Character Reworks???

[watermelen671]

AGH! WALLS OF TEXT!!

[GMDApple]

:/

[Alarsin]

Also speaking of nerfs of strong characters, I'm not sure the community fully agrees on who are these "strong characters". The idea of "holy trinity" is defined by some guy known as Edgy Rick. I don't think his opinion can be consider very objective, but he does have a point, however, Rick is quite... uh... uncompromising about his opinions. He defines the "top tier" characters as Wolfgang, WX, and Wickerbottom. From what I've seen, I wouldn't say everyone agrees with this. 

[Sinister_Fang]

52 minutes ago, GMDApple said:

On a side note I feel like if you're putting Winona on the list of characters who need a buff you might as well put Wilson on there as well. Even if he is the mascot Winona is better if you can deal with Freezing. Wilson can make beard hair which... right now can only make two things: bernie, and a meat effigy. Both of which you don't really use much, or maybe at all.

The problem is that Winona fills the exact same niche Wilson does (and dose it better, even if barely). Wilson seems fine as is. In a game like this it's good to have a baseline character with minimal impact on game mechanics. However, there's not really any need for two. Winona needs not just a buff, but a nerf as well. She needs a good advantage countered by a disadvantage. Otherwise, she's just Wilson 2.0.

[CaptainChaotica]

My main complaint about the poll itself is I wish you could vote for two.  In my case, Willow AND Woodie.

Both used to be more fun to play.  Werebeaver suuuuuccccckkkks compared to its original, much stronger form.  Willow's insanity fires needed removing, but insanity-_freezing_ is obnoxious.  I've already said all this before, many other people have too, yada yada those are the two characters who changed the most from singleplayer to Together in terms of just..._fun_.

Anyway.  Guess I'll vote for Willow, as I play as her more often than Woodie.  (But I need a MOD to do so enjoyably!)

...Notorious

[fimmatek]

3 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

The problem is that Winona fills the exact same niche Wilson does (and dose it better, even if barely). Wilson seems fine as is. In a game like this it's good to have a baseline character with minimal impact on game mechanics. However, there's not really any need for two. Winona needs not just a buff, but a nerf as well. She needs a good advantage countered by a disadvantage. Otherwise, she's just Wilson 2.0.

I don't think that is a problem. Beginners do need easy characters to play with, and there's only these two currently. That's not too much out of the 12, we still got plenty others with more meaningful perks to play. 

Back then as I was a beginner I do would have loved some more easy characters. I remember, once when I started a "survive as long as possible" world I was bored of Wilson too much and most other characters were simply too difficult yet to play. I wanted a someone I could surely survive with long enough, and Winona would have been a great alternative (and in general for learning the game).

[Alarsin]

3 hours ago, fimmatek said:

I don't think that is a problem. Beginners do need easy characters to play with, and there's only these two currently. That's not too much out of the 12, we still got plenty others with more meaningful perks to play. 

Back then as I was a beginner I do would have loved some more easy characters. I remember, once when I started a "survive as long as possible" world I was bored of Wilson too much and most other characters were simply too difficult yet to play. I wanted a someone I could surely survive with long enough, and Winona would have been a great alternative (and in general for learning the game).

I'd say Willow and Wendy are also newbie-oriented. As Wendy, you don't even have to fight for the most part, the ghost will fight for you.

[Captain_Rage]

4 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

My main complaint about the poll itself is I wish you could vote for two.  In my case, Willow AND Woodie.

Both used to be more fun to play.  Werebeaver suuuuuccccckkkks compared to its original, much stronger form.  Willow's insanity fires needed removing, but insanity-_freezing_ is obnoxious.  I've already said all this before, many other people have too, yada yada those are the two characters who changed the most from singleplayer to Together in terms of just..._fun_.

Anyway.  Guess I'll vote for Willow, as I play as her more often than Woodie.  (But I need a MOD to do so enjoyably!)

...Notorious

This is my main concern as well. Willow and Woodie got changed too much from the original game. Supposedly it was to eliminate some troublesome aspects that could arise in a multiplayer game (Willow's pyromania simply would be too unforgiving when playing with others, especially taking the lag into consideration, and whatnot). However, the new changes felt rushed and poorly implemented. Neither Woodie or Willow received any perks (well.... it's open for debate, but I think most of you will agree) that would let them stand out, complement or synergize in the multiplayer mode.

[Lumina]

Well, Willow has Bernie, and Bernie has some potential, but i don't have the feeling that it's currently enough. Maybe if Willow could make Bernie boost a party when she is around, like preventing sanity loss ? This way, she would act as a sanity shield for the team, useful for some fight when your sanity is drained quickly ?

[Captain_Rage]

If Bernie would interact with the shadow creatures in the ruins that would more than enough.... it's only confusing that he is stalling some shadow creatures while ignoring others, despite them being identical (except for spawn location). Inconsequent game mechanics are never fun.

The sanity shield idea is nice. He could also stick around or follow Willow somehow, instead of shambling about the same location. It's not useful that he's stuck in one place when you actually need defense against shadow creatures (since the nasty part about the shadows is that they are following you).

[Lumina]

Code wise, they are different creature, it's not only the spawn location. I don't know if they are different lore-wise, however.

[GMDApple]

17 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

The problem is that Winona fills the exact same niche Wilson does (and dose it better, even if barely). Wilson seems fine as is. In a game like this it's good to have a baseline character with minimal impact on game mechanics. However, there's not really any need for two. Winona needs not just a buff, but a nerf as well. She needs a good advantage countered by a disadvantage. Otherwise, she's just Wilson 2.0.

I think that instead on buffing her and nerfing her based on her current mechanics, just change her completely as a character. She was nothing flashy of a character when she came out (still isn’t), and I think a rework could change that.

[Zeklo]

Random thought: Allow Winona to duct tape amulets to chest-slot items.

Did I consider balance? No, just something to stimulate conversation. Tear into it as much or as little as you'd like.

[Maxposting]

4 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Random thought: Allow Winona to duct tape amulets to chest-slot items.

Did I consider balance? No, just something to stimulate conversation. Tear into it as much or as little as you'd like.

That would be hard considering all that green gem here and there and how would magiluminescence work? could you put it only on boner armor ??

 

[Sinister_Fang]

2 hours ago, GMDApple said:

I think that instead on buffing her and nerfing her based on her current mechanics, just change her completely as a character. She was nothing flashy of a character when she came out (still isn’t), and I think a rework could change that.

That's pretty much what I was saying, in a rather roundabout way. She would need a good advantage (a buff) and a disadvantage (a nerf) to make her a more interesting character.

[Rosten]

There are a few problems with this suggestion; namely, that we've already had a major character rework in the form of Strange New Powers.

The second being that the characters were never *meant* to be balanced- now, this has basically always been a suggestion. People complaining that Wolfgang was ridiculously overpowered has been a thing since the game was only available on a Standalone client. The characters and their differences aren't mean to make them equally strong or weak, they're meant to introduce new playstyles to the game and offer spins on the general experience. Wolfgang is strong, yes, but he wasn't made that way because Klei set out to make a character who was competitively strong, because Don't Starve isn't a competitive game, he was made that way in order to promote a certain playstyle to offer a different way to play the game, the same is true of every other character, they all exist in order to fulfill a different sort of niche and offer a unique play experience. The reason we had the first character rework, Strange New Powers, was not because any one character was too weak or too strong, it was because for longest time, characters managed to feel pretty samey, and they were tuned more drastically so that they'd have more obvious differences, this naturally led to some characters being more difficult or risky to play as, and others being less so, but as of now each character has something that makes them unique from the rest of the cast, and that's how it was meant to be.

[GenomeSquirrel]

1 hour ago, Rosten said:

the same is true of every other character, they all exist in order to fulfill a different sort of niche and offer a unique play experience.

Walls of text like this need to be supported with examples, you can’t expect people to accept your comments axiomatically.

There’s a good chunk of voters that would argue that Willow and Winona don’t even niches. Explain why they’re wrong.

You forgot to have your “problems” be problematic.

And giving developer intentions as a reason definitely calls for a citation.

[Rosten]

2 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Walls of text like this need to be supported with examples, you can’t expect people to accept your comments axiomatically.

There’s a good chunk of voters that would argue that Willow and Winona don’t even niches. Explain why they’re wrong.

Willow, as a character, was designed to be used by newbies who had trouble with Charlie and other aspects of the game, before Strange New Powers, her ability was to light fires on the ground before Charlie could attack her, the Lighter still basically serves this purpose and her predilection towards fires plus Bernie helps new players deal with the dangers of Sanity. It's true that she isn't very useful to experienced players, but she isn't really meant to be.

 

Winona is honestly a weirder character, I think she's meant to be a sort of Wilson+ (A philosophy evidenced by their shared base stats), a character who is for all intents and purposes quite basic, but also has some apparently minor buffs that smooth over gameplay a llot and offer some extra little tricks for more experienced player, like being able to get out of a sticky situation with her shorter crafting speed (Like if your weapon or armor breaks during fight). Overall, the ease of access to clothing repair in addition to the short-term immunity to Charlie plus the crafting speed bonus make her a solid option for those looking for a character who isn't as flashy as Wendy or Wickerbottom but still has substantial advantages of her own

2 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

You forgot to have your “problems” be problematic.

This is less of a topic that needs to be argued against so much as one that needs to be argued for, especially given how much would need to be changed this late in Don't Starve's development cycle for a large-scale character rework.

2 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

And giving developer intentions as a reason definitely calls for a citation.

Give me a minute and I'll dig through year-old Suggestions threads to find 'em, Klei doesn't comment on Suggestions much now though.

[Cpt. KatKit]

On 10/5/2018 at 3:11 AM, Giggimish said:

Willow should be able to put out flames for sanity (Or something that would take her off the "Griefer" character list)

That's pretty out of character though.

Honestly I think they can just nerf low sanity a bit (Fix being able to hit shadow creatures several times per time they teleport) and go from there, that alone would make all useless downsides based off it actually matter.

[Maxposting]

On 4. 10. 2018 at 11:08 PM, Lakurius said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

give him 150 hp, double all the damage he receives.

75 , gets 1x damage

thats literally 1:1

math math

[fimmatek]

10 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

thats literally 1:1

math math

Lakurion's suggestion means that Maxwell would need twice as much healing as now. 

[JJ0264]

Wicker, Wx, Wolfgang and maybe Max need nerfs

Willow, Woodie, Warly and maybe Wendy need buff

Winona and Walani need more interesting things to do

[Thalkas]

1 hour ago, JJ0264 said:

Wicker, Wx, Wolfgang and maybe Max need nerfs

Willow, Woodie, Warly and maybe Wendy need buff

Winona and Walani need more interesting things to do

Warly and Walani are from Shipwrecked not DST.

I think Wicker, Wx, Wolf and Max dont need nerfs, but rest needs buff or rework.

Wendy's Abigail need small buff - more HP (900 or 1200 HP would be nice) and maybe bigger dmg aganist champions (5%) and bosses (10%). Wigfrid also need something like bigger dmg against champions and boss (for champions like Spider Queen, Treeguard - 10% more dmg; for bosses - 15 or 20% more dmg) and maybe takes 35% (not default 25%) from champions and bosses.

I don't have idea how to buff or rework Woodie - i dont play him. 

Willow need mega rework. Her lighter should be better than torch (maybe bigger area that illuminates and bigger durability) and cant burn structures - now 90% pickrate is trolling and griefing, because her lighter can burn everything. She should have fire dmg boost for fire weapons - like darts, staff. Maybe more resistance to fire atacks and overheating?

Winona like Willow need rework. She is nice but her twice faster build is nothing, same tape in later game. We know about her work in Voxola, maybe she would have unlocked first machine recipes like Wickerbottom. I think as "hard worker" she have enough knowledge about survival - should she can pick twigs, grass, beries ect faster. Tape why tape cant fix tools or sleeping bag? Its tape, tape can fix everything - love too!

 

[Rosten]

33 minutes ago, Thalkas said:

Willow need mega rework. Her lighter should be better than torch (maybe bigger area that illuminates and bigger durability) and cant burn structures - now 90% pickrate is trolling and griefing, because her lighter can burn everything. She should have fire dmg boost for fire weapons - like darts, staff. Maybe more resistance to fire atacks and overheating?

I seriously don't know where this stigma against Willow comes from, literally every character in the game can craft a torch for little to no investment.

Willows current purpose is to serve as a way for newbies to get used to the game by giving them help with things that they commonly have problems with (namely: Sanity and Charlie). More resistance to Overheating would be quite nice, I think, to supplement that, but her fire resistance already halves fire damage, it was nerfed for a reason

[Zeklo]

15 minutes ago, Rosten said:

I seriously don't know where this stigma against Willow comes from, literally every character in the game can craft a torch for little to no investment.

Willows current purpose is to serve as a way for newbies to get used to the game by giving them help with things that they commonly have problems with (namely: Sanity and Charlie). More resistance to Overheating would be quite nice, I think, to supplement that, but her fire resistance already halves fire damage, it was nerfed for a reason

Wouldn't her sanity debuff make her a bad choice for new players? Since winter and sanity are kinda the crutch of noob troubles, so losing extra temperature due to sanity during winter would kinda stack up.