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Abyssalite: fix it please


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To me, abyssalite reeks of a shortcut in game design that should be pulled before release; its only real function is to isolate biomes to make exploration slow and rewarding (no rapidly busting in only to find the ice is already melted). Obsidian serves the same purpose on slowing exploration, while keeping biomes separate just needs better map generation (less caustic biomes and volcanoes near ice).

The abyssalite/oxylite spirals were cool and all, but now we've got boulders and geodes; abysallite could vanish entirely tomorrow and I think if biome/volcano placement was even a tiny bit better and glaciers got fixed, nobody would miss it.

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I like abyssalite borders, as I like keeping most of the map as it is. Without abyssalite, over 1000 cycles the temp will equalize and it will kill the map. Maybe there should be a way to dispose of solids for those who want to get rid of it, but I would be seriously disappointed if it is removed and the map becomes not possible to keep in its original way (unless via undertaking a major conservation project involving insane amounts of insulation tiles).

Also, is there anything else capable of sustaining magma heat? It's not just volcanoes and magma channels on some map, the oil biome will probably be cooked to sour gas quite quickly with anything but abyssalite.

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To those that say "just use a mod" there's also the debug tools. Press backspace, press "clear floor" drag over the abyssalite you want to vanish and voila! It's good that you can easily mod this game, and it's even better that the cheat tools are so good and comprehensive, but neither is an excuse to not balance the regular vanilla experience.

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@miaulysome of us want to play the game as was intended to. Having at least 5000 tones of abyssalite on your asteroid is a logical nightmare. If you want more you can import whit rockets. As i said is easier to crush it and convert it to sand, sand can be easy melted, and the hot magma vented to space, or converted to polluted dirt, or coal if you feed the hatches whit sand.

As i said i was burning coal to get CO2 for making polluted water, for feeding my thimble reed farm, for having fiber for converting abyssalite into insulation just for crushing it and converting it to sand, because was no polluted water on map any more. 

I imported solid co2 from frozen planets, melted and do the same, i collect all the polluted water from my nat. gas generators, for reed fibers, and converted all the slime into algae for polluted water for the same reason, and wasn't enough for get rid of all the abyssalite. 

The only thing i didn't do, and i will do in my current game is capture and convert most of the exhaust co2 from the rockets engine for converting it to polluted water. 

I am not against abyssalite. I want more use of it or make it be crushable again. 

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Quote

Set an Automatic Dispenser and have it drop the Abyssalite somewhere unreachable. That way it stacks in one tile and you never see it again.

On loading the save game, it will be counted, sow longer loading times as it stack...even if isn't reachable and isn't show in the right list. 

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6 hours ago, miauly said:

Also, is there anything else capable of sustaining magma heat? It's not just volcanoes and magma channels on some map, the oil biome will probably be cooked to sour gas quite quickly with anything but abyssalite.

Diamonds? I'm pretty sure diamonds can't melt under normal conditions... :wilson_curious:

Spoiler

Unless you mean maintaining magma heat. In which case not diamonds, because they have high thermal conductivity.

 

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On 6/7/2019 at 8:57 AM, Sasza22 said:

I think there needs to be a mid tier crafting station, with some chemical stuff so you can change abyssalite into something useful. Or maybe crush it into some kind of mineral that can be used as insulation but not as good. Or maybe they will add concrete with different types, one using abyssalite for extra insulation.

I think abyssalite should cause mesothelioma in dupes.   And every day between 10AM-4PM, the dupes should be pestered by constant ads to join a class action lawsuit with the law firm of Hammer and Messerschmidt

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Abyssalite serves some important functions:

  1. It thermally isolates biomes.  It has a high heat tolerance and a very low thermal conductivity, and there is no other natural element in the game that can do this.
  2. It slows down early progression.  You have to get to Digging 3 2 before you can get through abyssalite.  Yes, there are other matierals that are just as hard, but they don't also thermally isolate the biomes.

Is there too much abyssalite on the map?  I don't know.  It personally hasn't been a problem for me, but at least the OP of this thread appears to think so.  I don't often dig out every section of the map, and I generally have a far greater amount of other materials like igneous rock and sandstone sitting around.  Throwing some abyssalite into the mix doesn't really add significantly to the excess materials.  

On the other hand.. it is very difficult to get rid of abyssalite.  Sandstone can be fed to hatches, that will poop out coal, which can be burned in a generator, giving off CO2 that can be vented into space.  Thus in a very long game, you can remove all of it from your map.  If you wanted to.

In my opinion, abyssalite is fine as it is.  I like how it isolates the biomes, and the resulting material from digging areas out isn't any worse to deal with than the other materials.  Then again, I'm not min/maxing my game.  

Edit: As @Junksteelpointed out, Abyssalite is now Digging 2. Still, it will take a while to get 2 skill points.

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44 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

It slows down early progression.  You have to get to Digging 3 before you can get through abyssalite.  Yes, there are other matierals that are just as hard, but they don't also thermally isolate the biomes.

They changed Abssalyte to Tier 2 of Mining. The final tier unlocks Diamond and Obsidian mining. I guess because of boulders?

I agree with the importance of Abyssalite as a natural generated barrier for heat exchange and it's very useful on that regard. Once you start shaping the base and invades other biomes, the element is unavoidable. Abyssalite can be reduced to the boring task of sweeping it and piling it up anywhere. All other uses (production of insulation or feeding abyss bugs) aren't very well balanced if we consider the enormous amount of material we can hoard. My current save is 100 cycles old, 4 dupes only, small base and 34 tons of Abyssalite already. My last save counted hundreds of tones. It's not gamebreaking at all, just a pure annoyance summed to the lack of uses you can give to the material. Being able to crush it into whatever material, being able to feed any critter that isn't the very last tier of a planned diet or, still, making it able to hold wild plants as a natural tile would be pretty much fine for me.... or ANY other use that isn't just plain negative decor in the surroundings as debris after mined.

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1 hour ago, old_fantom said:

I think abyssalite should cause mesothelioma in dupes.   And every day between 10AM-4PM, the dupes should be pestered by constant ads to join a class action lawsuit with the law firm of Hammer and Messerschmidt

But...it's not asbestos...also I'm pretty sure most companies can no longer be sued for asbestos-related mesothelioma as they've already reached a conclusion. In addition to that asbestos is made from several silicate materials, whilst Abyssalite is just one element, disregarding the fact that they're atomically different due to their suffixes.  But that's besides the point.

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Also, solution to having too much abyssalite lying around your base...maybe don't dig it up until you've managed to build a decent enough network to readily dispose of it. Do what I do when nearing a slimelung infested biome, go around, literally. :wilson_sneaky:

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I also dislike digging up abyssalite, because it accelerates the destruction of biomes. I avoid it even when I am digging out biomes to expand my base. It makes for interesting challenges when trying to fit builds in the space between abyssalite veins.

I can definitely sympathise with the people that dig everything out and just want to get rid of the thing, though. My play style is far from efficient in this regard.

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8 hours ago, tzionut said:

If you want more you can import whit rockets.

If there are no borders on the map which can properly block heat transfer, I can't really import anything with rockets that would help me to save biomes as they initially were. I can in principle wall them off with two layers of ingenious rock insulation and get the same result, but that would be ages and they probably will be killed by temperature faster.

Performance-wise, I do think that it's the most important to make game run on at least 20, better 30 FPS on current CPU, including laptop ones. A game that runs to its full potential only on server-level CPU or on previous-generation CPU is not something that ONI I believe needs to be to reach it's potential. But having software development experience I think that performance issues need to be first properly identified to be fixed, and then only when they are pin-pointed they could be solved appropriately. Making assumptions on what causes the performance drop and what does not usually does not work in my experience. Speaking of pin-pointing, has anyone tried to get a lagging 1000+ cycle save, delete only the dug up abyssalite in debug mode and check the difference?

Upd. I downloaded @JohnFrancis save file and did a test. I've deleted in debug everything that was on that tile below the dispensers, so around 8,5kt of everything. About 1kt of stuff was left in some other places. After that I've checked how long both saves take to load after a fresh game start. On my PC I see no difference, it's around 1 min 50 sec for either of them, and then about another minute after the game loads it takes to color itself and draw the resources menu. I see no difference in FPS either. By the way, loading music only plays for about a minute, so the last 50 seconds of looking at the stopwatch were pretty boring. Also the save does not seem to load from the game without a fresh application start at all for me, it just gets stuck on the loading screen.

Of course I do not know how much stuff was deleted by entombment, so a better test would be on a save with all the stuff still there.

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I don't think anyone is advocating changing how abyssalite is used to stop heat transfer between biomes, but there does end up being far more material than you could ever use for insulation.  It seems reasonable to request another purpose for a material that you'll have in such abundance (>2000t from my experience, even after making 100t of insulation).

 

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On 6/6/2019 at 10:54 AM, Junksteel said:

@tzionut is talking about it for ages.

Now that I'm mining a considerable part of the map

Just put everything into one tile situated off to the 'side' of your base.   use higher priority storages for stuff you care about.

end of problem.   pathing is a non-issue for stuff you're not trying to use after all.

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