Ketmol Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 In short. Lack of swamp biome in some of the new starting maps means a risk of having no gold at all. There is chance of gold of course by volcanoes and alike and from the printer but it is not certain. Early mid game lack of gold for high temperature is easy by just making steel production a priority but what about late game space oxidizer. Grinding space tech to liquid oxygen is a huge step if not having the booster or solid oxidizer/petroleum on the way. Oxidizer can of course also be made by the blue puffs but on the biomes that lack swamp you again depend on the printer for that and even if you get a blue puft farm started the amounts are you get out of that are very small. Or is it something i have missed. Does any of the new machinery output gold as a bi-product? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkOps Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Doing a Badland playthrough and i have absolutely no gold spawn, i discovered all geyser and had no gold volcano so i guess i'll have to do liquid oxygen with hydrogen cooling. I think that they will add more option for those custom asteroids soon since they all still experimenting with them. Having no gold or tungsten will not having no option to get them otherwise leaves a stall experience, i think a easy start to resolve this issue is adding some package to the printer and later on add some planet no more than 40k away with those ressources. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilalaunekuh Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Not sure why, but in every thread about the lack of gold everyone asumes they need to tinker with liquid oxygen right after the steam rockets. Isn´t there anybody who likes dense pufts ? (95% conversion rate and no gold requirement to produce oxylite.) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
abud Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said: Isn´t there anybody who likes dense pufts I do. But OP already mentioned about it. Just didn't mention how much is considered small, very small, normal, or huge. How much oxylite per cycle production is considered a fair number? 57 minutes ago, Ketmol said: and even if you get a blue puft farm started the amounts are you get out of that are very small Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakery Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 I use DP for most of my bases, no gold maps is no problem of oxilyte, its limits us to deal with high temp materials, - we need steel to pump oil without gold.... (or use some precooling systems for oil biome) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FantasticMoose Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 I'm ranching dense pufts on my arboria runs. It takes a lot of room at 6 pufts per 96 space stable, but it's pretty easy to get running.https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1813745683 Morbs will make it real easy to keep the pufts fed, and has easy transition into dense puft feeding. There's a bit of micromanagement in it though until you set up some automation, which i haven't gotten around to yet, and the output is not great. The alternative however is not having oxylite. ^^ Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhailRaptor Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Reminder that if you do not have Swamp Biomes on your map, you can only get Pufts from the Printer Pod. You will also have to sufficiently supply them with Polluted Oxygen to sustain them long enough for their egg chances to shift -- twice. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseitsei Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 You dont actually need oxylite. You can go straight from steam rockets to using petroleum+LOX Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 If is for LOX you can convert it whit hydrogen and at least one thermoregulator. before rockets and CU Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkOps Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 The problem is not the oxylite but the manufacturing of super coolant, is there even a way to get liquid hydrogen without it ? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mullematsch Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 I don't mind the no gold for oxylite - I think its pretty cool. I do mind the no super coolant though... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
abud Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mullematsch said: I do mind the no super coolant though... And I do think it is a problem that needs dev attention. We need to make suggestions though, they will need it to help decide what to do. Making gold guaranteed planet spawn is still too much, IMO. Gold Amalgam from the print pod, it is meant as a random bonus. Probably worst easiest suggestion, I suggest changing super coolant recipe from gold to iron. There is @Lilalaunekuh discussion earlier about pyrite that much more interesting. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miravlix Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Lack of gold just means you need to build with cooling, sooner rather than..... Going from 75C to 125C is just delaying needing cooling, it doesn't "fix" that things get hot. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketmol Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 dealing with heat limit is not to bad, it just means you got to make steel sooner rather than later. It s like some people point out, where gold is crucial ingredient that is a problem and where the lack of it locks you out of some of the late game content or make it a super grind to get there/depending on luck or might even lock you out of it. Is it for example even possible to escape/ the new end goal of the game without liquid hydrogen? Very hard to make enough of that without super coolant. Maybe small amounts of gold could be a by-product of some manufacturing using rust? or gold a guaranteed spawn on some of the asteroids that you can reach with steamrockets? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radam Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 hours ago, tseitsei said: You dont actually need oxylite. You can go straight from steam rockets to using petroleum+LOX HOW? Do you get research points sending to planets multiple times? To get LOX you basically have to research hydrogen engines. Which is basically 1400 research points. While you get about 260 each asteroid. And without oxylite you are limited to the 10000km asteroids. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avc15 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 4 hours ago, Ketmol said: depend on the printer for that and even if you get a blue puft farm started the amounts are you get out of that are very small. I'm gonna focus on this one. If you're saying you can't produce industrial quantities of oxylite from a puft ranch, I need to introduce you to feedlot ranching which will more than triple the oxylite yield of your ranch. Now that a full skilled rancher can get 3x groomed duration, one fully skilled rancher can produce between 2t and 3t per cycle. Now the last time I tried this, boosters didn't actually consume oxylite - after filling them once, that was all you needed to do. So, i'm not quite sure everything that may have changed. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseitsei Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, Radam said: HOW? Do you get research points sending to planets multiple times? To get LOX you basically have to research hydrogen engines. Which is basically 1400 research points. While you get about 260 each asteroid. And without oxylite you are limited to the 10000km asteroids. You get 10 points per research module even if you have already visited that asteroid before Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radam Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, tseitsei said: You get 10 points per research module even if you have already visited that asteroid before So basically sending steam rockets with 9 research modules over and over again. AND one can use the 1kg packets of water that dont freeze in the pipes to make liquid hydrogen. For that first mission to any gold bearing asteroid. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketmol Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 I might also make a small addition to this subject that i did not think about when first writing the original post. It has to do with difficulty. I would actually be fine with crucial stuff missing on the starts labeled as harder. Or at least make it really hard to come by. However I think that the starting asteroids labeled as easier, or names suggesting it is easier should in my opinion contain at least all crucial stuff, gold being one of those things. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemie Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 My issue with this is that is not done on purpose by the devs...meaning they specifically decided to make gold not exist and then lock players out of the end game on certain maps. It comes up purely because of changes and scope creep. So I really hope they decide to fix it before launch. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkMaster13 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 10 hours ago, tseitsei said: You get 10 points per research module even if you have already visited that asteroid before Which is not a solution. Rocketry is already very tedious and boring. Refuelling steam rockets especially so. The expectation that players SHOULD be sending out rockets again and again to the same sites to slowly grind out research points is not a good answer to the lack of gold on Arboria and The Badlands. Nor is relying on care packages. They can be disabled, a core mechanic and difficulty choice. So unless Klei removes the option to disable care packages and officially says the player is expected to rely on them for critical resources, saying you can get pufts or gold from care packages is NOT a valid solution to this glaring balance issue. Flat out, there needs to either be an alternative source of gold on the map itself or else there needs to be some way to produce oxylite and/or super coolant that only consumes resources that all all asteroids contain. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wronny Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Ketmol said: However I think that the starting asteroids labeled as easier, or names suggesting it is easier should in my opinion contain at least all crucial stuff, gold being one of those things. If we ignore Oceania for a moment, then it is easier to understand why "The Badlands", Arboria and Verdante are listed as early as they are: Outside of needing to account for missing materials later [1] into the game, these do not come with an extra gimmick. The other four have some extra twist (cold or heat in some variation) to deal with from the moment the game starts, providing a rather frontloaded challenge. Once you get over the hump it is (mostly) smooth sailing there as well, but getting there might prove more difficult for some players. I'm not entirely sure what the deal with Oceania is supposed to be ... --- Not having access to a certain biome with all its materials is totally fine, if it doesn't cause any problems early on, which neither the lack of the Swamp biomes nor the lack of the Ice biomes does. Gold is only crucial in one area: Super Coolant production. I'm sure Klei will get around to resolving that issue in due time. --- 5 minutes ago, DarkMaster13 said: Which is not a solution. Rocketry is already very tedious and boring. Refuelling steam rockets especially so. Huge exaggeration, IMO. While in the steam rocket stage there's enough other things to do that the couple extra trips will hardly make a difference, unless you're dead set on doing things sequentially. Not to mention that it is always possible to send multiple rockets instead of just one to reduce the number of trips each rocket needs to do. Might as well start utilizing multiple silos in the steam stage. --- [1] later compared to the early challenges provided by aridio et. al. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
abud Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, chemie said: My issue with this is that is not done on purpose by the devs...meaning they specifically decided to make gold not exist Dev said it is intended though. Or I'm the one that misunderstands your sentence? Of course, there are some implications, that's why Ipsquiggle ask us to discuss it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfled Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 That comment specifically says "open a discussion thread about world balance" which is what this thread is.... I want to pitch my £0.02 at "ok with needing steel for hot stuff, not ok with permanently inaccessible super coolant" Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
abud Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 14 hours ago, abud said: We need to make suggestions though,.. [snip] Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109310-how-do-you-deal-with-lack-of-gold/#findComment-1231776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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