MikoFanboy said:

people seem to forget that non-DST character can get reworked to

like Warly, he being added to DST as a reworked character :v

 

Warly already had his update, the ones I had chosen are the only ones to not have an update yet.

Though they did say they would add another new character, that one might be a non dst one, but it wouldn't be the 3rd rework.

[Masked Koopa]

Can't wait for the wilba rework.

[Cheggf]

8 minutes ago, blacknight7890 said:

Warly already had his update, the ones I had chosen are the only ones to not have an update yet.

Though they did say they would add another new character, that one might be a non dst one, but it wouldn't be the 3rd rework.

If I remember correctly Warly was added as a rework, not one of the promised characters.

[QuartzBeam]

4 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

people seem to forget that non-DST character can get reworked to

JoeW has confirmed they are not bringing any DS characters into DST in the foreseeable future.

[clickrush]

  

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

If I remember correctly Warly was added as a rework, not one of the promised characters.

I got frustrated with Warly abandoned two worlds I played him solo back to back and then another one I played with a friend. But it wasn't Warly's fault!

In the world with my friend I was just overwhelmed from having to get him up to speed with all the things that can/should be done, while also learning a new character and all the changes (farming etc.) that happened in the last years to it felt a bit stressful. (Now it's great! He found his character and we have a great time, each doing their thing and coordinating what is needed.) Point here is that it wasn't about Warly but about having to think for two for a while.

But in my solo worlds I did a very simple mistake very repeatedly that I first wasn't aware of: I didn't bring my crockpot, even though I knew it would be a good idea (as many have said on these boards)! I don't know why exactly, maybe for the same reason people leave Chester at home, even though for the vast majority of cases it is very beneficial to have him on you. With the crockpot in his inventory you don't need to plan for food and are forced to stay X days outside of base and then go back. The portable crockpot is huge: It gives him so much freedom of movement, negates most of his downside for one inventory slot while giving him the ability to be more opportunistic and efficient.

A character that I experienced second hand now is Wurt, played by my friend. After reading up on her and seeing her in action I feel like she is a super interesting character with unique and powerful gameplay, just like Warly.

The bottom line here is this: There are characters like the ones I mentioned above that offer interesting gameplay, surpassing some of the others in depth and often in utility as well. After having played one of them and going back to some of the older ones that I very much enjoyed before, like WX, I simply miss something.

---

In the spirit of this thread I now feel like it would be definitely a good thing to expand on some of these characters and bring them up to par in depth as some of the newer/reworked ones.

Of the mentioned ones I think Wolfgang is the one that needs to be touched the least. He provides a non-trivial amount of power that is unmatched in many circumstances. This alone makes him already interesting and popular.

Wickerbottom has depth in theory, but I feel like her powerlevel just has been brought down so much that a straight buff or new utility is warranted.

I'm suprised that WX feels bland now! Before the refreshes and additions started, he was actually one of the most interesting characters, while also being powerful. He just doesn't feel that way anymore. He doesn't lack much. A bit of QoL regarding System Overload and maybe some small gadget or utility would be plenty.

Maxwell has very polarizing gameplay, is very powerful and interesting. But he severely lacks QoL regarding flexibility with his puppets as well as a reason for his bodyguards to exist. They are just *bad*, which is frustrating. The Wendy rework has shown that it is possible to design and tune a character around having combat AI that is powerful and fun without being off the hook overpowered. For example I wouldn't mind if they were easier to control and they desperately need some mechanic to stay alive, which probably means damage reduction and some kind of healing/recovery mechanism. Maxwell could for example lose health to heal them up or something like that.

Wilson got powercrept by the whole cast so people don't find a reason to play him anymore, except for their first couple of runs. The powercreep is warranted: More stuff has been added in the game, including threats, bosses and monsters, so you are going to play longer worlds and do more difficult stuff to experience it all. I imagine a Wilson that has some perks around exploration and examination as well as beard hair being more useful, directly or indirectly.