Wes is in desperate need of a rework

[kilobit]

This is not a meme, or a "Nerf Wes". This is a "Buff Wes", because as everyone may know, when Wes was first implemented into Don't Starve, he was intended to be a challenge character. This may not seem like an issue at all, but then Don't Starve Together released, and that added multiplayer into the equation.

Since anyone can join any person's world and play as whoever they want (unless there's a use of mods, but it doesn't show up that frequently.), anyone can just join as Wes, either knowing about his downsides or just simply picking him because they're new and he looks appealing.

And now Wes' downsides, they affect every other player in the server. Wes consumes more food than everyone. Wes deals less damage than everyone. Wes has low max HP compared to most of the cast. His only upside is that his balloons can be used to quickly drain sanity (which is good or bad, depending on the circumstances or the player, but it's not exactly the greatest place to be with 25% less damage being dealt), and bait and damage mobs. Neither of these are very substantial at all, and bring pretty much nothing to the table. Granted, with enough skill, the player could be less of a burden, but then.. why not just play as someone else?

Seriously. How many people have you seen in your experience with the game play as Wes for any purpose besides a joke. Out of all of the characters within the game, Wes is one who goes unused.

I think James Bucket's video explains what I said above pretty well. And in a more entertaining way:

                                                                        Now, this isn't any hate on Wes. I quite like Wes' design, and his skins.  Hell, I even went and nabbed all of them. I think it's a shame that using him would make everyone upset, and potentially lead to me being banned from a server.

With the announcement that every single character in DST (and even Shipwrecked, I guess. Klei's insane. In a good way.) is being reworked to balance their skills to make them more interesting, unique, fun to play, and more powerful. Or potentially less powerful, we're only 2 reworks in.

This means that EVERYONE will be reworked. Including characters who nobody even thought about Klei reworking, Wilson, and Wes.

This means that this is Wes' chance to maybe become a less unviable, or even a viable character.

What do you guys think? Do you think that Wes should keep his status as challenge character, or do you think that should be abandoned in favor of a more powerful, unique and co-op friendly character?

I never see anybody talk about Wes when it comes to who they think should be reworked soon, so I decided to be the first (to my knowledge).

[Terra_Zina]

Wes should stay a challenge character, but he needs to be more fun. Wes is incredibly boring in comparison to singleplayer Wormwood.

I get that Wes is supposed to be 'The Wimp' of the survivor group, but I feel like he should be able to do more with balloons.

[kilobit]

Just now, Terra_Zina said:

Wes should stay a challenge character, but he needs to be more fun. Wes is incredibly boring in comparison to singleplayer Wormwood.

I get that Wes is supposed to be 'The Wimp' of the survivor group, but I feel like he should be able to do more with baloons.

I personally just feel like he shouldn't be able to easily tank down a group just because he takes up too much and is unable to give back with any sort of unique traits.

Seriously, Wes is one of the only characters who most server hosts and groups would either ban, or just push away. He's the one character who gets like, zero use. Every other character you'll see around semi-commonly, but not Wes.

[Brago-sama]

Everyone knows Wes's best power is that he has the best skins/s

But yeah, somewhat agree. If they ever do get around to reworking Wes, they could just take a page out of wormwoods character in that his powers primarily help others around him, but do little/nothing for him thus letting him retain his hard mode status, at least somewhat.

Here's a few non serious ideas that center in on the theme I'm getting at

•let him have a passive sanity aura for other players near him/whenever he mimes

•balloons can he held by anyone and they grant a small sanity gain when held, except for Wes. They can also be let go and have higher priority over other players when it comes to enemy targeting. Does not work for Wes himself.

•Wes himself has higher priority when it comes to enemies targeting players. Maybe even a larger radius in which mobs will notice him as well.

• letting him use honey poultice/healing salves/spider glands on other players results in a 2x faster healing animation and maybe foods fed to you by wes result in the fast eat animation

Idk, stuff like that. I'd be ok with reworking Wes with themes centered on this idea. That's just me tho. 

 

[MilesUpshore]

i got bored from playing as wes since the challenges are concentrated on his lower stats and his muteness (players will focus more on hound noises for their waves for example), i also didn't realise his balloon stack can be made into water balloons

i do like the suggestions of more crafting options for his balloons from other players, so if he gets a refresh in the future that will be interesting

[kilobit]

1 minute ago, Brago-sama said:

Everyone knows Wes's best power is that he has the best skins/s

But yeah, somewhat agree. If they ever do get around to reworking Wes, they could just take a page out of wormwoods character in that his powers primarily help others around him, but do little/nothing for him thus letting him retain his hard mode status, at least somewhat.

Here's a few non serious ideas that center in on the theme I'm getting at

•let him have a passive sanity aura for other players near him/whenever he mimes

•balloons can he held by anyone and they grant a small sanity gain when held, except for Wes. They can also be let go and have higher priority over other players when it comes to enemy targeting. Does not work for Wes himself.

•Wes himself has higher priority when it comes to enemies targeting players. Maybe even a larger radius in which mobs will notice him.

• letting him use honey poultice/healing salves/spider glands on other players results in a 2x faster healing animation and maybe foods fed to you by wes result in the fast eat animation

Idk, stuff like that. I'd be ok with reworking Wes with themes centered on this idea. That's just me tho. 

 

I like you basing your ideas off of what was done in the Forge. Maybe he can have less heavy revival penalties?

[Brago-sama]

Just now, bitcrushed_rage said:

I like you basing your ideas off of what was done in the Forge. Maybe he can have less heavy revival penalties?

They had ideas like mine in the forge? I never played it, no forge for console peasants ;_;

[kilobit]

Just now, Brago-sama said:

They had ideas like mine in the forge? I never played it, no forge for console peasants ;_;

In the Forge, Wes actually took higher priority for enemies to target, and Wes was able to be revived 50% faster than any other character. But hey, if you didn't play the Forge and guessed that, maybe you've predicted the future.

[4 Da LOLs]

what @Brago-sama said plus the possibility for a removal or lessining of his hunger drain thats what he gets banned most for in my experience and replace it with a added damage vulnerability

[SinancoTheBest]

Well I think his stats are fun and they need to stay challenging. I like Wes and I was never banned for playing him, this stigma is only prevalent in these forums and the videos of James Bucket.

But I do agree much can be done to make him more interesting and contribute more to the team beyond the playstyle of the players. I made this recommendation before and let me post it here again; make Balloonomacy interesting!

I think the Pile of Balloons should work like Codex Umbra, opening a balloon tab when you put it on the ground and get near it as Wes. He can make useful but very fragile objects from balloons in addition to his random party balloons.

>Party Balloon: What he does now, costing 5 sanity.

>Balloon Armchair with 1-3 uses, working as a lighter version of the tent, restoring stats slowly when sat on. Recipe may require some beefalo wool for comfort and petals for sanity, besides some direct sanity cost.

>Balloon Saddle: A Saddle that explodes the instance Beefalo shakes it off but allowing him very early access to beefalo riding. Could require a lot of Sanity and a Koelephant Trunk.

>Balloon Pillow: Functions similarly to fur roll, providing gradual sanity gain when napping.

>Balloon Hat: Tiny sanity restoration and one damage block, popping on first damage sustained and returning 5 damage nearby upon exploding like Bramble Armor.

>Balloon Sword: A weapon for early fights, small damage output but can stunlock.

>Balloon Cake: A tribute item, providing max/some friendship with Pigmen, Bunnymen and Catcoons when given to them, besides appeasing Antlion and amusing the Pig King.

>Balloon Animal: A decoy that attracts the attention of hostile mobs over players and exploding upon attack.

[CameoAppearance]

I think playing as Wes shouldn't get any easier, as being the challenge character is his entire mechanical purpose outside of the Forge and Gorge, and people who votekick Weses from public servers just for picking Wes need to grow up. However, I see how his higher hunger drain makes him as much of a resource burden as Wolfgang or a semi-bloomed Wormwood without being able to tank powerful enemies or grow vast amounts of crops like they do, so it would be nice if Wes got some new abilities that help him give back to his team while he himself still struggles to survive.

The balloon crafting tab is a fun idea, although I think the Balloon Animal is probably horning in on Willow's territory too much.

Newbies aren't more likely to pick Wes than any other character, although it's true that his weaknesses make newbie mistakes harder to recover from. If every character is played perfectly then he does still fall short, but in practice a seasoned Wes who makes an effort to compensate for things like the hunger drain (say, by going on extra foraging trips) isn't realistically more of a burden on the group than a Wilson/Wendy/Maxwell/etc who screws up from time to time.

[Troppok]

Wes already provides infinite boneshards.

[Funtime Dan]

I do kinda approve of the idea of reworking wes, but wilson? He is like the balanced character, because of that he cannot gain or lose anything in his "rework". Wes though can maybe get a buff in the hunger situation but still will drain fast(but not as fast as wolfgang or wormwood).

[Wesworld]

I always thought they could put more emphasis on his pantomiming 

Like say he could pantomime the invisible wall and it creates a wall that allies could pass through, but mobs get blocked by, probs with low durability, and can still be hammered.

Or he could use the bicycle pantomime to move slightly faster for quick exploration.

And his rope pulling one could pull items from a distance. Say someone died in a big wave of enemies, wes could retrieve the items for them.

All these things would cost sanity in some form, like the bike would probs be overtime while the walls would be an instant cost.

Just brainstorming.

[kilobit]

10 hours ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Well I think his stats are fun and they need to stay challenging. I like Wes and I was never banned for playing him, this stigma is only prevalent in these forums and the videos of James Bucket.

But I do agree much can be done to make him more interesting and contribute more to the team beyond the playstyle of the players. I made this recommendation before and let me post it here again; make Balloonomacy interesting!

I think the Pile of Balloons should work like Codex Umbra, opening a balloon tab when you put it on the ground and get near it as Wes. He can make useful but very fragile objects from balloons in addition to his random party balloons.

>Party Balloon: What he does now, costing 5 sanity.

>Balloon Armchair with 1-3 uses, working as a lighter version of the tent, restoring stats slowly when sat on. Recipe may require some beefalo wool for comfort and petals for sanity, besides some direct sanity cost.

>Balloon Saddle: A Saddle that explodes the instance Beefalo shakes it off but allowing him very early access to beefalo riding. Could require a lot of Sanity and a Koelephant Trunk.

>Balloon Pillow: Functions similarly to fur roll, providing gradual sanity gain when napping.

>Balloon Hat: Tiny sanity restoration and one damage block, popping on first damage sustained and returning 5 damage nearby upon exploding like Bramble Armor.

>Balloon Sword: A weapon for early fights, small damage output but can stunlock.

>Balloon Cake: A tribute item, providing max/some friendship with Pigmen, Bunnymen and Catcoons when given to them, besides appeasing Antlion and amusing the Pig King.

>Balloon Animal: A decoy that attracts the attention of hostile mobs over players and exploding upon attack.

I like a lot of these, maybe a few are somewhat unnecessary, but I do like this concept.

48 minutes ago, Wesworld said:

I always thought they could put more emphasis on his pantomiming 

Like say he could pantomime the invisible wall and it creates a wall that allies could pass through, but mobs get blocked by, probs with low durability, and can still be hammered.

Or he could use the bicycle pantomime to move slightly faster for quick exploration.

And his rope pulling one could pull items from a distance. Say someone died in a big wave of enemies, wes could retrieve the items for them.

All these things would cost sanity in some form, like the bike would probs be overtime while the walls would be an instant cost.

Just brainstorming.

I've had the same sort of thoughts of doing something with his pantomimes, but I could never think of anything.

I love these!

[minespatch]

10 hours ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Balloon Saddle: A Saddle that explodes the instance Beefalo shakes it off but allowing him very early access to beefalo riding. Could require a lot of Sanity and a Koelephant Trunk.

>Balloon Hat: Tiny sanity restoration and one damage block, popping on first damage sustained and returning 5 damage nearby upon exploding like Bramble Armor.

>Balloon Sword: A weapon for early fights, small damage output but can stunlock.

>Balloon Animal: A decoy that attracts the attention of hostile mobs over players and exploding upon attack.

Drew this already.

[kilobit]

3 hours ago, Funtime Dan said:

I do kinda approve of the idea of reworking wes, but wilson? He is like the balanced character, because of that he cannot gain or lose anything in his "rework". Wes though can maybe get a buff in the hunger situation but still will drain fast(but not as fast as wolfgang or wormwood).

I'm not sure what they could do with Wilson, honestly. Maybe make him just a little bit more of a team player? Maybe just stuff like from the Forge, more beneficial revives or something. Small-ish things. Since he contributes nothing unique to a team besides beard hair, and being good for winter survival. And looking really cool.

3 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Drew this already.

This is one of the best things ever

[SinancoTheBest]

7 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Drew this already.

OW MEIN GOTT! Is there a SUPERLIKE button around here? This is undoubtedly my favourite post in these forums <3 <3 <3 Can I print it as a poster? xD SOO PERFECT, flawless

[minespatch]

10 minutes ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Can I print it as a poster?

Sure, go right ahead.

My drawing was based on concepts several users were discussing. Like me as usual, took me a year or two to finish it.

[kilobit]

3 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Sure, go right ahead.

My drawing was based on concepts several users were discussing. Like me as usual, took me a year or two to finish it.

Balloon sword is something I've unironically wanted for years.

 

[Najaf]

13 hours ago, Terra_Zina said:

Wes should stay a challenge character, but he needs to be more fun. Wes is incredibly boring in comparison to singleplayer Wormwood.

I get that Wes is supposed to be 'The Wimp' of the survivor group, but I feel like he should be able to do more with balloons.

What does it mean to be "the wimp" ?

[minespatch]

4 minutes ago, Corazon said:

What does it mean to be "the wimp" ?

Wolfgang's level.

[Maxposting]

I have a interesting nerf/buff to Wes.

Him being to craft slightly smaller/bigger structures with completely 50/50 chance ; for example smaller engines would take 2x more time to prototype items, bigger tents would restore more values but none of these special effects would apply to Wes, for he is the big dummy

[YouKnowWho]

I don't think Wes' hunger is all that big of a problem. If you math it out, there's only a twenty point hunger differences per day compared to the other characters. That's less than two juicy berries. (12.5 points of hunger each.) Check the wiki out if you need more.

It really isn't all that bad, especially not something that should be considered banworthy. 

Don't get me wrong though, I think Wes could really do with some added perks. 

I'm especially a fan of the ideas that'd only affect group members. It'd encourage more experienced players to play him so they can get the benefit while knowing how to avoid problems with his downsides.

 

EDIT: I had an idea in another thread and I thought I should try putting it in here.

(ps go vote on the poll)

[maradyne]

Suggested quite a long while back that Wes could retain his personal difficulty while providing something to the team.
One of his original aspects is 'Has trouble staying alive'. Give that some more focus, in aggro management.

Give Balloons mob aggro priority higher than normal players.
Give Wes mob aggro priority higher than balloons.
Let both the balloons and Wes 'grab' aggro more commonly.

Then you basically have a Forge Runner. The current character reworks set the power mark really, really high, so maybe he could have more team utility, but the basic theme of 'good for team, bad for Wes' should be the core of the rework.