Well... RoT is over

[Szczuku]

Hello, new thread.

RoT, as in the update chain, has been concluded. No more fancy yellow words in the trailers. We've had a total of 7 updates (8 if you count rwys). So I'm not going to consider QoL updates as part of RoT.

I, personally have been a little let down by RoT. The story has been kinda janky, as well as the way it's been woven into the gameplay. For example, I'd imagine moonstorms to be a bit more... intimidating. Not to mention that the story was just jammed to the Gateway arc we had in the past, no proper connection. Gameplay-wise it wasn't that bad, I mean, it's new stuff, obviously it's welcome. Stuff like Hermit Island, new plants, decorations, turf crafting station- all very welcome in the sandbox. However survival, survival got nothing. If anything, surviving has been made more trivial with the reworked farms.

Having said that, I hope that dst receives its next content update soon and that it'll address some of the problems such as outdated content, predictability, no progression or holes left by RoT (mainly empty ocean)

What are your guys' thoughts regarding RoT?

[Dextops]

i can get why people didn't like RoT but i loved every update except crab king he was probably just the bad apple of the bunch but i hope to see more additions to the sea to make it more worthwhile even then i just find it fun to make a boat base and drift around go back to mainland and i just can't wait for the new content after RoT 

[Hornete]

I have some problems with RoT, but in general I think it's an absolutely fantastic update chain. The early/mid-game content are my personal favorites, updates such as Turn of Tides, Salty Dog, Hook Line and Sinker bringing many new playstyles and content you can tackle from day 1 and have so much fun with, bringing new ways to survive to the game. These new methods of survival bring a lot of replayability in the game, new food sources such as ocean fish, kelp, barnacles and etc. I love ocean fish so much and they could be even more amazing if we got more unique uses for fish akin to the thermal fishes.

I'm not sure what you really mean by "survival got nothing" I think survival got tons of stuff! The sandbox and survival elements of this game are woven together, if you bring new stuff with sandbox elements it likely improves the survival elements of this game too. Ocean fish, barnacle farms, anenemies, glass cutters, glass axes, kelp and etc all help to improve the sandbox and survival elements of this game very nicely, and are alternatives of existing items with their own downsides and upsides!
 

[Duck986]

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How do you rate RoT story-wise?

Bad - we still don't know who are "them".

[HowlVoid]

54 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

Bad - we still don't know who are "them".

I think its not so bad that they didn't right out tell us, but rather we got 0 clues. 

Instead, we got some clues as to what Charlie may be up to. Although not enough to make any kind of speculation. 

I think this ark was very strong but had its flaws. We got a few new biomes which is probably the most requested additions. We got some new bosses (one of which still has bad loot!). Overall it was good.

[Hornete]

7 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I think its not so bad that they didn't right out tell us, but rather we got 0 clues.

 

1 hour ago, Duck986 said:

Bad - we still don't know who are "them".

I think it's safe to say Alter and Metheus are a part of Them

Klei out-right says They've been here all along in the description for the eye of the storm update, the update where the eye on the moon reveals itself, so I think it's safe to say that's one of Them . Also, the "METHEUS IS HERE" secret message from the Axiom Visus trailer. Alter's name was also mentioned back in Forgotten Knowledge by Maxwell.

I do wish there were some more in-game hints at Alter and their existence in general. But I think we have a fairly good idea of who's a part of "Them" at the least.

[MondayNight]

Story-wise? There's no direct storytelling and/or evident story, just hints at what may be happening. We clearly know a piece of "Moon" felt on Constant's cardboard (stage-type prop) "ocean" and.. somehow liquified it. Or lifted a liquid platform on top of the now-cardboard watery abyss below. Why it felt? Don't know, "magic". Now there's a Lunar Archipelago with specific biomes and Lunacy meter. With some special Lunar altars around Constant. Why? Don't know, "magic". Apparently lunar meteor/broken piece of "Moon" shell felt on-top-of a sealed Ruins-type chamber of the ancient bug-people. Why it felt there and why Ancient Archive was sealed? Don't know, "magic". Murals in Metheus puzzle show bug-people worshiping "Moon" entity in the beginning, now hinted by Archive's Moonrock-and-Thulecite paraphernalia as well. Why? Don't know, "magic & science" ("The science of magic!" said Wilson and got promptly and rightly-so slapped for that). Charlie and Wagstaff are doing.. stuff in the deep&dark corners of Constant. Why? Don't know, "magic & sicence"! "Moon" (now known, maybe, as Alter) is enraged/upset/[insert negative emotion] by survivors gathering Lunar Altars and sends down its champion warrior or-the-like, the aptly named.. Celestial Champion. Why? Don't know, more "science of magic". Everyone fights. Why? Don't know, "magi..". Wait! Is just because everything in Constant hates Survivors, right? MAYBE!

It's all a big maybe, perhaps, perchance. We don't even know who/what "They" are after "Their" arc concluded. Good "storiki!"

 

As for specific and new Lunar builds? Here's a Moon Glass Axe, a Glass Cutter and some lunar turf. Yeey?!

Oh, and what we get at end-of-arc, beating "ultimate bossiki"? A Tam O'+Miner Hat hybrid. Gives light if >85% sanity. Oh, and some micro-Gestalts assist-attack (if, once more: >85% sanity). That's it.

Sure is nice we got new content, optional one at that, but hey, "gift horse will not be checked at its teeth" (don't ask). Or will it?!

Could've been more and mandatory, core-content focused. Could've embraced its initial eldritch horror "outer dimensional god of madness" (lunacy) aspect - regarding this topic, proposed "Eye of the Storm" concepts were A LOT better than what we finally got (one can beg to disagree). Could've had a lush ocean full of alien flora and fauna, not some endless amount of dull, turd-like Sea Stacks. Could've had seasonal weather, on land and sea alike. And most of all, progression. Past 1st in-game year everything remains the same, except the puke-like rot going-on everywhere, like some after-party reminder Constant's creatures shouldn't drink that much on empty stomach (or is jut me, probably just me). A lot of "could've".

Maybe in future. Maybe, perhaps, perchance.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Hornete said:

 

I think it's safe to say Alter and Metheus are a part of Them

Klei out-right says They've been here all along in the description for the eye of the storm update, the update where the eye on the moon reveals itself, so I think it's safe to say that's one of Them .

Well there are possible factions, there isn't any context as to what "Them" is even referring to because its so vague. As in, them the shadows or them the entities. "They" have been here all along can be referring to several different things. When Maxwell inspects a lantern he says "it keeps Them at bay". Without context we don't know what faction of them they are referring to. I don't know if that makes sense lol. I don't think we can quite yet confirm with certainty that the moon is a part of "Them" or if it is its own "Them".

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Also, the "METHEUS IS HERE" secret message from the Axiom Visus trailer. Alter's name was also mentioned back in Forgotten Knowledge by Maxwell.

All I can say is that people like to think they have the answer and stop thinking about other possibilities. When a story ark is as long as this one there are going to be misdirections to try and deceive us. This allows for the writers to try and keep us entertained with unexpected developments.

We still don't know who metheus is (100% only that's its most likely the torch bearer).  

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I do wish there were some more in-game hints at Alter and their existence in general. But I think we have a fairly good idea of who's a part of "Them" at the least.

I don't think so. The "Them" we have been hearing about all along seem to be enemies with the moon. There is still the unknown entity that was in the portal. "They" have been here all along could be referring to Them being in the constant. 

Think about this: We know the ancients fought against something in the portal. We know the queen sacrificed herself to stop it somehow because there are no traces of an evil eye entity in the ruins. What if they managed to get out but were somehow sealed? In this case, "They have always been here" can mean they are in the constant and not on the other side of the portal as we thought. Perhaps they are sealed in the archives. 

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who can come up with all kinds of possible scenerios and people don't understand when I say "Hold on a minute, maybe there's more?". All I'm saying is, when you think you've found the answer, keep looking or it will sneak up on ya.

[Hornete]

9 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Well there are possible factions, there isn't any context as to what "Them" is even referring to because its so vague. As in, them the shadows or them the entities. "They" have been here all along can be referring to several different things. When Maxwell inspects a lantern he says "it keeps Them at bay". Without context we don't know what faction of them they are referring to. I don't know if that makes sense lol. I don't think we can quite yet confirm with certainty that the moon is a part of "Them" or if it is its own "Them".

I don't think Maxwell knows what he's talking about when examining the lantern though, especially with his quote when examining the dead celestial champion

ALTERGUARDIAN_PHASE3DEAD = "I don't know what to believe. All this time, I thought that They were...",

It seems like he didn't even know what They are. Though maybe he means he thought They were dead with this quote? Rather than Them being a seperate entity, Dunno! Wish maxwell finished his damn sentences .

Seriously this guy does NOT want to finish your damn sentences

ALTERGUARDIAN_PHASE3DEADORB = "This power, it feels like... but it couldn't be...",

It feels like what?? it couldnt be what??? FINISH YOUR SENTENCES MAXWELL ACKAKCKAC Don't even get me started on Wortox, his examines for the lunar runes in the archives are straight up "Hyuyuy! oh my! How interesting, I musnt spoil the surprise!", you shriveled imp, what did you read/see on those runes TELL US

 

16 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I don't think so. The "Them" we have been hearing about all along seem to be enemies with the moon. There is still the unknown entity that was in the portal. "They" have been here all along could be referring to Them being in the constant. 

Who/What else hints at Them being enemies of the moon besides Maxwell? My lore knowledge is really dusty but I remember it only being Maxwell who hinted at Them being shadows/enemies of the moon, i'm curious what else might have hinted at that.

[minespatch]

They should do more vegetable animals:

[HEAVYDIRTYSOUL]

6 minutes ago, minespatch said:

They should do more vegetable animals:

OH MY GOD YES. that pomegranate thingy looks absolutely adorable, it reminds me of the Pumpkin from Steven Universe :d

[Maxil20]

3 hours ago, Szczuku said:

I, personally have been a little let down by RoT. The story has been kinda janky, as well as the way it's been woven into the gameplay.

I don't think the story is too bad, but I can agree with you on the gameplay being... off. Most of the content is fine, but I wish there was more lategame stuff to play with or it wasn't as difficult to use/get said endgame content.

As of right now, the main uses from the final boss are the enlightened crown/shards. The crown is alright being a tam upgrade, but I don't like how it's light/gestalts thresholds are the exact same ones, and are based on a % of sanity. As Webber it's very difficult for me to use the crown for light during spring because of the need to wear an eyebrella, and 3 minutes of dusk drain rapidly add up during spring. Meanwhile on someone like Wendy, I practically have never had issues with the crown dipping below 90% whatsoever. I wish the light was emitted until 70% sanity, and the gestalts remained at the same threshold it is now.

Then there's the shards. I'm okay with fighting the boss for 5 lights, but I am not okay with needing to create the siphonator every, single, time I want those shards. 3 statics + 15 moongleams + 30 charged moonglass is a chore to build it up every time. It takes at least 2-3 days of constant focus to gather the materials, and that's assuming it's perfect due to the extreme spoilage rate of the moonglass. Bulk grinding the mats can work better, but spending 2 hours in winter sitting in the moonstorm to farm charged moonglass is not my definition of fun. My main idea to fix this is reducing the resummon cost/making a "damaged" version of the structure to get some mats back or repair it there, but I don't know if that's getting added.
 

3 hours ago, Szczuku said:

However survival, survival got nothing. If anything, surviving has been made more trivial with the reworked farms.

I think the main issue is it's difficult to change the core experience if it's already set without making a new experience altogether (think SW/HAM). Reworking things to simply be more unforgiving is going to cause massive outcries in the community, and I feel like it would spell disaster any way they do it. Not saying I wouldn't be down for the idea (and if I was, world settings tm usually has me covered).

 

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Hornete said:

I don't think Maxwell knows what he's talking about when examining the lantern though, especially with his quote when examining the dead celestial champion

ALTERGUARDIAN_PHASE3DEAD = "I don't know what to believe. All this time, I thought that They were...",

It seems like he didn't even know what They are. Though maybe he means he thought They were dead with this quote? Rather than Them being a seperate entity, Dunno! Wish maxwell finished his damn sentences .

Seriously this guy does NOT want to finish your damn sentences

 

Haha you got a point there. I think I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now... He was on the nightmare throne for so long and kept rambling on about Them and how he stays dapper to keep them away... I would hope that with him being there for so long he would know what he is talking about... Maybe his memories were tampered idk so much is up in the air honestly (and there are possibilities for plot holes but we don't talk about that :p) 

Edit: Forgot that Maxwell is the first to hint that the moon isn't a real moon. When he inspects the moon dial he quotes the moon a lot like "moon" and how its watching him. 

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ALTERGUARDIAN_PHASE3DEADORB = "This power, it feels like... but it couldn't be...",

It feels like what?? it couldnt be what??? FINISH YOUR SENTENCES MAXWELL ACKAKCKAC Don't even get me started on Wortox, his examines for the lunar runes in the archives are straight up "Hyuyuy! oh my! How interesting, I musnt spoil the surprise!", you shriveled imp, what did you read/see on those runes TELL US

That damn sneaky imp!

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Who/What else hints at Them being enemies of the moon besides Maxwell? My lore knowledge is really dusty but I remember it only being Maxwell who hinted at Them being shadows/enemies of the moon, i'm curious what else might have hinted at that.

Well Charlie is really hostile at the moon but we don't know who's side Charlie is on at the moment(corrupt? Using us?). The shadow creatures are natural enemies to the gestalts but again, Charlie seems to control them. There is a lot of Chess imagery all over the place and we know who the black pieces are so we assume the white pieces belong to the moon. The murals depict the eye entity in the portal being foiled by a light from the torch (and the torch uses moon energy?). 

So many question not enough answers...

[DST_LSJ]

6 hours ago, Szczuku said:

If anything, surviving has been made more trivial with the reworked farms.

I hope that one day I can add The Gorge cooking system to the original game too.

[Szczuku]

One thing that amplifies my disappointment with RoT is that now it just feels like I had relieved the Hamlet arc.

Both things were hyped up. Both things had issues we thought would get fixed later. And both things have been concluded too early.

From my understanding dst will continue to receive new content updates, it's just that they will no longer be labeled as RoT.

But why is that? Why end RoT seemingly out of nowhere? 

Did the devs decide to consider RoT only as a story arc update chain? Well then, shall I remind them that only 3 updates had any lore. Turn of Tides had set up the stage, Forgotten Knowledge took the first step, Eye of the Storm took the second one and devs decided to call it a day. Rest of the updates had nothing to do with lore, they were just ocean content.

To me it seems like that decision was caused by some sort of dumb bussiness practise that we'll hear of in a month.

[Cassielu]

I'm a little disappointed to be honest, I thought it was going to be something like ANR. Everything about it seems to be just service for CC, but CC itself isn't very good, it doesn't feel like a "final boss battle", especially compared to Fulewaver. and there aren't many useful rewards in the process, it doesn't motivate you to complete the whole journey.

In terms of lore, we don't seem to have anything except that the moon is a magical giant eyeball once worshipped by the ancients probably one of "Them". And it doesn't explain the existing problems, it creates more problem.

[Monkey Cups]

21 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

We still don't know who metheus is (100% only that's its most likely the torch bearer).  

...

Think about this: We know the ancients fought against something in the portal. We know the queen sacrificed herself to stop it somehow because there are no traces of an evil eye entity in the ruins.

Where does that information even come from? Some old stream or puzzle that I missed? People seem convinced that the torch bearer is female which is information not in the game anywhere. I'm not even a new player, I've had DST + single player for ages! It's not great storytelling to have information scattered across things most people won't ever see, even if you think it's cool at the time. I like puzzles and all but it gets frustrating after a certain point especially if it's a multi person thing and you're a solo player. (I still haven't done the Metheus puzzle for that reason and that ancient mod by "Mr Skitts" isn't playable anymore if you even can find a copy.)

[MondayNight]

9 hours ago, Szczuku said:

To me it seems like that decision was caused by some sort of dumb bussiness practise that we'll hear of in a month.

Now that you underline this, I believe CCP is vehemently against skeletons, ghosts, the macabre, and violence in general. Guess what all those Horror mobs, "Moon" aesthetic elements, Gestalts, plus even Celestial Champion are. Not to mention again "Eye of the Storm" proposed concepts (that got cut of course). Maybe you're onto something..

PS: a "humble" hello to the Tencent "bosses": howdy chaps!

[Szczuku]

2 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Now that you underline this, I believe CCP is vehemently against skeletons, ghosts, the macabre, and violence in general. Guess what all those Horror mobs, "Moon" aesthetic elements, Gestalts, plus even Celestial Champion are. Not to mention again "Eye of the Storm" proposed concepts (that got cut of course)

Hah, I guess that's what happens when 'creative freedom' turns into 'creative autonomy'.

Trully amusing how after having been bought by Tencent RoT received only a single update- its last one.

[Mike23Ua]

31 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Hah, I guess that's what happens when 'creative freedom' turns into 'creative autonomy'.

Trully amusing how after having been bought by Tencent RoT received only a single update- its last one.

I highly doubt this is the case.. It’s probably more like a TV Series with cliffhanger endings that lead you into the next season.

Right now- we know Charlie wants to beat up the Moon.. but why and for what purpose? Wagstaff shows up steals a thing and leaves... 

It reminds me of the tv series Defiance (R.I.P Defiance I knew ye well) where people would just show up and do/take things and you don’t find out till next season why they did/took them.

What we know for certain is that next month we get both a rework and a new content update- apparently titled as Mid-Summers Crawnieval?

what is a Craw? Like Crawfish? Crawmerax from Borderlands?? Why has return of them concluded so soon?

[Dextops]

36 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

but why and for what purpose?

well the moon is providing full light which means charlie has little if any power at all against the moon since she has no influence over the survivors so if she was to destroy an ancient being that is opposed to her her reign would be eternal ya know except without a moon the tides would become funky and most of the constant would be underwater

[me real life]

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Hah, I guess that's what happens when 'creative freedom' turns into 'creative autonomy'.

Trully amusing how after having been bought by Tencent RoT received only a single update- its last one.

This is such a weird leap in logic. Tencent bought a stake in Klei so now Klei is going to... conclude this chapter of the plot and move on to the next? Which will almost certainly still be moon related?

5 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

I believe CCP is vehemently against skeletons, ghosts, the macabre, and violence in general.

 You're thinking of realistic-looking human skulls, and blood. Neither of which have ever been present in DST... aside from like half a second of blood in the Forbidden Knowledge trailer in 2013, which was already changed to blue in the console versions long ago.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

What we know for certain is that next month we get both a rework and a new content update- apparently titled as Mid-Summers Crawnieval?

what is a Craw? Like Crawfish? Crawmerax from Borderlands?? Why has return of them concluded so soon?

"Cawnival," not Crawnival. My interpretation is that it'll be about birds, crows maybe, because they caw.

[hot focaccia]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I highly doubt this is the case.. It’s probably more like a TV Series with cliffhanger endings that lead you into the next season.

 

yes i belive that you are right because so far i havent really been disappointed by an update by klei really (maybe a bit from wigfrid rework but all i did was check the crafting tab then left so i dont really know ) so i onestly believe that as you said its meant to be like,season 1:return of them  season 2:oh no they are here

[Truffle]

I feel like the gameplay aspect would've been better if the foundation for boat controls were better and there was more rewarding loot to be offered. Boating can be slow and janky for the most part and there isn't that many useful items. I mean crab king doesn't drop anything useful, malbatross(which is a pain to find and farm) only drops stuff for your boat and the champions crown is cool but for all you have to do for it might not even be worth it. The best thing we go out of RoT imo was the farm rework

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Truffle said:

I feel like the gameplay aspect would've been better if the foundation for boat controls were better and there was more rewarding loot to be offered. Boating can be slow and janky for the most part and there isn't that many useful items. I mean crab king doesn't drop anything useful, malbatross(which is a pain to find and farm) only drops stuff for your boat and the champions crown is cool but for all you have to do for it might not even be worth it. The best thing we go out of RoT imo was the farm rework

in my opinion i found RoT fun the boats were cool building a moving base the bosses were fun well crab king was better with friends (hence why its called together) malbatross filled my need of something i could do easily and the beak of malbatross proved to be useful for my farming needs