[Opinion] Wigfrid's character wasn't refreshed

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, thegreatJash said:

I would have preffered a indirect nerf to Wigfrid to go along with her songs. Wigfrids hunt and kill a lot of Koalefants, sadly, because their 8 meat drop is a perfect solution to her carnivore diet. It would have been cool if they nerfed the Koalefant drops to 6 meat, as that would make Koalefants a little less reliable for Wigfrid players and would make their job a little bit harder. A indirect nerf, a nerf that makes a every character's job harder but hits a certain character harder than the rest.

I’m sorry but why?? All you need is 1 small bird morsel, mole rat, rabbit, spider + 3 ice thrown into cooking pot to make Meatballs- Wigfrid can survive for Forever off Meatballs alone (assuming that your world Gen hasn’t completely screwed you over and there’s not a single reliable meat source anywhere around at the time you start starving)

There are people who will say “You should never be starving as Wigfrid & should get better at the game.”

When in actuality.... it Doesn’t work like that. Depending on the settings you have applied to your worlds the odds may not Always be in your favor.

Hunting the elephants down supplies you with enough meat to make two meaty stews or 8 meatballs.. but as long as you have birds and a way to kill said birds.. you shouldn’t ever have to actively hunt Koalephant- Even as Wigfrid.

In actuality- I think Wigfrid players just do that the most because the Helm and Battle Spear make taking them down quicker then other characters can.

But that’s my own (probably uninformed) opinion about it..

Also without the proper supplies to keep it fresh, you food will spoil which is why I prefer the 1 small morsel, plus 3 fillers method over potentially wasting tons of meat I didn’t even need at that moment.

(But I also play mostly alone too- so their ain’t people actively going out to help Restock Fridges... and by the time I’m done adventuring and go back home- the stock in my fridges are already spoiling or spoiled.)

[thegreatJash]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’m sorry but why?? All you need is 1 small bird morsel, mole rat, rabbit, spider + 3 ice thrown into cooking pot to make Meatballs- Wigfrid can survive for Forever off Meatballs alone (assuming that your world Gen hasn’t completely screwed you over and there’s not a single reliable meat source anywhere around at the time you start starving)

There are people who will say “You should never be starving as Wigfrid & should get better at the game.”

When in actuality.... it Doesn’t work like that. Depending on the settings you have applied to your worlds the odds may not Always be in your favor.

Hunting the elephants down supplies you with enough meat to make two meaty stews or 8 meatballs.. but as long as you have birds and a way to kill said birds.. you shouldn’t ever have to actively hunt Koalephant- Even as Wigfrid.

In actuality- I think Wigfrid players just do that the most because the Helm and Battle Spear make taking them down quicker then other characters can.

But that’s my own (probably uninformed) opinion about it..

Also without the proper supplies to keep it fresh, you food will spoil which is why I prefer the 1 small morsel, plus 3 fillers method over potentially wasting tons of meat I didn’t even need at that moment.

(But I also play mostly alone too- so their ain’t people actively going out to help Restock Fridges... and by the time I’m done adventuring and go back home- the stock in my fridges are already spoiling or spoiled.)

It would be a tiny nerf to say the least, and if you feel that it wouldn't change anything at all, than they could nerf it even more.

[pedregales]

On 9/27/2020 at 11:15 AM, AlternateMew said:

[...]

Now the only way they can fix the Wolfgang vs Wigfrid deate is by nerfing Wolfgang so hard and changing his role so drastically that he's no longer a combat character at all. Which I'd personally be fine with, but I don't think Wolfgang mains would appreciate. By not giving both Wolfgang and Wigfrid distinct non-combat uses, it maintains the fact that one will be the discount version of the other.

Any Wolfgang mains with thoughts here on his role changing completely?

I am not a Wolfgang main, but I personally think that would be lame. The Strongman (as his title calls him) should stay a combat focused character, otherwise he is not The Strongman.

However, I read in this forums that one of the devs said "yeah but he is still getting reworked" in response to someone saying Wolfgang was busted with volt goat jelly. If that is true, that sounds like a "nerf" is coming along.

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, pedregales said:

I am not a Wolfgang main, but I personally think that would be lame. The Strongman (as his title calls him) should stay a combat focused character, otherwise he is not The Strongman.

However, I read in this forums that one of the devs said "yeah but he is still getting reworked" in response to someone saying Wolfgang was busted with volt goat jelly. If that is true, that sounds like a "nerf" is coming along.

I pretty much expect it- the dude’s compendium description claims he has a Myriad of phobias, yet that doesn’t play any part in the game at all what-so-ever.

(unless his phobia is not eating enough junk.. and then he just IMAGINES himself to being puny and weak)

However factor in the following: Willows downside was to literally start freezing to death faster when cold, a downside that was significantly reduced when they gave her abilities to stand in a raging forest fire unharmed, or cuddle Bernie for a little extra Warmth. Wendy? Same exact situation: Her  doesn’t hit very hard downside has been reduced significantly because it ONLY goes into play when Abigail is down.. thanks to the new Petal Bestowment buff.

Woodies curse that used to Trigger from chopping too much Wood now only triggers on a Full Moon, or if he creates and eats a Totem for it.

My conclusion: Puny form Wolfgang will completely disappear altogether and there will only be average Wolfgang and Mighty Wolfgang forms- However there would obviously be balance changes to reflect upon that.. by maybe bringing him out of OP god strength from simply eating a few foods- to having to do other stuff- like for example picking up and lifting heavy objects like the marble statue pieces or the fallen boulders Antlion causes in caves 

(seriously Klei please let Wolfgang pick the boulders Antlion drops up and move them.. I’ve actually managed to be stuck in a cave because these darn things FELL right in the doorway as I was trying to exit a cave.. and there was nothing I could do except go find a different exit point)

Mighty Mode should be fun.. not just OP one punch stats.

But there are plenty of Wolfgang rework suggestion threads all over everywhere- and since I don’t main him, secondary main him, or even Third main him... then I feel like I have no liberty at all to suggest changes to him.

And therefore the ONLY thing I can do is compare him to the other reworks to provide a rough draft of how other characters have changed with their reworks- and how I predict he could as well.

[pedregales]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

[...]

My conclusion: Puny form Wolfgang will completely disappear altogether and there will only be average Wolfgang and Mighty Wolfgang forms- However there would obviously be balance changes to reflect upon that.. by maybe bringing him out of OP god strength from simply eating a few foods- to having to do other stuff- like for example picking up and lifting heavy objects like the marble statue pieces or the fallen boulders Antlion causes in caves 

(seriously Klei please let Wolfgang pick the boulders Antlion drops up and move them.. I’ve actually managed to be stuck in a cave because these darn things FELL right in the doorway as I was trying to exit a cave.. and there was nothing I could do except go find a different exit point)

[...]

Yeah, I also expect puny Wolfgang to go away.

However, you can move those antlion boulders you mention. They behave like the statues. You should have been able to pick it up and move it away?

[torauma]

If it aint broke dont fix it

[Pedro cc]

But what's the point of fire falseto. Rot>fire falseto (rot has more uses)

[Pine G]

I took my time testing her mechanics after her rework and as unfortunate as it is for me to admit, I find her rework slightly underwhelming. 

I love the concept of Inspiration and Stagecraft, her Battle songs are useful (though I would argue that Fireproof Falsetto needs a slight tweak), but overall these perks only meet their potential in a team setting, which is a direction I understand - she was already very good on her own. In fact, one may choose not to utilize them at all, and still her performance wouldn't be nearly that compromised (gameplay-wise of course, maybe her theatrical performance would be less a little less.. engaging), which is good enough, but I can't help but feel a bit disappointed. I'm not sure if I can offer a lot to make it better, though, without making her too complicated or making her too good. In the end, it's okay as it is, even though I wished there was more to it. 

[ShadowDuelist]

I did a quick solo ruins rush as Wigfrid in a public server yesterday. Its been literally years since the last time I played her seriously, and I quickly remembered how incredibly powerful she is. Not in raw damage output, but as a character as a whole.

If you know the mechanics of any other character at heart (like, kiting decently well) you can even avoid eating as much as wigfrid, I mean I spent long periods of the game starving on purpose, even I had food on me, just to quickly heal back up during fights and make foods last longer. You can also eat just cooked monster meat as well, with easy to bypass cons.

All of this comes from the Wigfrid that already was there, so I assume her getting smaller advantages in her rework, when compared to the rest of the reworks so far, was an okay move.

It also gives a hint of what could happen to Wolfgang and Wicker. 

[chirsg]

Wolfgang should not get nerfed when speaking about base power. 

If they decide to make his warly synergy additive instead of multiplicative, fine, that's not the worst solution to how he should behave. Make it so when he's powered up to the max, 1 wolfgang isn't the same as 6 characters on a wet opponent after eating dessert.

Wolfgang on his own isn't too powerful. This game isn't all fighting and it can get to be annoying having to feed him to keep him at base form. The most experienced wolfgang players don't stay in wimpy form because of the time it takes to get yourself out of danger in emergencies. When you get wimpy enough, bunnymen can outrun you, push each other to bite you and then you die because of how low your speed is.

Because of this flaw, wolfgangs prefer to stay above the wimpy threshold. it's easier to become mighty in a pinch, but even in base, he's eating 1.5x more than any other character not named warly.

and for about, give or take, 90% of the game, you won't be fighting. That's more work spent on gathering food to eat rather than doing chores at a rate that everyone else will do them at.

and if you decide to go wimpy, you're at some risk of emergency dangers where you need to upscale 2 forms to be able to handle danger and you're slower. less efficient that your run of the mill characters.

If you enjoy fighting in this game, wolfgang is your pick. especially in solo where threats were not meant to be handled by yourself. Having a character that can manage bosses on their own when players to tackle worlds with are absent is a fantastic thing to have.


But all in all, I truly think wolfgang without the warly synergy most importantly has his power grossly exaggerated. 

If klei decides to touch on any part of his power, I hope it's just patching over chaud froid 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

If you enjoy fighting in this game, wolfgang is your pick

I think is more like if you dont enjoy fighting in this game since the fights ends before you realize xD

[chirsg]

Back off. You're literally always on my case because because of a weird animosity you have with me. Leave your contrarian opinions at the door.

He's a fighting character and ends fights in time for the next one where other characters quite frankly won't really fill in gaps in between combat as efficiently as wolfgang can when it comes to materials. He jumps from one fight to another and that's what he's made for.

You do it with other characters and you're usually farming for more armor, weapons, healing because you're ending fights long after wolfgang is done with them. 

jesus christ, arubaro, logic, please. find something better to do than to creep on my posts.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, chirsg said:

Back off. You're literally always on my case because because of a weird animosity you have with me. Leave your contrarian opinions at the door.

He's a fighting character and ends fights in time for the next one where other characters quite frankly won't really fill in gaps in between combat as efficiently as wolfgang can when it comes to materials. He jumps from one fight to another and that's what he's made for.

You do it with other characters and you're usually farming for more armor, weapons, healing because you're ending fights long after wolfgang is done with them. 

jesus christ, arubaro, logic, please. find something better to do than to creep on my posts.

Wow what a ego

[chirsg]

Find someone else to latch onto. I'm not your wickerbottom. I'm just not that into you. move on.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, chirsg said:

Find someone else to latch onto. I'm not your wickerbottom. I'm just not that into you. move on.

Hahaha i quoted you a lot because you posted a lot. So i cant give my opinion because is against to yours? What a nazi. You arent the only one who i quote, you arent my kind of user

But if you post dumb things i will correct you like when you said that wigfrid has a huge downside (xddddddddddddddd) but i would quote that post whatever user post something like it

Ok, i let you keep crying for the idle. 

[Cheggf]

On 9/28/2020 at 3:38 PM, pedregales said:

I am not a Wolfgang main, but I personally think that would be lame. The Strongman (as his title calls him) should stay a combat focused character, otherwise he is not The Strongman.

He already, right now, is not purely combat focused because he has a movement speed buff. This makes him slightly better at everything and considerably better at exploration.

On 9/28/2020 at 3:38 PM, pedregales said:

However, I read in this forums that one of the devs said "yeah but he is still getting reworked" in response to someone saying Wolfgang was busted with volt goat jelly. If that is true, that sounds like a "nerf" is coming along.

Wolfgang paired with Wolfgang does more damage than a Wolfgang who's eaten VGJ. If the devs really understand their own game, which I hope and assume they do, they aren't nerfing Wolfgang. Or if they are nerfing Wolfgang it's at the same time that they're nerfing like half the roster, but due to all their reworks I'm assuming that isn't the case.

[Mike23Ua]

Hey guys- I think your forgetting that this thread isn’t about Wolfgang, It is actually the OPs opinion that Wigfrid was not refreshed.

And as far as I am concerned I Share the Ops opinion, I find her Rework to be the most Boring of them all.. And I mean no disrespect at all to the folks who worked on it, I just think that Willow got some fun new Ability when her Teddy enlarges to smash stuff, Woodie got some fun new abilities to both move faster as a Goose, and charge through a horde as a Moose, and Wendy got her own totally unique to her “Divining Rod” Mechanic where she has to help Pipspook to find lost stuff.

I promised I would not continue to bash Wigfrids rework (because I still feel the folks at Klei worked hard on it..) but at the same exact time- I am really sad by how the one Combat character who had the most potential to gain some cool new abilities wound up becoming the character with the least done to them.

And yeah maybe some of the forum veterans are right: Wigfrid was already a super powerful top pick: But that should NEVER have exempt her from gaining something new and something fun because she needed the least work done to her.

Fun does not equal to more OP.. Here I am playing this new free game Rouge Company as a Japanese chick with a Katana in a Shooter game.. meanwhile throwing my Katana at my enemies like a projectile- all while thinking to myself dang.. Wigfrid feels like a missed opportunity to be made even more fun to play as, I wanted Wigfrid to be able to throw Spears ever since hearing that she could do just exactly that in the FORGE event.. looooonnngggg Before Rouge Company was even a thought.. and Now- Playing as this sword throwing chick in RC just makes me Hella sad that I can not throw Spears as Wigfrid.

I understand that there were probably technical limitations that likely caused them to NOT give Wigfrid something cool & unique like this, and I also wouldn’t be surprised if someone at Klei comments on this post and confirms that they Did TRY to give her similar abilities but ultimately ran into complications implementing them and so they ended up scrapped.

Klei probably toys around with these ideas on a daily basis to see what will and won’t work in THEIR version of the game (Their version meaning a build that is probably near complete that WE the players won’t see for at least another 7 updates)

[AlternateMew]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Hey guys- I think your forgetting that this thread isn’t about Wolfgang, It is actually the OPs opinion that Wigfrid was not refreshed.

And as far as I am concerned I Share the Ops opinion, I find her Rework to be the most Boring of them all.. And I mean no disrespect at all to the folks who worked on it, I just think that Willow got some fun new Ability when her Teddy enlarges to smash stuff, Woodie got some fun new abilities to both move faster as a Goose, and charge through a horde as a Moose, and Wendy got her own totally unique to her “Divining Rod” Mechanic where she has to help Pipspook to find lost stuff.

I promised I would not continue to bash Wigfrids rework (because I still feel the folks at Klei worked hard on it..) but at the same exact time- I am really sad by how the one Combat character who had the most potential to gain some cool new abilities wound up becoming the character with the least done to them.

Nah, this is a thread specifically for discussing just that, it's an appropriate place for opinions on the latest update.

And as a general statement, I also agree.

- I like that base Wigfrid is completely untouched.
- I like that the animation was AWESOME and the animators/storytellers need ALL the praise for this one
- I like that her refresh made use of the fact that shes an actress, not a real genuine Valkyrie
- I like the examination quotes and crafting recipes.

- I dislike that her refresh as a whole is so... meh. It's nothing but minor boss battle buffs where most of them are so minor that why even bother?

[Mike23Ua]

Okay well if it is okay- I would like to share some of my ideas and opinions, okay so I play On Console- This is vitally important to my systems actual capabilities with the game> Meaning that long lasting worlds with tons of stuff going on in them lag down to the point of becoming unplayable.

Wigfrids Refresh did very little in the way of improving her, now I don’t wish to discuss her “Songs” what I want to discuss is my CURRENT saved world where I intentionally throw down hundreds of low % durability Helms and Spears to just create new ones.

To the best of my knowledge NONE of Wigfrids songs repair durability of her weapons, and to juggle these low % Helms and Spears around inside my inventory alongside the newly crafted 100% ones is unnecessary storage clutter.

They can’t be burned, they can’t be repaired and most importantly of all all they effectively CAN do is help speed up the process of unnecessary world clutter that can end up causing my Xbox to lag more.

Now here’s the part I DONT get: When Wigfrid kills an Enemy she vampires stats off of them for health and sanity and you will visually see little wings float up off the foes you have slain.

My one and only Question is why didn’t Wigfrids rework do anything to prevent the hundreds of abandoned nearly destroyed Spears and Helms laying all over the map? 

I do have a Suggestion to fix that but it’s a suggestion that would require Klei to do probably tons of testing on to see if it ends up becoming “too good” of a perk for her.

What if.. in the same way she slays foes and sees their spirits float away, she could “Absorb” the power of helmets and Spears that are left laying around to “Vampire” durability back onto the ones that are being carried by her (and maybe not even by much.. 2% durability vampirism would work.)

Now before you go crying that would be insanely OP here’s the catch- it ONLY Applies to Her Helms and Spears

So you can’t just craft 500 helms and Spears to keep your dark sword or strident trident at 100% durability all the time by exploiting it.

What this WOULD do however is help any struggling noobie Wigfrid who comes across dropped nearly destroyed helms and Spears of a veteran Wigfrid because instead of picking up those 3% helms- It absorbs that durability into the one on their head.. and most importantly just like slaying foes shows the little unicorn spirit leaving the item and it perishes from your world.

Yes I know that people use Lureplants to rid their worlds of items like this but it would be a heck of a lot more convenient If you simply absorbed nearly destroyed Helms & Spears like Wortox absorbs souls.

Of course the Alternative to this is to create a new mob that cleans up left over clutter laying around everywhere or to simply let them burn away to ashes, which would also fix the current massive amounts of 2% Spears and helms laying around issue I’m currently running into.. an issue I quickly became aware of when Wigfrid got her refresh and all 6 players in the server were all Wigfrids.

Please at least consider a fix for this.. I was hopeful that Wigfrids Refresh would have addressed some of these situations like this- The people who said Wigfrid was fine and didn’t need any changes are judging that decision based entirely off how Wigfrid played in SINGLE PLAYER Don’t Starve..

These Helms and Spears left laying around everywhere can really add up over time to bog an Xbox or PS4 console down.

I could walk around using them till they deplete themselves I guess- but really I wish Wigfrid could Absorb or Repair them.

[Nikki Darks]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay well if it is okay- I would like to share some of my ideas and opinions, okay so I play On Console- This is vitally important to my systems actual capabilities with the game> Meaning that long lasting worlds with tons of stuff going on in them lag down to the point of becoming unplayable.

Wigfrids Refresh did very little in the way of improving her, now I don’t wish to discuss her “Songs” what I want to discuss is my CURRENT saved world where I intentionally throw down hundreds of low % durability Helms and Spears to just create new ones.

To the best of my knowledge NONE of Wigfrids songs repair durability of her weapons, and to juggle these low % Helms and Spears around inside my inventory alongside the newly crafted 100% ones is unnecessary storage clutter.

They can’t be burned, they can’t be repaired and most importantly of all all they effectively CAN do is help speed up the process of unnecessary world clutter that can end up causing my Xbox to lag more.

Now here’s the part I DONT get: When Wigfrid kills an Enemy she vampires stats off of them for health and sanity and you will visually see little wings float up off the foes you have slain.

My one and only Question is why didn’t Wigfrids rework do anything to prevent the hundreds of abandoned nearly destroyed Spears and Helms laying all over the map? 

I do have a Suggestion to fix that but it’s a suggestion that would require Klei to do probably tons of testing on to see if it ends up becoming “too good” of a perk for her.

What if.. in the same way she slays foes and sees their spirits float away, she could “Absorb” the power of helmets and Spears that are left laying around to “Vampire” durability back onto the ones that are being carried by her (and maybe not even by much.. 2% durability vampirism would work.)

Now before you go crying that would be insanely OP here’s the catch- it ONLY Applies to Her Helms and Spears

So you can’t just craft 500 helms and Spears to keep your dark sword or strident trident at 100% durability all the time by exploiting it.

What this WOULD do however is help any struggling noobie Wigfrid who comes across dropped nearly destroyed helms and Spears of a veteran Wigfrid because instead of picking up those 3% helms- It absorbs that durability into the one on their head.. and most importantly just like slaying foes shows the little unicorn spirit leaving the item and it perishes from your world.

Yes I know that people use Lureplants to rid their worlds of items like this but it would be a heck of a lot more convenient If you simply absorbed nearly destroyed Helms & Spears like Wortox absorbs souls.

Of course the Alternative to this is to create a new mob that cleans up left over clutter laying around everywhere or to simply let them burn away to ashes, which would also fix the current massive amounts of 2% Spears and helms laying around issue I’m currently running into.. an issue I quickly became aware of when Wigfrid got her refresh and all 6 players in the server were all Wigfrids.

Please at least consider a fix for this.. I was hopeful that Wigfrids Refresh would have addressed some of these situations like this- The people who said Wigfrid was fine and didn’t need any changes are judging that decision based entirely off how Wigfrid played in SINGLE PLAYER Don’t Starve..

These Helms and Spears left laying around everywhere can really add up over time to bog an Xbox or PS4 console down.

I could walk around using them till they deplete themselves I guess- but really I wish Wigfrid could Absorb or Repair them.

Just give helmets to pigmen. Plant a lureplant and use up low durability weapons on the lureplant. Or if you want, deconstruction staff. Pretty easy to deal with low durability items.

[SloveniaFisherm]

Wigfrid was refreshed, she just wasnt reworked much (like the majority of the players hoped she wont be changed too much so thats good imo, she was already near a perfect character, this literally just added stuff to her)

 

I agree that the fire book is lame but eh whatever

 

Edit: I would have LOVED if she got some fighting abilities apart from books though, like her in forge or something. 

[pedregales]

On 10/4/2020 at 9:43 AM, Cheggf said:

He already, right now, is not purely combat focused because he has a movement speed buff. This makes him slightly better at everything and considerably better at exploration.

Wolfgang paired with Wolfgang does more damage than a Wolfgang who's eaten VGJ. If the devs really understand their own game, which I hope and assume they do, they aren't nerfing Wolfgang. Or if they are nerfing Wolfgang it's at the same time that they're nerfing like half the roster, but due to all their reworks I'm assuming that isn't the case.

He is still a combat focused character though. The speed buff isn't even coded in, but is a side-effect of increasing the model's size. That is the first "nerf" I expect to see.

I don't know what the nerf could be though. I just said the wording seems to imply a nerf. So, who knows what they have in store for Wolfgang.

[Mike23Ua]

Plants vs Zombies: Battle for Neighborville summarizes exactly how Wigfrid should feel about her refresh into a TL:DR- 

[Starlogy]

19 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

snip

bro just use the items, its not hard

[Toros]

On 10/4/2020 at 8:43 AM, Cheggf said:

Wolfgang paired with Wolfgang does more damage than a Wolfgang who's eaten VGJ. If the devs really understand their own game, which I hope and assume they do, they aren't nerfing Wolfgang. Or if they are nerfing Wolfgang it's at the same time that they're nerfing like half the roster, but due to all their reworks I'm assuming that isn't the case.

This post is flat out wrong.  VGJ can confer 3x damage which is then doubled by Wolfgang to hit 6x damage.

Two Wolfgangs without VGJ top out at 4x damage.

A Wolfgang and a Warly can achieve a total of 9x damage.

There’s absolutely room to nerf Wolfgang, refresh his mechanics to not be a big ball of stats, and have him be better for it.

Sounds like you have a bigger issue of not understanding the game than the devs do.