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Let's talk early game water sterilization


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I've been playing again recently. In very short bursts because it's my current game to play on the treadmill.

I don't have plastic yet, and I'd like to sterilize my water (for a variety of reasons). My past sterilization setups were a bit unreliable before I could make germ sensors to test for germs in the pipe that manage to evade the chlorine somehow.

"Somehow" mainly being germy water that sits in pipes. I thought the answer to that one was reservoirs on airlock doors. That used to disable reservoir output BEFORE it entered the pipe. Shutoff-valve systems cannot do anything about the pipe segments between the reservoir and the shutoff valve.

I built a 3-tank rotating system. It didn't work. Tanks are supposed to cycle between intake / wait for sterilization / output. The tank in "rest" mode had an open airlock door below it, and yet still output its very germy contents. Disabling reservoirs this way appears to be no longer reliable.

What's the current thinking, for pre-plastic systems? The most obvious one to me is a dilution system, where the tanks (3 or more) are kept full at all times. If you prime the system by filling the tanks and then waiting until they're sterile, and you connect the tank in series, the germs entering tank #1 are substantially diluted as they move to tank #2, and then further diluted as water moves to tank #3. Etc. Chlorine kills some in each tank, but mostly it's the dilution effect. Some germs are still going to escape, but probably not enough to cause a problem if they enter a water tank (provided it's clean rather than polluted water).

This should be a lot easier to do now that reservoirs signal when they're full.

I'd still prefer something a little more reliable, but that's the first solution that comes to mind.

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Germ sensor goes before the reservoir input, which is set to below 0 for detecting when water is safe to output. Add a filter gate set to the amount of pipe segments in your reservoir loop that feeds back into itself +x seconds , to be safe and make sure an entire loop of clean water is ready. Reservoir controls germy water input. The germy water input should have priority over the feedback loop. Set it to something less than 100% of full, so it will stop accepting new germy water when nearly full, but keep buffer space for your feedback loop/germ sensor to keep flowing. New germy water is not accepted until the low setpoint, which can be 0.

A second reservoir of clean only water can be added inside or outside your chlorine room to buffer clean water, since it will probably take some time for the reservoir to fill up with germy water and be cleared of germs again before outputting anything.

Edit: I derped and completely missed the bit about not having plastic. Please ignore ><

Just hold the water in a tank for a cycle after it stops getting new germy water, stop the germy water input, and don't accept any new germy water until all the clean water is output. You can use liquid shutoffs instead of doors.

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If you are looking for a "no plastic" solution then string reservoirs in a chain like in my screenshots.  Automate the airlock to close when the first reservoir is 100% full and open when it's 99% full

These can take time to fill and you need to start with clean PW so germs don't get stuck in the pipes.  Best to fill using nearby swamp pools before switching to germy PW from bathrooms and/or geysers

depending on how much germs you need to disinfect determines how many reservoirs you need.  For example 3 will do for most bathroom setups.  But if you are drawing PW from an infected geyser then it would be safer to use 5 or 6 reservoirs

This works even with a 10kg/s flow rate

20200729022724_1.thumb.jpg.6f678a43e56a5e4162a62e76e241f445.jpg20200729022830_1.thumb.jpg.f130341dda3a23747c791a631fec15c8.jpg20200729022801_1.thumb.jpg.8530e3d5e73d5b71c88137ca21974263.jpg

Still if you can ranch Glossy Dreckos early it's worth the plastic

I've been able to make a bathroom loop that supplies 2 washrooms, 1 shower room, and a hospital with just 1 reservoir in chlorine

20200729024911_1.thumb.jpg.bbd304c3f4655908ff97792d9a03d243.jpgbath2.thumb.png.85aba704f4b2d2bcb349e68a9b174b17.pngbath1.thumb.png.3282bc385e49a5d65d68d653717d588a.png

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Or you use the new automation ports on the reservoirs to trigger the shutoff, when input reservoir is almost full, and just prime the system a little with clean water, to fill the pipe between last (left) reservoir in line and shutoff.

Desinfector3.png.791e76a20789fe348d5e983f2f475cf9.png 

Automation is simple here, connect the reservoir on the right with the shutoff (NOT-Gated, i think). So it is very similar to @Neotucks solution with more width, but less height.

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That is what I use - 

you may see 3 water tanks (on top part of picture). First tank constantly receive polluted water with germs. After it I set automation valve with switch (small circle). Next you may see 2 water tanks, where germs-killing procedure happens. Output of this 2 tanks protected by 2 automation valves (large circle). First automation valve connected with switch directly, and it responsible for releasing non-germs water outside. Second valve connected to switch through "NOT GATE", and redirect water to 2nd water tank. So, if water have germs, it constantly travel between 2nd and 3rd water tanks in chlorine. In early game (no plastic) I set there automation switch, and just wait while all germs will be killed, and then release clean water. 

After I got plastic, first valve become obsolete, second switch should be replaced with microbic-pipe filter.

germs.jpg

 

Think I build this around 20-30 cycle, before of this I just dump water "anywhere".

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If you don't need 10K throughput, you can use this simple design:

242480128_Screenshot2020-07-29at10_15_56.thumb.png.0393191fd90445a79f6ea14eb904be8d.png

Piping: polluted water comes from top main pipe through shutoff to reservoir,  where is disinfected, cleaned in sieve, and leaves to the right.

574866110_Screenshot2020-07-29at10_16_11.thumb.png.be8ac509c2060d312c63a644bf40de51.png

Automation opens door to disable reservoir for disinfection and opens shutoff for filling. Reservoir setting is (95,0), upper gate is 15s, lower gate is 150s.

1003041585_Screenshot2020-07-29at10_16_23.thumb.png.b2aa6bb2060fc6f1255b00e60bd75403.png

If you have only chorine in room it is 100% safe and bullet-proof. For max  efficiency it is good to addd reservoir/pool for clean water to empty the system once water is cleaned. Since most time is consumed on filling/emptying reservoir, throughput is around 4.3K/s. You can also add second reservoir with similar design, both switching between filling/emptying on the same sieve to have doubled throughput around 8.5K/s, but I am playing on MiniBase now :)

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I understand how it works, however, think it is bit dangerous or not effective. Think Better replace it with switch. May be I'm wrong. However, if it work 

Quote

100% safe and bullet-proof

really nice and simple.

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Early game, like early early game you generally avoid it.  Keep a water loop in your bathroom plumbing.  Any excess polluted cleaned water gets sent off to things that don't care about germs.

Neotucks first image is very reliable once you can set it up.  Not all that much refined metal.

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I decided awhile ago to switch to a design that was plastic-free:

image.thumb.png.350b9453768c4a2df088d57aa43c2532.png

image.thumb.png.50b379930cf7f42c2ce3d9599347efde.png

image.thumb.png.799442cc95cc026fd0a28f8138b561a8.png

PW gets disinfected as it travels the reservoirs.  Packet-stacker makes sure only full packets enter.  Automation makes sure that the same number of packets enters and leaves keeping the reservoirs full.  Works on PW with millions of germs being pumped in non-stop.  2 water sieves deals with non-stop flow.  Sieves never get germs, polluted dirt is germ-free.

The only way to break it is to introduce non-PW liquids which gums up the packet-stacker.

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Related questions - does the amount of chlorine in the room matter, or will any amount kill germs at the same rate?  And does it work faster if the bottom of the tank is exposed to chlorine via an open door or airflow tiles?

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1 minute ago, Tuplex said:

Related questions - does the amount of chlorine in the room matter, or will any amount kill germs at the same rate?  And does it work faster if the bottom of the tank is exposed to chlorine via an open door or airflow tiles?

No to the amount of chlorine and no to the bottom exposure. Just have the whole building in chlorine (no other gases).

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1 hour ago, Tuplex said:

Related questions - does the amount of chlorine in the room matter, or will any amount kill germs at the same rate?  And does it work faster if the bottom of the tank is exposed to chlorine via an open door or airflow tiles?

 

1 hour ago, angrybovine said:

No to the amount of chlorine and no to the bottom exposure. Just have the whole building in chlorine (no other gases).

 

Theoretically all you *need* is to have the tile with the automation port in chlorine.  So in theory just a layer of chlorine along the bottom of the room would work, in practice it's best to have the room only have chlorine to avoid coming back later and wondering why all your chlorine got deleted.  If the room has a sieve in it, you *must* fill it to over 1800g pressure in every tile, I'd go for >2k just to be safe.  This is to suppress off gassing from the polluted dirt which will cause your chlorine to get deleted eventually.

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What I now use is a sieve that gets timed to run only after the sitting water is germ free and before the bathroom gets used again. Output piping needs to be long enough to buffer enough water for one cycle. This has worked very reliable and well and allows you to do it with even only one tank if desired.

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13 hours ago, Gus Smedstad said:

Some germs are still going to escape

AFAIK none will escape at 3 reservoirs without editing abnormally high germ counts in, and surely none will pass through 4.

Every time this comes up, I never understand why there are any other suggestions besides the one you are talking about. No automation, 10kg/s throughput and simple as can be.

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I like to build something like this:

1012422802_ChlorineRoom(singletankontimer)1.thumb.jpg.c2c137d192dcc97f875e7b59cb9f0edf.jpg

1067355353_ChlorineRoom(singletankontimer)2.thumb.jpg.85fd32f20644c5a61ee5bd12a5b2140b.jpg

 

  • The cycle sensors allow in water for a bit and then let it sit in the tank for most of the day
  • The pitcher pump allows you to mop any kind of water of polluted water and recycle it
  • The automatic dispenser can drop slime, algae and bleach stone into the chamber. Needs be sweep only! You could also drop down the polluted dirt into there if you don't want to compost it (generally it is more useful as pokeshell food).
  • Make sure it has ca. 2 kg/chlorine to the slime doesn't gas off. I generally use a canister emptier for that
  • A wheezewort can cool down the sieve if you want to. Alternatively place down a bin with sand.
  • The left tank is not strictly necessary. It buffers incoming water when the reservoir is closed. That way the toilets are certain to never back up. But the buffer in the pipes is usually enough
  • The picture is with a mod that puts the toilet/sink output in the bottom I think. So the piping may confusing in vanilla
  • Set the bottom left door to go right only. So they wash their hands on the way out

In the past I used a three tank design with a germ sensor that looped back germy water. Works too, but this is easier

 

 

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1 hour ago, nakomaru said:

AFAIK none will escape at 3 reservoirs without editing abnormally high germ counts in, and surely none will pass through 4.

I've seen PW geysers have over 10 million per tile so it can happen.  But ya 4 should be enough.  5 is safest.  6 or more is overkill

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All your "just three reservoirs 10K/s full flow no automation" designs have one very simple problem: they can fail if polluted water source is not continuous, important bit being - they can fail, therefore they will fail. Only some kind of automation (timer/sensor/reservoir - whatever) guarantees no germs ever.

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13 minutes ago, nessumo said:

All your "just three reservoirs 10K/s full flow no automation" designs have one very simple problem: they can fail if polluted water source is not continuous, important bit being - they can fail, therefore they will fail. Only some kind of automation (timer/sensor/reservoir - whatever) guarantees no germs ever.

Agree, and it doesn't take much automation to do it, all you need is the wire.  If the first tank starts to empty and reached 99% full, the door opens preventing all tanks from emptying further 

This makes sure you only get the same amount of clean PW out as infected PW in

20200729022801_1.thumb.jpg.635aa0162aed19803d2722f099f21950.jpg

 

 

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