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I Want Disease Back


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13 hours ago, zarklord_klei said:

We had even discussed how to possibly make it an interesting mechanic, but we couldn't come up with any ideas that didn't result in a complete overhaul of how disease worked (and therefore behaved and acted completely differently.), because of that, we removed the bad mechanic.

Were there any ideas from the team that you thought was interesting? I'm sorry that it's kind of offtopic, but stuff like that is super cool to me.

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Do my eyes deceive me? Or am I going insane??? Some of you guys want a punishing mechanic back for the sake of being punished? Please for the love of god do not bring disease or anything of that nature back ever. Not sure where this "feed back" of wanting disease is coming from but surely it is a loud MINORITY. EVERY Youtuber, streamer, and person I've played with has always, ALWAYS turned to grass geckos or twiggy trees at some point. Why bring back something that has a very, very clear superior choice? For what purpose? How does it improve the game experience. Im so glad some of you are not developers of this game because "I want it back even if its unchanged. I want it." Is a very selfish way of enforcing your play style  on  thousands of gamers for no reason other than your masochistic needs. If you need punishment bang your head on brick wall. You have to consider every play style before changing fundamental mechanics in the game. I for one enjoy fighting in this game like raiding the ruin, fighting bosses, etc I do not want to be playing farming simulator. I do not want to have to be constantly managing resources for the sake of managing resources. The new farming overhaul is great because those who want to ignore it can. 

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3 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

 

World editing will still existing if you dont want a mechanic in your world

It was a good mechanic because in a survival game has little sense to be able to have all the basic resources in a safe place without punish since the day you plant them forever

Ofc, nothing tedious like the old one

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3 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Is a very selfish way of enforcing your play style  on  thousands of gamers for no reason other than your masochistic needs. If you need punishment bang your head on brick wall. You have to consider every play style before changing fundamental mechanics in the game.

It is interesting that you say the first sentence and then immediately follow it up with the next two sentences.

you have to consider EVERY Play style before changing fundamental mechanics in the game.

Every playstyle includes those players who want an uncompromising highly punishing gameplay experience.

And more importantly: As long as Klei chooses not to remove disease from single player don’t starve or make THAT game any easier then its sequel DST shouldn’t suddenly become the less forgiving mostly peaceful version of DS. Your playing a game franchise that started off as fairly brutal and mostly punishing, & it should maintain its roots for the players who ENJOYED that- even if they make the entire game easier as a whole to appeal to more players, They still need to offer a mode with DS single player and its two DLC’s level of difficulty.

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3 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

World editing will still existing if you dont want a mechanic in your world

It was a good mechanic because in a survival game has little sense to be able to have all the basic resources in a safe place without punish since the day you plant them forever

Ofc, nothing tedious like the old one

Except I wouldn't be able to edit my world. How would I edit my current 800 day world on ps4?

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

It is interesting that you say the first sentence and then immediately follow it up with the next two sentences.

you have to consider EVERY Play style before changing fundamental mechanics in the game.

Every playstyle includes those players who want an uncompromising highly punishing gameplay experience.

And more importantly: As long as Klei chooses not to remove disease from single player don’t starve or make THAT game any easier then its sequel DST shouldn’t suddenly become the less forgiving mostly peaceful version of DS. Your playing a game franchise that started off as fairly brutal and mostly punishing, & it should maintain its roots for the players who ENJOYED that- even if they make the entire game easier as a whole to appeal to more players, They still need to offer a mode with DS single player and its two DLC’s level of difficulty.

Single player dosent have diseases? I think you missed the point of what I said. If you want a more punishing game you can do that already in the world customization settings. However a default world should be accessible to all and to be clear difficulty is not a play style it is amore of a mode. But back to my point, cumbersome mechanics that force players to their bases should be unleashed by the player. So others can chose to ignore it if they wish, say, a pandoras box you dont want to open. 

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I had hoped when you got a definitive response from a developer it would end this discussion.  Yet it still continues with impressive arrogance for amateurs to assume they know better than professionals.

The consistency some of you demonstrate despite the obvious facts about the situation is also impressive. Mike had his standard speech complete with mechanical misunderstandings completely uninterrupted.

The facts of the matter are:

1) Disease was a wildly unpopular mechanic

2) It was from a design perspective, a mechanic that had negative value

3) It was already replaced thematically with weeds and lord of the flies

4) Developer time is limited and should be spent on the many more value-adding things Klei has planned like new content and character refreshes

5) FOMO is a terrible reason to keep a bad mechanic, and all your arguments either boil down to FOMO or don’t consider the value of dev time.  
 

Klei, a team of people who develop this game professionally, already considered how to fix disease and couldn’t come up with a solution (or at least a solution better than simply removing the mechanic).

Do as Elsa does and Let It Go.

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3 hours ago, Toros said:

I had hoped when you got a definitive response from a developer it would end this discussion.  Yet it still continues with impressive arrogance for amateurs to assume they know better than professionals.

The consistency some of you demonstrate despite the obvious facts about the situation is also impressive. Mike had his standard speech complete with mechanical misunderstandings completely uninterrupted.

The facts of the matter are:

1) Disease was a wildly unpopular mechanic

2) It was from a design perspective, a mechanic that had negative value

3) It was already replaced thematically with weeds and lord of the flies

4) Developer time is limited and should be spent on the many more value-adding things Klei has planned like new content and character refreshes

5) FOMO is a terrible reason to keep a bad mechanic, and all your arguments either boil down to FOMO or don’t consider the value of dev time.  
 

Klei, a team of people who develop this game professionally, already considered how to fix disease and couldn’t come up with a solution (or at least a solution better than simply removing the mechanic).

Do as Elsa does and Let It Go.

What does fomo stand for? Sorry if its plainly obvious. 

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I liked the idea of disease, makes things hostile and "dynamic", but I never really dug things up so didn't experience it much.

Forests grow, burn, cycle though ages and inevitably get knocked by Bearger. It'd be nice to see similarly dynamic behaviour with smaller plants when you say, replant every single existing berry bush into one group.

About whether disease as we knew it was good, I dunno, like I said I didn't really experience it. 

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21 minutes ago, W0l0l0 said:

About whether disease as we knew it was good, I dunno, like I said I didn't really experience it. 

It wasn’t, which is why it was opted by Klei to be removed- But I am hoping that someday they will revisit the concept intentions they had set out for with Disease and make it something more dynamic, impactful and overall more challenging/fun.

Even if it’s entirely optional: Some people’s Idea of fun IS to be challenged, so let’s just try not to forget that. :love_heart:

(it’s funny how I see tons of nerf suggestions for Wicker & Wendy but when it comes to suggestions for truly uncompromising features such as what Disease could be improved to become- people instead throw parties that Disease is gone, rather than discussing ways to make it more dynamic/impactful/challenging.)

Personally I hope they create something new and unique- rather than bringing back old disease, make something that replaces it- 

Sensitive personal stuff in spoiler that may or may not be relevant or appropriate: (if it’s not hopefully JoeW will inform me and I will gladly remove it)

Spoiler

I understand where some of you guys  coming from with how the world is now and how disease in your game may be the last thing you want to see. But as someone who enjoys Zombie games I was one of the last people to see my grandfather alive, he came down really bad sick with throat and lung cancer, he started to wilt away unable to eat anything and just lay in bed until he passed away back in March 2012: it took me a year or so to ever feel comfortable playing a zombie game EVER again after that because what he looked like in his last hours just stuck in my head (and still does to this very day) but then I suddenly realized that if I shut myself down to Zombie related Media: That I wouldn’t have very many movies, or games left to play. So you can’t just remove sensitive content because it’s sensitive to some, if you find it fun (like I find zombie games to be fun) you will endure any personal real world sensitivities to the game content & enjoy it. And if you don’t find it as fun- you shut yourself off to it or in DSTs case: Toggle it off so it doesn’t bother you. :)

 

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17 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

of enforcing your play style  on  thousands of gamers for no reason other than your masochistic needs.

You were able to turn it off. There is no forcing or enforcing. You had the option.

17 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

but surely it is a loud MINORITY

Irrelevant to the thread, but: It's 2020. If a minority is loud, you should consider that they might have been underrepresented.

17 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

MINORITY

There is lots of discussion around disease, many say it should be removed, and many suggested their versions of fixes. That means many people do want a better version of it. You are calling minority "selfish" just to get their voice out? I think you are selfish for doing that. It's only a voice. And it doesn't hurt you cuz you always had the option to turn the punishing mech off.

 

8 hours ago, Toros said:

1) Disease was a wildly unpopular mechanic

2) It was from a design perspective, a mechanic that had negative value

3) It was already replaced thematically with weeds and lord of the flies

4) Developer time is limited and should be spent on the many more value-adding things Klei has planned like new content and character refreshes

5) FOMO is a terrible reason to keep a bad mechanic, and all your arguments either boil down to FOMO or don’t consider the value of dev time.  

Partially agree.

1),2). As I mentioned in OP, ye, it wasn't liked, not even by me.

3) "replace" is not the right word. If I don't play farming, which is really optional, then I don't have fruitflies or anything to replace disease, or more accurately, some playable features similar to disease.

4)5) Yes that's true. They are all valid points in terms of game design and time management. But I'm just getting my voice out. I purposefully used the language "I want ...", "I want...", rather than "dev should do blablabla". I'm not asking like this is absolutely what they should do (or first), I'm simply telling what I want and the reasons behind it, and leave it for devs to judge. You can not veto my voice just because of bad game design, just like you can not tell a fat person to not eat sugar cuz it's unhealthy. More coke, more dessert, more sugary breakfast pls. But you can opt out, turn it off, IF it really happens. Just metaphors. You perception of other people being arrogant for continuing the discusion, probably indicates your own arrogance. Btw, I didn't join the non-"professional", "amatuers" discussion. But I don't like your attitude towards them.

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19 minutes ago, goatt said:

You were able to turn it off. There is no forcing or enforcing. You had the option.

Irrelevant to the thread, but: It's 2020. If a minority is loud, you should consider that they might have been underrepresented.

There is lots of discussion around disease, many say it should be removed, and many suggested their versions of fixes. That means many people do want a better version of it. You are calling minority "selfish" just to get their voice out? I think you are selfish for doing that. It's only a voice. And it doesn't hurt you cuz you always had the option to turn the punishing mech off.

 

Partially agree.

1),2). As I mentioned in OP, ye, it wasn't liked, not even by me.

3) "replace" is not the right word. If I don't play farming, which is really optional, then I don't have fruitflies or anything to replace disease, or more accurately, some playable features similar to disease.

4)5) Yes that's true. They are all valid points in terms of game design and time management. But I'm just getting my voice out. I purposefully used the language "I want ...", "I want...", rather than "dev should do blablabla". I'm not asking like this is absolutely what they should do (or first), I'm simply telling what I want and the reasons behind it, and leave it for devs to judge. You can not veto my voice just because of bad game design, just like you can not tell a fat person to not eat sugar cuz it's unhealthy. More coke, more dessert, more sugary breakfast pls. But you can opt out, turn it off, IF it really happens. Just metaphors. You perception of other people being arrogant for continuing the discusion, probably indicates your own arrogance. Btw, I didn't join the non-"professional", "amatuers" discussion. But I don't like your attitude towards them.

I cant turn it off if I have a current world which I do. You cant customize world setting after its been created. Also, I lm on ps4 were mods dont exist which is why I am so opposed to it.

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11 minutes ago, goatt said:

Btw, I didn't join the non-"professional", "amatuers" discussion. But I don't like your attitude towards them.

Judging by how their response was structured (The syntax somewhat confused me as well until I gave their post another close read), Toros was referring to the developers as the professionals in that instance.

Anyways, as a general response, I did not like disease as a mechanic and it was nothing fun or special to play against. Anytime I played with my friends, the option was turned off due to no one in my group of friends finding the mechanic fun to play against.

Toros already outlined everything about the mechanic and how it was replaced thematically with the flies and their Lord. You also acknowledged in your post that it was a bad mechanic.

15 minutes ago, goatt said:

You can not veto my voice just because of bad game design

But we can point out how the mechanic was essentially replaced with a subjectively superior alternative and can voice how we do not wish for it to come back in a manner following the forum rules. We're allowed to disagree with your viewpoint in a constructive manner. Also, please find a better metaphor. With it as it is now, it barely makes any sense and moreso implies that you cannot help someone who isn't willing to help themselves.

If the developers are still reading this thread, please do not bring back disease. The latest update dealt with it appropriately and replaced it with a far better alternative of having to keep a close eye on crops.

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1 minute ago, HowlVoid said:

I cant turn it off if I have a current world which I do. You cant customize world setting after its been created. Also, I lm on ps4 were mods dont exist which is why I am so opposed to it.

I’m on Xbox and you COULD turn it off prior to hosting a world (you can’t change settings after creating a world because of how exploitive such a feature would be) But you could turn it off prior to starting a world: That was entirely a thing you didn’t need mods to do.

In fact there are world Gen presets you can select that changes those things for you to Klei’s personally chosen choices for that Pre-Set.

I suppose they can add stuff to the game but instead of having it toggled ON by Default instead have it toggled OFF so players can turn it on for themselves.

Just like how a small but highly vocal minority of players got Klei to discontinue creating Lunar Moon Horror mobs- I don’t think Anyone would’ve had a problem with them if they were OFF by Default and could be opt’d into turning ON later.

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13 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’m on Xbox and you COULD turn it off prior to hosting a world (you can’t change settings after creating a world because of how exploitive such a feature would be) But you could turn it off prior to starting a world: That was entirely a thing you didn’t need mods to do.

In fact there are world Gen presets you can select that changes those things for you to Klei’s personally chosen choices for that Pre-Set.

I suppose they can add stuff to the game but instead of having it toggled ON by Default instead have it toggled OFF so players can turn it on for themselves.

Just like how a small but highly vocal minority of players got Klei to discontinue creating Lunar Moon Horror mobs- I don’t think Anyone would’ve had a problem with them if they were OFF by Default and could be opt’d into turning ON later.

Yes I know. I specifically said a current world. Ive worked very hard to keep my current 890 day world and have done everything to prevent accidental deaths. I dont want to have to start over just to turn a feature off. 

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21 hours ago, TheKingDedede said:

Judging by how their response was structured (The syntax somewhat confused me as well until I gave their post another close read), Toros was referring to the developers as the professionals in that instance.

Yes. Their response was structured, had good valid points. When I said those things in my previous reply, I did mean it. The professional was referred to the devs, so non professional and amateurs are people other than devs including you and me. Toro said there should be nothing left to debate after the dev’s response, and people who continued the discussion after the professional’s response “think they know better than the professional” and were “arrogant”. That’s the part I was referring to.

 

21 hours ago, TheKingDedede said:

no one in my group of friends finding the mechanic fun to play against.

Good response, I’m totally with you, totally, entirely, 99.9%. 0.1% difference cuz we are different people we might think slightly differently. But ye I’m with you.

 

21 hours ago, TheKingDedede said:

please find a better metaphor.

I spent a good 15 min coming up with a better metaphor, and I gave up, when I was posting original comments because I also know it’s not too good. I was talking about everyone has freedom to speech and should not be called arrogant. If you can help me find a better metaphor, I’m all ears. But now I’m saying it explicitly, I hope you can understand.

 

21 hours ago, TheKingDedede said:

can voice how we do not wish for it to come back in a manner following the forum rules.

Of course you can. But what if I comment this by saying “oh it’s selfish and arrogant for you to say such thing”, how would you feel? I’m all for voice your voice, and a nice discussion. You can criticize the voice, but one should not attack the PERSON who’s giving the voice. Also, there’s something else I had strong gut feeling against. I’ve spent good 15 min trying to describe it but can’t find good words. But I’ll try. The devs didn’t say you guys should stop the discussion, but he then basically said the devs had given you responses and you should stop, like he’s representative of the devs. He gave reasons like he was in the dev team and invalidate others’ voice by basically saying “I know better so you better listen to me”, which is disguised in the form of talking about game mechanics and bad designs.
 

Personal note: I was debating very hard whether or not I should post my previous comment, because i wasn’t part of the discussion, and also it wasn’t really a big thing. I am usually careful not to post anything controversial. I usually post something when I know majority will agree to it beforehand. But this time, I post this cuz for one, he was making me uncomfortable, and I decided to try posting something more risky, but genuine and true to myself. Everyone should have the freedom to their voices, I view it very important. So I came out to protect it. That’s what I was doing, or at least I think what I’m doing. 

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On 12/28/2020 at 1:12 AM, goatt said:

Edit: If many people don't like the old disease but we only can have the old disease, at least give me the option to turn it on (and off for others).

Same argument can be made for old farms (yes, personally am still salty about removal of those resources as were nice aesthetic/decorative elements and had a simple "set-once-and-forget-about" approach in relation to their totally passive way of growing crops and forever maintaining them on plot if not picked): why remove an old, established mechanic/asset if some people (I reckon a hefty number reading Steam comments for "Reap What You Sow" update) desired it be kept and/or the Status Quo bias was at play - as almost always is. For the better?! Debatable. Fact of matter is vast majority of people complained about disease with valid arguments - as you can see in this thread as well, time-and-again. Some complained in past on these forums about old farms too, more-so after Gorge came as an event with new, fun, plot-farming mechanics - albeit in smaller numbers. Now the situation is what it is, as KLei probably had their reasons for doing what they did in the manner they chose to do it. C'est la vie. It was a bit interesting to try circumventing old disease by way of alternative resources (Twiggy Trees, Grass Gekkos farms, Kelp Fronds and Stone Fruit Sproutings), still it was a tedious/dull mechanic to shovel again-and-again if going with transplanted plants, one that could punish severely if playing pubs or just plain forgetting - this was pretty much the consensus. Not to mention the decorative aspect for transplanted plants subjected to old disease - lacking in the Sandbox mega-basing department viability.

I suppose in future more revamping of biomes in progressive manner will take place, where Survival end-game content will be elaborated upon (via making environment more dynamic - weather, season variants, evolving mobs etc) and then the disease feature may be revisited/revised - because, as you yourself stated op, now transplanted plants are free of penalty - and that in itself is a pretty powerful feature, even more if coupled with Wicker's books (Applied Silviculture the most). If one truly is in favor of strict mechanical balance all-around, one should consider transplanted plants penalty as well.

On a personal note I for one am ok-ish with current DST iteration. What complains I had and have are superfluous. Thus better get informed, and try to adapt your fun at new conditions. Disease will be gone for quite some time now.

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On 12/29/2020 at 7:43 PM, goatt said:

You were able to turn it off. There is no forcing or enforcing. You had the option.

Irrelevant to the thread, but: It's 2020. If a minority is loud, you should consider that they might have been underrepresented.

There is lots of discussion around disease, many say it should be removed, and many suggested their versions of fixes. That means many people do want a better version of it. You are calling minority "selfish" just to get their voice out? I think you are selfish for doing that. It's only a voice. And it doesn't hurt you cuz you always had the option to turn the punishing mech off.

 

Partially agree.

1),2). As I mentioned in OP, ye, it wasn't liked, not even by me.

3) "replace" is not the right word. If I don't play farming, which is really optional, then I don't have fruitflies or anything to replace disease, or more accurately, some playable features similar to disease.

4)5) Yes that's true. They are all valid points in terms of game design and time management. But I'm just getting my voice out. I purposefully used the language "I want ...", "I want...", rather than "dev should do blablabla". I'm not asking like this is absolutely what they should do (or first), I'm simply telling what I want and the reasons behind it, and leave it for devs to judge. You can not veto my voice just because of bad game design, just like you can not tell a fat person to not eat sugar cuz it's unhealthy. More coke, more dessert, more sugary breakfast pls. But you can opt out, turn it off, IF it really happens. Just metaphors. You perception of other people being arrogant for continuing the discusion, probably indicates your own arrogance. Btw, I didn't join the non-"professional", "amatuers" discussion. But I don't like your attitude towards them.

As far as your point 3, you do realize that people could also avoid disease via transplanting too, right?  Almost everyone bypassed playable "features" of disease either turning it off, using alternative resources, or using a shovel.  Either way it is an optional mechanic.  I'd cover the other points but you already agreed with me with all of them.

I'm not "vetoing your voice just because of bad game design."  You have an unconvincing argument for a poorly designed, unpopular mechanic that the devs (who we can assume are more informed on their process, game design, and resource allocation) have already considered and rejected.

I'm not saying you can't share your opinion, I'm saying that from a functional perspective it's pointless as the matter is settled and comes off like you know better than the devs.  That's not going to be a position people are going to react positively to you taking, especially when your argument is so unconvincing.

6 hours ago, goatt said:

Yes. Their response was structured, had good valid points. When I said those things in my previous reply, I did mean it. The professional was referred to the devs, so non professional and amateurs are people other than devs including you and me. Toro said there should be nothing left to debate after the dev’s response, and people who continued the discussion after the professional’s response “think they know better than the professional” and were “arrogant”. That’s the part I was referring to.

 

Good response, I’m totally with you, totally, entirely, 99.9%. 0.1% difference cuz we are different people we might think slightly differently. But ye I’m with you.

 

I spent a good 15 min coming up with a better metaphor, and I gave up, when I was posting original comments because I also know it’s not too good. I was talking about everyone has freedom to speech and should not be called arrogant. If you can help me find a better metaphor, I’m all ears. But now I’m saying it explicitly, I hope you can understand.

 

Of course you can. But what if I comment this by saying “oh it’s selfish and arrogant for you to say such thing”, how would you feel? I’m all for voice your voice, and a nice discussion. You can criticize the voice, but one should not attack the PERSON who’s giving the voice. Also, there’s something else I had strong gut feeling against. I’ve spent good 15 min trying to describe it but can’t find good words. But I’ll try. The devs didn’t say you guys should stop the discussion, but he then basically said the devs had given you responses and you should stop, like he’s representative of the devs. He gave reasons like he was in the dev team and invalidate others’ voice by basically saying “I know better so you better listen to me”, which is disguised in the form of talking about game mechanics and bad designs.
 

Personal note: I was debating very hard whether or not I should post my previous comment, because i wasn’t part of the discussion, and also it wasn’t really a big thing. I am usually careful not to post anything controversial. I usually post something when I know majority will agree to it beforehand. But this time, I post this cuz for one, he was making me uncomfortable, and I decided to try posting something more risky, but genuine and true to myself. Everyone should have the freedom to their voices, I view it very important. So I came out to protect it. That’s what I was doing, or at least I think what I’m doing. 

This is not a free speech issue because this is a moderated forum owned by a private company.  Anything we say is allowed at Klei's discretion.  Even if it was a "public" space free speech means you can say what you like without government punishment, it doesn't prevent people from forming negative opinions of you or expressing them (since that would in fact be their free speech) or personal consequences (say from an employer if you say something that reflects poorly on the company).

Your argument wasn't put together well, the devs considered and rejected reworking the mechanic, I don't see any reason to discuss it further.  I also don't understand why you've injected this personal hurt(?) information.  All it can do is create drama.

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@Toros @x0-VERSUS-1y First of all, Happy New Year! because the time I'm posting comments is around new year xD

You two have similar views, so I'll respond together.

First of all, I've always said the old disease wasn't liked, It was bad design, agony, but wanting it was my personal preference. Despite my preference which is I don't like how disease works, but I want something around the bushes and plants, I'm always upfront about its current state, which is bad. You guys have created many valid points, as I've mentioned before, they are valid, which is arguing against nothing I said, because I was with you the whole time. Because all I'm talking about is my preference, big letter I. I have no intention of reaching an agreement here, because I don't want you to agree with my preference, it fundamentally contradicts what you believe, and what I believe. It would be stupid.

I'm here just to express my attitude and feelings towards its removal after it's happened for a while now. I miss it. There is no game logic to it. You wanna make sense / nonsense of me missing it by telling me this is debatable? Please, separate my opinions apart from my desire. They are different things. My opinions are always that the old disease was bad. My desire is I want it back or some sort of it. And I don't think it hurts you, cuz it's just an option and an existing mechanism. You can ask the devs to turn it off by default on server creation menu. Again, I'm not forcing you to agree with me, there is no need and idc.

@Toros About the freedom of speech and company legal stuff, I know nothing about it. But my core idea is this. If you have the absolutely perfect idea, should I be following you? Should I think what you think because yours is better? I should want the same thing? Is talking about what I want a waste time? I believe your answers are yes to the questions above, as you have clearly showed it in your comments. But how I answer the questions above, it would be none of your business, not in an insulting way, but really, what I like has nothing to do with you, we just exchanged comments on the internet for several times, we are just strangers.

I don't get hurt by this, because my feeling is detached from my opinions. They belong to different domains. Opinions follow logic and creativity. My feelings depend on how involved I am. Apparently, I'm not so involved among strangers. And my opinions were always with yours. I am bothered, because I don't think it should happen, which is calling people arrogant for having further discussion of possibility and desire after the devs had given a solid and definitive response. So I pointed it out under my thread, which as you have mentioned, isn't really mine.

If all of this has so little to do with me, why do I spend my time on this? What initiated me was that it's my thread. Then I think I'll just leave a comment in the public space and let others to judge. I'm willing to do it cuz i think it's the right thing to do. At least I'd like to point it out so that the forum won't look too much like what bothered me, and so that I can like it more.

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