Help: Stable heat source for ~ 673 °K

[avc15]

I have an alternate approach here... You can't easily measure temp above the temp sensor's upper limit, but it's still possible. Just annoying. Also, systems that rely on carefully matched flow rates can go wrong sometimes.

You know another way to sense phase change from oil to petroleum? Density (a liquid level sensor). Put the liquid sensor in a full tile of oil just one layer below the surface, and it'll read around 865 kg. After changing phase, that same sensor will read around 735 kg.

So you can sense that a column of oil has "boiled" into petroleum by checking for pressure below 850kg as long as you make sure it's in a full tile of liquid. (there are some edge cases you have to control with automation, like, partially boiled tiles)

I had a build that did this, but autosaves ate it. I'd heat a chamber of oil until all 4 columns had changed phase, then dump the contents out into a holding tank that went into a precooler (for the petrol)/preheater (for the oil). Since this build didn't overheat the petroleum at all, I never ran into a problem with pipes breaking.

 

[rafker]

13 hours ago, martosss said:

For me water is the important bit, and as long as you're wasting 1/2 on petro, it's not worth the investment. And you can use polluted water for your aquatuner or ice biome water. And slicksters eat a lot of CO2, so I guess you'll run out of CO2 to feed them(you produce 1kg/dupe/day, so ~1 slickster/15 dupes? I don't see how the slickster math works out unless you have a massive CO2 geyser).

though slicksters tend not to consume CO2 on several occasions, which has been discussed a lot here (i don't remember any patch in EU that covered that, although that was the same case for eggs, incubating inside transport belts, and they nerfed it)

[martosss]

Just now, rafker said:

though slicksters tend not to consume CO2 on several occasions, which has been discussed a lot here (i don't remember any patch in EU that covered that, although that was the same case for eggs, incubating inside transport belts, and they nerfed it)

In all honesty I haven't used them yet, but I've tried to gather my CO2 and not delete it - you never know when it might come in handy.

[CDoroFF]

2 hours ago, Saturnus said:

You can solve this by running the preheating radiant pipes inside doors that open and close with a thermo sensor. In most cases it's only the final adjustment of temperature that needs to be variable so you only need it for the bit closest to the conversion chamber.

EDIT: If you want to avoid excessive door flapping, you can use staggered 2s delays on the doors. Ie. temp too higher, 1st door open. Still too high after 2s, 2nd door opens and so on. If after any point temp drops all doors will close instantly.

Amazing system! Thx. But how it works if i need to manage liquids with temp above 300C°?

[Saturnus]

14 minutes ago, CDoroFF said:

Amazing system! Thx. But how it works if i need to manage liquids with temp above 300C°?

You don't have to have it right at the end. If you know that there's going to for example 60K temperature delta in the last section you put it in before that bit to adjust the input temperature before that section to maintain 300C and then add the 60K delta for total of 360C. You probably don't want to get it closer than 10% from pipe damage temperature in a survival game. It may cost a little more magma than strictly necessary but will save a lot of head aches trying to get it to work reliably without pipe damage.

[The Flying Fox]

9 hours ago, avc15 said:

I have an alternate approach here... You can't easily measure temp above the temp sensor's upper limit, but it's still possible. Just annoying. Also, systems that rely on carefully matched flow rates can go wrong sometimes.

You know another way to sense phase change from oil to petroleum? Density (a liquid level sensor). Put the liquid sensor in a full tile of oil just one layer below the surface, and it'll read around 865 kg. After changing phase, that same sensor will read around 735 kg.

So you can sense that a column of oil has "boiled" into petroleum by checking for pressure below 850kg as long as you make sure it's in a full tile of liquid. (there are some edge cases you have to control with automation, like, partially boiled tiles)

I had a build that did this, but autosaves ate it. I'd heat a chamber of oil until all 4 columns had changed phase, then dump the contents out into a holding tank that went into a precooler (for the petrol)/preheater (for the oil). Since this build didn't overheat the petroleum at all, I never ran into a problem with pipes breaking.

 

Using an averaged Thermo sensor is one of the previous ideas I had been toying with.  Keep a tank of hot petroleum around 430-450 degrees C by dropping only clunks of hot igneous rock or metals into it from volcanoes.  To be able to measure that temperature with the 300C limited Thermo-sensor, I was going to use one of these:

 

 

This hit the averaged temperature difference between the two sides under less then a half a cycle. (Starting from cold)  And the two sides changed less then 1C during that time.  I tried using gases in the center 3 tiles, but those gave less then ideal results.  Better thermal conductivity wins with this kind of system with as little of transfer medium as possible.  Hence each of the center tiles is only 10 grams of petroleum.  Certainly difficult to create in survival but possible.  I was thinking a single wheezewort on the cold side with a door to turn it on and off at the ideal temperature would be just fine.

 

As for how you describe to use density of the oil verse the petroleum to see if it's boiled or now, that's basically how the machine I posted works, just differently.  I let my petroluem generator run for 30 cycles without issue at 2KG/s.  As you can see, it converted most of that tank of oil pretty easily.  I then further tested 500G/s and now 3KG/s without problems.  The thing is, ONI currently doesn't phase liquids inside pipes if they're 1KG packets or smaller, so if you run that amount, you're not going to break pipes anyway.  Between 1KG/s and 2KG/s a second, the final radiant pipe might be a little too close to the reaction chamber and it could break, in that case, then just remove that pipe and it'll be fine.  After 2KG/s and the sheer amount of oil trying to pre-heat through the system suppresses the upper temperature of the oil and it's not going to break the pipes.

 

 

In any-case, it's far better then loosing half the mass of the oil going through the oil refinery.  Not only that, but the properties of petroleum are.. well just plain better then oil anyway.  Not by much, but it's something and petroleum just has more uses then oil.  Just about the only thing you can't do with petroluem that you can do with oil.. is put it through an oil refinery. 

[neoazureus]

I did this boiler with @Sevio and @R9MX4 ideas.

Spoiler

I only need to build a preheating chamber with petroleum and crude oil below that airlock and a cooling chamber. Made in survival/no_debug mode

[AnotherBoris]

On 06.08.2018 at 9:31 PM, erso said:

The problem was controlling the reaction.

 

[habuky]

On 7.8.2018 at 3:35 AM, The Flying Fox said:

 

This!  This produces a steady steam of petroleum which is great to push through a heat exchanger like my old model and it regulates heat easily!  The bottom hydro-sensor is set to Below 800KG  (Only Oil can stack that high) and the top hydro-sensor is set to Below 700KG (Detecting for Petro) So, if too much oil is in the bottom, it stops pouring in oil.  If the top sensor detects too much Petro in the top tile then it opens the door which means there's too much heat.  Too little Petro and it closes the door.  Seems to work pretty good.  I tested the valve set to 500G/s (Too little to keep it cool so the door stayed open more) and up too 3000G/s  (Too much oil/cooling and the door stayed close)

Do  you mind posting your save file?

I have the problem, that while cooling down the petroleum the oil is rising above 125°C and thus the both valves start overheating quite quickly. 

Thx!

[The Flying Fox]

10 hours ago, habuky said:

Do  you mind posting your save file?

I have the problem, that while cooling down the petroleum the oil is rising above 125°C and thus the both valves start overheating quite quickly. 

Thx!

Sure, if you want.  Don't mind all the old machines scattered about the Lab.  The Oil to Petro boiler I've since improved quite a bit since that picture.

 

As for over-heating valves, typically you just need to keep them outside a machine like this as they do, indeed, over-heat rather easily.

Lab8.sav

[WanderingKid]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:07 AM, R9MX4 said:

Oil boiler.sav

====================================

If you find Oil turn to NG directly, try to slow down the heat exchange, for example, remove some tempshift plates.

The airflow tile can be replaced by insulated tile. I forgot to replace it.

Tank is full, stop heating

A bit of a necro, but I was desperately searching for this with the new rocket upgrade.  As always, thank you for this, particularly your save files that are both easy to follow and incredibly useful.