Self-Powering Oxygen Module MkII - (Production-And-Cooling)

[Lutzkhie]

do hot insulated abyssalite radiates heat?

[QuQuasar]

1 hour ago, Lutzkhie said:

do hot insulated abyssalite radiates heat?

Yes, but only on a geological scale. On a human scale, no.

 

Unless they're alongside a tempshift plate or in the same tile as a pipe. There is a bug that greatly accelerates temperature shifts between buildings in the same tile.

[Tab1]

waiting for the SPOM MK3  

[Tab1]

I dont know what i did wrong but the oxygen is getting through to the hydrogen generator and wreaking havoc. I repaired it and let it run for a few more cycles but nope doesnt work.....

[Roboson]

What are your settings on the atmo switches? You want them to be set so the electrolizer is half covered in O2 any hydrogen. 

That gets you better hydrogen generation iirc. 

 

What's probably happening is all your hydrogen is getting sucked out and so oxygen is moving up.

[Yoma_Nosme]

What's your top atmo sensor set to?

[Saturnus]

6 hours ago, Tab1 said:

waiting for the SPOM MK3  

I posted a version that might be what you're looking for

[QuQuasar]

11 hours ago, Tab1 said:

waiting for the SPOM MK3  

I did build a Mk3 (or maybe 2.5? the design wasn't hugely different), which allowed me thermo-control the worts with mechanized airlocks and put a smart battery inside the enclosure above the electrolyzer, but I wasn't 100% happy with it. Something about the design caused it to overpressurize more often and reduced the efficiency: probably not by much, but enough to annoy me.
     
Instead, I might look at making an upscaled version for megabases that uses a thermal nullifier POI and tries to get the maximum quantity of cooled oxygen out of 4 electrolyzers.

 

5 hours ago, Tab1 said:

I dont know what i did wrong but the oxygen is getting through to the hydrogen generator and wreaking havoc. I repaired it and let it run for a few more cycles but nope doesnt work.....

Both atmo sensors should be set to "Above 500g". You also need to seal the wheezewort chamber with a metal tile and pump hydrogen into it (that's why that vent is there).

[Tab1]

6 hours ago, QuQuasar said:

I did build a Mk3 (or maybe 2.5? the design wasn't hugely different), which allowed me thermo-control the worts with mechanized airlocks and put a smart battery inside the enclosure above the electrolyzer, but I wasn't 100% happy with it. Something about the design caused it to overpressurize more often and reduced the efficiency: probably not by much, but enough to annoy me.
     
Instead, I might look at making an upscaled version for megabases that uses a thermal nullifier POI and tries to get the maximum quantity of cooled oxygen out of 4 electrolyzers.

 

Both atmo sensors should be set to "Above 500g". You also need to seal the wheezewort chamber with a metal tile and pump hydrogen into it (that's why that vent is there).

The temperature is not the problem right now. Its that the above pump is taking on oxygen. I want to resolve that first. both of my atmo senors are also set to above 500.

[Yoma_Nosme]

@Tab1 set the sensor on the hydrogen side to 1000g and build a filter to filter out the rest of the oxygen in the hydro chamber till there is only hydrogen this should work, carefully adjust the upper filter to maybe 800g and keep an eye on the filter if it processes oxygen, you went to low on the settings. If it's only pumping hydrogen you did it. Deconstruct the filter 

As a tip on the side. When you start the electrolyzer the first time let them run till they reach max pressure! Then activate the pumps. My guess is you let them run from the beginning, am I right?

[Tab1]

I tried both letting electro fill the room then running pumps but oxygen still gets in.

Setting upper atmo filter to 1000 still failed.

I think this build does not work without gas filter at all

[Yoma_Nosme]

@Tab1

Oh now I see...try moving the electrolyzer and the airflow tiles one field up. So the "nozzle" and electrolyzer are on the same height. Then try the things mentioned above. 

So there is only one tile height above the electrolyzer since only one kind of gas can fill one tile and hydrogen is lighter than oxygen this should prevent oxygen from flowing upwards:D sorry didn't see it at first

[Vendox]

2 hours ago, Tab1 said:

I tried both letting electro fill the room then running pumps but oxygen still gets in.

Setting upper atmo filter to 1000 still failed.

I think this build does not work without gas filter at all

I had the same problem.  I tried to fix it for over an hour and nothing I did worked.  The hydrogen generator would still take in tiny amounts of oxygen every so often.  It took almost 30 cycles to finally break down(that's how little it was taking), but when I opened it up for repair I just expanded the top right by two squares so I could fit in a filter.  Almost 150 cycles later and it has worked flawless and is still self powered.    

[Saturnus]

The problem is the one tile gap to separate hydrogen from oxygen is too short. You need at least two tile long, one tile high tunnel to reliably filter oxygen out. Easy fix. Add a tile so it becomes 4 tiles long instead. 

[QuQuasar]

Very odd. I had this design operating on full speed (though not super speed) for dozens of turns without causing any damage to the hydrogen generator. There were never any oxygen tiles in the upper chamber, only ever hydrogen.

 

One suggestion that might help: use the pumps to vacuum all of the gas out of the enclosure before you turn the electrolyzer on.

[Saturnus]

32 minutes ago, QuQuasar said:

Very odd. I had this design operating on full speed (though not super speed) for dozens of turns without causing any damage to the hydrogen generator. There were never any oxygen tiles in the upper chamber, only ever hydrogen.

The problem is, a 1x1 tile separator will always eventually fail and let a packet of oxygen through. It might take 50, 100,  or more cycles but it will happen eventually. A 2x1 tile separator won't fail.

Edit: I should mention that gases used to be more "viscous" so a one tile separator used to be enough but that changed with automation upgrade.

[Lutzkhie]

he built it on survival so there is already some oxygen on top which is probably the reason why his generator got wreacked

hmmm weird but why is your built version still on 254439?

[M29]

I love the SPOM  ! 

Thanks for the design !

 

I improved on the design by adding a Smart battery hooked to a NOT gate hooked to a Shut-off power so I could redirect extra power for other purpose while making sure the power was  never syphoned away from the SPOM entirely. 

(Smart battery: Standby at 75% / Active at 50% ; The NOT gate actually invert these values so power stop being sent outside the SPOM when it reaches 50% battery to ensure its self-sufficiency. )

I also upgraded the standard batteries with more smart batteries for reduced heat and energy loss very recently to maximize energy throughput. 

I did not use instulated tile in mine (too expensive at that time) but my understanding is that it does not have significant advantage over regular abyssalite tile since their heat transfer is so low already. 

I also forgot the tempshift plate from the initial design but did not experience any side effect from that "mistake". 

 

 

Long live to the SPOM ! 

Since I did not found my water geyser yet, I actually use the SPOM electricity generation of around 200V to power 2 Algae distillers so I can collect extra water which I send back to the purification process and have it used again by the Electroliser.

 

 

[suicide commando]

@M29

A little improvement can be made to your design, something I had trouble with..
gases go down and right when heavier, so you should put some airflow tiles on the bottom right 2 spots wher eyou now have walls, that way, you'll never have problems with O2 getting in the upper chamber by accident. when I tried using your setup, I had a problem with this, until I changed this as this is how my normal non-cooled setup works and it never gave me trouble with O2 where it shouldn't be.

 

[KittenIsAGeek]

On 2/18/2018 at 1:30 PM, Roboson said:

Do you have a blueprint for this handy? My current design uses 3 pumps and 4 electrolizers (while a blast to build, and seemingly efficient), is perhaps is a bit unbalanced. 

Here's some screenshots of my favorite layout so far.  I need to do a cooling pool redesign, but the general idea works.  The entire system is currently supporting 12 dupes, though several (maybe half?) have the diver's lungs trait.  It provides just a bit over 600Kg/cycle oxygen at 19c. 

First, here's the oxygen system itself:

Spoiler

This was built from the top down while excavating.  The backwall tiles are granite, and all the metal/airflow/mesh tiles are gold or gold amalgum. It doesn't really matter, those are just the materials I had on hand.

The system was a little tricky to prime. I had to manually start and stop the electrolyzers and toggle the lower fans so that the hydrogen would rise and fill up the top band.  The problem was the electrolyzer on the right.  Because of how gases flow, oxygen didn't want to settle into the lower right.  However, once it got settled, its been working flawless.

Sensors are fairly straightforward.  The atmo sensors for the electrolyzers are pretty much just for enabling/disabling the system.  Once things are running, they're set at "above zero."  All of the fan sensors are set to 'above 800g.'  I don't think the lower fans matter that much, as they're continually running.  However, the hydrogen fan has to be set so that the layer of hydrogen never disappears.  I've run it anywhere from 400g to 1200g, so its pretty flexible.

The two temperature sensors go to release valves for my coolant.  I have them set to "above 17c" and my oxygen output is a pretty steady 18c. By time it gets into the base, its usually around 19 to 20c, which is just about perfect.  

Plumbing and power are very straightforward.  

Spoiler

I didn't have abysallite available when I built the system. For optimum efficiency, the pipes should all by abyssalite.  

The coolant floods over the system and flows back into the coolant pool via gravity.  My first attempt filled in the open areas above the coolant feed and I had massive problems due to gas blocking fluid flows.  However, the sandwhiched mesh tiles at the bottom work just perfectly. IMPORTANT: manually flood the left side but keep the right side dry until after the mesh underneath is filled up with coolant. Otherwise gas will get in there and its extremely annoying to get it out.  This was learned by experience. Trust me, its a mess.

Also, all the insulated tiles should also be abyssalite as well. As you can see, my coolant tank has slowly started to leech heat from the surrounding area.  Not a big problem, but if left unchecked, it could begin to over-cool the system and my base will get too cold. This is only cycle 200, so I'll have to keep an eye on it.  Perhaps now that i have abysallite, I'll build a new coolant pool.

OK, finally, the gas piping system.  Its somewhat of a mess because I was experimenting while I built it and had to go back and re-design things later.

Spoiler

First, an overview of the entire system.  I used polluted water specifically so that the off-gas would feed pufts. It works OK, but I had to redo things several times. I learned that slime evaporates too quickly unless air pressure is close to 2000.  I also learned that PW doesn't off-gas when pressures are that high.  Anyway, on to the oxygen production system...

My coolant pool uses the Borg Cube method of cooling, but you can build it however you like. The important part is that the coolant flows back into the pool by gravity.  I found through experimenting that direct liquid contact with the overhead tiles cooled things much better than radiator pipes -- especially with the thermal transfer tiles and metal tiles.

The gas piping is a little confusing because I was experimenting as I went.  The important parts are the long feeds from each of the pumps.  This gives some flexibility to keep things from backing up.

 

The mess in the middle are mechanical filters taken from Lifegrow's post about mechanical gas filters.  Basically on the left side, oxygen is filtered out and sent to the reservoir.  Everything else (aka any hydrogen that gets into the system) is sent into the recirc of the right side through a valve set to 450g/s to keep from overloading the right side's filters.  On the right side, the oxygen pump (and the recirc) first hit an oxygen filter that sends it into the reservoir.  The flow then merges with the hydrogen pipes.  The hydrogen's line passes a hydrogen filter that fills a reservoir and the remainder returns to the recirc pipe behind the 450g/s valve.  

The reservoirs are something I built for the first time with the Ranching Upgrade.  They're a real life-saver, though I'm still working out a method for stopping the system when they are sufficiently full.  The important part of the reservoirs is that they allow the system to run continually.  This is a big factor while your base is still growing.  Once you get enough dupes to be sucking up 600Kg/cycle (or more!) of oxygen, then it doesn't matter.  However, if you don't put the oxygen somewhere, you'll stop producing and that stops your hydrogen production.

The two pumps in the oxygen room are feeding a line that goes to all my exosuit docks.  I have 9 of them right now, so my oxygen room is down to 36kg/square of oxygen -- and because my dupes are breathing about 600Kg/cycle of oxygen, it will probably stay around that density.  Any time my base is full, the excess goes into the room.  This means filling a new exosuit doesn't deprive my base of oxygen.  Anyway, the hydrogen room is currently sitting at 56kg/square, so I'm thinking about adding a second hydrogen generator.

OK, so, hope that helps.  The entire system, including the cooling pool, can run off a single hydrogen generator once the pool has been sufficiently cooled.  In fact, my entire base right now runs primarily off hydrogen power. 

On a related note.. doing the math.. this should support up to about 10 normal dupes.

[habuky]

On 30.3.2018 at 8:28 PM, KittenIsAGeek said:

The two pumps in the oxygen room ...

How many water do you have in the space before the vents?  I can't reproduce it with water, only with crude oil (>871kg)

[Oozinator]

3 minutes ago, habuky said:

How many water do you have in the space before the vents?  I can't reproduce it with water, only with crude oil (>871kg)

When  it's for overpressure then below 1800g per tile

[habuky]

9 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

When  it's for overpressure then below 1800g per tile

Hmmm,  when I drop 1700g water in the gap it disappears after 2-3 seconds and the overpressure is back.

Using 1001kg instead works fine on the second tile. But it might be difficult to build without debug mode. Spill water on the ground, mob it and drop it there. That's the way I guess?

 

 

[Oozinator]

4 minutes ago, habuky said:

Hmmm,  when I drop 1700g water in the gap it disappears after 2-3 seconds and the overpressure is back.

Using 1001kg instead works fine on the second tile. But it might be difficult to build without debug mode. Spill water on the ground, mob it and drop it there. That's the way I guess?

 

 

Try this

[KittenIsAGeek]

3 hours ago, habuky said:

How many water do you have in the space before the vents?  I can't reproduce it with water, only with crude oil (>871kg)

I couldn't do it with crude either -- it kept either flooding or disappearing from in front of the vent.  I'm sure there's a trick to it, but with the water vents, I filled up the space between 1-tile high squares until it spilled, then built the top two squares and mopped up the spill.