Food Rebalance Summary

[Promethien]

So what happened with the food rebalance in the latest patch note (7/16)?

1: The bean to wheat comparison is unchanged. Both plants output at the same rates for the same cost as before the patch. So beans still cost twice as much water for the same amount of kcal. 

2: While new foods were added old ones maintained their kcal numbers. So your can still feed your dupes on the same set up in your current save. Unless you were relying on Pacus. They got a big change.

3: Quality numbers were changed. BBQ is now quality 3 for instance. Everything quality 4 or higher requires the oven. Below that the grill or musher are used. There is also a new burger recipe that is quality 6, uses BBQ, Frost Bun and Lettuce. Has 6000 kcal. 

4: Pacu meat type has been changed again. You now can grill pacu meat directly. One pacu gives enough meat on death for one 1600 kcal grilled pacu. You can also combine the grilled pacu meat and BBQ into a quality 4 surf and turf meal in the oven. It gains 400 kcal in the combination. 

Overall I like the changes but the bean balance is still so horribly bad that nobody who knows the numbers will be willing to rely on them at all. 

[Loscil2]

Awesome, does wettuce still uses stone chlorine ? Thats very terrible

[goboking]

31 minutes ago, Promethien said:

Everything quality 4 or higher requires the oven. Below that the grill or musher are used.

To add to this, everything made in the oven, with the exception of Pepper Bread, requires an electric grill or microbe musher.  For example, Stuffed Berries now require Gristle Berries and Mushroom Wraps require Fried Mushrooms.

PS - Frost Burgers and Surf n' Turf are 6kcal for 1kg of storage space, making them by far the most efficient foods as far as fridge space goes.

[Red Shark]

49 minutes ago, Loscil2 said:

Awesome, does wettuce still uses stone chlorine ? Thats very terrible

Sure does -- .5kg / cycle

[goboking]

Here is what the new food looks like, for those of you wondering (I'm the only one who wonders about these sorts of things, aren't I?)

[nakomaru]

Really cool changes. I like that there's a lot of options so there's a point to having multiple sources of food and cooking stations. Much nicer than One Thing.

[iseekamy]

am I playing DS?

[CannedSmeef]

11 hours ago, Promethien said:

So what happened with the food rebalance in the latest patch note (7/16)?

1: The bean to wheat comparison is unchanged. Both plants output at the same rates for the same cost as before the patch. So beans still cost twice as much water for the same amount of kcal.

You are mistaken, my good sir!  The tofu recipe now produces 3,600 kcal for the same about of bean.

[Saturnus]

And yet, there's still no kitchen room.

[Lurve]

3 hours ago, iseekamy said:

am I playing DS?

They aren't all useless except for meatballs, so no.

 

I like that they're all "thing shoved into the other thing" with no regard for actual cuisine.  It's like the dupes were programmed to think meat in a bun would be tasty, but not to think to take the stick out of the kabob.

[Promethien]

1 hour ago, CannedSmeef said:

You are mistaken, my good sir!  The tofu recipe now produces 3,600 kcal for the same about of bean.

And my calculation is based on 8000 kcal from making two spicy tofu from a harvest. Still double water cost. The tofu buff simply improved the pre-oven numbers. Still double water cost compared to wheat.

[Loscil2]

12 hours ago, Red Shark said:

Sure does -- .5kg / cycle

Still terrible.

[CannedSmeef]

15 minutes ago, Promethien said:

And my calculation is based on 8000 kcal from making two spicy tofu from a harvest. Still double water cost. The tofu buff simply improved the pre-oven numbers. Still double water cost compared to wheat.

Hmm, well personally I think to remedy this they should make the beans germinate in about 13 cycles.  They should consume more liquid overall because polluted water is less valued and easier to work with at lower temperatures (also slush geyser), but double cost is way too much still.

[Lilalaunekuh]

29 minutes ago, CannedSmeef said:

polluted water is less valued

Polluted water got a much higher value for me and I think many other player than normal water.

Early game: The best source of oxygen if you have no bottle emptier set to accept polluted water.

Mid    game: This is the time I want clay/ceramic for my base, so producing polluted oxygen is my main goal.

Late   game: I want to sieve all my polluted water (and compost the polluted dirt), to have a sustainable dirt production.

 

=> In every stage of the game the most valueable resource for my duplicants is polluted water.

 

So even if nosh beans would consume the same amount of liquid like sleet wheat, I would never domesticate them.

[Saturnus]

The only plant you should even consider domesticating with polluted water is pincha peppers which can take up to 35kg/cycle 85C polluted water and instantly delete it along with the heat. That's a massive amount of cooling potential.

[CannedSmeef]

1 hour ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Polluted water got a much higher value for me and I think many other player than normal water.

Early game: The best source of oxygen if you have no bottle emptier set to accept polluted water.

Mid    game: This is the time I want clay/ceramic for my base, so producing polluted oxygen is my main goal.

Late   game: I want to sieve all my polluted water (and compost the polluted dirt), to have a sustainable dirt production.

 

=> In every stage of the game the most valueable resource for my duplicants is polluted water.

 

So even if nosh beans would consume the same amount of liquid like sleet wheat, I would never domesticate them.

I mean, that's a pretty niche play style.  I highly value clean water over polluted water because it's used in so many things, such as research or irrigating crops.  Polluted water not only has its own geyser that outputs temperature perfect for nosh beans but it's also far more common of a resource than clean water in most worlds.  Slime biomes have tons of polluted water, and many machines spit it out as a byproduct.  Clean water on the other hand has no geysers that output at low temperatures, so you need a good cooling system for steam geysers.  Refining it from polluted water takes energy/produces heat, and is more finicky to irrigate than polluted water (PH2O doesn't freeze as easily).  I'd say the price is pretty fair to pay if they were on par with liquid consumption with sleet wheat.

[chemie]

bbq...spending peppers for quality 3 food seems bad unless all the other 3 options have changed too?  

[Lilalaunekuh]

9 minutes ago, CannedSmeef said:

Polluted water ... is also far more common of a resource than clean water in most worlds.  Slime biomes have tons of polluted water, and many machines spit it out as a byproduct. 

 

If you compare free resources polluted water is mostly more abundant, but if you compare continuous outputs you will notice it´s the other way around. It´s an easy task to make more water if you got polluted water, but to other way around is way more tricky.

If your like me and play some colonies to cycle >1000 you will not be reling on the puddels of (polluted) water you have found and instead mostly rely on vents/geysers.

 

In the late game sieving/cleaing it is the main purpose of my polluted water.

[Just to produce dirt^^ ]

[Sasza22]

7 minutes ago, chemie said:

bbq...spending peppers for quality 3 food seems bad unless all the other 3 options have changed too?  

Higher tier recipies use BBQ as an ingredient so it might be fine.

[chemie]

2 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Higher tier recipies use BBQ as an ingredient so it might be fine.

My 50 morale dups, with tier 4 or 5 food do not need tier 6 food. 

[Gurgel]

I am undecided about this. Will wait how the changes affect my play-style, but I think there are no major issues. Especially with the massively buffed NatGas vents, the gas-range should now work nicely. I do think that bleach-stone production should have an industrial option as well, but if not, I will just never use lettuce.

[Lurve]

42 minutes ago, CannedSmeef said:

Polluted water not only has its own geyser that outputs temperature perfect for nosh beans

Ohhhhh...

Is that its niche, then?  Crappy wheat to suck up extra cold slush until your base develops enough to need the whole output?

Sort of the veggie equivalent of a gulp fish ice farm.

[Nitroturtle]

2 hours ago, Gurgel said:

Especially with the massively buffed NatGas vents

While the average range has been tightened, I didn't see any buff to NatGas vents.

[RageLeague]

17 hours ago, goboking said:

Here is what the new food looks like, for those of you wondering (I'm the only one who wonders about these sorts of things, aren't I?)

Why do you need an expensive oven to make frost burgers.

It's literally frost bun, bbq, lettuce put together.

[DarkMaster13]

5 hours ago, Saturnus said:

The only plant you should even consider domesticating with polluted water is pincha peppers which can take up to 35kg/cycle 85C polluted water and instantly delete it along with the heat. That's a massive amount of cooling potential.

I use thimble reeds to delete my toilet water so I don't have to worry about food poisoning.  I need the fiber anyway on my current map because there are almost no wild thimbles.  Don't want to trouble myself with pip planting for them either, at the moment.