Who is the hardest boss in your opinion and why?

[OMGkawaiiAngel]

I'd personally say that it's Toadstool, he has an insane healthpool, constantly spawns "trees" that can make him immortal if you don't chop them fast enough, and spoils your food so you can't use a ham-bat and have to go to the nearest ice-box to heal yourself.

[bruhmoment23]

Pond frogs.

[Lucenix]

Crab King does have unique ways of fighting him but I haven't encountered him yet to see if he's hard or not really.

[OMGkawaiiAngel]

Just now, Lucenix said:

Crab King does have unique ways of fighting him but I haven't encountered him yet to see if he's hard or not really.

Oh! I knew I forgot someone!

At least it's very easy to "cheese" the Ancient Fuelweaver, right? Use an eye-turret and lure plants, and stand back for... 20 minutes? to watch the turret do its magic. 

[Lucenix]

17 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said:

Oh! I knew I forgot someone!

Charlie... You just added him! Or did he exist all along... Did a new piece of the moon fall, or has it fallen since the begging? Hesh, so many questions.

18 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said:

At least it's very easy to "cheese" the Ancient Fuelweaver, right? Use an eye-turret and lure plants, and stand back for... 20 minutes? to watch the turret do its magic. 

Yeah, as far as I know there isn't any way to cheese the big toad. Then again, should cheeses even count in this discussion?

[Pikapikap]

Mosquitoes in the swamp.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

If we talk of killing them without any chesse i guess that DF and FW

DF because freezen the larvaes could be so hard because there will be a lot of warm sources that will prevent these to freeze so you can be arround of larvaes and dragonfly hitting you until death

FW his mechanics and the way you have to fight him is so different that cost, atleast for me, a lot of practise to do the fight a little clean. Also he has a huge healing so if you fail the fight can became impossible if you run out of gear before he dies

[pedregales]

This usually depends. Take in account I have not tried the FW or Crab King. BTW, I am assuming you are "perfectly prepared" for each fight.

Enraged Klaus is easily one of the hardest if not the hardest. But otherwise he is pretty much easier than Deerclops.

Bee Queen is very hard to deal with because of her honey trail and minions. But Dragonfly does a a lot more damage in normal circumstances (not counting enraged form), plus has lava pools nearby.

Toadstool biggest difficulty is that he has a ton of health, making the battle extremely long and tiresome. Also the mushroom trees he summons, but fortunately there is something to deal with that. Defeated him once and never again due to how boring the fight was.

So... I guess dragonfly?

BTW, I know she barely counts as a boss, but you forgot Spider Queen. And also Malbatross.

[Duck986]

Ancient Fuelweaver, because you need to do many things simultaneously: heal, eat, equip nightmare amulet to destroy shadow hands, unequip it to wear armor and continue fighting, use a weather pain to destroy woven shadows, equip lazy explorer to teleport from bone cage, etc. And you need to do so throughout all of his 16k hp.

 

What about Crab King... Its "hole-in-boat-making" attack can be interrupted with ice staffs, everything else is easily defeated.

 

i don't count enraged bosses like misery toadstool (cuz it's just a usual toadstool but it takes more time to defeat) and enraged klaus (because who in their right mind will fight with him?)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

55 minutes ago, pedregales said:

This usually depends. Take in account I have not tried the FW or Crab King. BTW, I am assuming you are "perfectly prepared" for each fight.

Enraged Klaus is easily one of the hardest if not the hardest. But otherwise he is pretty much easier than Deerclops.

Bee Queen is very hard to deal with because of her honey trail and minions. But Dragonfly does a a lot more damage in normal circumstances (not counting enraged form), plus has lava pools nearby.

Toadstool biggest difficulty is that he has a ton of health, making the battle extremely long and tiresome. Also the mushroom trees he summons, but fortunately there is something to deal with that. Defeated him once and never again due to how boring the fight was.

So... I guess dragonfly?

BTW, I know she barely counts as a boss, but you forgot Spider Queen. And also Malbatross.

i really enjoy toadstool fight, is so original and i hope that,eventually, klei will add more fights with tools required (when a pick axe fight?!1?!)

[Lovely Roses]

Misery toadstool,

to be fair I only ever tried to fight him once with 5 other people but it when so horribly wrong.

 

[OMGkawaiiAngel]

53 minutes ago, Lovely Roses said:

Misery toadstool,

to be fair I only ever tried to fight him once with 5 other people but it when so horribly wrong.

 

No survivors...?

[Yuuko]

Considering all cheese that I know about I think Misery Toadstool (or even just Toadstool) requires the most set up to completely automate, and leaves the most to do with a minimal set up.

AFW - 2 lure plants and 1 houndous shootious can clear him.  Takes about 2-3 days in game, but pretty easy set up.  Each time you repeat you can add another shootious to speed things up until it takes less than a day XD

Bee Queen - a bit more setup, but I've got a fully automated build for her.  The worst materials are dfly scales and starcaller, not that hard really.

Dragonfly - the fight is pretty easy with a simple wall, but if you add catapults anyone can clear her SUPER easy.  Just be ready with a pan flute.

Bearger - walk around until enough tree guards spawn to take him out.  I usually clear the first bearger, and teleport the 2nd one to a small island so I never have to deal with him again.

Deerclops - same as bearger, but you gotta take her on a walk every year.  I like to plant long rows of pinecones to prep for her.

M/goose - If you're luck to get a frog rain the fight can be done auto for you.  If you're worried about mosslings you can set up anenemies or make night raids to thin the herd first.

Antlion - is just lols, but you can set up catapults or shootious to help make it even faster if you want.  Not a bad investment since the respawn is the same location every year.  Just be careful you don't get pushed out of the arena, antlion can wreck structures if given a reason to attack something further away. XD

Klaus - a lure plant, a few wall pieces and signs, or fossils.  Maybe pan flute or blow darts for when krampus spawns.

Ancient Guardian - tuck behind a pillar and count your hits (or use health mod), just push him out before he dies so you don't lose horn.

Crab King - as we've seen bees can be used very effectively for this fight.

---------

Toadstool however - you can do a minimal set up with several flingos and dwarf stars, but you'll still be chopping trees and swinging swords for about 6 days in game (more for misery,) and all of his attacks still function so you're dodging boom shrooms, ground slams, and poison sacks the whole time.  If you want to fully automate you can build out walls to block sporecap growth, and trap him with (at least) 4 shootious which is a LOT of walls and several times through the FW / ruins resets, and several years in game for eyeballs.  I heard there is a way to force his respawn point, but I don't know it - without being able to force his respawn you would need to set up 3 times for him too...  Its still quite doable but yeah, extreme set up.  So I put toad as #1 nuisance including cheese.

[Lovely Roses]

1 hour ago, Charlie Dark said:

No survivors...?

Well sort of, we all died more than once but we were using a mod so we could revive ourselves. The two main problems were that his heathpool is massive and we weren't getting anywhere, and we spawned him in the overworld via console commands so he destroyed are base... long story short the host had to use a rollback because of the damage.       

[GetNerfedOn]

Fuelweaver for reasons already mentioned.

Enraged Klaus comes second due to his nigh-invincibility and unique kite pattern - though as a consequence of playor error in the klaus fight he's supposed to be avoided and therefore not encountered as much

Misery toadstool is third for me because it has the same pattern despite the high healthpool

[PasssionFish]

Nightmare throne 

[Moonatik]

On console, the fuelweaver. As I watched some videos, I was really ready for it (solo), but it's a nightmare with a controller. Not for changing stuff when you have to. The reason is: Aim the good target. When you're in the cage, you can't target minions when they're far. Sometimes I clicked the attack button, but it makes my character running in the cage. And if I go straight to them when they're close to the FW, I hit the FW instead of minions and his shield ejects me while he's eating 3 or 4...

The lazy explorer is hard too because you can't choose the exact point to reappear, so few meters and he's eating more. I tried 3 times, and you won't believe it but each time lasted 25 MINUTES. I stopped not because I was dead but because I had no more stuff. And as I wanted to reset the ruins, I used a lure plant and I just hit him stuck on the door. 2 players would be doable. Too bad.

 

The blue gems crabking for the reasons I explained somewhere else. Freezing him is very hard and his freeze attack is deadful. And I ask it here again, did someone beat him solo on full blue gems ?

[Owlrust]

I hate how you can only get the napsack from Misery Toadstool (not even from Klaus' Loot Stash at all), and you almost need to cheese the fight in order to beat him on your own. All in all just a tedious fight in my opinion.

[phantiendat2102]

11 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Considering all cheese that I know about I think Misery Toadstool (or even just Toadstool) requires the most set up to completely automate, and leaves the most to do with a minimal set up.

AFW - 2 lure plants and 1 houndous shootious can clear him.  Takes about 2-3 days in game, but pretty easy set up.  Each time you repeat you can add another shootious to speed things up until it takes less than a day XD

Bee Queen - a bit more setup, but I've got a fully automated build for her.  The worst materials are dfly scales and starcaller, not that hard really.

Dragonfly - the fight is pretty easy with a simple wall, but if you add catapults anyone can clear her SUPER easy.  Just be ready with a pan flute.

Bearger - walk around until enough tree guards spawn to take him out.  I usually clear the first bearger, and teleport the 2nd one to a small island so I never have to deal with him again.

Deerclops - same as bearger, but you gotta take her on a walk every year.  I like to plant long rows of pinecones to prep for her.

M/goose - If you're luck to get a frog rain the fight can be done auto for you.  If you're worried about mosslings you can set up anenemies or make night raids to thin the herd first.

Antlion - is just lols, but you can set up catapults or shootious to help make it even faster if you want.  Not a bad investment since the respawn is the same location every year.  Just be careful you don't get pushed out of the arena, antlion can wreck structures if given a reason to attack something further away. XD

Klaus - a lure plant, a few wall pieces and signs, or fossils.  Maybe pan flute or blow darts for when krampus spawns.

Ancient Guardian - tuck behind a pillar and count your hits (or use health mod), just push him out before he dies so you don't lose horn.

Crab King - as we've seen bees can be used very effectively for this fight.

---------

Toadstool however - you can do a minimal set up with several flingos and dwarf stars, but you'll still be chopping trees and swinging swords for about 6 days in game (more for misery,) and all of his attacks still function so you're dodging boom shrooms, ground slams, and poison sacks the whole time.  If you want to fully automate you can build out walls to block sporecap growth, and trap him with (at least) 4 shootious which is a LOT of walls and several times through the FW / ruins resets, and several years in game for eyeballs.  I heard there is a way to force his respawn point, but I don't know it - without being able to force his respawn you would need to set up 3 times for him too...  Its still quite doable but yeah, extreme set up.  So I put toad as #1 nuisance including cheese.

Theres a better cheesy way, you can freeze him then place fossil pieces underneath to push him or just push him with lag compensation off til hes far enough from his hole. After that place 2 lureplant bulbs to block his way back and kill him with hambat cause he wont be attacking any more ( still spawn mushtrees tho ). The best part is that you can use 4 depth worms to do the damage instead

[TheGoldenDonut_]

The Bee Queen is just a big mess to fight. At least the Feulweaver isn't untouchable.

[BeeClops]

How did this thread turn into a cheeses thread? I think it's obvious cheeses don't count in the discussion, every single boss can be cheesed but i don't think that is the point of this thread. Personally i don't see how anyone but AF could win this . As far as toad goes, decently good players can solo him in the first autumn fairly easily without much cheese. 

[Yuuko]

20 minutes ago, BeeClops said:

How did this thread turn into a cheeses thread? I think it's obvious cheeses don't count in the discussion, every single boss can be cheesed but i don't think that is the point of this thread. Personally i don't see how anyone but AF could win this . As far as toad goes, decently good players can solo him in the first autumn fairly easily without much cheese. 

Because quite frankly - everything is cheese.  Building a wall for dfly is cheese, building a road for bee queen is cheese, using weather pain on sporecaps, using a pillar to dodge bone cage, all cheese.  Its too subjective to pin down what is cheese and what isn't.  You can use the weather pain to clear the woven shadows, or you can lure the fuelweaver away from them, either way you're exploiting the system.  The only difference is your opinion on the matter.

Hell - picking Wolfgang for speed runs is the #1 cheese strat.  With speed boost, and 2x damage literally no other character can even compete.  Ever see someone post a speed run without Wolfgang?  Even watching a speed run could be considered cheese because you didn't come up with the strat yourself O_O

Since cheese is subjective, I think any conversation about what bosses are "hardest" must also include any cheese elements which can be applied to them.  It would be dishonest not to, because then everyone is drawing their own obscure line to define what is acceptable.  Someone would say "dfly is worse" because without walls or a pan flute she is a pain, another would say "yeah but build a wall and use a pan flute."  A common tactic, but is that cheese?  And while you're building those walls and pan flutes, say you install some catapults...  are we somehow going to far?  You can't say the catapult isn't being used as intended...  Now that we're building catapults, say we build 32 catapults around bee queen and literally stand there and watch her die without attacking even once, still valid?  Now instead of watching her die to catapults, we watch her die to something else.  Its a different approach with different resources but the end result is the same.  We've prepared our strategy as such that we can just stand there and watch her die.  Now we do this to toad or fuelweaver...  Its a natural progression.  Humans didn't get where we are today by ignoring all available knowledge and refusing to leverage the most efficient tactics for our advantage.

So yeah, its dishonest to not mention all cheese.  You don't have to do every tactic yourself, its your game to play as you wish.

[Yuuko]

On 5/20/2020 at 10:06 PM, Ryne21 said:

The best part is that you can use 4 depth worms to do the damage instead

Dude - this was exactly what I needed to hear.  I didn't catch it the first time, so I went in with some lureplants and fossils and tried it out.  Getting him locked behind the lureplants was a lot easier than I thought, but I didn't have the dps to take him out before the eyeplants started sprouting out.  I built a little depthsworm pin nearby and trapped 4 depthworms in it.  After getting toad stuck I lured them over and used a snurtle shell to de-agro them from me.  With those guys dps I got him done in less than 2 days.  Thanks a bunch~!

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

 

But you cant compare making a fight a little easy to just staying afk or just preshing F because the boss is all the time freeze because of ice flingo. It has no sense for the question. Then all the bosses are easier than spiders

And i think the question must be answere thinking in the desing of the boss because i can say "nah, i put god mode is so easy this game" and the question will still without an answere

Someone can make a thread to ask which bosses takes more resources to cheese.

Because answering that AG is easier than deerclops just because klei in 10 years didnt fix the arena is not a legit answere.

And using a weapon like weather pain is not cheese, is a weapon lel. Then using dark swork is cheese too because has more damage than spear. Makes the fight so easy? Yes, someone puts a gun to use 10 of them? No.

Its like DF, there is nothing loable on rushing him with 20 pig skin and 38282441 blue berries if you also made a wall. Its like "ey i rush treeguard on day 20 huehuehue". You can be proud if you kill her with no walls and no panflaute in the same day because that fight will need skill too not only holding F and counting to 6

Is good to have ways to make the game easier or harder but answering with all cheese is usefull and curious but not a real answere because if all is 0 difficultt then the question has no sense. When the question should be about mechanics not how much time it can be freeze with an iceflingo

Ofc player will do tactics to make the fight easier but that is not part of the question. If you play solo ofc you will make bee queen finght more safe or Dragonfly in a way to dont be death easily, you have to farm them in a long term world

 

At the end its like if i said" they are all easy because i use blow darts and gunpowder. They dont touch me"

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

And i think the question must be answere thinking in the desing of the boss because i can say "nah, i put god mode is so easy this game" and the question will still without an answere

That's a bit of a stawman isn't it?  You can't enter a public game, without admin, and get god mode.

7 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Is good to have ways to make the game easier or harder but answering with all cheese is usefull and curious but not a real answere because if all is 0 difficultt then the question has no sense. When the question should be about mechanics not how much time it can be freeze with an iceflingo

The first speed run on Crab King I saw was Wolfgang using warly food to boost damage, and using ice staff to cancel Crab King freeze attack.  Is it wrong to freeze an enemy?  Why is it only okay to use staff and not flingo?  Both exploit that freezing cancels a monsters attack.  If Klei didn't intend these monsters to get frozen they could make them all immune...

Cheese is about mechanics too.  Its about how monsters, structures, and other things in the world interact and how we can exploit this interaction.  Just like "skill ppl" exploit Wolfgang to get 2x damage and speed boost, and exploit Weatherpain to cut sporecaps or woven shadow.  The only question is how easy you want to make it.  Its entirely subjective.

Bottom line is - provided it is something you can do in the game, then its there.  Until Klei changes it.