erso Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Hi, I am looking for a way, as reproducible as possible, to heat a liquid to around 675 °K. The reason is that I would like to transform Oil to Petroleum without using the Oil Refinery (and loosing nearly 50% of the input). So far, my attempts always fail because I either generate Natural Gas or very warm Crude Oil. My best structure so far consisted of a basin that was filled with Oil and heated with magma. Petroleum (82.2 g/mol) ran over and Oil (500.0 g/mol) was replenished directly. The problem was controlling the reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martosss Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 a quick search can give you at least 4 topics where this is discussed. https://forums.kleientertainment.com/search/?&q=boiler&type=forums_topic&sortby=relevancy I also haven't done that yet, but I know the topics exist so I know where to look for ideas. Good luck building those, that seems like a lot of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he77789 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Those are all for Natgas. He wants petrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erso Posted August 6, 2018 Author Share Posted August 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, martosss said: a quick search can give you at least 4 topics where this is discussed. https://forums.kleientertainment.com/search/?&q=boiler&type=forums_topic&sortby=relevancy I also haven't done that yet, but I know the topics exist so I know where to look for ideas. Good luck building those, that seems like a lot of fun! Transforming Oil to Natural Gas is not a problem. I'm not looking for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he77789 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 The temp range is really too thin so no one succeed and posted results... unless higher temp pumps and sensors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafker Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 I never tried that, but can oil turn into petroleum inside pipes? It just crossed my mind - the way of heating pipes with oil inside it and either thermo or element sensors on top of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 26 minutes ago, he77789 said: The temp range is really too thin so no one succeed and posted results... unless higher temp pumps and sensors... No one has really tried, its not that no one succeeded, in the end Nat Gas is a better energy source than petroleum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLW Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 What's the temperature range allowed again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevio Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 28 minutes ago, erso said: Hi, I am looking for a way, as reproducible as possible, to heat a liquid to around 675 °K. The reason is that I would like to transform Oil to Petroleum without using the Oil Refinery (and loosing nearly 50% of the input). So far, my attempts always fail because I either generate Natural Gas or very warm Crude Oil. My best structure so far consisted of a basin that was filled with Oil and heated with magma. Petroleum (82.2 g/mol) ran over and Oil (500.0 g/mol) was replenished directly. The problem was controlling the reaction. I ran into a similar problem with my Meteor Magmaficator: How do I keep the regolith melting chamber at a stable temperature just above regolith's melting point when I can't measure the temperature directly? I found a solution by detecting the event of regolith melting and using a filter gate to only allow additional heat into the chamber when no melting event has occurred for 20 seconds. Your problem is slightly different but it could be solved as well by throttling the heat input into the conversion chamber based on detecting the conversion of crude oil to petroleum. I can think of two ways that you can detect the conversion. If you convert it in batches, crude oil can go up to a pressure of 870 kg but petroleum tiles can hold only 740 kg. So if you convert a full tile of crude oil (detectable with a hydro sensor), then upon conversion it will spill into the tile above, which you can also detect with a hydro sensor. If you'd rather refine oil in a more continuous process, you could have a ledge in your melting chamber for runoff petroleum and detect when the oil in the bottom tile has pushed the petroleum into the tile above for too long. I'm not sure yet about how to safeguard the system from adding too much oil when there is a lack of heat since unlike conveyor systems and storage compactors, the amount of input material in the conversion chamber isn't automatically capped. Probably by detecting pressure in the bottom tile as well and stopping oil input if that ever reaches too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Oil boiler.sav ==================================== If you find Oil turn to NG directly, try to slow down the heat exchange, for example, remove some tempshift plates. The airflow tile can be replaced by insulated tile. I forgot to replace it. Before start Start: Close airlocks, begin to heat Vent Overpressure & Heating Oil-->Petro Vent exhaust oil again Tank is full, stop heating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erso Posted August 6, 2018 Author Share Posted August 6, 2018 3 hours ago, R9MX4 said: Tank is full, stop heating I can not believe how easy your solution is. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDoroFF Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 1 hour ago, erso said: I can not believe how easy your solution is. Thank you! Also you can make labirint before tank. And run pipes with oil throught it. Labirint allows you to preheat oil and save energy. Furthermore, pipes cool your petrol down to managable temperatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevio Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 With @R9MX4's solution you will still need to have a safeguard in place to stop heating if your crude oil supply pipe ever runs dry, but that could be solved with an element detector in the pipeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnis Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Really love how simple R9MX4 solution is. If only petroleum had any use.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevio Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 It's great for making all the plastic you need for a big tube network.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 6 hours ago, rafker said: I never tried that, but can oil turn into petroleum inside pipes? It just crossed my mind - the way of heating pipes with oil inside it and either thermo or element sensors on top of it No the pipes will break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Even if you can do it, you end up with hot petrol. Isn't it better to take the relatively cool petrol coming out of the refinery and use that to cool an aquatuner that in turn cools your base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martosss Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, psusi said: Even if you can do it, you end up with hot petrol. Isn't it better to take the relatively cool petrol coming out of the refinery and use that to cool an aquatuner that in turn cools your base? Not if that costs you 1/2 of the material? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Flying Fox Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 So, I've previously posted a Oil-to-Petro boiler sometime in the past a few different threads. Which is this older unit before we had radiant pipes. It too used the idea of the oil being heavier then petro and displacing it. The heat exchanger can be significantly shortened at this point due to radiant pipes. It worked pretty dang well in using heat pretty efficiently and petro came out at pumpable temperature. While it worked for hundreds of cycles in my debug Lab save, getting it to work just perfectly was a little fussy. I was recently playing with other options to improve the design which worked a little better using a tank of hot petro as the heat source which worked better still, but @R9MX4 design gave me an idea..! This! This produces a steady steam of petroleum which is great to push through a heat exchanger like my old model and it regulates heat easily! The bottom hydro-sensor is set to Below 800KG (Only Oil can stack that high) and the top hydro-sensor is set to Below 700KG (Detecting for Petro) So, if too much oil is in the bottom, it stops pouring in oil. If the top sensor detects too much Petro in the top tile then it opens the door which means there's too much heat. Too little Petro and it closes the door. Seems to work pretty good. I tested the valve set to 500G/s (Too little to keep it cool so the door stayed open more) and up too 3000G/s (Too much oil/cooling and the door stayed close) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, martosss said: Not if that costs you 1/2 of the material? But then what will you use to keep your aquatuner cool? And can't you just keep making more oil with slicksters, so who really cares about loosing half of it? Also you do get NG as a byproduct. Not sure how much that NG is worth in power vs. the other half of the petrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martosss Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Just now, psusi said: But then what will you use to keep your aquatuner cool? And can't you just keep making more oil with slicksters, so who really cares about loosing half of it? Also you do get NG as a byproduct. Not sure how much that NG is worth in power vs. the other half of the petrol. For me water is the important bit, and as long as you're wasting 1/2 on petro, it's not worth the investment. And you can use polluted water for your aquatuner or ice biome water. And slicksters eat a lot of CO2, so I guess you'll run out of CO2 to feed them(you produce 1kg/dupe/day, so ~1 slickster/15 dupes? I don't see how the slickster math works out unless you have a massive CO2 geyser). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Flying Fox Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Ohhh, this is working great now! The output is slowly heating up, so the heat-exchanger needs to be a bit longer. Input oil is at 66C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Flying Fox Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Well, after a revision and letting it run a number of cycles, I now have a lean mean petroleum producing machine that sips heat, runs continuously at 2KG/s of oil, (With plenty to spare on the throttle!) and outputs a steady 90ish C pump-able petroleum. The only thing that'll have to played with, is how to 'wire' up the heat source for each individuals needs. My dreams of turning Petroleum generators into Dupe-made slush geysers and having them still be water positive while being fed by an oil well... are a go! (Yes, I realize the natural gas gens are far more efficient doing that but, I think in most of my games. I'd rather build just a few petroleum generators.. verse a whole army of natural gas generators!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDoroFF Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 9 hours ago, The Flying Fox said: My dreams of turning Petroleum generators into Dupe-made slush geysers and having them still be water positive while being fed by an oil well... are a go! (Yes, I realize the natural gas gens are far more efficient doing that but, I think in most of my games. I'd rather build just a few petroleum generators.. verse a whole army of natural gas generators!) My worst predicament with building oil converter be it oil-petrol or oil-Nat.gas is the length of preheater pipe system. It relatively easy in dev mode, however in normal game this system being built distract me every cycle and makes me load savegame again and again if pipe broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 hours ago, CDoroFF said: My worst predicament with building oil converter be it oil-petrol or oil-Nat.gas is the length of preheater pipe system. It relatively easy in dev mode, however in normal game this system being built distract me every cycle and makes me load savegame again and again if pipe broke. You can solve this by running the preheating radiant pipes inside doors that open and close with a thermo sensor. In most cases it's only the final adjustment of temperature that needs to be variable so you only need it for the bit closest to the conversion chamber. EDIT: If you want to avoid excessive door flapping, you can use staggered 2s delays on the doors. Ie. temp too higher, 1st door open. Still too high after 2s, 2nd door opens and so on. If after any point temp drops all doors will close instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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