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[Opinion] Wigfrid's character wasn't refreshed


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a more interesting rework definitely would be to give her unique combat abilities.  She is a performer after all and not only in singing but you need to be dramatic as well.  I really like The idea of having wigfrid do The spear dives from forge  dodge rolls from wheeler even the multi attack while using the inspiration as a make shift stamina bar so that way its not spam able and it requires it to be earned through fighting. 

My thoughts on it is that wigfrid is usually played as a tank, and gives no regard to taking damage she even gains inspiration from spiky bushes and cactus  (I think she is secretly a mashochist).   But she is at her best when played with skill. so i think it would be best to try and subtly  teach the player to fight better with wigfrid. Since she is mostly chosen because of her abilities. i think we can keep some of the fight songs.  health 1 sanity song the durability song and
just like how the scare song and the aggro song take a chunk of inspiration Why not have a battle command song that uses inspiration too But instead of it being an item to hold in your inventory  it works more like a blueprint

or to help with inventory problem why not be able to combine songs together to save space and gain all effects.

Main thing i would want would be battle command stuff that can be done maybe with button inputs (maybe a bit like moose?)
Right click while moving= mini dash like forge spear
x3 attack input =multi attack like other forge spear with wigfrid
Battle spear exclusive = skydive attack  at full inspiration.

just some ideas.  maybe holding shift can prepare wigfrid for a roll  and wig will roll in the direction she was going (has to be moving in the direction for at least .2 second maybe to help compensate for lag.)

There is lots of possibilities And the thing is Klei You have made all these assets already!  Why not use them!
 

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I like the refresh.. but to be completely honest I am still fairly disappointed. Even just one new actual battle craftable (armor or wep) or a single special stun/lunge/whatever attack you can use at full inspiration that drains say a third of the meter or something along with the songs functioning just a little bit better would have made me very happy indeed. Also I see its definitely not just me that read the description of her rework and very much thought they confirmed battle abilities in the way it was worded, first they mentioned songs then battle abilities =/..

Some of the songs are just not very  useful or need to be fixed/changed and im not necessarily even talking about the fire resist song as I've actually been using that to decent effect against larva (that get through my wall) and pretty good use against Klaus (I now just tank the fire attack with ease via the fire and health songs, armor and jelly beans), it certainly needs a buff for sure but I like the concept and its actually decent even as is in my opinion. The health steal song is obviously VIP but really all this is doing is slowing my jellybean consumption rate and giving even more regen in battles, still nice but nothing too special - very nice on allies though. The weapon degradation song is nice but like many I use hambats a ton so this is only good for the few bosses or occasions I decide to use Thul Clubs or Glass Cutters (battle spears are terrible against bosses and you cant use songs against mobs cause of the way the inspiration meter works). Honestly if it had affected armor instead of weapons it would have been amazing and my favourite song hands down,  even longer uses of battle helms, thul helms, marble armor etc? YES PLEASE! It even fits Wigfrids theme much better as a tank not only prolonging her own armor but also her allies!! God I wish this song had this effect instead, in the unlikely event Klei added this effect as a new song or did change it to effect armor instead it would be absolutely killer (I can dream!).

Only one of the sanity songs needs to exist honestly and the one that reduces insanity auras is stronger and has a better gimmick and name, I wish the other one didnt exist and we got something else. Then we have the two instant use songs... neither of which I think I will ever really use again unless they are changed.. tried the scaring one on Klaus's deers...painful/not worth it and you could just dodge in that time and it can result in unnecessary melee deer hits which hurt, useless if using followers cause it scares befriended bunnymen or pigs as well.. could see its use when soloing BQ but that one use is meh and I always use bunnies against her anyway. I've seen posts suggesting using it to farm spiders/certain mobs or save friends in niche situations but these seem like a waste/inefficient and/or dangerous situations in which you might not have enough inspiration  anyway or may not have the song handy at the right time. Similarly the aggro song WOULD be good for say farming goats or hunting koalas but again you likely wont have enough inspiration at the time. Both just seem incredibly niche and not worth it at all.

As for song effects I would have like to have seen - one of the instant use songs could have been an aoe attack that simply hits all enemies around you in a small area. Useful for farming mobs! Make it not that much damage so it isnt crazy strong and more so allows for situations where say the second half of enemies in a group/mob take one less melee hit to kill than usual due to them being hit by the aoe attack.

Alternatively if thats too strong maybe an AOE stun that just stuns or slows mobs (maybe not bosses that might be a bit nuts) for a second or so giving you a sec to heal/run/kill an enemy unharassed etc. 

As far as the lasting songs, instead of the second sanity song one that slows Wig and allies hunger somewhat might have been a neat idea, her song and lust for battle sustains everyone instead or look I'm just going to go ahead and say it... a damage boost. Yes it would need to be incredibly balanced or it would hands down be the best song and likely too strong but honestly not one of the songs boosts actual attack strength, speed or gives any sort of offensive boost they are ALL defensive or crowd control. A single offensive song of some type would have been great even if it provided a miniscule boost or an abstract form of offensive power (thorns style return damage to attackers for example). 

Finally the inspiration meter itself doesn't work like I'm sure many of us wish as it is essentially only useful or even really usable against bosses. It really needs to have some use against mobs. What I would propose is that it essentially stops  decaying below the first and lowest checkpoint required to use a song and then that last chunk decays entirely in one go only after a full day has passed with no combat. This would mean you could actually use a single song against mobs somewhat efficiently so long as you are fighting something every day, above that small section the meter would function as it does now but this way you'd always get to have at least one song going against mobs (or can use the single use songs as the opening to a mob battle! You might then be able to get off one more use if its a bigger mob) and it encourages you to keep fighting something (hostile mobs only so you cant just kill a butterfly every day) every day to keep that first bit of inspiration up - very fitting for Wigfrid!! Wouldn't be OP against bosses cause they give you insane amounts of inspiration so quickly that you can get two songs going very fast already. 

Anyway... the rework was great theme wise and I love the concept of the songs but there are honestly only one or two I actually like or use to great effect and the inspiration meter only being useful against bosses/treeguards/spider queens is unfortunate, it should really have some use against mobs even if minimal (and not the totally meh "crowd control" songs we have now).

I love that they didn't change anything to do with Wigfrids existing abilities and didnt add some weird new downside or different acting roles I just wish the songs were more useful/varied. Yes I didn't want her to change too much to begin with but I just can't help but feel like she's gotten one of if not the worst rework so far simply because it honestly just doesn't add very much at all and barely adds much to her playstyle or character.

She's going to stay my main but I really hope Klei make a couple of awesome minor changes to the rework :grin:

2 hours ago, pedregales said:
  •  
  • They could have moved Wigfrid's spear and helmet to her stage tab, making it faster to access and craft them plus not making that tab almost completely useless once you have crafted every song you wanted/needed.

holy wow yes, this would have been amazing, I've accidently made spears when wanting to make battle spears or vice versa on a couple of occasions. Also would just make sense and look much better!

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

Outside of that- Where is her unique craftable Sisturn like structure that lets a Wigfrid player leave their mark in a server? Her Refresh just feels like a bunch of Spell Scrolls that Increase/Decrease certain gameplay stats

I really wanted a unique craftable structure.. Honestly even if all it did was simply hold your songs like a chest but in some neat way and it looked cool, even if expensive to craft I would still adore it!

This or a weapon rack to store weapons and armor on.

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I don't like the update this time. It was a month in advance to announce the direction of the update, but the final result was so little content. The Valkyrie is still the Valkyrie, and I still don't see anything in her like a performance artist. Even around me, there are already people who think of this role as a stand-up fight that doesn't require any movement or manipulation, which I can't accept

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I mean you cant win either way can you. When Wigfrid was first announced for the next refresh there was already multiple posts about people being scared for a huge rework to outright saying she shouldn't even get anything new added as she is peak balance. Then she comes out and doesn't get a huge rework but some simple abilities that add to her kit, and now here are the myriad of posts complaining she didn't get fully reworked. Its clear to me that the developers agreed Wigfrids kit was good on its own and didnt warrant huge additions so they chose her for the next rework as it would be rather light work while dealing with Covid, working on a halloween update, as well as a new RoT update the following month.     

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1 hour ago, sudoku said:

I mean you cant win either way can you. When Wigfrid was first announced for the next refresh there was already multiple posts about people being scared for a huge rework to outright saying she shouldn't even get anything new added as she is peak balance. Then she comes out and doesn't get a huge rework but some simple abilities that add to her kit, and now here are the myriad of posts complaining she didn't get fully reworked. Its clear to me that the developers agreed Wigfrids kit was good on its own and didnt warrant huge additions so they chose her for the next rework as it would be rather light work while dealing with Covid, working on a halloween update, as well as a new RoT update the following month.     

I said I wasn’t going to harshly criticize the Wigfrid rework anymore past my post in the Maxwell Meme’s Thread, But I just wanted to point out that these Reworks Klei has put out for a console player (because PC already has access to tons of wonderful unofficial content in the form of Mods) but for Anyone on Console (or anyone on PC who doesn’t use Mods) These character reworks have been a way until now.. to provide players with brand new fresh content added to the game- With the Willow Rework you got this cool hulking Teddy Bear Giant that helped you farm Nightmare fuel and could be repaired by using Sewing Kits- adding gameplay elements where Willow would go around collecting Beefalo wools, Beardling hair, hounds teeth and spider silks when normally she wouldn’t have.

With Woodies Rework he gained new found COMBAT and Movement Abilities in the form of his new Mutations.. (I’m not even going to comment any further on that..)

With Wendy’s Rework she gained her very own personal version of Dont Starve Single Players Divining Rod where you will carry Pipspook around to help them locate their lost belongings in exchange for Mourning Glory the crafting Ingredient for the potions that you can give Abigail.

Wigfrids Songs do not really provide any new gameplay like the ones above- and probably even more importantly then THAT.. Wigfrids songs once crafted- are permanent and do not wear out over use, meaning that once you craft them once.. UNLIKE Willow or Wendy who will still be making frequent trips back to whatever areas of the game they need to go to to get their Kit Ingredients...

Wigfrid never has to ever again.

I said I wouldn’t discuss my disliking of the rework any further Beyond the Meme.. I’m not going to break that promise.

I just wanted to come here to mostly point out that: Klei always releases these reworks and then gives them a week or two to settle in reevaluating & making changes based on their fan feedback, before moving on towards the next thing they plan to do.

And I can only sit here & hope this rework will be treated no differently..

If YOU dislike the refresh, Then please speak up, because one persons disliking isn’t going to get them to re-evaluate it.. it takes an entire community of unhappy people to see those types of changes.

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I think she could use some tweaks. Just tweaks and timers, though.

Boost the fear effect duration by a lot, adjust the gain/loss of Inspiration. Turn up the power of Fireproof Falsetto to 80%+, perhaps add overheating resistance. Maybe add a defense up to Rude Interlude. Could up the cost of the recipes a bit. They're fairly cheap, and I feel that might be part of the reason they're so weak. If Wigfrid needs to go far and wide to create a single song, it could be easier to justify stronger effects.

Hopefully I'm not suggesting anything horribly extreme. Wigfrid mains, please chime in.

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here are some ideas I have to make her rework feel more like a rework

1) Klei should add here Forge mechanics as a song (Battle cries increase nearby allies' next attack damage by 25%)

to make this not too OP, the effect only happen randomly after she sings, making it not alway give other player a attack buff

2) give her spear and helm a special alibity only if you use both  

to not make her spear being useless after you get other stronger weapons 

Klei should make that if Wigfrid use both the Battle Spear and Battle Helm, Wigfird will able to use Sky Lunge (from the forge) 

this will be super useful not only during battle but outside as well since it act like a teleportation skill. (Klei can neft the range of this skill to 3 or 2 turfs rather than the whole screen)

she should be able to block projectiles and dodge when wearing them like what she did in the animation short

this will give the player a reason to keep using the battle spear 

3) Gorge mechanic could work too, allow her to get an extra meat when kill a mob

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Fire falseto is useless even when killing enraged dragonfly. I personally would give Wigfrid a song that boost speed(maybe 10%), and also remove the sanity songs and replace them with a single use song that instantly gives inspiration, I know it may sounds wierd but think about it like "storing" inspiration, it could be really useful .

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I think i've said it on this thread, but I want to be able to use the songs every day. They're "intended" for boss fights but the problem is, you don't fight bosses every day. Sucks. Sucks bad. Even if her songs let you take on more smaller enemies, not that much would change. She has another option when doing her daily fighting.

A fix for it would be to let the meter run out slower or pause decay when hitting chester at the very least. I hate that I'm not using her ability more than what's intended. It's not even really a specialty.

I think warly provides a stronger support to a team than wigfrid does and it's also usable outside of boss combat. 

And truth be told, technically warly is a stronger striker than wigfrid is. He can spice himself to hit harder than she can. 

Idk. if warly is that much stronger than wigfrid is at fighting and support even with her songs, at least let homegirl squeeze good utility out of songs in everyday combat scenarios. A battle is a battle and sending 100 bunnymen to valhalla should be just as important as sending one half bear, half badger to it.

Let us have a meter that ticks down slower.

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2 hours ago, AlternateMew said:

I think she could use some tweaks. Just tweaks and timers, though.

Boost the fear effect duration by a lot, adjust the gain/loss of Inspiration. Turn up the power of Fireproof Falsetto to 80%+, perhaps add overheating resistance. Maybe add a defense up to Rude Interlude. Could up the cost of the recipes a bit. They're fairly cheap, and I feel that might be part of the reason they're so weak. If Wigfrid needs to go far and wide to create a single song, it could be easier to justify stronger effects.

Hopefully I'm not suggesting anything horribly extreme. Wigfrid mains, please chime in.

Wig main, 100% needs some tweaks and minor changes, as is it honestly adds very very little to her and half the songs are extremely niche or lets face it garbage. Even those that are good just do what other items do on a much weaker level and don't add anything new or exciting at all - health steal song is just weaker jellybeans..

Nothing extreme is needed but as it is now they honestly may as well have added nothing at all to her - her rework only applies against bosses and doesnt make them go down faster or more easily, it simply gives more defensive boosts we didnt even need.. she was already a great boss killer and tank. Just cause Wig needed the least changes and additions of all the reworks so far doesnt mean we Shouldve gotten an update that essentially does next to nothing at all. The more time passes and the more I mess with the songs the more dissapointed with the rework I get =( Honestly thinking of just putting my songs away and not using them anymore,  not worth the  effort and the inventory slots. Time to stockpile goods for Hallowed  Nights and consider a potential new main instead =/ (which I've claimed wouldnt happen but honestly this rework just seems crappier with every day that passes and its left me with a disdain for Wig, feels like Klei didn't bother reworking her properly simply because lots of people liked her as is). 

Also I bet the Wolfgang rework even if it makes him less strong will be amazing and interesting and will result in Wig still just being seen as a discount/weaker Wolf. This rework was the ultimate missed opportunity for Klei to end that once and for all.

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5 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

Klei should add here Forge mechanics as a song (Battle cries increase nearby allies' next attack damage by 25%)

Pls no more damage buffs. We have already wendy and warly. I liked how they added not that obvious effects

 

Edit. Against bosses she gets buffed in comparation batbat+hp song+durability+sanity. No need of healing food without worry ablout that much for sanity

But i really dislike having a new bar that i cant use most of the time. 

I still thinking that it should interact with the old perks. The gameplay or for every bar, you can waste it for making a dash like in forge. Idk but something little but fun

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2 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Boost the fear effect duration by a lot, adjust the gain/loss of Inspiration

This would help tons for raid boss solos. And to balance it out, have the effect diminish when more players are present up to it's current time right now. 

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7 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Also I bet the Wolfgang rework even if it makes him less strong will be amazing and interesting and will result in Wig still just being seen as a discount/weaker Wolf.

This is the one thing I don't want to see happen, and why I wanted to see Wigfrid get a useful non-combat niche. I guess that contradicts saying she just needs timer tweaks, but by that I was only talking about making the songs not subpar.

Now the only way they can fix the Wolfgang vs Wigfrid deate is by nerfing Wolfgang so hard and changing his role so drastically that he's no longer a combat character at all. Which I'd personally be fine with, but I don't think Wolfgang mains would appreciate. By not giving both Wolfgang and Wigfrid distinct non-combat uses, it maintains the fact that one will be the discount version of the other.

Any Wolfgang mains with thoughts here on his role changing completely?

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Even wendy has certain big advantages over wigfrid before either of their reworks. One big one is hound attacks in the open. Wendy has a better time against hounds than wigfrid does. and that's a HUGE part of the game when you elect to stay away from base after day 100.

She can eat blue caps. That's another big thing that wigfrid lacks and continues to. The diet is one of the most detrimental things about wigfrid which is fine, but always remember, it is a very significant weakness that deters min maxers from touching her. 
 

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10 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Even wendy has certain big advantages over wigfrid before either of their reworks. One big one is hound attacks in the open. Wendy has a better time against hounds than wigfrid does. and that's a HUGE part of the game when you elect to stay away from base after day 100.

She can eat blue caps. That's another big thing that wigfrid lacks and continues to. The diet is one of the most detrimental things about wigfrid which is fine, but always remember, it is a very significant weakness that deters min maxers from touching her. 
 

well wigfrid only needs 2 hits to kill regular hounds with a dark swords (common weapon at day 100) so she didnt have problems with hounds at all. Is good that wigfrids doesnt get the absurd control over hounds that wendy has but atleast she gets a crowd control useful when there is more than 2 players in the server and hounds can come in huge waves

not having access to blue caps might be a problem in early days like happens with wormwood and warly but when you receive less damage, have more damage and recover hp fighting you get part of that problem solved

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I really appreciate Klei not changing Wigfrid that much, especially compared to Woodie who got a massive overhaul to his kit. I'd mostly like to see some songs tweaked and tinkered with, and maybe make inspiration better against mobs, but otherwise I'm happy with where she is.

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I would have preffered a indirect nerf to Wigfrid to go along with her songs. Wigfrids hunt and kill a lot of Koalefants, sadly, because their 8 meat drop is a perfect solution to her carnivore diet. It would have been cool if they nerfed the Koalefant drops to 6 meat, as that would make Koalefants a little less reliable for Wigfrid players and would make their job a little bit harder. A indirect nerf, a nerf that makes a every character's job harder but hits a certain character harder than the rest. Just a tiny example of what I'm trying to say.

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12 minutes ago, thegreatJash said:

I would have preffered a indirect nerf to Wigfrid to go along with her songs. Wigfrids hunt and kill a lot of Koalefants, sadly, because their 8 meat drop is a perfect solution to her carnivore diet. It would have been cool if they nerfed the Koalefant drops to 6 meat, as that would make Koalefants a little less reliable for Wigfrid players and would make their job a little bit harder. A indirect nerf, a nerf that makes a every character's job harder but hits a certain character harder than the rest.

she will still being able to kill an entire pig village in hands of a new player

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