I Think New Characters Would Help DST

[TheKingofSquirrels]

 

4 hours ago, Raspberry Milk said:

Just buff / nerf everyone till they're all equal. That way everyone's happy! Plus, adding too many new characters kinda takes away from the entire "were trapped in this nightmarish world with a close band of friends" vibe.

Like the guy above you said, most of the characters are already perfect. The only people who need updates are Willow, Woody and Winona.

3 hours ago, Quoth143 said:

I'd first love it if Willow got some re-balancing first. Having her immunity to fire back would be nice. 

Not gonna happen. Move on.

7 hours ago, minespatch said:

We'll never know what Wilton is like until the devs release him.

You have to think about these things before you implement new ideas.

6 hours ago, Tylordian said:

If we don't want that loss of the learning curve with Wilton, why not make you able to change into him with a special item? Hear me out-

Let's say very later in the game, perhaps from FW, you get a small, mini version of the atrium heart, (It doesn't have to be that, it can be any item) and if you kill yourself with maybe some other special item or ritual, you can ressurect with that atrium heart as Wilton, he would become a late game character. You would lose any perks of your character before that however. Just an idea.

I love the idea of going back to characters you need to unlock in game, like how Webber was introduced.

And I've thought of stuff like this before. Perhaps if you haunt your skeleton with a special item you can turn into Wilton, or maybe you need other players. If someone goes to your skeleton and gives it a Ressurection Amulet, that's how you turn into him.

[Lumina]

8 hours ago, VexTheHex said:

 

 Why? Cause at least Wickerbottom feels like her own character that does feel like the "Mage" class of the game. Some of her books feel strong and useful, something only she can accomplish. (End is Nigh is useless though without WX. I like the skin for it. Would love the other... more useful books to get matching skins) The thing is, Wickerbottom and her books feel good. 

Yes, but the thing is, i would like, for example, to see more books for Wickerbottom. But in her current state, everything new will only make her even better.

So she is kind of trapped here because she is overpowered. You can't add new shiny things because they will only make the problem even bigger.

If she can have a rebalance, then it opens new possibilities for new books or new synergies. Also, the problem will be less important if other character also have new options.

[Starlogy]

5 minutes ago, Lumina said:

Yes, but the thing is, i would like, for example, to see more books for Wickerbottom. But in her current state, everything new will only make her even better.

So she is kind of trapped here because she is overpowered. You can't add new shiny things because they will only make the problem even bigger.

If she can have a rebalance, then it opens new possibilities for new books or new synergies. Also, the problem will be less important if other character also have new options.

here's a nerf for her: make her books have a smaller radius, and she's unable to use them at 0 sanity

[spideswine]

1 hour ago, Lumina said:

Yes, but the thing is, i would like, for example, to see more books for Wickerbottom. But in her current state, everything new will only make her even better.

So she is kind of trapped here because she is overpowered. You can't add new shiny things because they will only make the problem even bigger.

If she can have a rebalance, then it opens new possibilities for new books or new synergies. Also, the problem will be less important if other character also have new options.

The problem is, if you nerf wickerbottom until you bring her in line, then nerf her some more to allow room for new books, then add these new books, you're gonna end up nerfing her current abilities REALLY ******* HARD.

 

I'm also kinda fine with the way current wicker works, especially since wickers don't stack very well(kinda pointless to have two wickers). Not so sure I can say the same about wolfgang for example, combat is the major threat in dst, and he just makes it so much easier. Also I find wx's strengths overbearing and lame, and weaknesses to be just lame. Even though I think wicker is the strongest character, if I had to nerf anyone that would be wx, then wolfgang.

[Raspberry Shake]

4 hours ago, Starlogy said:

here's a nerf for her: make her books have a smaller radius, and she's unable to use them at 0 sanity

Or just make insanity worse!

On 12/3/2017 at 6:07 PM, SuperDavid said:

Mods are awesome & all, but these characters would be better if Klei implemented them into the game. If I remember correctly all these characters are already finished, so it wouldn't be hard to add them into DST.

Like even though these characters where planned characters for Don't Starve but got scrapped for unknown reasons they could still have a chance to comeback, I mean I thought Don't Starve was never going to get anything new yet Hamlet DLC is coming for it soon so I think anything's possible!

They're not gonna add the Pyro no matter how much you want it.It would break the games theme.

[Toroic]

3 hours ago, spideswine said:

The problem is, if you nerf wickerbottom until you bring her in line, then nerf her some more to allow room for new books, then add these new books, you're gonna end up nerfing her current abilities REALLY ******* HARD.

 

I'm also kinda fine with the way current wicker works, especially since wickers don't stack very well(kinda pointless to have two wickers). Not so sure I can say the same about wolfgang for example, combat is the major threat in dst, and he just makes it so much easier. Also I find wx's strengths overbearing and lame, and weaknesses to be just lame. Even though I think wicker is the strongest character, if I had to nerf anyone that would be wx, then wolfgang.

The main things I’d nerf about wicker are her damage (drop to 75%) and her health (down to 125).  She has strong indirect combat options so she can give up direct combat potential.

[. . .]

1 hour ago, Raspberry Milk said:

They're not gonna add the Pyro no matter how much you want it.It would break the games theme.

I already know & I don't want Pyro anyways I never played tf2 hahaha

[spideswine]

1 hour ago, Toros said:

The main things I’d nerf about wicker are her damage (drop to 75%) and her health (down to 125).  She has strong indirect combat options so she can give up direct combat potential.

In DS that could be a good idea...then again combat isn't as much of an issue there.

The problem in DST is that most of the benefits gained by a wicker are shared with her team, this will sorta make wicker into a chore, you want a wicker on your team, but nobody will actually want to be the wicker.

Maybe it's better to let other characters make/read weaker versions of her more prominent books?(horticulture and tentacles to be specific, or maybe just horticulture to not make wicker feel less unique)

[Lumina]

I don't dislike being Wicker, but i play mostly solo. I would probably dislike it if i had to use book to make berries grow for people doing nothing but waiting at camp

[spideswine]

2 minutes ago, Lumina said:

I don't dislike being Wicker, but i play mostly solo. I would probably dislike it if i had to use book to make berries grow for people doing nothing but waiting at camp

I'm not sure if you're replying to me, but I was speaking in regards to the suggested nerf in damage and hp.

[Lumina]

I'm not sure this will change a lot about the chore part. Depending of the playstyle, people could already rely on followers and other stuff for indirect fight when playing wicker. The chore is more about being forced to do things rather than not being able to do direct damage, to me.

[spideswine]

4 minutes ago, Lumina said:

I'm not sure this will change a lot about the chore part. Depending of the playstyle, people could already rely on followers and other stuff for indirect fight when playing wicker. The chore is more about being forced to do things rather than not being able to do direct damage, to me.

Yes, depending of the playstyle of the wicker it might not matter, it will however make it more likely to be the case.

Which is kinda the problem, for the people who don't want to fight things directly this won't change much, it will be notably worse for those that do like to fight things directly though, so I don't like this suggestion.

[Toroic]

1 hour ago, spideswine said:

In DS that could be a good idea...then again combat isn't as much of an issue there.

The problem in DST is that most of the benefits gained by a wicker are shared with her team, this will sorta make wicker into a chore, you want a wicker on your team, but nobody will actually want to be the wicker.

Maybe it's better to let other characters make/read weaker versions of her more prominent books?(horticulture and tentacles to be specific, or maybe just horticulture to not make wicker feel less unique)

My reasoning is that Wendy and Wes already have to deal with reduced damage, and there's no reason for an old lady to have above average raw stats.  But I also think every character should really be somwhere around Wigfrid/Wendy/Webber in strengths and weaknesses.

[spideswine]

6 minutes ago, Toros said:

My reasoning is that Wendy and Wes already have to deal with reduced damage, and there's no reason for an old lady to have above average raw stats.  But I also think every character should really be somwhere around Wigfrid/Wendy/Webber in strengths and weaknesses.

Wes is intended to be the "difficult" character, and wendy's playstyle is about her sister.

It would make sense if you would nerf wicker to the point where she was actually comparable to other characters(preferably the ones which aren't wolf and wx), but if you leave her really op and reduce her stats(which is what you've suggested) it'll likely just end in frustration.

(This is classic blizzard healers, the team needs one, but no body wants to do it)

[Toroic]

2 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Wes is intended to be the "difficult" character, and wendy's playstyle is about her sister.

It would make sense if you would nerf wicker to the point where she was actually comparable to other characters(preferably the ones which aren't wolf and wx), but if you leave her really op and reduce her stats(which is what you've suggested) it'll likely just end in frustration.

(This is classic blizzard healers, the team needs one, but no body wants to do it)

Well, my take on her in DST is that most of her books initially are quite powerful but then drop off later, or have a single niche use.

For example, birds and applied horticulture are mostly for food production, which by what I consider midgame (first spring) becomes totally irrelevant as a limitation.  The end is nigh is 99% of the time only used for stacking overcharge on Wx, which leaves STS (OP for pvp, but most people regenerate the plan flute with green gems) and On Tentacles, which I consider her "primary" book as she can make boss killing arenas.

I don't mind Wickerbottom being somewhat OP but in terms of utility and even as OP as she is now, it's not as blatant or annoying as Wx and Wolfgang being op.  I think the main difference is the skill indexing.  Skilled wickerbottoms are amazing, unskilled wickerbottoms are not.  Wx in the hands of a skilled player vs a non-skilled player are pretty much the same.  Wolfgang is somewhere in-between initially, but once food is abundant everyone is perma-mighty.

[spideswine]

14 minutes ago, Toros said:

Well, my take on her in DST is that most of her books initially are quite powerful but then drop off later, or have a single niche use.

For example, birds and applied horticulture are mostly for food production, which by what I consider midgame (first spring) becomes totally irrelevant as a limitation.  The end is nigh is 99% of the time only used for stacking overcharge on Wx, which leaves STS (OP for pvp, but most people regenerate the plan flute with green gems) and On Tentacles, which I consider her "primary" book as she can make boss killing arenas.

You're forgetting birds of the world+sts for probably the most efficient krampus farming in dst, and let's not forget horticulture+lureplants for the best twigs/grass farming, and with a reed trap, also papyrus(so you can just spam night armor).

So I'd actually say horticulture is up there too.

14 minutes ago, Toros said:

I don't mind Wickerbottom being somewhat OP but in terms of utility and even as OP as she is now, it's not as blatant or annoying as Wx and Wolfgang being op.  I think the main difference is the skill indexing.  Skilled wickerbottoms are amazing, unskilled wickerbottoms are not.  Wx in the hands of a skilled player vs a non-skilled player are pretty much the same.  Wolfgang is somewhere in-between initially, but once food is abundant everyone is perma-mighty.

I don't know, noob wxs just die and then rip gears.

I do mostly agree though, wickerbottom adds depth to the game, I'd argue wx and to a lesser extent wolfgang take away from it.(Hell I'd describe wx as a reverse wes on steroids)

[Toroic]

52 minutes ago, spideswine said:

You're forgetting birds of the world+sts for probably the most efficient krampus farming in dst, and let's not forget horticulture+lureplants for the best twigs/grass farming, and with a reed trap, also papyrus(so you can just spam night armor).

So I'd actually say horticulture is up there too.

I don't know, noob wxs just die and then rip gears.

I do mostly agree though, wickerbottom adds depth to the game, I'd argue wx and to a lesser extent wolfgang take away from it.(Hell I'd describe wx as a reverse wes on steroids)

I mean, I love the utility of horticulture, but I don't know how actually necessary it is.  But then I don't bother krampus farming because I prefer seasonal clothing/magilum to backpacks, and krampus sack is just a really nice backpack.

The only good thing I can say about Wolfgang's balance is that he does take some moderate skill to be brokenly OP in most games because new/bad players can't maintain mighty from day one.  Especially since I play a nerfed wolfgang, going on pubs as vanilla wolfgang feels like extra easy mode.

[Raspberry Shake]

11 hours ago, SuperDavid said:

I already know & I don't want Pyro anyways I never played tf2 hahaha

nor do I

[axxel]

I didn't read thw whole thread, but focusing on current characters are easier to manage for the developer imo. It can be a huge mess to put a new "balanced" character with unique perks in the game who may be not liked by the players.

In terms of rebalancing, I would suggest some "team" perks (if someone did already mentioned this, sorry!), passive perks which are applied to other characters or are active if others are near. Like: Wendy decrease the sanity drain of the others, Wes can "mimic" other character's perks, Wilson gives others more sanity while prototyping, Wolfgang gives a small damage bonus while full, Willow increase insulation against heat/fire etc.. 

So instead of new characters, building up some more abilities on the old ones could bring some fresh wind to the desired teamplay. It's also easier to Klei instead creating from the scratch.

 

[minespatch]

4 hours ago, axxel said:

Wes can "mimic" other character's perks

Does that include mocking them too?

[Donke60]

5 hours ago, axxel said:

Wes can "mimic" other character's perks

Werebeaver Wes

Barabian Wes

Inventer Wes

BodyBuilder Wes

Monster Tamer Wes

Green thumb Wes

Writer Wes

Cyborg Wes

Woodsmen Wes

Weatherman Wes

Songbird Wes

Spirit speaker Wes

Fire flinger Wes and finally 

taxidermy Wes or build a bear Wes

oh wait forgot one Sandman Wes

[minespatch]

Just now, Donke60 said:

 finger family Wes

[axxel]

13 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

Werebeaver Wes

Barabian Wes

Inventer Wes

BodyBuilder Wes

Monster Tamer Wes

Green thumb Wes

Writer Wes

Cyborg Wes

Woodsmen Wes

Weatherman Wes

Songbird Wes

Spirit speaker Wes

Fire flinger Wes and finally 

taxidermy Wes or build a bear Wes

oh wait forgot one Sandman Wes

Good ideas  There's more to find. My personal favourite is Deatheater Wes and I think the sheer number of new Wes would help DST and its quality  

Anyway, the idea of the Mime come from Final Fantasy, there the Mime job is actually useful since its ability derive from other job ability but has normally below average stats.

[Neu7ral]

I don't think we need new characters.

[Quoth143]

Y'know it'd probably make sense of Wagstaff was introduced next.