How to get the best out of hatches?

[AliVaja]

So, happier hatches produce more coal. That how it's supposed to work. Right?

But there doesn't seem to be difference in producing coal between happy hatches and between not so happy ones. Both type of hatches produce 70 kg of coal. In full sized ranch magic number is 8. When there is more than 8 hatches in the room, they get -5 to their happiness. And, yet, in both cases hatches produce same amount of coal. 

Does it work like intended and I don't get something? Or, is this a bug?

 

[badgamer123]

they burn less food if they not happy,it is a slow process tho.

[Lurve]

40 minutes ago, AliVaja said:

How to get the best out of hatches?

Make a stable, feed them sedimentary rock to get stone hatches.  Put the stone hatches in a new stable, feed them igneous rock.  Move extra eggs to a hole somewhere, let them hatch and eat leftover rock and eventually die and leave meat.  When you're feeling fancy you can automate all of this.

[Sasza22]

1 hour ago, AliVaja said:

And, yet, in both cases hatches produce same amount of coal. 

The amount they produce relies on their "meatabolism" stat. Wild hatches ahve metabolism at 25%. Tamed ahppy hatches have 100%. Tamed glum hatches have 20%. Even tho it says 70 kg it`s just 20% of it for overcrowded hatches.

Also keep in mind hatches can eat different amounts if they eat different things. Rocks give them very ow calories so they will eat a lot of them. But if they eat some leftover food they will get higher calories and output less coal (since it relies on the mas consumed).

[MorsDux]

I just make tall and thin stables next to each other, so the hatches are quickly groomed (short walk to the station) and the rancher has only a few steps to walk to the next stable. 2 ranchers can keep quite a good amount of hatches happy. I set up as many of these as needed to feed my dupes frost burgers. At the moment I run 6 stables and my coal reservers are increasing even though I only steam (a few thermal exchange setups) and coal power. 

[Lilalaunekuh]

My current setup to maximize the output of my hatches:

• Critter feeder is unavailable to duplicants, to they don´t refill everytime a hatch eats something.  (I want my ranchers just to groom/wrangle.)
• Meat is shipped as soon as it drops. (To prevent hatches from eating meat, which would lower the meat production and their coal production.)
• Eggshells and coal are shipped aswell, just to access items on the far right.
• The storag compactor for the hatch food is reachable even when the door is closed. (This allows me to disable grooming without the food supply.)

PS: I don´t think light affects the grooming speed, so you could drop the light + motion sensor.

 

[AliVaja]

21 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

The amount they produce relies on their "meatabolism" stat. Wild hatches ahve metabolism at 25%. Tamed ahppy hatches have 100%. Tamed glum hatches have 20%. Even tho it says 70 kg it`s just 20% of it for overcrowded hatches.

So Wait. Even if it says that overcrowded hatch has pooped 70 kg, it's not actually 70kg of coal? Did I understand you correctly?

 

Also, thanks to those who posted ranch setups. Will try them out when I'm tired to do thing manually

[minespatch]

Even though I can get sage hatches with mealworm, putting hatch ranches next to a mealworm farm will get you both coal and food at the same time. You can move sage hatches into another stable if they do hatch sage eggs.

[PhailRaptor]

2 hours ago, AliVaja said:

Did I understand you correctly?

Hatches run on kCals, just like Dupes.  When they are Tamed, they need more kCals to stay alive.  Different food types provide different kCals per kg of material.  When feeding them rocks, it causes the Hatches to eat a lot more mass, since rocks have rather low kCal per kg.  How much Coal they make when they poop is based on how many kg they have consumed, not how many kCals.  They produce at a 2:1 ratio, so for rocks every 140 kg of rocks they eat they will produce 70 kg of Coal.

Domesticating them makes their metabolism higher, meaning they go through their stored kCals faster, and as such eat more often.  It does not change the size of their stomach, so they still produce the same amount of Coal each time they poop.  But they will be pooping significantly more often than if left Wild.

[AliVaja]

So. What's the point of happiness mods then? What's the point of their existence if it doesn't matter how much coal they produce? Just cram them in there and ignore all the happiness mods?

[sktzofreak101]

It is the same amount per consumption, but 5x longer between feedings. Also, happiness affects their egg laying rate so happy=more eggs. Unhappy/wild lay one egg/lifetime. Generally I run 1 less than the max critter per room with the drop off set to auto wrangle excess and an incubator set to indefinite. it keeps them at the high reproduction and consumption rates, and the excess eggs are removed via sweeper or dupe. If 8 is the max, for example, set to 7 even with the egg in the incubator they wont be "overcrowded" and thus happy with grooming.

[BaloneyOs]

Depends on what you're looking for. This is my no brain required setup that hasn't changed for hundreds of cycles (dropoff not needed obviously).

 

With some +7 ranchers it seems to stabilize at around 35-40 hatches which is roughly about 1000 kcal of meat and .4 kg of egg shell per cycle. With this small space you get high quality food costing 1/8 of your rancher's cycle (with about 1/8 efficiency loss), and you are spared any additional costs in space, wrangling, or mechatronics which you can add later anyway. 40 cramped hatches also produce 8 hatches worth of coal.

I think optimal size is actually a 3 W x 4 H room since bigger floor = more critter travel time.

[bzgzd]

2 hours ago, BaloneyOs said:

With this small space you get high quality food costing 1/8 of your rancher's cycle (with about 1/8 efficiency loss), and you are spared any additional costs in space, wrangling, or mechatronics which you can add later anyway. 40 cramped hatches also produce 8 hatches worth of coal.

I think optimal size is actually a 3 W x 4 H room since bigger floor = more critter travel time.

I also think that having 5 times more of them in minimal 12 tiles room is better then keeping them happy, but why are you Grooming them?

I still don't have much experiences with critters but if I understand it correctly there is no point to Groom them if you have many of them in Overcrowded room. (Hapines -1 or -6 is the same Glum)

Happy (room big, Groomed)
Reproduction: 17%
kCal: 700

Glum but not Confined (not Groomed or Overcrowded or both)
Reproduction: 2%
kCal: 140

Confined
Reproduction: 0%
kCal: 140

 

[mathmanican]

9 minutes ago, bzgzd said:

if I understand it correctly there is no point to Groom them if you have many of them in Overcrowded room.

Once they burrow they become happy? Then they reproduce much more quickly.  That's the reason the floor is not tile, I'm guessing. 

[bzgzd]

4 hours ago, AliVaja said:

So. What's the point of happiness mods then? What's the point of their existence if it doesn't matter how much coal they produce? Just cram them in there and ignore all the happiness mods?

Imho critter system is not very good

In most cases keeping them happy is just to multiply them until you get your desired number.

You want them for metabolism - make 5x more of them and you get same poop with no work.
You want them for meat - then 5x less food needed for them is even better (often even no food is needed until they make egg).

I think I will keep long run happy only 8 Dreckos as they are a bit special but most of my Dreckos will still be overcrowded in hydrogen.

 

19 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Once they burrow they become happy? Then they reproduce much more quickly.  That's the reason the floor is not tile, I'm guessing. 

Ah yes, burrowed are no more in the room and so no Overcrowded but burrowed also don't burn calories so metabolism 0% during that time... maybe make sense if having them only for meat.

[bzgzd]

-------------

I think what could give more reasons to keep happy critters is if eggs would be part of best foods.

 

[BaloneyOs]

2 hours ago, bzgzd said:

snip

Think of it as about 1/8 uptime * 1/5 happiness for coal and 7/8 uptime for egg laying for 1/8 cycle of labor, so way better more feed to meat ratio. No other critter can achieve that as simply as this.

[SamuraiJones]

On 8/9/2019 at 11:54 AM, Sasza22 said:

The amount they produce relies on their "meatabolism" stat.

I love me some meatabolism!

[bzgzd]

11 hours ago, BaloneyOs said:

Think of it as about 1/8 uptime * 1/5 happiness for coal and 7/8 uptime for egg laying for 1/8 cycle of labor, so way better more feed to meat ratio. No other critter can achieve that as simply as this.

My pacus have infinitely good feed to food ratio... i mean zero feed and free food

But if you stop Grooming your hatches I believe you get that also. Free meat with zero work and zero resources. I will definitely test it in actual game because free stuff is free stuff and meat is needed for best food anyway.

Unless your dupes are addicted to omelette...

 

[Lafara]

On 8/10/2019 at 1:19 AM, Lilalaunekuh said:

PS: I don´t think light affects the grooming speed, so you could drop the light + motion sensor

that lamp light 500 lux is not bright enough to apply buff : Lit work space

[abud]

5 minutes ago, Lafara said:

that lamp light 500 lux is not bright enough to apply buff : Lit work space

It is enough, as discussed here. However, grooming didn't take advantage of it. I already test it in a similar way with outhouse test in that thread.

[bzgzd]

I did some testing with Hatches and game info about their base reproduction (2%) is a bit confusing.

Full hatch stomach is 7000 kCal.
Baby hatch is born with 6300 kCal energy (90% capacity).
Then for 5 cycles burns 70 kCal per cycle so it is adult at age 5 with 5950 kCal left.
After that if they are not Groomed and so Glum = Unhappy, they burn 140 kCal / cycle so they start starving after 42.5 cycles at age 47.5 but still live and reproduce 10 more cycles before dying at age 57.5

According to info in the game they should lay egg after 50 cycles (2% / cycle) so it might seem that they don't need any food at all if not confined or cramped because they can live 52.5 cycles as adults before dying.
So keeping them in "open" room or basically hole in the ground should be enough even without any food (something like Pacus) but...

Problem is that information that game displays is rounded and in reality their base reproduction is not 2% per cycle but 1.666% so they need to live 60 cycles as Glum adults and 52.5 is not enough.
(Also when they are happy they don't reproduce 17% but 16.666% per cycle.)

 

[Lafara]

Does tamed hatch give 0% reproduction in cramped space ?

and

Does Wild hatch still give 2% reproduction in cramped space ?

[QuQuasar]

I make no claims about this being the "best" solution, but it's effective enough and expandable for pufts and drecko's.

 The slaughterhouse section is actually unnecessary: if you want increased throughput, drop in some food for the cramped animals and treat the nursery as a feedlot ranch:

Additionally, if you want to increase plastic and reed fiber production, put a shearing station in the nursery next to the critter dropoff. Baby drecko's will have 100% scales when they grow to adulthood, so it's a good idea to shear them before you slaughter them.

[bzgzd]

21 minutes ago, Lafara said:

Does tamed hatch give 0% reproduction in cramped space ?

and

Does Wild hatch still give 2% reproduction in cramped space ?

I think both wild/tame when cramped have 0% reproduction.
Cramped means there is egg in the room and room is already full.
Just overcrowded (no eggs) has 1.666% reproduction.

But avoiding cramped can be done by "open" room or giving them natural tile to burrow. When underground they are like out of the room and so not cramped.