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What is sailing supposed to be?


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So as of now the ocean is like 50% of the entire map and 75% of the ocean is still just sea stacks. I'm assuming that they'll add more stuff and so I decided to ask this question:

What part of the game sailing really is? Because to just get started you need quite a lot of resuorces if you want everything (boat, oar, sail, anchoar, stearig wheel and boat patches) and on top of that you need to plan your exhibitions so that hounds don't kill you. This makes sailing definitelly not something that you do early game.

So if it's a mid game content then there're also these questions: Is cookie cuter hat better than football helmet? Is Salt Box better than Ice Box? Are Glass tools better than Golden Axe and Dark Sword? Will Stone Fruit bushes actually help your food situation?

Malbatros is also questionable as it's fight is quite problematic. Just to aggroo it (as I'm p-sure it's neutral and not hostile) you need some sort of range weapon cuz trying to get your boat to catch it is not worth it. All you get from killing it is an upgrade to the sail and oar. So Malbatros is only worth fighting if it's worth sailing.

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Not happy that the Malbatross is just another pointless optional boss, just like the Bee Queen, Toadstool, Shadows, Dragonfly, and Fuelweaver.

And again the only purpose of killing it is basically just vanity items that don't help you actually survive.

The Malbatross isn't a threat when sailing, it's a trophy.

 

Same goes for sailing and the moon island too, there's no SURVIVAL reason to actually do any of this new content so far.

The game needs WAY LESS vanity, pointless party objectives and more survival hardcore elements, along the same lines as Disease.

At least, if it still wants to be Don't Starve.

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18 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

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Well to survive all you need is a base with a bunnyman farm and a tooth trap area so id say the whole point of the game for experienced players is a time rush to get the necessities and from that point its a boss rush. But theres a lot more side content which isnt necessary for survival but it gives you achievements to complete. The ruins for example, theres no need for you to go down there, its dangerous, takes preparation for most characters, but the loot is great and it helps in doing other things in the game faster/easier.

Also the return of them will have multiple content updates, judging the current content and saying theres no need to go there, its basically only looking at the ruins cities which only have splumonkeys and thulecite walls.

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26 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

along the same lines as Disease.

Not disease... as it is I find disease to be a really boring mechanic, it only feels like an annoying obligation and also i've always had this sensation that it's lacking something, like they might've tought of implementing something more about it but decided not to and mostly forgot about the disease mechanic.
I'd be fine with a mechanic like disease if it was connected to something more in the don't starve world, something like a mob, or even better, a boss!
Imagine having this urge to kill a boss because otherwise all your plantation and some plants of the constant will be gone? Like the boss is spreading the disease or holds the ingredientes to make a cure for it. Wouldn't it be awesome?! 

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2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

What part of the game sailing really is? Because to just get started you need quite a lot of resuorces if you want everything (boat, oar, sail, anchoar, stearig wheel and boat patches) and on top of that you need to plan your exhibitions so that hounds don't kill you. This makes sailing definitelly not something that you do early game.

Just to add to this, 

Sailing during Spring and Summer are also not recommended, unless you have a Lightning Rod and an Ice Flingomatic on-board (which you won't, because space is so limited on boats).

So sailing is only really viable during Autumn and Winter. 

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

So if it's a mid game content then there're also these questions: Is cookie cuter hat better than football helmet?

I believe it's on par with the Battle Helm, but has worse absorption damage. 

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Is Salt Box better than Ice Box?

Yes. I believe food last 400 times longer.

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Are Glass tools better than Golden Axe and Dark Sword? 

They are better than Dark Swords as they have no sanity penalty. 

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21 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Sailing during Spring and Summer are also not recommended, unless you have a Lightning Rod and an Ice Flingomatic on-board (which you won't, because space is so limited on boats).

maybe we can connect boats :D 

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If I'm not mistaken the Cookie Cutter Cap has 70% defense, 525 durability, and 35% waterproofness.
So, worse defense, better durability, and better waterproofing than a Football Helm.

So... I could see if being somewhat useful for ocean combat, and saving space on boat expeditions... but again—it seems a lot of the ocean content feeds into the ocean content. And even then, a Football Helm is still probably a better bet.

Not everything is like this of course. The Salt Box is an amazing addition that outclasses the Ice Box when it comes to ingredients. Salt is fairly useful for preserving things until Bundling Wrap is available. Stone Fruit makes for great filler early on for a similar reason—it won't spoil until opened.

But yeah, I'm worried the new ocean content is going to feed into itself—sail the ocean so you can... sail the ocean better.

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3 hours ago, Zeklo said:

But yeah, I'm worried the new ocean content is going to feed into itself—sail the ocean so you can... sail the ocean better.

Maybe they are preparing the field for a very rewarding sea-basing and seafighting experience, which isn't implemented as of today.

I suppose that all we know so far of dont starve together will stay in the main land, and a more adventurous life, full of dangers and treasures will come for those willing to prepare the expedition and sail.

Perhaps even the hardcore mode many people are asking for, will be found at new islands or at the sea itself, so both new players and veterans can coexist on the same server and be taking different risks (sort of how the ruins initially worked)

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On 9/14/2019 at 5:02 PM, Szczuku said:

So if it's a mid game content 

when did the definition of midgame become Late Autumn, Winter or Spring of the first year? A decent  boat really doesn't require that many resources; lotta boards which are easily gathered by a day of lumberjacking, Some grass and rock, which are basic resources you should be hoarding anyway, a fire pit and some web. These resources are really easy to gather if you just cooperate. Then flavor your boat with Ice Box, chests, crock pot, Ocuvigil, Moon Dial, Alchemy Engine, lightning rod...

Don't tell me a lightning rod is expensive by day 35, it requires three rocks and a gold, basically free. and placement? Here's a tip, actual boat stuff can be planted much more crammed than other structures so you should first build the structures you want on your boat and then move to Masts, Steering Wheel, Anchor etc.

Boats are pretty useful discovering the map in the early game and going from one place to another. It's also pretty neat to sail on Winter or Summer as instead of staying at camp during nights doing very little, boats allow you to move your fire pit as a heat station so you can go adventuring really far without worrying about the heat effects.

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On 9/14/2019 at 12:26 PM, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Sailing during Spring and Summer are also not recommended, unless you have a Lightning Rod and an Ice Flingomatic on-board (which you won't, because space is so limited on boats).

Space on boats is limited but not THAT limited. I don't see how you wouldn't be able to fit a lightning rod without being horribly inefficient with placement. As for a flingomatic... You can extinguish smoldering structures and items with your hands. And even if you fail to do so, all you need to fix it is a luxury fan to put it all out and some logs to repair the damage done to the boat. And if you don't want to do that... you CAN fit a flingomatic on a boat... check out this post. Every structure you'll need for year-round survival, all on a single boat. It's even got two masts!

On 9/14/2019 at 12:26 PM, TheKingofSquirrels said:
On 9/14/2019 at 10:02 AM, Szczuku said:

Is Salt Box better than Ice Box?

Yes. I believe food last 400 times longer.

4 times, not 400. It can also only hold items that can be cooked at a fire but not planted; that means that you can't put cooked meat, jerky, any crockpot dish and a bunch of other items in it. 

 

Anyway, I don't think the content has to be required to be fun. I've been having a blast with the lunar islands and the brine shoals. Even if you don't need them to survive, they're a lot of fun to play around with.

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8 hours ago, Electroely said:

Space on boats is limited but not THAT limited. I don't see how you wouldn't be able to fit a lightning rod without being horribly inefficient with placement.

I like to have a boat that isn't cluttered as hell.

8 hours ago, Electroely said:

As for a flingomatic... You can extinguish smoldering structures and items with your hands.

About that...There was a bug last time I played where the mast was smouldering and not matter I did, there was no way of putting it out (every time I clicked, it would just activate the mast).

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35 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I like to have a boat that isn't cluttered as hell.

A lightning rod doesn't take up much space, and it's pretty important to have if you'd like to sail during spring safely. If you don't want to put one on your boat then I believe that it's your issue that you can't really sail during spring, not the fault of the boats.

 

40 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

About that...There was a bug last time I played where the mast was smouldering and not matter I did, there was no way of putting it out (every time I clicked, it would just activate the mast).

Looks like the bug was fixed. I wasn't able to replicate it, both with and without caves. You can extinguish smoldering masts just fine.

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On 9/14/2019 at 12:30 PM, Zeklo said:

But yeah, I'm worried the new ocean content is going to feed into itself—sail the ocean so you can... sail the ocean better.

It's...been kinda a pattern thus far. Not wanting to change up pre-established content. Understandable given reactions when it goes bad, but they've done some great things when braving those waters before. Combat in the Forge. Food prep in the Gorge. Obviously tuned high for the hard, brief challenge element, but the gameplay was well designed. I'd have enjoyed the Gorge if not for anxiety issues and the low player cap feeding into that.
Hamlet world gen/the dlc in general used old content in new ways. I thought it was really neat.

Character updates have me equal parts optimistic and terrified. On the one hand, they're willing to rework old content, so there's a bit of hope that at some point, maybe they'll touch stuff like world organization, adding a feeling of actual order/progression/effects of the players' actions to the game, ect.
On the other hand...
The pattern of committing to content with no pre-release community input on said content, then having to rush to patch it up to a meh state when there's inevitably backlash is troubling.
I swear they're going to give me some form of heart attack with the Wendy update.

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On 14/9/2019 at 5:07 PM, Ogrecakes said:

Not happy that the Malbatross is just another pointless optional boss, just like the Bee Queen, Toadstool, Shadows, Dragonfly, and Fuelweaver.

And again the only purpose of killing it is basically just vanity items that don't help you actually survive.

The Malbatross isn't a threat when sailing, it's a trophy.

 

Same goes for sailing and the moon island too, there's no SURVIVAL reason to actually do any of this new content so far.

The game needs WAY LESS vanity, pointless party objectives and more survival hardcore elements, along the same lines as Disease.

At least, if it still wants to be Don't Starve.

dragonfly and bee queen pointless?

i love to do so early dragonfly because of infinity fire pit and gems

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53 minutes ago, thetricker1 said:

dragonfly and bee queen pointless?

i love to do so early dragonfly because of infinity fire pit and gems

I'd like to see where you found the word "pointless" EDIT: OOPS, I'M IDIOT

 

They aren't a threat unless you decide to fight them, they have nothing to do with the core survival loop of Don't Starve, they are 'wacky activities for friends to play when they are bored!' rather than threats you have to deal with to survive.

 

And even then people just abuse glitches and bugs and Klei does NOTHING to fix them.

 

Really screams uncompromising survival wilderness when you get a giant bee stuck on a pile of fossils on the ground, or cage a massive dragon's children behind tiny stone walls doesn't it?

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11 minutes ago, thetricker1 said:

here

SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVER ME TIMBERS

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15 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

Really screams uncompromising survival wilderness when you get a giant bee stuck on a pile of fossils on the ground, or cage a massive dragon's children behind tiny stone walls doesn't it?

First of for DST the "uncompromising survival wilderness" part (which really is a subjective matter, can mean a myriad of various things to different people): was more or less officially dropped, that's the nature of multiplayer context if developer also takes into account a consistent crowd playing solo (in lack of friends or just being "socially awkward people") among others.

Second if you would have a 27k+ Dragonfly (complete with Lava Larvae) or a 22k+ Bee Queen (plus Grumbles) coming for one's camp 2nd year-and-onward, I guarantee you >95% of all player-base would be dead. And not just over-and-over again 'till, but every time (quitting game in record amounts I might add, compared to how things are now). Or just running and if able to escape, have their bases totally trashed to the point of being erased. And for bulk of those ~95% most likely the "surviving adventure" would end in certain death. Sure you can hold a brief for such conditions in a separate Hardmode and would be fair as I've seen a vocal minority on these forums actually advocating for an Endless Mob/Boss Rush Battle Arena in essence, at world scale.

And lastly, if walls for DF would be "fixed", next strat would be Flingo-icing the Larvae-and-enraged dragon; if that would be somewhat also denied because we all apparently need to follow more-or-less the exact same course of action and "git gud" at it (aka plain kite with Hambat/Dark Sword and some protective gear), next would be Ice Staffs; if that also would be eliminated, we will go full-Willow-team etc. And so on for each boss. Because let's be frank here, most people into DST, even versed ones - or should I say from personal experience, even more so for "pro players" that stuck with game for Nx k hours - aren't in it so much for the hardcore forced survival aspect or non-stop battle (the "non-stop fighting" people usually quit after mastering a game and move on to the next perceived challenge anyway). Exploring, building and socializing are a big part of this sandbox. Also the innate human tendency of finding the optimal route in all stuff over time - least investment for highest rewards.

 

PS: as for that Battle Arena concept, maybe some of you people would want to check these mods -  Endless Bosses, Starving Floor REVAMPED, The Arena, and/or Harder mobs & mechanics - and satisfy your thirst for harder settings, proverbial blood, and most likely lots and lots of deaths, heh.

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TBH I'd be fine with the Flingo method on Lavae and maybe even expanding it to just automatically target the Lavae, at the cost of maybe killing them faster so the Dfly is extra ANGERY. Using a machine that's meant to put out fires on creatures made of fire feels like a natural evolution of gameplay.

Problem I have with the wall and fossil exploits is that...they're exploits. They aren't game mechanics, they're bugs in AI pathing that lead to an endless loop.
Breaking the game can be fun, but when the bugs are left in the game long-term, especially in a game with active development, it cheapens the experience.

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16 minutes ago, maradyne said:

Problem I have with the wall and fossil exploits is that...they're exploits. They aren't game mechanics, they're bugs in AI pathing that lead to an endless loop.

Breaking the game can be fun, but when the bugs are left in the game long-term, especially in a game with active development, it cheapens the experience.

More or less true. I rationalize that with a parallel: flies hitting their heads ad infinitum on a glass window.. or ceiling for the matter. So Dragonfly's larvae.. sounds about right in doing it as well - 'thinking' a crammed opening in their way is a valid one, yet being too fat to actually go through. Also the LOL-factor: "oh the poor dumb animals, heh" *thumbs-up*

 

For me this kind of dark humor, tongue-in-cheek, and whatnot (maybe unintentional, but judging from quotations of characters, mob mentality and "morals" overall I for one find it fitting) is what makes DS/T memorable, not just a "straightforward" yet forgettable mechanic and game.

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