Studio Announcement

[RoughCactus69]

4 minutes ago, viberr said:

YES SIIIIIIRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!1

well anyways with that out of the way 

some people like him because they're new and don't know how terrible he is

and some are people who have been watching his videos for ages and don't want to say hes a terrible person

and some people are just as toxic as him so they watch his content

He's got good knowledge no lie, but the way he goes about showing that knowledge is where I get a little Upsetti Spaghetti.

 

"IF YOU DON'T PLAY MY WAY, AND ONLY MY WAY! YOU'RE AN IDIOT, AND PROBABLY A WES MAIN!"

Sincerely,

Slightly Spikey'r Cactus

[viberr]

1 minute ago, RoughCactus69 said:

He's got good knowledge no lie, but the way he goes about showing that knowledge is where I get a little Upsetti Spaghetti.

YES SIIIRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike23Ua]

This entire thread or at least 30 of 41 (42?) pages has been nothing but disappointment & sadness: And I’ve come to realize that me commenting on other people’s posts to try and show them how & why this isn’t as bad as they’re making it out to be is really a wasted effort on my behalf.

I keep saying Tencent dominates like 70% of the gaming market, and that there’s hardly any game you can play that doesn’t involve Tencent in some way.. But it falls on deaf ears, people are going to complain: and at this point I think that maybe I should let them complain until they’ve worn themselves out & they either leave for good or Klei restores their faith with exciting announcements.

There is no in-between: If you say your never playing Klei’s games again but you stick around on their forums.. what are you even here for? Publicity? Attention? To continue to be upset over something you KNOW your opinions won’t change? Or are you really still here hoping Klei lives up to their word of showing through game content and what they plan to do next that their decision was the right choice?

There is no In-Between.

[viberr]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This entire thread or at least 30 of 41 (42?) pages has been nothing but disappointment & sadness: And I’ve come to realize that me commenting on other people’s posts to try and show them how & why this isn’t as bad as they’re making it out to be is really a wasted effort on my behalf.

that is simply not true 

this thread has many great jokes all made by ME

but in all seriousness not all of it sadness 

ive personally been able to get some great banter with people on this thread 

but yeah this thread sucks

[JoeW]

I have refrained from sending out warnings and doing much in the moderation of this thread so people can say what they need to say. I have dropped a few informal warnings to not attack each other, because that's where I have to draw the line. 

If you're angry fine. If you don't like it, fine. But you're not going to permitted to just act like a jerk to people because you disagree with a decision.

Everybody needs to be respectful and follow community standards. If you can't do that - just move on. Thanks. 

[viberr]

3 minutes ago, JoeW said:

I have refrained from sending out warnings and doing much in the moderation of this thread so people can say what they need to say. 

and for this i thank you 

ive been able to just say what i want without feeling like im going off topic and thats quite cool because i get to talk about what i like but in the end i still do try to make my reply about the matter at hand

so thanks for being relaxing about this situation 

[Smife]

1 hour ago, viberr said:

so then what was the reason for your comment?

Same reason you're here. The reason why this thread is still rolling. Also you're right about one thing, I've said enough here. Gonna check Spaced Out see what's new.

[viberr]

4 minutes ago, Smife said:

Same reason you're here.

to be funny?

 

4 minutes ago, Smife said:

I've said enough here. Gonna check Spaced Out see what's new.

alright cheers big man. hope you enjoy the game and don't think about tencent too much

[Chesmu]

56 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This entire thread or at least 30 of 41 (42?) pages has been nothing but disappointment & sadness: And I’ve come to realize that me commenting on other people’s posts to try and show them how & why this isn’t as bad as they’re making it out to be is really a wasted effort on my behalf.

I keep saying Tencent dominates like 70% of the gaming market, and that there’s hardly any game you can play that doesn’t involve Tencent in some way.. But it falls on deaf ears, people are going to complain: and at this point I think that maybe I should let them complain until they’ve worn themselves out & they either leave for good or Klei restores their faith with exciting announcements.

There is no in-between: If you say your never playing Klei’s games again but you stick around on their forums.. what are you even here for? Publicity? Attention? To continue to be upset over something you KNOW your opinions won’t change? Or are you really still here hoping Klei lives up to their word of showing through game content and what they plan to do next that their decision was the right choice?

There is no In-Between.

That's right, I'm here for the fun of it so no time wasted for me; It also helps improve my English to discuss different stuff.

Btw I'm still looking for a comment from disappointed Klei customers, that isn't all drama and repeated words, but something new and true to explain what this anger is all about.

[t0panka]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:12 PM, Bigfoot said:

Hello everyone!

What’s going to change? 

Why are we doing this?

Who is Tencent?

Why Tencent? 

How does this affect Klei games in China?
 

@Bigfoot so how about "What changes for our users?"

Because there is nothing mentioned in your post. Does this mean more updates? Bigger updates? More DLC? Updates for games that are dead already (maybe because you didnt have funding?) Bringing back community stuff like PUZZLES? Or something?

Or does this just mean more money for you and you continue as before? Because you obviously put something on the line except reputation and if the only gain is your full pockets then i was **fully** supporting the wrong company. I just want to know.

Maybe the answer already exists because you already made one "deal with devil" with Epic Games and is Griftlands because of that better? AFAIK you didnt say it is. Griftlands wouldnt exist without Epic money? 

It would be nice to hear what this mean for real and not just "This partnership helps us navigate a changing industry" which is just PR BS. The changing industry is full of microtransactions and YES Tencent is really good with milking people for more money

[Mike23Ua]

So uhh I been looking a lot into who Tencent even is, what they have shares into etc.. and I seriously don’t get how & why so many people are in an uproar with Klei-

When we start seeing negative changes that impact their games.. that’s when we should be upset, but until then maybe it wouldn’t hurt to have a little more faith in Klei’s capability to deliver what their fans want?

Heres a little taste of the “Movie side” of What Tencents been involved in.

Spoiler

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=mx4TYJfLC8zN_Abeq6P4Ag&q=tencent+productions+movies&oq=tencent+productions+&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBABGAAyAggAMgYIABAWEB4yBQgAEM0COggIABDqAhCPAToOCC4QsQMQxwEQowIQkwI6CAgAELEDEIMBOggILhDHARCjAjoLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6DgguELEDEMcBEK8BEJMCOg4ILhCxAxCDARDHARCjAjoICC4QsQMQgwE6CwguELEDEIMBEJMCOgUILhCxAzoFCAAQsQM6DQgAELEDEIMBEEYQ-gE6BQgAEMkDOgUIIRCgAVD_IlifdWCxgwFoAXAAeACAAYgBiAGRDJIBBDE5LjGYAQCgAQGwAQ8&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp#wgvs=e

Venom? King Kong.. WONDER WOMAN??! 

 

[Toros]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

This entire thread or at least 30 of 41 (42?) pages has been nothing but disappointment & sadness: And I’ve come to realize that me commenting on other people’s posts to try and show them how & why this isn’t as bad as they’re making it out to be is really a wasted effort on my behalf.

I keep saying Tencent dominates like 70% of the gaming market, and that there’s hardly any game you can play that doesn’t involve Tencent in some way.. But it falls on deaf ears, people are going to complain: and at this point I think that maybe I should let them complain until they’ve worn themselves out & they either leave for good or Klei restores their faith with exciting announcements.

There is no in-between: If you say your never playing Klei’s games again but you stick around on their forums.. what are you even here for? Publicity? Attention? To continue to be upset over something you KNOW your opinions won’t change? Or are you really still here hoping Klei lives up to their word of showing through game content and what they plan to do next that their decision was the right choice?

There is no In-Between.

If you’re not being convincing, it’s probably because you are full of poorly interpreted... let’s call them “non-facts” and making faith-based appeals.

I don’t have the time or interest to pick apart your posts, though you’ve expressed the same few sentiments repeatedly so far so what I will say will apply to a lot of it.

1) The core of your faith that things will not change is that they haven’t changed immediately.  This is an undeveloped take on the situation because if Tencent was going to throw their majority shares around, they’ll wait until after this initial drama calms down and slowly apply more and more pressure to exert change without causing additional panic in the playerbase.  This should be obvious.

2) Other people having less optimistic views shouldn’t stop because it makes you feel bad.  That is not an argument, and you have repeatedly expressed that you want negativity to stop because it makes you sad.  I hope your faith in Klei will eventually prove to be justified, but experience tells me that it isn’t reasonable at this time.

3) Avoiding Tencent and other developers I don’t want to support isn’t nearly as difficult as you make it out to be, and your perspective that “I can’t play video games without supporting companies with unethical practices” is defeatist.

Playing video games is an optional activity, and your argument only holds water if applied to food producers, where it might be difficult or impossible based on your budget to consume from ethical companies.

I’ve spent a fair amount of money on Klei games over the 8+ years I’ve been a customer, and I often bought seasonal skin packs because throwing a couple dollars to Klei for a game I’ve gotten many hours of entertainment from is a lot more cost efficient than most options.

But they’re not getting another dollar from me until they’ve proven that they are not under Tencent’s thumb because right now it looks like they sold out, and I’ve seen a lot of companies sell out and they always change for the worse because corporations want to maximize profits and as you’re demonstrating you don’t need to treat consumers that well to keep them coming back.

[W0l0l0]

16 minutes ago, Toros said:

Other people having less optimistic views shouldn’t stop because it makes you feel bad.  That is not an argument, and you have repeatedly expressed that you want negativity to stop because it makes you sad.  I hope your faith in Klei will eventually prove to be justified, but experience tells me that it isn’t reasonable at this time

I really do hope we're all wrong and @Mike23Ua is right, but Torus is right here as well. Many people here have seen it all go down before. Optimism will only disappoint you (I'm not saying be miserable, but don't expect things to stay perfect).

That being said, while I appreciate your point of view, telling everyone over and over to calm down is unfortunately trying to put out a fire you can't handle. Again, I really hope we're wrong, for the sake of Klei, but the future may be grim, and I avoid commenting on this thread altogether.

[Machine Reaper]

@JoeW your guidelines and principals are now Tencent's,

Good luck following them no matter how bad they end up for all you guys : )

[SkylordElberich]

Me for the last couple of pages:

 

[Chesmu]

1 hour ago, t0panka said:

@Bigfoot so how about "What changes for our users?"

Because there is nothing mentioned in your post. Does this mean more updates? Bigger updates? More DLC? Updates for games that are dead already (maybe because you didnt have funding?) Bringing back community stuff like PUZZLES? Or something?

Or does this just mean more money for you and you continue as before? Because you obviously put something on the line except reputation and if the only gain is your full pockets then i was **fully** supporting the wrong company. I just want to know.

Maybe the answer already exists because you already made one "deal with devil" with Epic Games and is Griftlands because of that better? AFAIK you didnt say it is. Griftlands wouldnt exist without Epic money? 

It would be nice to hear what this mean for real and not just "This partnership helps us navigate a changing industry" which is just PR BS. The changing industry is full of microtransactions and YES Tencent is really good with milking people for more money

See this is what I mean, everyone is really mad about the same stuff, including Epic Games! I saw users bullying them at Steam reviews, like it's a rival soccer team or something.

In your post I sense passive aggressiveness, not to add more to it or judge it, but one reason you and many others, including myself (before) get mad and emotional about gaming companies, is because we look at them as persons, and individuals! Not to be rude, but it's like we are the wives and the companies are our husbands that just got a fat paycheck but not paying us any of it.

That's when I started thinking, why does it bother me if their pocket is full? that means they can take the harsh and strict new age economy, and progress in it, making the game I play in my cozy house even better and keeping it alive.

I admit my business wouldn't survive at current economic system; I consider it talent to be creative, not get broke, and actually progress at this date.

44 minutes ago, Toros said:

If you’re not being convincing, it’s probably because you are full of poorly interpreted... let’s call them “non-facts” and making faith-based appeals.

I don’t have the time or interest to pick apart your posts, though you’ve expressed the same few sentiments repeatedly so far so what I will say will apply to a lot of it.

1) The core of your faith that things will not change is that they haven’t changed immediately.  This is an undeveloped take on the situation because if Tencent was going to throw their majority shares around, they’ll wait until after this initial drama calms down and slowly apply more and more pressure to exert change without causing additional panic in the playerbase.  This should be obvious.

2) Other people having less optimistic views shouldn’t stop because it makes you feel bad.  That is not an argument, and you have repeatedly expressed that you want negativity to stop because it makes you sad.  I hope your faith in Klei will eventually prove to be justified, but experience tells me that it isn’t reasonable at this time.

3) Avoiding Tencent and other developers I don’t want to support isn’t nearly as difficult as you make it out to be, and your perspective that “I can’t play video games without supporting companies with unethical practices” is defeatist.

Playing video games is an optional activity, and your argument only holds water if applied to food producers, where it might be difficult or impossible based on your budget to consume from ethical companies.

I’ve spent a fair amount of money on Klei games over the 8+ years I’ve been a customer, and I often bought seasonal skin packs because throwing a couple dollars to Klei for a game I’ve gotten many hours of entertainment from is a lot more cost efficient than most options.

But they’re not getting another dollar from me until they’ve proven that they are not under Tencent’s thumb because right now it looks like they sold out, and I’ve seen a lot of companies sell out and they always change for the worse because corporations want to maximize profits and as you’re demonstrating you don’t need to treat consumers that well to keep them coming back.

1) You call it faith, I call it realism! If things haven't changed recently, nor announced that way, then they are not. Yes, I will scream and run when my house is on fire, but why freak out when I'm not going to BBQ in a week? In my opinion it's better to live at the moment and be realist than to be paranoid and constantly worry about what "Might" happen, without any evidence.

2) It is not negativity that should stop, but the misinformation and worrying without a reason; Imagine such a person in real life, could you live with them in a single house? They constantly ask you question like: Do you think Climate change will end our world? do you think we will get to see Sun burning out? and similar subjects. Considering a lot of people living at forums, including myself, that is the feeling we get.

3) They don't mean you literally can't, they mean it is impossible to hit the launch button / press play of the games and not be supportive of those companies and what they do. (This one was a little bit of wordplay that I solved for you.)

You totally have right not to play any game or spend money on them; Nothing wrong with that.

 

[t0panka]

29 minutes ago, Chesmu said:

See this is what I mean, everyone is really mad about the same stuff, including Epic Games! I saw users bullying them at Steam reviews, like it's a rival soccer team or something.

I actually like that Epic games made their store and Steam has some real competition. Exclusivity is crap but its timed so it doesnt hurt so much. Steam being basically monopoly isnt good for anyone. I was just pointing out that Klei got tons of money for this exclusivity deal which wasnt user friendly one bit

29 minutes ago, Chesmu said:

In your post I sense passive aggressiveness, not to add more to it or judge it, but one reason you and many others, including myself (before) get mad and emotional about gaming companies, is because we look at them as persons, and individuals! Not to be rude, but it's like we are the wives and the companies are our husbands that just got a fat paycheck but not paying us any of it.

Not to add more? I actually added more and you completely ignore it. We already have more than enough examples how company went from user friendly to user crappy because of some acquisition. Not just gaming companies but i saw it with several app/software companies too. I just wanted to know if "signing with devil" actually brings something to users and not just fill Klei pockets. I also mentioned their previous deals and they got huge paychecks and we get middle finger. Just one example because of their crappy exclusivity deal with Apple i bought Hot Lava on Steam and Klei promised beta with macOS version too (like every other game they made) and now its locked behind Apple Arcade subscription and i cant play my copy of the game. This one looks like is not timed (since Klei is quiet about this which is again not user friendly) 

29 minutes ago, Chesmu said:

That's when I started thinking, why does it bother me if their pocket is full? that means they can take the harsh and strict new age economy, and progress in it, making the game I play in my cozy house even better and keeping it alive.

Lol i want Klei to be successful but im not their open wallet. I made post in first 10 pages where i explained that i actually fully supported Klei to this date. I have all their games several times, all art, all soundtracks, everything they released, multiple plushies and i also had 100% of the skins they released. I put more than healthy amount into Klei because i believed in this company because they were user friendly and not another cancer company milking everything from their users and doesnt even bring new content like we see these days with popular games. Take ActiBlizz for example ... they swim in money and Klei made more updates in 6 months to their games than Acti made in 2 years and they are making billions just from crappy skins. Come one man i dont mind them making that money but if users wont get almost anything back i dont want to support them at all

29 minutes ago, Chesmu said:

I admit my business wouldn't survive at current economic system; I consider it talent to be creative, not get broke, and actually progress at this date.

This argument i love it. So they made Apple deal, ok, then they made Epic deal, well crap but ok, now they get bought and thats majority of Klei so what is next? Next is sucking users dry to get more money. All i want to know if this is our future so i dont need to waste my time here

All we got is PR crap all companies make every time this happens. ALL COMPANIES. I thought Klei is different (naively so maybe) so i wanted some extra info about all this. I dont think its that much to ask is it?

[JoeW]

2 hours ago, t0panka said:

It would be nice to hear what this mean for real and not just "This partnership helps us navigate a changing industry" which is just PR BS. The changing industry is full of microtransactions and YES Tencent is really good with milking people for more money

I'm not going to go into the ins and outs of how the game industry works, but it shouldn't be hard to understand that being an independent studio is hard and unpredictable. Ultimately the decision was made because that's what was decided was best for the studio to keep doing what we do.

If people think we're going to just up and start doing all kinds of crazy stuff despite what we said, we can't really do much about that except do what we said we were going to do.

Our priority is and always has been our players and our employees. As far as what changes for the players. I do think that was covered. We're going to keep doing what we do, the way that we do it. We would like to do more, but we're also not going to suddenly increase the studio size or changing the scope of our projects.

[Chesmu]

36 minutes ago, t0panka said:

Lol i want Klei to be successful but im not their open wallet. I made post in first 10 pages where i explained that i actually fully supported Klei to this date. I have all their games several times, all art, all soundtracks, everything they released, multiple plushies and i also had 100% of the skins they released. I put more than healthy amount into Klei because i believed in this company because they were user friendly and not another cancer company milking everything from their users and doesnt even bring new content like we see these days with popular games.

Now this is where your point completely sinks my friend, you didn't just give those money for Klei, it's not like giving a homeless some money! You gave them money, and in return you got soundtracks, listened to them and had fun, you got the merch that made your room look good, and the skins that made your character look good while gaming.

You put money and time in this "Game", and had your fun in it, it's like you bought Pizza from a place, eat it, and a day later they close up and you complain about how much Pizza you ate there last night!

TLDR: Traded Money + Energy , Received fun. If you can't do the same now for any reason, you just lose the potential fun you could have now, so no need to bring the old trades up. 

36 minutes ago, t0panka said:

All i want to know if this is our future so i dont need to waste my time here

We can't know the future; What wastes time is worrying about something that isn't happened.

Not to rush you in your decision, what needs to be done in this case is to not buy anything for now if you are not comfortable, and buy when you are.

Since you didn't subscribe for monthly stuff like in some games, nothing is lost.

[t0panka]

17 minutes ago, JoeW said:

I'm not going to go into the ins and outs of how the game industry works, but it shouldn't be hard to understand that being an independent studio is hard and unpredictable. Ultimately the decision was made because that's what was decided was best for the studio to keep doing what we do.

If people think we're going to just up and start doing all kinds of crazy stuff despite what we said, we can't really do much about that except do what we said we were going to do.

Our priority is and always has been our players and our employees. As far as what changes for the players. I do think that was covered. We're going to keep doing what we do, the way that we do it. We would like to do more, but we're also not going to suddenly increase the studio size or changing the scope of our projects.

JoeW thanks for answer i appreciate that

Lets be honest here tho. You dont need to explain to me how stuff works i have my own business too and there are more ways how to do stuff (you have been doing them better than other for long time). You working especially in this industry know what im talking about when companies make this kind of deal and what comes next. I always saw "we wont change" but that is basically impossible since majority of your shares changed and it is expected to make more money from your investors. This is a fact

Since you said you wont be going bigger and keep doing what you are doing then in my "calculator" that equals only to make stuff more expensive or get money trough other means which is more microtransactions and less updates

Most importantly i WOULD believe you if it was some time ago but i have been burned even from you guys couple times before. 

• you said Hot Lava will be on steam for macOS (like every game you made) but that was a lie and i didnt even get answer how this Apple Arcade works from you guys when i asked
• you said your IP is your IP and now we have some to me very very bad version of DST on mobile for chinese
• at that time you said dont worry its just this and just for chinese and nothing will change for us here and BAM Tencent "owns you"

Before this i would believe you since i think you know me and i was HUGE fan of yours. Now i have very very little hope

11 minutes ago, Chesmu said:

Now this is where your point completely sinks my friend, you didn't just give those money for Klei, it's not like giving a homeless some money! You gave them money, and in return you got soundtracks, listened to them and had fun, you got the merch that made your room look good, and the skins that made your character look good while gaming.

Now this is where you are wrong my friend

I bough several stuff from Klei ONLY to support them. I bought their games multiple times over, I never played any of the soundtracks, i never used 95% of skins, i didnt even play Invisible Inc. because its not my kind of game but i bought it with DLC and everything. Im never ever gonna play Griftlands because i hate those kind of games but it was Klei so i supported them. And you are new here but i made other crazy stuff just to support Klei in the past

[Chesmu]

3 minutes ago, t0panka said:

 I always saw "we wont change" but that is basically impossible since majority of your shares changed and it is expected to make more money from your investors. This is a fact

 

So the Founder itself comes here explaining, assuring you, but you call the man a liar in face and add a period to it. What else can be done now I'm curious, do we deserve apologies? mass refunds?

Please note that I'm not trying to pressure you t0panka, this is really interesting for me that sometimes we just want to feel betrayed and enjoy it; I did that a lot during some point in my life.

[t0panka]

18 minutes ago, Chesmu said:

So the Founder itself comes here explaining, assuring you, but you call the man a liar in face and add a period to it. What else can be done now I'm curious, do we deserve apologies? mass refunds?

Please note that I'm not trying to pressure you t0panka, this is really interesting for me that sometimes we just want to feel betrayed and enjoy it; I did that a lot during some point in my life.

Either reply to my whole comment or stop making snippets from what i wrote. Answers you are looking for are in the same comment you quote me from. Im not asking for apology (lol) or refunds and if you took my comment listing what i bought from them that is not the point. The point is im not here first year and that i supported them through good and bad times. Most of the time there was more info and that is what i was looking for. I already know the evil side of things (from experience) and i was looking (and hoping) for the good side of things if there is some. JoeW provided something so im ok now

And also what else was here to do from the Founder. I was pointing this out that lots of founders made those claims and we got slapped after. What do you think he would wrote "We got bought by Tencent and we need to make more money so expect in couple months more micro transactions and less content updates"? I already made some examples where they said something but it changed ... because of money. But i guess you are right there is nothing they can say (legally) so this is pointless

[Toros]

1 hour ago, Chesmu said:

1) You call it faith, I call it realism! If things haven't changed recently, nor announced that way, then they are not. Yes, I will scream and run when my house is on fire, but why freak out when I'm not going to BBQ in a week? In my opinion it's better to live at the moment and be realist than to be paranoid and constantly worry about what "Might" happen, without any evidence.

2) It is not negativity that should stop, but the misinformation and worrying without a reason; Imagine such a person in real life, could you live with them in a single house? They constantly ask you question like: Do you think Climate change will end our world? do you think we will get to see Sun burning out? and similar subjects. Considering a lot of people living at forums, including myself, that is the feeling we get.

3) They don't mean you literally can't, they mean it is impossible to hit the launch button / press play of the games and not be supportive of those companies and what they do. (This one was a little bit of wordplay that I solved for you.)

You totally have right not to play any game or spend money on them; Nothing wrong with that.

1) This is nonsense.  Realism is recognizing that causes lead to effects.  Do you not have smoke alarms because your house is not on fire right now?  That is the argument you're making.  It's not paranoid to have foresight, you being unable to see what I see is your limitation.

2) None of this is "worrying without a reason."  Tencent has a history of anti-consumer practices and massively dwarfs Klei in size and budget.  There's a massive power imbalance when a company has majority shares and when that company has a history of anti-consumer actions there are excellent reasons to worry.  Again, you not understanding the context doesn't mean other people also don't understand it.  I understand and reject your position for the same reasons I reject Mike's as unreasonable given what we know.

3) Hyperbole is not how you craft a reasonable argument.  There are many developers who are not owned in part by Tencent, and many, many more that are not majority owned by Tencent.  Even if that was the case, not playing video games that enrich demonstrably unethical companies is always an option.  You're moving the goalposts to a place that doesn't exist.  He said it was impossible, I said not only was it not impossible, it's not even difficult to avoid supporting Tencent.

25 minutes ago, JoeW said:

I'm not going to go into the ins and outs of how the game industry works, but it shouldn't be hard to understand that being an independent studio is hard and unpredictable. Ultimately the decision was made because that's what was decided was best for the studio to keep doing what we do.

If people think we're going to just up and start doing all kinds of crazy stuff despite what we said, we can't really do much about that except do what we said we were going to do.

Our priority is and always has been our players and our employees. As far as what changes for the players. I do think that was covered. We're going to keep doing what we do, the way that we do it. We would like to do more, but we're also not going to suddenly increase the studio size or changing the scope of our projects.

As a consumer I appreciate this information but from reading this it sounds like Klei has given up their autonomy and won't be able to grow as a company or accomplish goals they weren't already on pace to accomplish.  The assumption some people have made is that with Tencent backing Klei will be able to do more for their customers they otherwise wouldn't, instead of business as usual but without legal autonomy.

[Chesmu]

9 minutes ago, Toros said:

1) This is nonsense.  Realism is recognizing that causes lead to effects.  Do you not have smoke alarms because your house is not on fire right now?  That is the argument you're making.  It's not paranoid to have foresight, you being unable to see what I see is your limitation.

2) None of this is "worrying without a reason."  Tencent has a history of anti-consumer practices and massively dwarfs Klei in size and budget.  There's a massive power imbalance when a company has majority shares and when that company has a history of anti-consumer actions there are excellent reasons to worry.  Again, you not understanding the context doesn't mean other people also don't understand it.  I understand and reject your position for the same reasons I reject Mike's as unreasonable given what we know.

3) Hyperbole is not how you craft a reasonable argument.  There are many developers who are not owned in part by Tencent, and many, many more that are not majority owned by Tencent.  Even if that was the case, not playing video games that enrich demonstrably unethical companies is always an option.  You're moving the goalposts to a place that doesn't exist.  He said it was impossible, I said not only was it not impossible, it's not even difficult to avoid supporting Tencent.

 

1) Realism is being real, simple as that. I have smoke alarms so I can stop worrying about fire! Otherwise why bother; Good thing about that, I had a reason and evidence to install it.

2) So we are back to Tencent's horrible history of things they don't do; You have 100% right to not play games you don't want to or spend on them, but I personally never ever accuse individuals and companies of terrible things without having any evidence;

But if I do have evidence:

3) I will also do the same for other similar individuals and companies, if my only reason for all this is being "Ethical". That's where it gets difficult to even open the Internet.

[Toros]

19 minutes ago, Chesmu said:

1) Realism is being real, simple as that. 

I stopped reading here because it's clear you're either unable or unwilling to have a meaningful discussion.  I assume you're ok with me mentioning you in the future if I have definitive evidence you were wrong?