Making pyrite

[Lilalaunekuh]

Just read that pyrite was added to one of the new planets, so why can´t we make our own pyrite ?

 

It would help with 2 problems:

1. We would be less reliant on having a gold volcano.

2. We would finally have a use for sulphur.

 

PS: Keep in mind there are maps without gold amalgam.

[Junksteel]

I dind't even know what Pyrite was a thing few minutes. So yeah, why not making it in industrial scale right? 

[Dracian]

I'm all for new materials and ways to produce them.

As for the Gold Volcano, I've played plenty of maps without and that never was a big deal for me. However, I play more ONI for its survival side than its 'make huge industrial stuff' side, so I'm probably not the most qualified to answer

[Lilalaunekuh]

1 hour ago, Dracian said:

As for the Gold Volcano, I've played plenty of maps without and that never was a big deal for me.

For me the biggest impact of gold is the ability to make "perfect" metal sculptures.

I can build smaller rooms with still "max decor" or just spamm even more decor in the central areas of my base.

 

It´s less a problem of the properties gold provides and more a problem of the missing max value for decor.

Spoiler

Till there is a real max decor value, having the ablitiy to stack even more decor in a spot is worth so much.

I can just build sculptures in the bedrooms, washroom and great hall and my average decor will remove the need for additional decor outside my base.

 

[chromiumboy]

But why would you want to make pyrite? I dunno what properties it has in game, but IRL it's pretty useless

[Lilalaunekuh]

3 minutes ago, chromiumboy said:

But why would you want to make pyrite?

The (current) game treats pyrite like gold amalgam.

=> You can refine pyrite into gold.

Spoiler

I know it´s a bit pointless to come up with a correct recipe for making "real life" pyrite, when the next processing step is smelting it into "real" gold. ^^

 

[PhailRaptor]

2 hours ago, chromiumboy said:

But why would you want to make pyrite? I dunno what properties it has in game, but IRL it's pretty useless

The biggest advantage is from the recipe, combined with certain preset Asteroid types.  There are a number of the asteroids with no access to Gold Amalgam or Gold, since they have no Slime Biome.  Being able to refine Pyrite into Gold, after first manufacturing the Pyrite from Gold and Sulfur, gives you a production chain to produce Oxylite for Rockets to reach more distant destinations.

As @Lilalaunekuh proposes:

Iron + Sulfur = Pyrite

Pyrite -> (refinement) -> Gold

Gold -> Oxylite Refinery -> Oxylite

Oxylite -> Rocket Booster

Granted, for all that to work you'd need a Sour Gas condenser to actually get the Sulfur, but it's better than being incapable of reaching the farthest destinations due to lack of raw materials.

[KittenIsAGeek]

Why is "I don't care" a choice for the geyser, but not for making pyrite?  Honestly, I don't care.  It it becomes a thing, fine.  If not, fine.  I've played maps without gold and..  I didn't care.

2 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

Pyrite -> (refinement) -> Gold

That seems an odd path, as pyrite is iron sulfide and gold is.. well, gold.  Its its own element and isn't any part of the composition of pyrite.

[Lilalaunekuh]

18 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

2 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

Pyrite -> (refinement) -> Gold

That seems an odd path, as pyrite is iron sulfide and gold is.. well, gold.  Its its own element and isn't any part of the composition of pyrite.

But if you ever messed with the debug mode you may have seen the recipe to refine pyrite when opening the metal refinery menu.

 

4 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

I know it´s a bit pointless to come up with a correct recipe for making "real life" pyrite, when the next processing step is smelting it into "real" gold. ^^

 

 

PS: If the 2. question would have a don´t care option it would water down the results.

Spoiler

The first question is about a fact already in the game so you may have noticed it or not.

=> The 3. option does really add value to the poll, since it´s reflecting a certain kind of player.

 

The second  question is about adding somethng new to the game, so there are just 2 options:

1. You like the idea and want it implemented.

2. You don´t like it enough to let a developer "waste" it´s time on it.

 

=> If you don´t care you don´t want it.

 

 

[Derringer]

29 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

2 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

Pyrite -> (refinement) -> Gold

That seems an odd path, as pyrite is iron sulfide and gold is.. well, gold.  Its its own element and isn't any part of the composition of pyrite.

Pyrite did acquire the nickname "fool's gold", because it's yellowish and shiny. Just apply Klei logic to that.

In all honesty I'd have expected Lead in the oil biome to be in the form of Galena, which is also a shiny sulphide ore. Obviously there's plenty of hidden sulphur to go around down there, just crack some of that oil into gas...

[avc15]

but, why would you want gold specifically over the other refined metals? I may be missing something here.

They (at least used to) have all the same bonuses to overheat, most of them about the same thermal conductivity (except aluminum), and still can't be used to build most machinery. Gold also has the lowest melting point of them all.

What am I missing, there must be something significant. I remember there was a time that gold was the best one but didn't properties change?

[Nitroturtle]

 

27 minutes ago, avc15 said:

but, why would you want gold specifically over the other refined metals? I may be missing something here.

They (at least used to) have all the same bonuses to overheat, most of them about the same thermal conductivity (except aluminum), and still can't be used to build most machinery. Gold also has the lowest melting point of them all.

What am I missing, there must be something significant. I remember there was a time that gold was the best one but didn't properties change?

Supercoolant

https://oni-db.com/details/supercoolant

 

[Lilalaunekuh]

52 minutes ago, avc15 said:

What am I missing, there must be something significant. I remember there was a time that gold was the best one but didn't properties change?

There are 4 things sperating gold from the rest of the refined metals:

1. Gold is the only refined metal useable in the oxylite refinery.

Spoiler

Just out of curiosity, does someone fuel his rockets using exclusively dense pufts ?

Keep in mind there are maps without gold amalgam, so these maps force you to farm pufts for your early rocket missions.

2. The recipe to make supercoolant requires gold.

Spoiler

At this point in the game you could have brought gold amalgam back from a far away planet.

(Not sure if there is a planet containing gold amalgam in the current build.)

 

3. Gold provides the highest decor bonus.

Spoiler

As long as decor has no "real max" value, beeing able to stack even more decor in a small area sounds awesome.

If your able to stack enough decor in/around the bedroom of your duplicants you need no decor anywhere else and will still receive the 120 average decor moral boost.

4. Gold got the lowest specific heat capacity of all refined metals.

Spoiler

If you want to equalize the temperature in a room, you want tempshiftplates with a low specific heat capacity and a high conductivity.

[Aluminium could be superior now, but it´s more rare and would add ~6 times the heat capacity.]

 

[avc15]

ah yes, okay. I never seem to go looking for it specifically in any of my colonies, nor do I miss it when I have to use different metals.

[KittenIsAGeek]

12 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

PS: If the 2. question would have a don´t care option it would water down the results.

Not true.  Saying "I don't care if its added or not" is completely different from saying "I don't want it at all."  I didn't fill out the survey because I either had to say I definitely wanted it or I definitely did not.  So, sure.. it waters down the survey -- by allowing people who don't care either way to give a response.

11 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

4. Gold got the lowest specific heat capacity of all refined metals.

11 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

If you want to equalize the temperature in a room, you want tempshiftplates with a low specific heat capacity and a high conductivity.

[Aluminium could be superior now, but it´s more rare and would add ~6 times the heat capacity.]

 

If you want low specific heat and high conductivity tempshift plates.. use diamond.  Much better than gold.

[Lilalaunekuh]

1 hour ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

13 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

PS: If the 2. question would have a don´t care option it would water down the results.

Not true.  Saying "I don't care if its added or not" is completely different from saying "I don't want it at all."  I didn't fill out the survey because I either had to say I definitely wanted it or I definitely did not.  So, sure.. it waters down the survey -- by allowing people who don't care either way to give a response.

Ok, "I don´t care if its added or not" and "I don´t want it at all" are two differnet things. But so close to the release it´s more do we really want/need a feature ?

If you don´t care if it´s added you will most likely not want a developer "wasting" it´s time on this feature so close to the "scheduled" release.

=> You don´t want it.

 

1 hour ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

If you want low specific heat and high conductivity tempshift plates.. use diamond.  Much better than gold.

                            Gold         Diamond      Aluminium

SHC                    0,129          0,516              ~0,9

Conductivity          60               80                  220

=> If I want a really low specific heat capacity gold is still superior.

[To be honest: Since we can set our temperature sensor to an arbitrary value, I don´t know where I still value a low specific heat capacity high enough. It was a good way to build a temperature sensor based on a hydrosensor and a melting resource.]

[FantasticMoose]

I'll just pop my head in here to say we don't actually need gold for oxylite.
Apparantly people just can't be bothered to ranch pufts.
And yeah. I get it. The throughput is horrible, but instead of making all maps play the same by giving access to the same materials, why not ask for a buff to the pufts to allow another option to actually see play?

I'm totally against gold of any kind on maps that doesn't have it naturally, that would also make it a way bigger score to find in space instead of just "Eh, more gold."
I even think the geodes shouldn't be able to contain it, as the lack of gold is arguable the only real difference to plan for between Arboria and Terra, but that is more of a personal taste thing, and I can just roll the geodes away.

"But you can just not use the gold if you want the challenge."
Yeah, I could also not produce any Oxygen at all for the challenge, but intentionally playing suboptimally isn't my thing, so if I do have access to gold, It would be stupid not using it.
That argument is also completely ignoring the baseline wish of wanting different asteroids to play differently.
They hardly do as it is.
Even rime and Vulcanae (sp?) is pretty much only different until base insulation is done.

[Nitroturtle]

20 minutes ago, FantasticMoose said:

I'll just pop my head in here to say we don't actually need gold for oxylite.
Apparantly people just can't be bothered to ranch pufts.
And yeah. I get it. The throughput is horrible, but instead of making all maps play the same by giving access to the same materials, why not ask for a buff to the pufts to allow another option to actually see play?

I just want to point out that pufts and gold come from the same biome, so asteroids missing one will be missing both.  Yes, you can hope to get pufts from the printing pod, but the fact that this is required makes me think this wasn't a planned part of the difficulty.  This is also evidenced by the fact that it occurs on world 3 of 9.

[Lilalaunekuh]

28 minutes ago, FantasticMoose said:

I'm totally against gold of any kind on maps that doesn't have it naturally, that would also make it a way bigger score to find in space instead of just "Eh, more gold."
I even think the geodes shouldn't be able to contain it

 

I want the asteroids to feel different and I have no hate for dense pufts, it´s more the lack of pufts that nitroturtle described.

[Hope pufts still require nothing to be encountered in a care package, but at least in my eyes you should be able to play every asteroid even with turned off care packages. Even without ever touching oxylite your able to progress from steam rockets to liquid oxygen based rockets ...]

=> Playing without gold/pufts/oxylite is doable, but I would prefer knowing which "challenge"(/ resource restrictions) are associated with a certain asteroid before I start my colony.

Spoiler

If I want to want to go the route of missing resource, the resource should miss everywhere.

=> Not as part of POIs, not inside geodes, not available as care package and it shouldn´t even spawn on planets for this asteroid.

 

 

[FantasticMoose]

Eh, it might just be on my end, but i pretty much get offered pufts on every second or third printing pod option on Arboria.
I actually assumed this was intentional, but if it's blind luck, then yeah, that's a problem.

You can definetely get them though.

[DarkMaster13]

21 minutes ago, FantasticMoose said:

Eh, it might just be on my end, but i pretty much get offered pufts on every second or third printing pod option on Arboria.
I actually assumed this was intentional, but if it's blind luck, then yeah, that's a problem.

You can definetely get them though.

That still leaves the problem for when you have care packages turned off, a legitimate official game mode and one that's commonly used when players are looking for a serious challenge.  You can run steam engines back and forth to the nearest asteroids over and over again at 1/6th efficiency for research until you have enough to skip straight to liquid oxygen, but that's not good or fun design.  Especially when most people would say that rocketry is already far too painfully slow.

[FantasticMoose]

25 minutes ago, DarkMaster13 said:

That still leaves the problem for when you have care packages turned off, a legitimate official game mode and one that's commonly used when players are looking for a serious challenge.  You can run steam engines back and forth to the nearest asteroids over and over again at 1/6th efficiency for research until you have enough to skip straight to liquid oxygen, but that's not good or fun design.  Especially when most people would say that rocketry is already far too painfully slow.

I'm actually ok with that.
No care packages on arboria with no geodes that does not roll a gold volcano is a very specific setup.
Even if you choose no care packages on arboria, and actively roll away geodes you might still have gold.
And if you DO choose no care packages, you're probably an experienced enough player to know what it entails.

Arboria should probably specify that it does not have gold amalgam though, as well as hint at what this means, so it won't come as a complete shock for people.

And yeah people complain about rocketry being slow, but we'd have people complaining about that even if the furthest destinations took a single full cycle. I can already see it now. "Why do I have to be down one of my most skilled dupes for a full cycle. Why can't I just send a hatch or 2, I mean the russians sent a dog."