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[Game Update] - 266340


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  • Developer
  • Pipe Empty jobs show the required role
  • Fix crash when trying to empty pipes
  • Sandbox "Instant Build Mode" defaults to checked
  • Fix incorrect temperature changes caused by partial boiling
  • Fix crash due to supercooling hydrogen
  • Show a notification if there is food available but dupes can't find any due to consumables permissions
  • Fix pop text when "cancelling" a non-wrangleable creature
  • Fix crash when computing cell visibility
  • Fix crash in sandbox brush tool
  • Fix crash that could occur when using debug keys
  • Shine Bugs now get groomed from the correct location
  • Pacu will properly overcrowd
  • Fix Drecko movement around corners
  • Fix crash when destroying POI ladders
  • Fix creatures not landing correctly after falling
  • Morbs once again trigger the trap
  • Updated Shearing Station animations
  • Updated Pacu animations
  • Fix Shine Bug egg UI art
  • Thermal conductivity is now a log-average instead of an average
  • Fix Shearing Station animation layering
  • Updated Pacu UI art
  • Critters now layer correctly when being ranched/sheared
  • Incubator shows egg icons for each variant now
  • Database entries for Critter Morphs should be linked correctly
  • Updated Slickster morph animations
  • Balance changes to Drecko diet
  • Drecko now requires Hydrogen atmosphere instead of chlorine
  • Glossy Drecko egg chances can now be improved by certain diets
  • Dreckos have an info item to show their shearable growth

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6 minutes ago, Loraty said:

Could someone explain "log-average", please?

Wikipedia says it's (x - y) / [ log(x) - log(y) ]. It's somewhere between the arithmetic mean (Currently used) and the geometric mean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_mean

Edit: Showing them off in a graphing tool: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/nkrmgiuppf

Edited by dezuman
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4 minutes ago, Loraty said:

Could someone explain "log-average", please?

The arithmetic average of 10 and 1000 is 505. If you instead use logarithms you get e^(ln 10 + ln 1000)/2 = 100. This is a way of fudging the numbers so that large values don’t skew the average as much. However it is still non physical, it is not how thermal conductivity works. They should fix the real problem instead of just playing things until they look right in some situations (and not work in others)

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Starting to think we're not getting a way to choose which eggs are used to make omelette. Guess it matches not getting to choose which metals are used in the power control station. A lot of these little things will need cleaned up soon.

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5 minutes ago, QuantumPion said:

The arithmetic average of 10 and 1000 is 505. If you instead use logarithms you get e^(ln 10 + ln 1000)/2 = 100. This is a way of fudging the numbers so that large values don’t skew the average as much. However it is still non physical, it is not how thermal conductivity works. They should fix the real problem instead of just playing things until they look right in some situations (and not work in others)

Well the log-average, which is the same thing as the geometric mean, is indeed not the physical solution. But the logarithmic mean is, see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_mean_temperature_difference

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1 minute ago, QuantumPion said:

However it is still non physical, it is not how thermal conductivity works. They should fix the real problem instead of just playing things until they look right in some situations (and not work in others)

Excessive realism wouldn't be an improvement, especially since the game, by design, won't ever simulate real life heat conduction (because of one-element-per-tile rule).

At the same time, realistic formulas would prohibit certain kinds of optimizations, which this game needs. Square root is an expensive calculation, expensive parts of log average can be precomputed.

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2 minutes ago, Stoof said:

Starting to think we're not getting a way to choose which eggs are used to make omelette. Guess it matches not getting to choose which metals are used in the power control station. A lot of these little things will need cleaned up soon.

For the power control station, put a compactor at the entrance set to the refined metal you want used, and see if that helps. Also, set the power station to priority 1, I don't know if other dupes deliver to it but it should stop anyone else from delivering across the map.

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23 minutes ago, larollz said:

Well the log-average, which is the same thing as the geometric mean

Not the same.
Edit: Log-average is not the same as logarithmic average.

Edited by Alpe12
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3 minutes ago, larollz said:

Well the log-average, which is the same thing as the geometric mean, is indeed not the physical solution. But the logarithmic mean is, see here lhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_mean_temperature_difference

They are not talking about using LMTD to calculate heat flows in heat exchangers (although they could). They are talking about using the average thermal conductivity of two materials in conductive contact to calculate conductive heat transfer. This is wrong. In conductive heat transfer, the heat resistance is the sum of the thermal conductivities of the bodies, not the average.

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12 minutes ago, Alpe12 said:

Not the same.

Yes they are, see here :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_mean#Log-average

Did you read my post ? Log-average of a and b is exp((log(a)+log(b))/2 and this is the same thing as the square root of ab.

 

8 minutes ago, QuantumPion said:

They are not talking about using LMTD to calculate heat flows in heat exchangers (although they could). They are talking about using the average thermal conductivity of two materials in conductive contact to calculate conductive heat transfer. This is wrong. In conductive heat transfer, the heat resistance is the sum of the thermal conductivities of the bodies, not the average.

You are right about that. Since thermal resistance roughly is length/thermal conductivity, and if we take the length to be half the length of the tile (after all this is not a transfer between two extremities of the tiles), then you get the harmonic mean of thermal conductivities.

The thing is, we are not strictly speaking in a case where thermal transfer are ruled by thermal resistance, so I don't know if LMTD is better than harmonic mean.

Edited by larollz
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The game does not model radiative or convective heat transfer. All heat transfer is conductive. They can add in heat transfer multipliers to approximate the effect of convective/radiative factors. But this has nothing to do with averaging thermal conductivities. They are just tweaking numbers until they get a result they want in certain situations, and then having to do a bunch of secondary hacks to prevent the side effects of the first hack from screwing things up elsewhere (e.g. biome melting)

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This update causes my game to constantly crash : (

log:

Exception in: (Pacu).FallStates.root.snaptoground.Enter
System.Exception: Missing nav type data for nav type:Floor
  at NavGrid.GetNavTypeData (NavType nav_type) [0x00058] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\ai\navigation\NavGrid.cs:411 

 

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1 hour ago, QuantumPion said:

The arithmetic average of 10 and 1000 is 505. If you instead use logarithms you get e^(ln 10 + ln 1000)/2 = 100. This is a way of fudging the numbers so that large values don’t skew the average as much. However it is still non physical, it is not how thermal conductivity works. They should fix the real problem instead of just playing things until they look right in some situations (and not work in others)

I hear this but everything is contrived in such a game anyway. Even if mechanics were real-world, you're still making up things like, power values and masses. In other words some amount of "balance" and game design go into it no matter what, and part of it's just making things work in a way that's good for the game.

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Getting a Crash error where apparently:

Exception in: (Pacu).FallStates.root.snaptoground.Enter
System.Exception: Missing nav type data for nav type:Floor
  at NavGrid.GetNavTypeData (NavType nav_type) [0x00058] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\ai\navigation\NavGrid.cs:411 
  at Navigator.SetCurrentNavType (NavType nav_type) [0x00026] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\components\Navigator.cs:446 
  at CreatureFallMonitor+Instance.SnapToGround () [0x00047] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\components\Creatures\CreatureFallMonitor.cs:30

 

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I am not really happy about those temperature "experiments".
I really would like, when Klei would say something, how you think those radiant pipes should be used, because i get strange results.
It feels not really better for me now.
When it comes to the steam engine, still feels like a "missing" link.
Aquatuner up to 175° but then geyser volcanos are only option to push temperature higher?
To setup a steamgenerator (in survival), there must be more failproof / efficiency for that thing.
I checked so many maps in worldgen and most of them got completely useless volcanos/geyser / dormancy / active combinations.
In the moment they are on the same level like the ruins for me. They block space, nothing else, without an option to optimize geysers/volcanos.


image.thumb.png.755f0f5277cf48bc699ad6c44ab0eab9.png

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1 minute ago, watermelen671 said:

Getting a Crash error where apparently:


Exception in: (Pacu).FallStates.root.snaptoground.Enter
System.Exception: Missing nav type data for nav type:Floor
  at NavGrid.GetNavTypeData (NavType nav_type) [0x00058] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\ai\navigation\NavGrid.cs:411 
  at Navigator.SetCurrentNavType (NavType nav_type) [0x00026] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\components\Navigator.cs:446 
  at CreatureFallMonitor+Instance.SnapToGround () [0x00047] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\components\Creatures\CreatureFallMonitor.cs:30

 

Same error

Exception in: (Pacu).FallStates.root.snaptoground.Enter
System.Exception: Missing nav type data for nav type:Floor
  at NavGrid.GetNavTypeData (NavType nav_type) [0x00058] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\ai\navigation\NavGrid.cs:411
  at Navigator.SetCurrentNavType (NavType nav_type) [0x00026] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\components\Navigator.cs:446
  at CreatureFallMonitor+Instance.SnapToGround () [0x00047] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\components\Creatures\CreatureFallMonitor.cs:30
  at FallStates.<InitializeStates>m__2 (.Instance smi) [0x00006] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\Mods\Fauna\Chores\FallStates.cs:45
  at StateMachine`4+GenericInstance[StateMachineType,StateMachineInstanceType,MasterType,DefType].ExecuteActions (.State state, .Action[] actions) [0x00047] in D:\JenkinsWorkspace\Preview_Simgame_Windows\game\Assets\scripts\ai\statemachine\StateMachine.cs:826

 

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