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Ideas for wigfrids rework?


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I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what they would do for wigfrids rework. I know it's a ways off but her kit already seems unique enough as it is. She already makes unique gear and she already has hp/sanity absorption. What could they do to change her but still make her feel like wigfrid?

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5 minutes ago, SneekyBerd said:

I think that ok thing would be making harder to craft battle helm and spear

That wouldnt really be a rework so much as just making her more difficult to use. She has to eat meat to survive which means she needs to kill things. I personally think it's enough that she already has to use 2 gold per craft. In a dst world with multiple people you run through gold pretty quick outfitting people for battle. 

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2 minutes ago, Kirby8971 said:

That wouldnt really be a rework so much as just making her more difficult to use. She has to eat meat to survive which means she needs to kill things. I personally think it's enough that she already has to use 2 gold per craft. In a dst world with multiple people you run through gold pretty quick outfitting people for battle. 

I mean this would be one of several things, and you can easly get lots of gold from graves and ruins

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yea wigfrid is perfect like she is now :)))) its very hard to tell what they could do.

shes actually the best supporter charachter in the game. not only cause of her helmets and spears. she can take much more damage so if you play her right you can always save your freidns from danger and help them not die. for example at a hound wave its best when you have a wigfrid next to you cause she will kill her dogs very fast and then she can help you kill yours. 

or if a giant spawns in base then a wigfrid can take his aggro and tank lots of hits without dieing and bringing the giant away from base.

when this happens other chars try to do that but they die and i do it and survive with 30 hp left.

ok back to the topic. i think she will get a buff for other players standing next to her in battle like she had in forge

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Wigfrid is fine designwise. She's just overshadowed by nearly everyone.

Wigfrid is designed to be a combat based support. She provides armor and defence, and is supposed to help players in battle. Alot of her quotes also suggest that she strives to make everyone tougher, so why not utilize this personality?

I would like for her to have a 'battlecry'. Basically, when she deals a certain amount of damage in a certain amount of time, she battlecries, causing her and nearby allies to do increased damage for a few seconds.

It's small, but it would help alot and fill her role as a fighter-support.

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34 minutes ago, Terra_Zina said:

She's just overshadowed by nearly everyone

what does that mean? that she cant do anything best?

if so omg youre so wrong

shes in evryting best. shes even a better wood farmer then maxwell xD if a treeguard spawns you can kill him easy and very fast with wigfrid and continue chopping. maxwell cant do that and his minions will be killed. if he fidghts the treeguard with a spear it takes long and if he does one little mistake hes nearly dead. if he survives this he needs to go back to base and heal. in this time wig chopped the whole forrest down xxD wigfrid never needs to go back to base for food, helaing or sanity. if you have 20 hunger, 0 sanity and 5 hp and youre far away from base and you have none food with you, you just need any mob which you can kill like spiders and then eat cooked monster meat and then just continue fighting. you will end up with full hunger, full hp, full sanity and your inventory full with loot. she can do that evrywhere in the world, ruins and caves. 

her strongnest and her abbility to gain sanity and hp in fight makes her the best gatherer in the game cause she never need to waste time going back to base for food, healing or sanity and you dont need sanity items like cactus which take a lot of time to be picked.

its just there are so much bad wigfrid players which dont gather and dont kill all the time with her what you need to do with her...

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If by “in balance” we mean “strong”, then yes, Wigfried is in balance. But playing for her is boring. There is no need to worry about treatment and items for sanity, it’s enough to go beat spiders. And only about 7 used types of dishes from Crock Pot.

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44 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

what does that mean? that she cant do anything best?

if so omg youre so wrong

shes in evryting best. shes even a better wood farmer then maxwell xD if a treeguard spawns you can kill him easy and very fast with wigfrid and continue chopping. maxwell cant do that and his minions will be killed. if he fidghts the treeguard with a spear it takes long and if he does one little mistake hes nearly dead. if he survives this he needs to go back to base and heal. in this time wig chopped the whole forrest down xxD wigfrid never needs to go back to base for food, helaing or sanity. if you have 20 hunger, 0 sanity and 5 hp and youre far away from base and you have none food with you, you just need any mob which you can kill like spiders and then eat cooked monster meat and then just continue fighting. you will end up with full hunger, full hp, full sanity and your inventory full with loot. she can do that evrywhere in the world, ruins and caves. 

her strongnest and her abbility to gain sanity and hp in fight makes her the best gatherer in the game cause she never need to waste time going back to base for food, healing or sanity and you dont need sanity items like cactus which take a lot of time to be picked.

its just there are so much bad wigfrid players which dont gather and dont kill all the time with her what you need to do with her...

first off, Tree gaurds are super easy. Even for maxwell. And then the sheer speed that Maxwell can cut trees down at far surpasses wigfrid

 

And second. She's basically a straight downgrade to Wolfgang

Wigfrid deals 1.25x damage, Wolfgang does 2x

Wigfrid has an effective HP of 250, Wolfgang has an effective HP of 300 when mighty

Wigfrid has an actual downside, albeit a fun one, Wolfgang barely has a downside at all

Wigfrid walks at normal speed, Wolfgang has a 25% speedboost while mighty, which makes kiting easier for him

 

When it comes to combat, the only thing Wigfrid has over Wolfgang is her battle helms, and even then those are just football helmets with more durability.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

first off, Tree gaurds are super easy. Even for maxwell. And then the sheer speed that Maxwell can cut trees down at far surpasses wigfrid

 

And second. She's basically a straight downgrade to Wolfgang

Wigfrid deals 1.25x damage, Wolfgang does 2x

Wigfrid has an effective HP of 250, Wolfgang has an effective HP of 300 when mighty

Wigfrid has an actual downside, albeit a fun one, Wolfgang barely has a downside at all

Wigfrid walks at normal speed, Wolfgang has a 25% speedboost while mighty, which makes kiting easier for him

 

When it comes to combat, the only thing Wigfrid has over Wolfgang is her battle helms, and even then those are just football helmets with more durability.

 

 

What about her lifesteal? :o

She’s not meant to be the best anyway she’s a Jack of all trades. 

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1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

first off, Tree gaurds are super easy. Even for maxwell. And then the sheer speed that Maxwell can cut trees down at far surpasses wigfrid

 

And second. She's basically a straight downgrade to Wolfgang

Wigfrid deals 1.25x damage, Wolfgang does 2x

Wigfrid has an effective HP of 250, Wolfgang has an effective HP of 300 when mighty

Wigfrid has an actual downside, albeit a fun one, Wolfgang barely has a downside at all

Wigfrid walks at normal speed, Wolfgang has a 25% speedboost while mighty, which makes kiting easier for him

 

When it comes to combat, the only thing Wigfrid has over Wolfgang is her battle helms, and even then those are just football helmets with more durability.

 

 

treeguards are super easy but they will kill your minions and you need to kill them. one hit of them and you need to go to heal as max. dont ignore my arguements. it takes 1 or more days to go back to base and make food and sleep in tent and come back to the forrest.

but it was more a joke that i said shes a better chopper then him. i just wanted to say that she never needs to goto base than to drop loot and that makes her very fast in gathering and doing evrything.

wolfgang cant heal in his mighty form that makes her having more health in boss fights or in other words she has more hp over the whole fight then wolfgang.

you can test a might full hp wolfgang and a wig and let them both fight a bearger for example without kiting and you will see wolfgang is much more faster dead then she.

wolfgansg speedboost is great but only if you do perfect kiting. if you dont then wig is better cause she can take the hits easy and regens the hp which wolf doesnt. wolfgang looses his hp in his mighty form

also wig has an own fighting strat which no one knows or uses. its not good to kite all attacks with her. you need to know what you tank and what you kite. i kill as wig faster klaus then any other player with wolfgang.

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3 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

treeguards are super easy but they will kill your minions and you need to kill them. one hit of them and you need to go to heal as max. dont ignore my arguements. it takes 1 or more days to go back to base and make food and sleep in tent and come back to the forrest.

5

ah, fair enough

3 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

but it was more a joke that i said shes a better chopper then him. i just wanted to say that she never needs to goto base than to drop loot and that makes her very fast in gathering and doing evrything.

4

I walked into that one, huh?

3 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

wolfgang cant heal in his mighty form that makes her having more health in boss fights or in other words she has more hp over the whole fight then wolfgang.

2

uhh, he can? his health scaling does make it more effective to heal in wimpy, but Mighty Wolfgang can definitly heal. If anything, he has an easier time healing sense his speedboost lets hiim get farther away.

3 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

you can test a might full hp wolfgang and a wig and let them both fight a bearger for example without kiting and you will see wolfgang is much more faster dead then she.

4

Good to note

3 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

wolfgansg speedboost is great but only if you do perfect kiting. if you dont then wig is better cause she can take the hits easy and regens the hp which wolf doesnt. wolfgang looses his hp in his mighty form

7

Well the speedboost makes it much easier to kite, and possibly even get in an extra hit. Due to that and his higher damage, he can kill things mcuh faster than Wigfrid and at much lower risk.

3 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

also wig has an own fighting strat which no one knows or uses. its not good to kite all attacks with her. you need to know what you tank and what you kite. i kill as wig faster klaus then any other player with wolfgang.

Interesting.

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first of all dont make fun of me. im also not doing it of you.

9 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

uhh, he can? his health scaling does make it more effective to heal in wimpy, but Mighty Wolfgang can definitly heal. If anything, he has an easier time healing sense his speedboost lets hiim get farther away.

doesnt his health goes constanly down when hes in mighty form and only gained hp from food? that makes healing items less effective on him

10 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Well the speedboost makes it much easier to kite, and possibly even get in an extra hit. Due to that and his higher damage, he can kill things mcuh faster than Wigfrid and at much lower risk.

thats true. i just wantzed to say if you do the fight with wig and you use a kiting/tanking strat then shes as good as wolfgang if he does a nearly not get hit fight vs klaus.

the point is im playing this game a lot. with friends and on public server and group server, evrywhere. im always wig and when we do boss fights the other players always die. no matter if they are wolfgang or wx or what ever other char. and im not talking about noob players. i never die and im very lazy at kiting. i know exactly when, which hits i can tank and when i have to kite. if i do this with wolfgang for example im immidiatly dead. fighting misery toadstool for example i only tank his mushroom bombs and sometimes his big stomps. this way i deal much more damage.

this point also makes wolfgangs extra hits invalid. ive tons more extra hits then wolfgang cause im tanking. in the time you are running away im doing damage. tanking an atatck is faster then kiting it most times.

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Wigfrid is more of a tanky support fighter, not the main damage dealer, its a good overall balanced character. The fact that she is not "the best damage dealer" doesn't make her bad. And I find her helmets very useful throughout most of the game.

What I'd like wigfrid to get is: 

- Battlecries, as @Terra_Zina said. Maybe the buff could share a small damage boost, and lifesteal with your friends for a hit or 2. It could also work on NPC befriended allies (bunnymen and pigmen)

- Upgrades to her gear: Besides the current gear (unchanged) as you progress in tech you can use those as raw materials for upgraded versions: EG:

- At alchemy station, you learn to make the "improved battle spear" for a normal battle spear and 1 gold, adding much more durability

- At shadow manipulator, you learn to craft "advanced spear" using the "improved battle spear" from the alchemy, and 2 nightmare fuel. It has slightly more damage, and the forge's wigfrid spear special attack, where you can attack a bunch of enemies in a straight line. Doing that costs durability, and anyone can use those spears.

- At pseudoscience stations you can take your improved battle spears and coat them in thulecite (and maybe an orange gem?) Giving it more damage, durability, and the forge's special attack of skyjumping and landing on distant enemies. Anyone can use those spears but only wigfrid can craft them at the station.

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2 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Wigfrid is more of a tanky support fighter, not the main damage dealer, its a good overall balanced character. The fact that she is not "the best damage dealer" doesn't make her bad. And I find her helmets very useful throughout most of the game.

What I'd like wigfrid to get is: 

- Battlecries, as @Terra_Zina said. Maybe the buff could share a small damage boost, and lifesteal with your friends for a hit or 2. It could also work on NPC befriended allies (bunnymen and pigmen)

- Upgrades to her gear: Besides the current gear (unchanged) as you progress in tech you can use those as raw materials for upgraded versions: EG:

- At alchemy station, you learn to make the "improved battle spear" for a normal battle spear and 1 gold, adding much more durability

- At shadow manipulator, you learn to craft "advanced spear" using the "improved battle spear" from the alchemy, and 2 nightmare fuel. It has slightly more damage, and the forge's wigfrid spear special attack, where you can attack a bunch of enemies in a straight line. Doing that costs durability, and anyone can use those spears.

- At pseudoscience stations you can take your improved battle spears and coat them in thulecite (and maybe an orange gem?) Giving it more damage, durability, and the forge's special attack of skyjumping and landing on distant enemies. Anyone can use those spears but only wigfrid can craft them at the station.

i disagree with evrxone can use the special attacks on her spears. wolfgang is to fat to do fast attacks in a straight line and hes to fat to jump so high. he only has the 25% speedboost cause hes so scared and runs for his life xxxD

wickerbottom is an old lady.

wendy is a child

...

maybe wx could be able for such athletic actions.

but woudnt that make all other weapons being used much lesser. or if the weapons are so op then players would try only to use them. i like all your ideas but i would like only she can use the spears.

also evrywhere so much wig hater. they profit so much from her helmets and dont respect her. why should wig give them her abbilities ;)

 

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36 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

i disagree with evrxone can use the special attacks on her spears.

but woudnt that make all other weapons being used much lesser. or if the weapons are so op then players would try only to use them. i like all your ideas but i would like only she can use the spears.

The fact that everyone can use the special actions is to make her stuff team friendly. 

Actually the weapons rework I suggested makes the weapons more fun than, say, dark swords, but they do not deal nearly as much damage. Battle spear already deals slightly more than a normal spear, so making it much more durable would probably compensate its poor damage, and the same goes from giving it special actions. Also I didnt mention that special ctions deal more damage, just AOE at the cost of durability.

It will make her weapons more fun and versatile, but not really OP. And the fact that everyone may want them and keep using them will keep wig relevant.

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Hi. I'd like to point out that not only am I specialized in the field of Wigfrid Quotology, but that I have... 852 hours in DST, 99% of which is spent playing exclusively as Wigfrid. Most likely even more, since Steam doesn't track offline hours. Point is, I am a Wigfrid main, I am knowledgeable on the subject.

Let's break Wigfrid down, piece by piece:

-Wigfrid can only eat meat (And jellybeans, and specifically non-fruit based candy/treats... for some reason.)
-Wigfrid takes 25% less damage, and deals 25% more damage.
-Wigfrid can craft relatively cheap gear at the start of the game, and spawns with said gear in her hands already.

In other places, I've talked extensively about changes that could help Wigfrid, and it looks like a few people here already mentioned some of my ideas. Great minds think alike, cheers! Although, mine's a bit more specific.

Let's pull in the wonderful man Wolfgang. A lot of people seem to try and give Wolfgang an analysis compared against Wigfrid, but yet they either lack in experience with one of them, or both of them. That other 1% of my playtime has been Wolfgang. And let me tell you- Wolfgang is disgustingly overpowered in terms of combat.

Which is Wigfrid's main issue- She is a warrior character based on combat, yet she plays second fiddle to it. For a player that wants to focus on playing at peak performance in their world, Wigfrid suffers the terrible fate that Winona was given, which is that you pick them, craft items, switch off of them because their perks by themselves don't warrant an interesting enough time to keep playing as them, when another character does have direct stats that makes their gameplay closer to the meta. That's not to say nobody is even allowed to have fun with these characters, as I've previously mentioned, I am a Wigfrid main, I honestly enjoy playing as her, but the problem is, is that if I ever switch to Wolfgang in the world, I find it hard to consciously want to switch back to Wigfrid.

Because Wolfgang, unlike Wigfrid,

-Can eat anything
-Deals 100% more damage, has no natural resistance to damage
-Moves 25% faster
-Has higher max health (300!)

So when you compare the two, in terms of combat, so long as you know the basics of kiting, Wolfgang is an obvious no brainer to pick over Wigfrid. You can even try making the argument "But Wolfgang needs to eat more" to which I offer back, "But Wolfgang can eat more", which nullifies any argument there. His higher max health and movement speed allow him to not only have the option to face tank, but also kite better than other characters if he chooses that option, all the while, dealing more damage than Wigfrid. And let's face it, you never go into a big battle without a pile of healing food like dragon pie or pirogi, so that mighty form is never going to wear off, so long as you prepared the bare minimum amount. And speaking of- Dragon pie makes one of the hugest differences between the two- Wigfrid can't eat it. She can eat pirogi, however, the means of which not just obtaining but all the way down to consuming come in, where pirogi needs a vegetable, an egg, a meat, and whatever to be made, whereas dragon pie needs 1 dragon fruit and 3 sticks you can pick up off the ground, which makes it come out more fresh than if you just had that meat sit there for a few days, because, well, sticks don't spoil. Not to mention, but dragon pie has the standard eating animation, which is nearly instant, whereas pirogi requires the meat animation, which isn't instant.

To summarize everything until this point:

Wigfrid is overshadowed and outclassed completely and entirely by Wolfgang. There is no argument to be made, especially now that the Celestial Portal exists.

Klei is making the character refreshes in order to breathe more life into characters, make them more unique, and actually stand on their own and be worth playing when compared to anything else. At the moment, Wigfrid is literally Worsegang.

Let's talk about what I think should be done with Wigfrid:

She doesn't need new craftables. This will keep her in the same purgatory that will keep her miles from the meta, because she will simply be "Picked and dropped" at the celestial portal for these craftables, then anyone playing as good as they can will immediately switch to a better character. Her craftables are fine, because even though the battle spear is outshined by the hambat mid game, that's the entire point of the weapon. It's just a better spear, not the end-all weapon. Her helmet however is incredibly good, even to late game, but the more experienced you get, the more you'll naturally prefer combat strength to defense, as you'll have kiting patterns down-pat anyway. The two are balanced.

As others have mentioned, Wigfrid is a team player, and her character seems to show it. Having the battle cry would be amazing, but hold your horses, you can't just say "Give everyone a stat boost" and call it a day. We need to get into specifics.

If you give Wigfrid's battle cry just a little nudge, then congratulations, she still does less damage than Wolfgang, and if you're playing alone or soloing enemies or a boss, the battle cry is essentially useless, again, compared to playing Wolfgang. In this instance, it does nothing but add another tag to her stats to make her look pretty, but effectively do nothing.

If you give it a huge push, Wigfrid can buff anybody effectively up to the same level she is, which just makes her uniqueness get lost in the monotony of the fight. Even though she's technically good, it overall makes her feel like she's less important in a team standpoint as everyone has increased damage ALONG WITH THEIR OWN BUFFS in the moment.

So, instead, make the battle cry effect her and her teammates differently. When Wigfrid is dealing consistent damage to enemies, she let's out a battle cry, which buffs her damage temporarily to 100% more (Wolfgang level) and either increase her defense (Not preferred) or her movement speed (But not as much as Wolfgang's, maybe 10%) for a brief time. Increase the attack damage of everyone around her to 25% more, and perhaps give them the same 25% resistance she has. Essentially, during combat, Wigfrid turns everyone around her into a Wigfrid while she turns into a Wolfgang. If Wigfrid gets hit, the battle cry's (Whatever) meter depletes, but can be regained, meaning that you are penalized for not exceeding perfectly in combat, which makes it all the more rewarding for the player to keep the battlecry going.

Now let's talk about repercussions of doing this:

Have we effectively done nothing but turn the tables, making Wolfgang be overshadowed by Wigfrid?
No, Wolfgang can still eat dragon pie and other non-meat dishes, and his mighty form can be activated whenever, meaning he can have a free speed boost outside of combat, which helps with a large variety of chores, not just combat. Wigfrid's buffs only activate not only while she's in combat, but when she's doing good in combat, as getting hit makes the battle cry stop temporarily until she can get it back up again. Pardon slurpers, no enemies take hunger, so Wolfgang's mighty form is only affected by natural depletion over time. Not to mention, Woflgang can start a fight in Mighty Form.

Doesn't this make Wolfgang and the other meta characters (WX-78, Wickerbottom) more disgustingly good?

Yes. Okay, okay, I know to some this sounds bad. Hearing words like "meta" or "buffs" scares people, right? Well, here's the thing. I'd like to just talk about the meta characters, and why they are meta. The characters that are currently in the meta, are, because not only do they exceed on their own merits, but the synergy between those core 3 is so outstanding, that together, they are almost a nearly unbreakable force of nature. With infinite dragon pies, a character immune to freezing and overheating, 2 of them have speed boosts, one literally emits light, and none of them struggle with gathering nightmare fuel, all which have debuffs that barely even matter, they are the meta, because together, they are unstoppable. By making it so Wigfrid now has the ability to directly benefit meta characters, now she fits in with the synergy, there is a actual, definite, and complete point to pick and play as her, and congratulations, we have officially added a new character to the meta level.

Balancing these characters is tricky. On one hand, you need to make them interesting enough and capable enough to hold their own and not be overshadowed, but you also need to make them have a good team synergy that makes them a worthwhile pick in any scenario. I believe with this change, as it takes both solo and together play into account, is possibly the best potential outcome for Wigfrid.

Also, let's all face it, after playing long enough times, Don't Starve feels boring. Balancing someone around the fact "They're easier for noobs to pick up than other person" eventually gets nullified when noobs get more experienced anyway, and effectively keeps the character dead in the water for more experienced play. A good game development likes to keep something intended to be relevant through the entirety of a player's time, should, ideally, balance not around noobs, but balance around longevity of a character.

 

To Summarize: 

  • Wigfrid is worse than Wolfgang in every aspect, unless you aren't a good enough player to actually pull off Wolfgang, and you rely on getting health back instead of eating/using healing items. In other words, you can't/don't kite and you never go into a fight well prepared, something only fixed with time, which will then circle back to Wolfgang being undeniably better than Wigfrid, making nearly any argument invalid with enough experience.
  • Wigfrid currently suffers from "Pick and Drop" playstyle, where you use the celestial portal to switch, craft a bucket of helmets, then switch back to whoever.
  • Giving Wigfrid more craftables extenuates the issue, and does not fix it, nor make her more interesting to play, arguably, it makes her a crafting slave, which makes her incredibly drab and boring.
  • When talking about balancing, we need to take both solo and together play into the equation, so it doesn't feel like they're completely useless when outside of their element, which is often.
  • Buffing Wigfrid with an intense battle cry shakes up the meta, and adds her among the top ranks.

 

Those are the pure, raw, thoughts of a Wigfrid main that has thought about this subject before Wigfrid V. Wolfgang threads were even made. I never really spoke up because this is a huge wall of text, and it never felt like the right place, and I didn't want to make a thread all about just this analysis.

Please, give me any and all feedback you can, I will do my best to respond to any questions or concerns brought up by what I said here, although, I believe I already answered the most common questions already within this giant wall. Give it a read, if you thought just scrolling down to the bottom for the summary was all you needed to do. I see you, reading cheater...

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Are we even sure wolfgang is intended to have that +25% speed? It's tied to his scale, and in DS bigger scale automatically accomodates move speed. For all we know it might be a side effect Klei didn't plan on.

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