[Opinion] Wigfrid's character wasn't refreshed

[GetNerfedOn]

We've seen the previous reworks come and go. Most of them introduced sprawling changes to the characters they affected.

Winona got her new devices. Willow got old perks back, new perks like Bernie's new mechanics. Woodie has his three new forms. Warly had changes to his eating mechanics and had spices introduced. Wendy had changes to Abby. All of these changes arguably changed some aspect of the characters' core strengths and forced them to play differently, even if slightly, as a result.

But as for Wigfrid, she's technically still the same character, with a new mechanic that ultimately provides little change to her core gameplay and strengths. Her buffing allies, and now being able to taunt or fear monsters doesn't really seem like it'll give her entirely new, rewarding and interesting gameplay strategies. In the end these perks will only help her and allies tank and hold F a little better, but thats it.

But on the flip side, wouldn't this what the players would have demanded considering Wigfrid's playstyle is well and good already? Considering that, it is understandable why Wigfrid was just buffed instead of given a sprawling rework, which is quite a herculean task to perform correctly without enraging the playerbase. After all, Wigfrid is one of the most popular characters by a mile.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Do you agree or disagree?

[ZTheNecromancer]

The reworks fine, they didn't really need to change the character all that much.

[BoysenSyrup]

I'm happy with the rework because they kept her current stats and gave her a more solid late game role. I think the reason they changed the other five so radically was because they were underpowered, and took a lot more work to make interesting.

[ShyRo-Zyerenzy]

she is in a good spot. Klei can decide to buff the songs a little but it's perfect just like this

[Flip Face]

Willow, received several small, fire-related skills.
(What I thought saturated the character a little) ...

But Wigfrid, received a lot without overloading the character with small privileges.
Not to mention that this seems to be just the beginning for more engaging combat mechanics in the near future.

I liked it, and it makes me think that the next rework will be more moderate like this.

(like Wes for example).

[chirsg]

The more I play, the more I come to find that this rework just doesn't add anything significant. I was extremely against a boat craft for her or ANYTHING remotely nautical, but now I wish she did get it. 

The songs just aren't good enough to make her stand on her own, they didn't elevate her to even wendy's level of power, nor do they provide significant utility outside of boss combat. Having the inspiration tick down slower would help with this and perhaps squeeze a solid amount of enjoyment out of the songs, but the novelty will wear off and I'll just run around later on playing songless wigfrid. 

You're right though, OP. This wasn't really a refresh. 

I have said it before as well, Wigfrid should have had her rework delayed. I wanted Webber so badly because he still is most in need of one and Wigfrid... really didn't need a rework.

But if I were in total control of her rework, I'd reward her for a no armor berserker type playstyle that doubled her rate of attack as she took down enemies. The more enemies killed, the faster her attack rate to the max cap of 2x.

Still would be inferior to wolfgang as a boss killer, monkey killer and hound killer, but would still be super fun and thrilling since you're without armor and are tons more prone to death.

With this... idk. They added something that she does not need, nor does a team even need since whatever the songs do now, other characters, namely wortox do infinitely better.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

She was fun but simple now she has more mechanics so for me this was the perfect way to make the rework 

I wouldnt mind to have more sinergy with the new metter but is ok

12 minutes ago, chirsg said:

they didn't elevate her to even wendy's level of power

Thankfully

[E1234]

The fireproof falsetto is the one thing that sticks out to me for this refresh. Its just such a bizarre and incredibly useless "buff" because there's like 3 instances where you encounter fire while fighting.

I really didnt expect much from this rework and I really like the song idea in general. But I think Klei could come up with something better than the fireproof falsetto. Other than that I think the rework is fine. Wigfrid now has more mechanics to help her and her teams for fights other than being a helmet slave. And I think that's all that was needed really. Of course her rework will pale in comparison to something like Wendy or Winona because they were awful/useless prior to their rework.

[Mike23Ua]

I’ve said this so much that I shouldn’t have to repeat it.. but Wigfrids Rework to me doesn’t even feel like a Rework.. she gained no new immediately noticeable abilities outside of her new “stage bow” idle animation, something that in all honesty- Belongs more properly on CHARLIE instead of Wigfrid, what should Wigfrids have been then??? Gee I don’t know- maybe the exact pose she’s currently in on my game loading screen?? 
Spear firmly planted into the ground while she belts out musical notes while idle.
 

Outside of that- Where is her unique craftable Sisturn like structure that lets a Wigfrid player leave their mark in a server? Her Refresh just feels like a bunch of Spell Scrolls that Increase/Decrease certain gameplay stats.

I would’ve preferred her having new actual FIGHTING Abilities that required the Inspiration meter (still gained by fighting the enemy mobs) to use.. These could range from throwing her spear as a projectile, charging forward spear first, dodging enemy attacks.. whatever- just actual ABILITIES (and not Stats Scrolls) that use the inspiration meter as a Stamina bar when used.

(all of the above mentioned abilities are ALL seen & used during her Animated short but not a single one of them are actually in game..)

The TL:DR the Rework (in my opinion of course) is Bad, and only people who were already perfectly happy with her already existing playstyle & not receiving anything significant, will be happy with this.  

[Scrimbles]

I'm largely happy, Wigfrid was already really well designed, and arguably too powerful.

 

That being said, I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this refresh, it doesn't seem to change how you play at all, you just have a couple of mid/late game crafts that give (mostly) stat buffs. Makes her stronger, but doesn't really make her any different.

[Ohan]

27 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I was extremely against a boat craft for her or ANYTHING remotely nautical, but now I wish she did get it. 

 

28 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Wigfrid... really didn't need a rework.

 

28 minutes ago, chirsg said:

a no armor berserker type playstyle

Im sorry my dude but this sounds so incredibly confused. In an another thread u suggested wig should have a song that lights firepits to the max... what? 

First u say u didnt want any radical changes to wig like a viking boat then u say she didnt need a rework because she was fine the way she was and then u suggest to change the character who is arguably most well known for her own unique armor to a no-armor playstyle...? In dst..? 

33 minutes ago, chirsg said:

nor do they provide significant utility outside of boss combat

It is very clear that the songs were designed for big prolonged boss fights. If u try to force them anywhere else ur putting a square through a round hole and getting upset that it doesnt fit. Wigfrid does not need the buffs in regular combat because she already has her innate combat boosts and helmet for smaller fights. What she brings now is team wide boss fighting utility 

 

29 minutes ago, chirsg said:

nor does a team even need

Go watch splorange’s bee queen fight video 

[Wumpus the 19th]

I must agree with Scrimbles. I loved this update because it didn't try to make the character bigger than they should be and, to me, works spectacularly with it's more focused on small additions instead of trying to make the character bigger, better, and somewhat too big. Her songs help her be a tank, which is what she was made to be. No longer is she a worse wolfgang by a long shot, made to be a swap character for helmets. Now, she can tank better than wolfgang and the rude interlude cemented this for me. She gains health and sanity from fighting and can halve sanity loss, making her the much better at soaking damage for her allies like walter, the glass cannon cavalry.

My only tweaks are things that I would say for almost any character, and that's just because i'm a veteran to this game. a dash of downsides to balance off the songs, but the expensive ingredients and lack of usability outside of wig offsets that. Maybe a high, but not infinite, durability for songs since all the songs are made of renewable ingredients, which if you're investing in songs, you should be able to get easily enough. 

I could ramble on, but that'd probably take the better part of the hour to read. And it would go off topic a minimum of 5 times.

[Owlrust]

I agree with a previous user that, while she didn't need a rework as badly as someone like Webber, she was one of the most played characters because of her kit; and as a result she would've probably been the most profitable for Klei. With that in mind, I couldn't imagine they would need to change her identity (or even WANT to for that matter) to get people to play her more. Kinda funny, in her lore she wasn't in the spotlight much and this refresh put her in it.

[Primalflower]

i feel like people are going to have to adjust to much less intensive reworks instead just adding 1 or 2 things to character since they dont really need much, instead of literally speaking, reworking the character, and in this, wigfrid's rework fits just fine. It doesn't change her core gameplay pretty much at all, and just adds a pretty useful team-oriented perk that the player can pretty much completely ignore.

[chirsg]

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

It is very clear that the songs were designed for big prolonged boss fights. If u try to force them anywhere else ur putting a square through a round hole and getting upset that it doesnt fit. Wigfrid does not need the buffs in regular combat because she already has her innate combat boosts and helmet for smaller fights. What she brings now is team wide boss fighting utility 

 

I want a good way against HUGE hoardes. I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I want to pick off 100 bunnymen using books consistently. if it's 5 bunny men, no need for a book. even if you used one, it's a dumb choice

 

 

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

2 hours ago, chirsg said:

a no armor berserker type playstyle

Im sorry my dude but this sounds so incredibly confused. In an another thread u suggested wig should have a song that lights firepits to the max... what? 

First u say u didnt want any radical changes to wig like a viking boat then u say she didnt need a rework because she was fine the way she was and then u suggest to change the character who is arguably most well known for her own unique armor to a no-armor playstyle...? In dst..? 

These are all things i'd rather have than what she has now. Still all valid even if I got just a single one.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

2 hours ago, chirsg said:

nor does a team even need

Go watch splorange’s bee queen fight video

you quoted something out of context. i don't even understand what it is you're responding to

[Zeklo]

I think a lot of dissapointment is coming from the particular wording of "refresh". Since yeah, she wasn't really 'refreshed' in the literal sense of the word, she had some mechanics tacked on.

There may have been some room for a minor weakness or two, but that almost seems like unnecessary baggage for a pretty well-rounded character.

[AlternateMew]

I'm going to trust a certain harsh critics' opinion for the most part, since I don't play her. Basically that she has two useful songs (Life-drain and weapon durability), two okay songs (sanity songs), and the others being pretty useless.

But that's not my informed opinion. Mine is "Didn't take away what she has, and that part is good. Utilized her Actress side, which is also good. Gave us an AMAZING lore video, and that is GREAT... but has nothing to do with gameplay and is just me being a lore junkie.

[chirsg]

12 minutes ago, chirsg said:

2 hours ago, Ohan said:

Go watch splorange’s bee queen fight video

 

I just saw the video. You wasted my time. That demo is meaningless to me. with a group of people that size, wigfrid is literally unneeded. I thought splorange came up with a cool way to kill bee queen solo with songs. Errr... better luck next time. 

[Ohan]

17 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I want a good way against HUGE hoardes.

Maybe u can find a nice modded character on the steam workshop that will allow you to fight 100 bunnymen at once. 

17 minutes ago, chirsg said:

i don't even understand what it is you're responding to

U said the songs r something neither she nor her team need and i suggested you should go check out Splorange’s 1:31 minute video on youtube showcasing how her songs are very effective against “HUGE hoardes” of grumble bees in the BQ fight 

3 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I just saw the video. You wasted my time. That demo is meaningless to me. with a group of people that size, wigfrid is literally unneeded. I thought splorange came up with a cool way to kill bee queen solo with songs. Errr... better luck next time. 

 

[chirsg]

6 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Maybe u can find a nice modded character on the steam workshop that will allow you to fight 100 bunnymen at once. 

 

Or just a longer tickdown on inspiration so you can run and retain it so you can scream, pick off scared bunnies, build meter, run to a safe distance to scream again, pick off bunnies, build meter, but at the same time manage dangerous space to make sure you're doing it all right so you don't die. It's really not that unreasonable and if you're going to be a condescending prick, I think our conversation can end. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Ohan said:

U said the songs r something neither she nor her team need and i suggested you should go check out Splorange’s 1:31 minute video on youtube showcasing how her songs are very effective against “HUGE hoardes” of grumble bees in the BQ fight 

 

With the rate of damage that many characters can deplete bee queen HP, it's not a big deal if wigfrid is missing. It's been done well in the past before wigfrid. Numbers make bee queen much more manageable. Wigfrid was never the be all, end all team mate to have before.

 

[Ohan]

2 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Wigfrid was never the be all, end all team mate to have before.

Who claimed she was? Who is talking about <before> wigfrid? The  specific topic at hand is how <new> wigfrid has introduced a novel way to fight Bee queen by keeping the grumble bees constantly feared.

The fewer allies Wigfrid has vs BQ the more valuable the crowd control on grumble bees will be lmfao not less. That fight couldve been done with 2 players if u want: 1 person only focusing on BQ while Wigfrid keeps the grumbles feared, no panflutes, no ice staves, no cobblestone, no fence maze, no bunnymen. 

 if u cant deduce that from sploranges video then idk what to tell you lol. 

11 minutes ago, chirsg said:

our conversation can end. 

Gladly, please end my suffering 

[chirsg]

Jesus Christ, dude. Sort out that attitude. 

[pedregales]

I never thought I could be more disappointed than with Wendy's re-work (elixirs are incredibly unbalanced, ghosts are still useless, Abby's flower takes an item slot instead of being attached to some other button), and yet, despite expecting nothing, I feel disappointed.

I love the concept. It works in theory. However, the overall execution was poor in my opinion, not because they didn't change how Wigfrid works, but because what they added barely changed anything:

• The songs are mostly useful against bosses with a lot of health (Deerclops would likely drop dead before you use more than 2 songs, even more so if there are other players fighting), but even against big health bosses they don't really impact the fight much. For most other fights you might not use anything at all.
• Fireproof Falsetto is straight up useless even if it gave 100% damage resistance to fire. Maybe if it protected from overheating and freezing (like many others here suggest) it would be useful for winter/summer fights, but I have my doubts.
• Startling Soliloquy is counter-intuitive to how inspiration works. Even then, can be useful in a pinch against minions of bosses such as Bee Queen.

In some cases I felt they just lost the forest for the trees:

• Having Bel Canto of Courage and Clear Minded Cadenza, both related to sanity management, is redundant. I would say either keep only one or merge them into one.
• They could have moved Wigfrid's spear and helmet to her stage tab, making it faster to access and craft them plus not making that tab almost completely useless once you have crafted every song you wanted/needed.
• Songs take up too many item slots. Seriously don't understand their need to clutter our inventory slots with perma-items that could easily be buttons. First they had their chance with Abby's flower (which there is no point to not have in your inventory now, aside from skins), then they added the recipe book (which I dearly love BTW), and now the songs (which I can forgive as it might be harder to set a button for them on console, but I don't know about that, and in PC it is perfectly reasonable). However, since only ~3 songs are worth making, this is not really that big of a deal, but is still mildly annoying.

I do think they did a few things right though:

• Weaponized Warble is a pretty unique (in the game) and mildly useful ability. Could have been much more increasing armor durability as well, but is good enough on it's own.
• Heartrending Ballad is very powerful and offers Wigfrid a tiny niche role as support tank (technically, the rest of songs do, but the songs that directly benefit teammates are this one and the sanity ones). Also adds a synergy with Wormwood I believe.

[OMGkawaiiAngel]

It's just a buff... I guess.

[Monkey Cups]

3 hours ago, chirsg said:

But if I were in total control of her rework, I'd reward her for a no armor berserker type playstyle that doubled her rate of attack as she took down enemies. The more enemies killed, the faster her attack rate to the max cap of 2x.

Something like that would be better on Wolfgang. He doesn't have a unique armor like Wigfrid and at least one of his skins is berserker themed. It's the gladiator skin, I believe.