Self-Powering Oxygen Module MkII - (Production-And-Cooling)

[M29]

Here's my attempt at a better S.P.O.M.

The changes :

- Hyrdogen generator in a neighbor room cooled down by the weezeworts.

- Power station means 600 extra watt instead of around 200 with the original design

- Added gas shutoff and power shutoff to redirect extra hydrogen & power where needed

(one smart battery hooked to a NOT gate hooked to the shutoffs with 100% StandBy 60% Active) 

- Power transformer to avoid overloading circuitry inside the S.P.O.M. since it's sealed. 

(The power transformer is for electricity sent outside the S.P.O.M...) 

 

I am still early testing this design though.

Temperature in the Weezeworts chamber seems to be dropping about 1 degree per day, which gives me the feeling it will work fine. 

(And I'm still filling the weezewort chamber with Hydrogen so I expect degrees to shed off faster once complete)

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Oxygen output between 10-20 degree and still cooling down. I expect the cooling effect to max out in another 50 cycles.

Leaking the cold through the hydrogen generator chamber seems to work well. 

 

Next step, if needed and if there's enough "cold" generation potential, will be to leak the cold at the bottom in the metal refinery room, which output water toward the S.P.O.M. 

Through sending the water output to the oxidizer, heat generated through the refinery in the water output is destroyed. 

Metal refinery generate quite some heat too so I am hoping to get the weezewort extra cold into the refinery chamber through upgrading abysalite bottom tile to gold + tempshift. 

I am waiting my O2 temperature to reach the 0-10 I had with the original S.P.O.M before proceeding. 

 

 

 

 

[Lifegrow]

Just to remind you all - the "S" and "P" in "S.P.O.M" (a god awful name, but a name nonetheless) stands for "SELF" and "POWERING".

Additional hydrogen from other sources? Not very "Spommy".

More focused on hydrogen production than oxygen quality? "UBER SPOM"

Eventually overheats due to inconclusive testing? "SPOMTASTIC SPOMMAGE OF THE HIGHEST SPOM"

Honestly this sort of build is/has been somewhat redundant for some time now - with the game becoming more geared up towards "how many different ways can I use this red hot material?" - the answers mostly being "drop oil on it!" (create nat gas for power) or "drop water on it!" (create steam, which in turn can be used for power)...

In the same time it takes to build one or two of these, you could have built a gas balanced electrolyzer build, a few hydrogen gens in a separate room cooled to -60 with a couple of wheezes, and an oil cooled setup to regulate your oxygen temperature to the exact degree (of which you could have in much higher amounts). Yes it'd take a bit more power, but holy balls it'd outperform your best attempt at a "SPOM" every day of the week.

In short the "S.P.O.M" is a noob trap, and would be best off retired to the depths along with hydrogen filled LOX radiators and "valve cooling".

I've said "S.P.O.M" too many times and now I need a shower.... Dirty SPOMs..

[M29]

1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

In short the "S.P.O.M" is a noob trap, and would be best off retired to the depths along with hydrogen filled LOX radiators and "valve cooling".

Well, the S.P.O.M. will allow me to focus on more advanced stuff. I am not even mastering how to use properly the geysers yet so getting a break from oxygen needs is great.

From the original design, I am able to collect extra hydrogen (if needed), extra power (600w) even though it power my fridge and a few lights.and I can even leak some cold elsewhere with the system being stable / reaching his optimum temperature. 

That's a plug & play box that provides me with the gift of sustainability. 

1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

Just to remind you all - the "S" and "P" in "S.P.O.M" (a god awful name, but a name nonetheless) stands for "SELF" and "POWERING".

Of course, that remains the main objective 

1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

Additional hydrogen from other sources? Not very "Spommy".

Not mine at least... 

1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

More focused on hydrogen production than oxygen quality? "UBER SPOM"

Not mine... Hydrogen gaz shutoff allows me to send extra hydrogen elsewhere should I need it at the expense of extra power generation but never at the expense of self-sustainability or oxygen production. 

 

[suicide commando]

I'd recomend also putting an airflow tile to the right and bottom right of the electrolyser, so it has more room for it's O2, that way it will never overflow it's O2 into the H2 pumping room. The way you set it up now has given me this problem when I used your design as this. the extra airflow tiles fixed this problem.

 

[habuky]

O2-Module from Saturnus VS the SPOM from QuQuasar

I compared the O2-Module from @Saturnus (let’s call it “BO2G”-Cube) with the SPOM from @QuQuasar and came up with an improved combination of both:

Comparison:
-    The BO2G follows the build and forget theory and uses early accessible materials only to prevent the need of “large amounts of exotic materials”. However the huge amount of needed resources (e.g. 22 Tempshift plates -> 17,6t of refined Iron or 176 runs of the metal refinery!) make it non-feasible in early game (<cycle 50).  Besides that (EDIT: see posts below)  it’s truly a great piece of virtual engineering, and once you can afford it, it’s a reliable build and forget module!
-    The SPOM comes at much lower building cost (e.g. 6 Tempshift plates -> 3,2t refined metal). But it uses exotic materials, making it non-feasible in early game. Plus it is not 100% cooled (batteries) and potentially wastes Hydrogen. If you do not care about heating the asteroid by a battery and losing a bit of hydrogen this module is very practical as well.  
-    Both modules use not very realistic ways of cooling. Both require quite some efforts (huge amounts or exotic material) to be built.

Improved fusion:
To get an easy and early accessible O2-module, I tried to combine the best from both modules:
-    It is built from Igneous rock, Granit, Iron Ore and Refined Iron only and uses 4 Wheezes.
-    No external power is needed (except for start-up and water supply), no external hydrogen is needed.
-    Small errors & improvements mentioned above are incorporated (battery + longer lip)
-    The hydrogen surplus is saved the chamber below auto-filled

SPO2GM.yaml

So far, I did not test it in the long run (>100cycles), but O2 comes out on average at ~20°C and it runs reliable so far.
I measured the in- and output roughly during 10 cycles:
H20:  - ~630kg/c
H: + ~8,6kg/c
O: + ~431kg/c

I know it's nothing surprising new, but I would be helpful to see, that it can be build with early materials as well. To continue the quest for good names, I suggest to call it SPO2GM.  Happy Easter.

Disclaimer:
-    I didn’t set out to create a better version of the SPOM (I tried with the module from Saturnus but failed).  I was looking for a feasible solution in my base
-    The content is definitely inspired by / based on post here in the forum

 

[Saturnus]

4 hours ago, habuky said:

Comparison:
-    The BO2G follows the build and forget theory and uses early accessible materials only to prevent the need of “large amounts of exotic materials”. However the huge amount of needed resources (e.g. 22 Tempshift plates -> 17,6t of refined Iron or 176 runs of the metal refinery!) make it non-feasible in early game (<cycle 50).  Besides that it’s truly a great piece of virtual engineering, and once you can afford it, it’s a reliable build and forget module!
 

Correction. My O2 generator build does not specify refined iron temp shift plates. It requires metal ore temp shift plates of any kind but not refined metal.

You can use gold amalgam, copper ore, wolframite or iron ore as you see fit. They'll have pretty much the same properties.

If you don't mind a little higher O2 temperatures, in the 24C-27C range you can even use granite temp shift plates.

Pre-ranching upgrade I typically had it the first one built and running between cycle 66 and 100. Depending on how fast I found a geyser to deliver the water. Post-ranching upgrade it'll probably stretch that time needed to run algae deoxidizers by 50% but you'll typically also have smaller dupe counts in post-ranching games to limit the strain on your starting resources. 

[habuky]

1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

build does not specify refined iron temp shift plates.

Dammit! All that work (17,6t of refined Iron) for nothing... 

Well but I can't say you didn't write that in your original post!

[QuQuasar]

I should probably update the original post to clarify a few things...

        

1. The materials mentioned in the OP are *optimal*, not *essential*. The only essential materials are gold amalgam for the hydrogen generator and pump and (debatably) abyssalite for the insulated tiles: everything else can be replaced with cheaper materials based on whether the item should be conductive (granite/metal) or insulating (igneous rock/abysssalite) with no significant loss in efficiency.

        

The tiles also do not need to be insulated: normal tiles made of abysallite will work just as well as insulated ones. Similarly, granite tiles or mechanised doors are just as good as metal ones.

        

2. I now set the upper atmosphere sensor to 1000 g to ensure the electrolyzer stays half-submerged in hydrogen.

        

To date, I still have yet to see the effect Saturnus described where a tile of oxygen will reach the hydrogen pump, so I still use a single tile lip.

        

3. Using smart batteries connected to the hydrogen generator is an obvious and smart upgrade here. However, because this is ONI, this introduces additional side effects you have to deal with.

        

Most importantly, if you don't either store or use the excess hydrogen it will quickly overpressurize the electrolyzer, cutting off your oxygen supply and suffocating your base. So you need a hydrogen storage box with a pump in it. The hydrogen will still be hot, so the piping and box needs to be abyssalite, and the pump gold amalgam.

        

Additionally, 1 hydrogen generator (100 g/s) isn't quite enough to utilize all the hydrogen produced by an electrolyzer working at max (133 g/s). So, you need a second hydrogen generator.

        

And the significant amount of downtime you see on on the hydrogen generator inside the SPOM might tempt you to connect it to one of your grids. Remember to build a two battery switch or replace your wires with conductive wires if you don't want to overload it.

        

I've mentioned before the possibility of building a Mk III: I might try and give that a shot when I get time. Not everything is suited to modularization, though: building hydrogen storage into the SPOM design would be a waste, since a single gas storage room could service all your SPOMs.

[Automatic620]

On 4/1/2018 at 10:07 PM, Lifegrow said:

Just to remind you all - the "S" and "P" in "S.P.O.M" (a god awful name, but a name nonetheless) stands for "SELF" and "POWERING".

Additional hydrogen from other sources? Not very "Spommy".

More focused on hydrogen production than oxygen quality? "UBER SPOM"

Eventually overheats due to inconclusive testing? "SPOMTASTIC SPOMMAGE OF THE HIGHEST SPOM"

Honestly this sort of build is/has been somewhat redundant for some time now - with the game becoming more geared up towards "how many different ways can I use this red hot material?" - the answers mostly being "drop oil on it!" (create nat gas for power) or "drop water on it!" (create steam, which in turn can be used for power)...

In the same time it takes to build one or two of these, you could have built a gas balanced electrolyzer build, a few hydrogen gens in a separate room cooled to -60 with a couple of wheezes, and an oil cooled setup to regulate your oxygen temperature to the exact degree (of which you could have in much higher amounts). Yes it'd take a bit more power, but holy balls it'd outperform your best attempt at a "SPOM" every day of the week.

In short the "S.P.O.M" is a noob trap, and would be best off retired to the depths along with hydrogen filled LOX radiators and "valve cooling".

I've said "S.P.O.M" too many times and now I need a shower.... Dirty SPOMs..

Could you post a gas balanced electrolyzer build that you would recommend or reference material, tried to search for it, but haven't come up with much.

[KittenIsAGeek]

1 hour ago, Automatic620 said:

Could you post a gas balanced electrolyzer build that you would recommend or reference material, tried to search for it, but haven't come up with much.

In order to be 'gas balanced' you have to pair your oxygen and hydrogen consumption.  OR you need to find a way to store the excess of whichever you're not consuming enough of.  If either builds up, your electrolyzer will stop.  Depending on your dupes and how you set the system up, you can run a hydrogen generator almost continually if you have around 10 dupes.  There are, perhaps, more efficient builds, but mine has been running for 250 cycles non-stop.  It produces roughly 600Kg/cycle of oxygen and the hydrogen produced more than powers the system.  In fact, for over 100 cycles, 90% of my entire base's power needs were met just off the hydrogen produced.

Spoiler

Its liquid cooled and puts out oxygen at a constant 19c. Nothing special about any materials used.  I used granite for the tempshift plates, gold for the metal tiles, and copper everywhere else.  Insulated pipes and walls -- didn't have access to abysallite when I built it.

One last note: I have a rather complex chamber system for buffering the output to ensure that it always runs continually.  This is the only way to truely 'balance' the electrolyzer.

Spoiler

Its a bit of a mess, since I had to re-do some of the piping later in the game to fix issues that came up.  For the curious: The oxygen chamber is currently empty, while the hydrogen is at a density of ~100kg/square.

I posted this whole build earlier in this thread.

[strawberrygirl]

On 2/20/2018 at 7:22 AM, Saturnus said:

The problem is the one tile gap to separate hydrogen from oxygen is too short. You need at least two tile long, one tile high tunnel to reliably filter oxygen out. Easy fix. Add a tile so it becomes 4 tiles long instead. 

Oxygen still getting through   I guess I am forced to use a filter. My fault maybe there may have been oxygen already still in the hydrogen chamber. I have to fix the generator again and flush the air out somehow.

 

[Mariilyn]

There is something I don't quite understand : why use physical filtration ? Is it to maximise hydrogen production ?

[Luminite2]

11 minutes ago, Mariilyn said:

There is something I don't quite understand : why use physical filtration ? Is it to maximise hydrogen production ?

I agree. Physical separation only makes sense if you want to cool the oxygen in-place without wasting too much cooling the hydrogen (which doesn't need to be cooled). If you're just going to cool the hydrogen anyway, you might as well build a much more compact setup with mechanical filters and cool the oxygen elswhere.

[WalterMatthau]

Could you swap for a Mini-Gas Pump to feed the Hydrogen? Is the volume low enough?

[QuQuasar]

56 minutes ago, WalterMatthau said:

Could you swap for a Mini-Gas Pump to feed the Hydrogen? Is the volume low enough?

I wouldn't recommend it. It wouldn't pump enough, it would melt (in my design specifically) and it would use more watts per gram of gas pumped.

[MF99K]

you should make a yaml debug template if you havent already

[gelat]

I can;t build this - the tempshift plates are blocking the construction of the airflow tiles and the metal tile just above the lower air vent - any idea how to get around this?

[Denisetwin]

1 hour ago, gelat said:

I can;t build this - the tempshift plates are blocking the construction of the airflow tiles and the metal tile just above the lower air vent - any idea how to get around this?

tempshift plates are buggy - build them last after you have build everything else or they don't build right. I never did get in the same tile as the metal, but that one made sense. 

[PhailRaptor]

The failure of the physical separator might be a result of the changes to gas flow.  Someone posted a screenshot in the release notes, showing how Hydrogen can get stuck underneath rows of tiles in an open space.  Perhaps this is the case here?

(I say this because over the course of 4 different bases, I've had SPOMs running for more than 300 cycles each and never had the physical filter slip.)

[beowulf2010]

Last base (just a couple days ago, probably due to the gas movement change) a slug or 2 of Hydrogen would occasionally slip into the Oxygen line, but I've yet to see any Oxygen get into the Hydrogen line (after the unit primes) across 3+ months of using my variation of this SPOM. 

Trying out a new version this base with only 2 pumps and mechanical filters instead of the physical separation. Should work but I won't be able to finish it to test till tomorrow. 

[AnotherBoris]

Hmm... Oxygen with low temperature, u said?

 

All deodorizers produce stable 46.85C oxygen and 16.85C Clay. Just put tempshift plates behind deodorizers and temperature will be about 20-25C.

And no power usage. Only for pumping water and oxygen.

[Nullus Maximus]

This seems to no longer work and heats up slowly over time, eventually to a quite hot degree =(

[The Flying Fox]

31 minutes ago, Nullus Maximus said:

This seems to no longer work and heats up slowly over time, eventually to a quite hot degree =(

That might depend upon your water line and the temperature of the input water.  But, the design should still work in the Cosmic version of the game.  Nothing has really changed to prevent it from working as it should.  4 wheezeworts in hydrogen should be enough to keep the oxygen nice and cool and the hydrogen area will generally get pretty hot, but shouldn't go over 70C very much, if at all.  The electrolyzer still produces hydrogen and oxygen at 70C.  So, the only thing that could make it go higher then that would be feeding the electrolyzer water hotter then that.  If you post a picture, we might be able to see what's going on with your design.

 

FYI, I saw you asking in the other thread so I'll say it here, the other design which used the nickname of “BO2G”-Cube will no longer function as it used a bug that was recently fixed.  

[Nullus Maximus]

I was using water at ~22c while testing it with developer tools, it was also ran through abyssalite tubing. I used each "optimal" material and the only thing I was unsure of (or if it matters) was the material the actual electrolyzer was made of so I used Copper. I also made it inside of a vacuum so no outside source of heat or coolant had an effect on the outcome of the oxygen produced and made the tubing that carries the oxygen out of abyssalite once it is inside of a wall and no longer near the Wheezeworts. I went ahead and built it again though just in case you see something I possibly missed.

I think I found the issue: I never disconnected the pipe that pumped hydrogen into the room with the Wheezeworts so there was a steady 22c heat element getting pumped in that disallowed the Wheezeworts time to cool the existing hydrogen, oops... It is now outputting 12c steady! Unfortunatly now I am having a new issue with the hydrogen generator getting broken due to the "wrong element" being used.

Also, if I use a smart battery what should I set the settings to in order to use excess hydrogen for something else while still having 100% uptime on oxygen production?

 

21 hours ago, The Flying Fox said:

FYI, I saw you asking in the other thread so I'll say it here, the other design which used the nickname of “BO2G”-Cube will no longer function as it used a bug that was recently fixed.

Thanks for responding to this as well, it's a shame but I suppose if it was using a bug it was bound to be fixed eventually.

 

Edit: The oxygen is actually dipping below 10c, how cold will this thing get O.o?

Edit2: After further testing it is getting below zero now. I stopped testing at -5c but I believe it would have kept going lower. This is way too cold for my dupes! How can I fix this?

[The Flying Fox]

23 hours ago, Nullus Maximus said:

I was using water at ~22c while testing it with developer tools, it was also ran through abyssalite tubing. I used each "optimal" material and the only thing I was unsure of (or if it matters) was the material the actual electrolyzer was made of so I used Copper. I also made it inside of a vacuum so no outside source of heat or coolant had an effect on the outcome of the oxygen produced and made the tubing that carries the oxygen out of abyssalite once it is inside of a wall and no longer near the Wheezeworts. I went ahead and built it again though just in case you see something I possibly missed.

I think I found the issue: I never disconnected the pipe that pumped hydrogen into the room with the Wheezeworts so there was a steady 22c heat element getting pumped in that disallowed the Wheezeworts time to cool the existing hydrogen, oops... It is now outputting 12c steady! Unfortunatly now I am having a new issue with the hydrogen generator getting broken due to the "wrong element" being used.

Also, if I use a smart battery what should I set the settings to in order to use excess hydrogen for something else while still having 100% uptime on oxygen production?

 

Thanks for responding to this as well, it's a shame but I suppose if it was using a bug it was bound to be fixed eventually.

 

Edit: The oxygen is actually dipping below 10c, how cold will this thing get O.o?

Edit2: After further testing it is getting below zero now. I stopped testing at -5c but I believe it would have kept going lower. This is way too cold for my dupes! How can I fix this?

It looks like there's still some oxygen in the top hydrogen chamber, so most likely it's picking up bits of oxygen from there which is damaging the hydrogen generator.  As for your cold issue, remove a wheezewort, maybe even two, but start with just one.  My calculations suggest that 2 wheezeworts would be good enough for 500 G/s of oxygen.  Since this version should be averaging around 800 G/s of oxygen, then 3 should be enough with some extra cooling capacity.

 

And the smart battery setting isn't going to really matter.  I'd just set the battery high so that it keeps itself topped off.  The machine is going to draw what it needs to draw.