nakomaru Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 In the live branch, polluted water tiles would off-gas 0.1% of its mass per off-gassing event. This is now capped at 1kg per event. Although the events seems more frequent now, there is no way to make a contraption like this work to supply oxygen to your colony. With the 227 tons of water in this tile, it would preivously off-gas 227kg of oxygen at once. Now it can't support a single dupe. To make something like this work you will now need to build an array of tiles and make sure the gas is evacuated. Maybe this is not such a big deal, but that is now how it works. I'm not entirely sure if this wasn't an unintended side effect of balancing the swamp, so I have also posted it as a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulfe Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 To be fair, stacking that much liquid in a tile is pretty much an exploit/bug anyways - I'm actually reasonably happy with the new off gassing mechanics, in a normal setting it works much better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blash365 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 So many exploits in one picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve8 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, nakomaru said: Although the events seems more frequent now, there is no way to make a contraption like this work to supply oxygen to your colony. Good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 By the way, liquid bottles are still proportionally off-gassed (uninterrupted 0.4% per second?), so MOGOMs appear to be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemie Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 The bad news is that off gassing across large areas deletes a lot of CO2 (swamp biome for example) I am glad they capped off gasing. The whole exploit of leaving large bottle of PW to O2 production did not make sense (ie should not scale) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 hour ago, nakomaru said: I assume this is intentional and not a bug, so I'm posting it in discussion. I see this is in the DLC posts, would this "issue" apply to the main branch as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupbert Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, JRup said: I see this is in the DLC posts, would this "issue" apply to the main branch as well? I would expect that it will apply to the main branch, when they integrate everything together. Presumably that will happen when this branch is considered stable. Maybe on December 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Hmm, so now it's either build a MOGOM or just use absurd amounts of surface area.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 40 minutes ago, chemie said: The whole exploit of leaving large bottle of PW to O2 production did not make sense (ie should not scale) I tried to clarify in the second post, but this "exploit" still works fine with bottled PW. It's only compressed tiles that got nerfed. (I've now updated the title to reflect this.) 37 minutes ago, JRup said: I see this is in the DLC posts, would this "issue" apply to the main branch as well? This only applies to the DLC currently. I don't know what their plans are for the classic version after DLC is released. Here is what happens in the live branch with 1000T in the tile after one off-gassing event - 1T (0.1%) evaporated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 They increased the rate of off-gassing of normal quantities of pwater? They added a sublimation station to speed up off-gassing of pdirt for a 30% loss and some power. I hope they make something similar for pwater ( hopefully with less loss ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted December 3, 2020 Author Share Posted December 3, 2020 2 hours ago, psusi said: They increased the rate of off-gassing of normal quantities of pwater? It's hard to tell what the actual final rates are (I believe off-gassing events are still random), but my impression is that the frequency of off-gassing is more common but the quantities are lower. I'm going to try to build a liquid tile off-gassing array to see what kind of numbers we can get later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 From my play experience the aim of Klei to limit certain things ( like tile pressure - In the beginning of the games development I could have millions of kg amassing in a single cell in survival mode, just playing the game...without using the editor ) or by encouraging certain play styles, also makes the game more stable - Especially when large kg/cell masses come in contact with each other or do need to constantly be held as giant digit value calculated with or against other high value numbers. In the beginning of the game I also enjoyed greatly playing with the editor, in this and next year I`m playing without using the editor. I used to call playing with the editor "Assisted Godmode" ...I know playing and doing builds in the editor can be great fun. Its 2 audiences to serve for Klei: "Normal" game players and Editor players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted December 3, 2020 Author Share Posted December 3, 2020 I'm not sure if these comments are talking about the contents of this thread, but everything here was built in a normal survival game by dupes. Maybe the Claymator 2 was too powerful, so it was axed. Purists rejoice! But if they are going to leave in the Claymator 1 then they have just limited variety but not results. My suspicion: they were tweaking off-gassing values across the board to get the swamp to work and overlooked this phenomenon, and the nerf was unintentional. I guess time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 I like the name "Claymator" How did you achieve such high pressure in survival mode ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted December 3, 2020 Author Share Posted December 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, babba said: I like the name "Claymator" How did you achieve such high pressure in survival mode ? You got me. Although that build was built by dupes in an old map, it was decommissioned and ran out of polluted water. To quickly test the live branch to answer the question, and to measure the exact off gassing amount, I edited in 1000T. However the original picture with 227T was accumulated through normal play, and could easily continue to reach 1000T on the starting map (given that it can't off gas anymore). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 I also like "Decommissioned", we should run some atomic reactors together when shared colony multiplayer is in the game someday my friend. Cant wait till the 8th, to play the game again You build them and I operate them ( kaboom ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 An update. PW tiles are actually capped at 1kg per event, not 333.3g, and the frequency is enough that... things are simpler than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolthulhu Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Is there a low cap or does a layer of 100g PW on top of the 1000kg PW still effectively prevent offgassing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said: Is there a low cap or does a layer of 100g PW on top of the 1000kg PW still effectively prevent offgassing? 100g of PW on top of 1T of PW will not prevent off-gassing. Off-gassing amount is 0.1% with a maximum of 1kg. However it seems it will always take the maximum if it is above another tile of PW. Small amounts above 1T tiles will completely evaporate with a higher mass than themselves, creating mass. (paging @mathmanican) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tallyGr8 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Hmmmm.... that might be exploitable with pufts and algae distillers to create infinite algae and so clean oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 Well, the first pass lets me multiply my PW mass by nearly 3.5. Invest today! This device pumped in 100kg of polluted water over the course of a cycle, and it generated 312/0.9 = 347kg of polluted oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilalaunekuh Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, nakomaru said: Well, the first pass lets me multiply my PW mass by nearly 3.5. Invest today! Just a quick question: Did you mess with the valve settings ? (Flow rate / arrangement) [Like just using every 2. valve in your build.] => I would love to go a bit deeper down the rabbit hole of mass multiplication and see if we can go beyond 3,5 times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakomaru Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 25 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said: Just a quick question: Did you mess with the valve settings ? (Flow rate / arrangement) [Like just using every 2. valve in your build.] => I would love to go a bit deeper down the rabbit hole of mass multiplication and see if we can go beyond 3,5 times Alright, but you take the blame for this one. 48kg in, 495kg out. 10x Valves are 20g/s (previously 0.1g/s). The balance is in maintaining the minimum top layer without ever going to 0 on it. Minimum sideways flow is 40g, so I'm hitting 50-150g-ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilalaunekuh Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Trading effectiveness for efficiency is always fun PS: Seems the conversion ratio is close to the critical point: A duplicant with normal bladder using a lavatory produces ~11.16 g/s (polluted) Water. => If we reach a conversion ratio of >8,96, a duplicant can self-sustain his oxygen consumption. [Think of the implications, mostly for what you could achieve inside a rocket.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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