I Think New Characters Would Help DST

[Toroic]

12 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

A) Don't know how to make mods.

B) It's better if it's baseline of the game. That way it's not unstable and up in the air whether the mod will be usable in a month.

C) Also, it's true what people are saying. People are less likely to join your server if it has mods.

I know this, because I myself avoid servers that had mods enabled. I just don't wanna run into Sonic when I'm playing. 

D) even if the mod is great. The art style usually still always clashes with the rest of the game.

A) Obviously.

B) No mod becomes unusable in a month, in fact the only reason any mods get outdated is Klei has done long betas with a lot of code refactors.  You’re not even remotely making a realistic point for the current state of the codebase.

C) You can check which mods a server has installed before you join it.  That’s like saying you don’t go to movie theatres becsuse you don’t like films in other languages.

D) Badly made character mods, yes.  Many mods either don’t have art or the art doesn’t clash.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

3 minutes ago, Toros said:

D) Badly made character mods, yes.  Many mods either don’t have art or the art doesn’t clash.

Even if it's close, I've never seen any that don't obviously look like a mod. 

I'm being picky, but that's just me. 

[spideswine]

2 minutes ago, Toros said:

C) You can check which mods a server has installed before you join it.  That’s like saying you don’t go to movie theatres becsuse you don’t like films in other languages.

And get a list of 20, half of which you don't recognize, sure you can get lucky see extra equip slots and move on, but sometimes people use "additional equip slots" to just mess with you(well not really mess with you, but it still does mess with you).

Sure if it's maybe 5 known mods then it's doable, but can you really blame people who just see a list of mods and move on?

And due to the fact most mods are in fact small, you kinda need a large list to make a meaningful change to the game, hell you can even do a test, most of the modded servers with 5 mods or less are very close to vanilla.

point is: can't really blame people for seeing a large list of mods and skipping that world.

1 minute ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I'm being picky, but that's just me. 

You are, but so are most of the experienced players, so the point about mods turning people away remains.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

Just now, spideswine said:

And get a list of 20, half of which you don't recognize

Half of which are in another language.

[Toroic]

 

6 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Even if it's close, I've never seen any that don't obviously look like a mod. 

I'm being picky, but that's just me. 

Obviously then you haven’t looked very hard, because Womp is a popular character mod and is notable for the coding being high quality and the art being perfect.

5 minutes ago, spideswine said:

And get a list of 20, half of which you don't recognize, sure you can get lucky see extra equip slots and move on, but sometimes people use "additional equip slots" to just mess with you(well not really mess with you, but it still does mess with you).

Sure if it's maybe 5 known mods then it's doable, but can you really blame people who just see a list of mods and move on?

And due to the fact most mods are in fact small, you kinda need a large list to make a meaningful change to the game, hell you can even do a test, most of the modded servers with 5 mods or less are very close to vanilla.

point is: can't really blame people for seeing a large list of mods and skipping that world.

Huge mod lists are probably worth skipping, and I don’t blame anyone for that, but saying “I don’t want to see sonic” is reductive for no reason.  You could easily say “I don’t want to see furry oc with **** art or OP anime characters” which are far more likely than sonic.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

4 minutes ago, Toros said:

Obviously then you haven’t looked very hard, because Womp is a popular character mod and is notable for the coding being high quality and the art being perfect.

I know Womp. I've played him...Still felt like a mod.

But again, THAT'S JUST ME. Nobody is saying that mods are bad, but just that it is redundant to reply to a thread like this by saying "Just use a mod". It happens all the time.

[spideswine]

2 minutes ago, Toros said:

Huge mod lists are probably worth skipping, and I don’t blame anyone for that,

But as I've said, without them it's very hard to make the game meaningfully different, most don't make any large scale changes, you need a lot of small scale changes to achieve that.

4 minutes ago, Toros said:

but saying “I don’t want to see sonic” is reductive for no reason.  You could easily say “I don’t want to see furry oc with **** art or OP anime characters” which are far more likely than sonic.

I'm fairly sure that's what he meant by that, he just used sonic as an example for the sort of chars he doesn't want to see.

Just now, TheKingofSquirrels said:

but just that it is redundant to reply to a thread like this by saying "Just use a mod". It happens all the time.

Well it depends what you define as "a thread like this"

Sometimes people make complaints about dst in a solo environment, that often can be legitimately addressed with "just use mods".

Not the case here though.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

7 minutes ago, spideswine said:

I'm fairly sure that's what he meant by that, he just used sonic as an example for the sort of chars he doesn't want to see.

It was.

Also, guys, this is really off-topic.

[Toroic]

3 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I know Womp. I've played him...Still felt like a mod.

But again, THAT'S JUST ME. Nobody is saying that mods are bad, but just that it is redundant to reply to a thread like this by saying "Just use a mod". It happens all the time.

While art is somewhat subjective, Womp’s perfectly matches the art style in DST based on the lines and color used.  Your initial argument was that was the art was bad, now you’re saying it has to make you forget it’s a mod?  Those aren’t the same thing.

3 minutes ago, spideswine said:

But as I've said, without them it's very hard to make the game meaningfully different, most don't make any large scale changes, you need a lot of small scale changes to achieve that.

I'm fairly sure that's what he meant by that, he just used sonic as an example for the sort of chars he doesn't want to see.

Well it depends what you define as "a thread like this"

Sometimes people make complaints about dst in a solo environment, that often can be legitimately addressed with "just use mods".

Not the case here though.

I always thought it would’ve been a fun idea to have more “scenario” type maps like hunger games or man vs monster pvp maps (non-wolfgang/wicker characters vs webbers, for example)

[TheKingofSquirrels]

1 minute ago, Toros said:

While art is somewhat subjective, Womp’s perfectly matches the art style in DST based on the lines and color used.  

"While art is somewhat subjective" - Follows by saying that the art is objectively good.

:/

2 minutes ago, Toros said:

Your initial argument was that was the art was bad, now you’re saying it has to make you forget it’s a mod?  Those aren’t the same thing.

My problem with mods, is that the art style doesn't fit...Which would make it bad in my opinion. But, like I said before, that's just me.

 

8 minutes ago, Toros said:

I always thought it would’ve been a fun idea to have more “scenario” type maps like hunger games or man vs monster pvp maps (non-wolfgang/wicker characters vs webbers, for example)

I agree with this, but for some reason, Klei hates PVP.

[Toroic]

15 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

"While art is somewhat subjective" - Follows by saying that the art is objectively good.

:/

My problem with mods, is that the art style doesn't fit...Which would make it bad in my opinion. But, like I said before, that's just me.

 

 Nowhere did I use the word good, and the objective aspects of art are things  like line structure, proportion, color and we can definitely look at morphological features and compare them to things already found in the game.

 Doing an objective analysis we see his eyes are similar to Willow and Warly,  his head very much resembles a tentacle Spike and his skin resembles tentacles almost to the point of having the exact same texture.   Lines have the same thickness and contrast. Even his portrait perspective and proportions are very similar.

If you do not think his art style matches then I really question your ability to tell the difference.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

24 minutes ago, Toros said:

Doing an objective analysis we see his eyes are similar to Willow and Warly

Why because they are big and white? Is that your analysis? Did you learn that at Art School?

Sigh. Can't believe I'm doing this.

There's a big difference in the line drawing.

"I really question your ability to tell the difference."

Same here buddy, same here....

[FreyaMaluk]

2 hours ago, spideswine said:

This isn't about you, this is about mods turnning people away, hell even you admitted plenty of them turn you away, and people in this thread keep saying they turn them and their friends away too.

You just keep ignoring it for whatever reason, worst part is you know exactly what we're talking about.

it is about me when you say this 

2 hours ago, spideswine said:

Yeah have fun playing alone.

I play with my friends with some mods, no problem at all. In fact, we can play with some mods some time if you want.

However, in public servers, with random people, it is the case that modded worlds are probably less attractive to some people, but this depends on the mods you have on. If I see a public server with the "wormhole marks" mod, ergo QoL mods or some non broken character mods, I have no problem to go in and have a nice time.

I have tried many mods and I know which are good for me and which I consider unbalanced, non interesting, etc. The modders I mentioned before (Chessnuggets, default, neutral, for instance), keep their mods up-to-date and they care about game balance. That's why I recommend them. Even Klei recommended the Globalastick's Halloween mod.

Most "purist" don't even know which mods are good or not, cuz they don't even bother, but they do bash them all without having even tried them. 

And please, stop assuming I share your opinion and secretly don't wanna admit it cuz this is not true.

Back to OP, I do prefer that the devs adjust already existant characters in DST, instead of creating new rushed ones for the sake of having something new.

[Toroic]

1 hour ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Why because they are big and white? Is that your analysis? Did you learn that at Art School?

Sigh. Can't believe I'm doing this.

There's a big difference in the line drawing.

"I really question your ability to tell the difference."

Same here buddy, same here....

This is a well-constructed argument, and you supported you position with screenshots.

However, let's look at Warly's eyes.

You see a more consistently round, thick line used to show his eyes, with an additional line added to show some socket depth willow doesn't have.

In contrast, Womp's eyes are much more like Willow's (especially accounting for the thick part of the outline on hers representing lashes) than Wilbur's.

Also, consider that don't starve has two completely different eye styles.

The "all white iris" is used concurrently with

 

So to be clear, are you telling me that Wilson, Willow, Warly, and Wilbur's eyes are part of the same art style, but Womp's are not?  I see at least as much variation between the vanilla characters as between them and Womp.

1 minute ago, FreyaMaluk said:

it is about me when you say this 

I play with my friends with some mods, no problem at all.

However, in public servers, with random people, it is the case that modded worlds are probably less attractive to some people, but this depends on the mods you have on. If I see a public server with the "wormhole marks" mod, ergo QoL mods or some non broken character mods, I have no problem to go in and have a nice time.

I have tried many mods and I know which are good for me and which I consider unbalanced, non interesting, etc. The modders I mentioned before (Chessnuggets, default, neutral, for instance), keep their mods up-to-date and they care about game balance. That's why I recommend them. Even Klei recommended the Globalastick's Halloween mod.

Most "purist" don't even know which mods are good or not, cuz they don't even bother, but they do bash them all without having even tried them. 

And please, stop assuming I share your opinion and secretly don't wanna admit it cuz this is not true.

Back to OP, I do prefer that the devs adjust already existant characters in DST, instead of creating new rushed ones for the sake of having something new.

I tend to agree, particularly in the case of Willow where I feel her changes were unwarranted for DST.  One of my criticisms of SW's balance is that the stronger characters became stronger, and the weaker characters became weaker.  Wilson's beard for example has a lot less use when crabs provide beard hair and there's no cold season equivalent to winter.  The difficulty in getting gold made Wicker's tech access much more valuable (and she pretty much always rushes quacken as a result).

In DST things are better than in SW but when I play someone like Wolfgang after playing someone like Woodie it's massive how much easier the game is and more powerful Wolfgang is.

[Lumina]

2 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

B) It's better if it's baseline of the game. That way it's not unstable and up in the air whether the mod will be usable in a month.

Please, stop with this myth. One of the last time an update made mods useless was a change with worldgen with an entire topic to explain the changes and help for Klei when mods stopped working. And it was in April 2016. Maybe other stuff happened here and here, but in a scale very minor.

You don't know how to mod, don't have artistic skill and/or don't want to mod ? Fine.

But mods can stay a long time without any problems usually, and it would be very unlucky for a mod to stop working after a month.

 

So it's not a reason to not mod. Thanks.

[spideswine]

6 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

it is about me when you say this 

Sure, if you disregard everything said before.

We've already established that you play with friends, and that people don't want to join modded servers, I was reiterating the last point, for most people(noobs aside) using the kinds of mods that you suggest means playing alone.

9 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

However, in public servers, with random people, it is the case that modded worlds are probably less attractive to some people, but this depends on the mods you have on. If I see a public server with the "wormhole marks" mod, ergo QoL mods or some non broken character mods, I have no problem to go in and have a nice time.

What happens if that character is a furry? Or a weaboo char? Or a character from a different game(like sonic, though I suppose that sorta fall under the previous category)? Or a super hero char? Or a character you don't recognize?

Hell, is musha really overpowered compared to wicker, wolf or wx?(I'm seriously asking a question, I'm not exactly sure what musha does and wolf and even more so wicker set the bar fairly high)

12 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I have tried many mods and I know which are good for me and which I consider unbalanced, non interesting, etc. The modders I mentioned before (Chessnuggets, default, neutral, for instance), keep their mods up-to-date and they care about game balance. That's why I recommend them. Even Klei recommended the Globalastick's Halloween mod.

I don't like the way he messed up beefalos mouths, it ticks me off.

13 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Most "purist" don't even know which mods are good or not

Very true.

13 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

cuz they don't even bother

Because it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

13 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

but they do bash them all without having even tried them. 

Have you tried the weaboo/furry chars?

Yet you don't seem to mind when I bash them, even though I haven't really tried them.

I mean we can argue about how valid being purist is, but there's no sense in arguing that most of the experienced playerbase is purist, meaning that if you use those mods, you're gonna play alone.(not you specifically, but I think you get the idea by now)

16 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

And please, stop assuming I share your opinion and secretly don't wanna admit it cuz this is not true.

I never said you secretly don't want to admit it, you admit it and deny it at the same time.

My main point is that the experienced players tend heavily towards the purist side of things, and you've never denied that and often implied strongly that you agree with that, and then you just go on giving advice(use char mods) ignoring what we are both aware of.

[Residays]

Before we get a new character, we should get direct contact with the developers to give feedback so a semi-useless character like Winona doesn't happen again.

[spideswine]

2 minutes ago, Residays said:

Before we get a new character, we should get direct contact with the developers to give feedback so a semi-useless character like Winona doesn't happen again.

I'm going to guess that they were fully aware her design was ****, and didn't need feedback to confirm that.

[FreyaMaluk]

46 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Sure, if you disregard everything said before.

We've already established that you play with friends, and that people don't want to join modded servers, I was reiterating the last point, for most people(noobs aside) using the kinds of mods that you suggest means playing alone.

What happens if that character is a furry? Or a weaboo char? Or a character from a different game(like sonic, though I suppose that sorta fall under the previous category)? Or a super hero char? Or a character you don't recognize?

Hell, is musha really overpowered compared to wicker, wolf or wx?(I'm seriously asking a question, I'm not exactly sure what musha does and wolf and even more so wicker set the bar fairly high)

I don't like the way he messed up beefalos mouths, it ticks me off.

Very true.

Because it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Have you tried the weaboo/furry chars?

Yet you don't seem to mind when I bash them, even though I haven't really tried them.

I mean we can argue about how valid being purist is, but there's no sense in arguing that most of the experienced playerbase is purist, meaning that if you use those mods, you're gonna play alone.(not you specifically, but I think you get the idea by now)

I never said you secretly don't want to admit it, you admit it and deny it at the same time.

My main point is that the experienced players tend heavily towards the purist side of things, and you've never denied that and often implied strongly that you agree with that, and then you just go on giving advice(use char mods) ignoring what we are both aware of.

I've said I had tried A LOT of mods. Idc if you trash bad quality mods, cuz they are not worth to me. I've said before I don't like anime mods. I've said before I don't like OP mods. what's not to understand here.

And I don't play alone. I have friends to play with. With and without mods. No problem at all. Also experienced players like me. I have more than 1000 hours in the game. 

I don't ignore things, you just assume all experienced players think like you. I'm experienced and I think differently. That's the issue here. It's like you are denying other people's opinions.

And I do think it might be more interesting a thoughtful character rebalance for the people who are playing the game rn. And not just creating characters for players that have move on from DST anyways

[spideswine]

19 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I've said I had tried A LOT of mods. Idc if you trash bad quality mods, cuz they are not worth to me. I've said before I don't like anime mods. I've said before I don't like OP mods. what's not to understand here.

And how do you know the anime/op mods are trash? Hell, how do you even know an op mod is op?

I've asked you why musha is op, you haven't answered that. I'm guessing you, like me, haven't actually tried it, yet you bash others for not trying mods.

19 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

And I don't play alone. I have friends to play with. With and without mods. No problem at all. Also experienced players like me. I have more than 1000 hours in the game. 

I never said "experienced players who don't mind mods don't exist", In fact I have been very pedantic on stating it's the vast majority, not all, and you're aware of that.

Hell I'm not even sure you're not a purist, as you still have avoided my question on why musha is op, and seem to be pretty damn picky about your mods as well, you just found a group of people that don't mind the same mods you don't mind, which is very hard to do.

Because again, the majority of the experienced players are purist, and you once again give advice to the contrary of that, even though you know it to be true.

Hell let me make it easier for you, if you want to keep pushing that nonsense, I want you to explicitly state the upcoming fallacy:

"I don't think that the vast majority of the experienced playerbase is purist".

Maybe then we will at least have something to disagree over.

[Rellimarual]

Most of the DST streamers I watch are using mods now. I think the prejudice against them is waning. 

[. . .]

Klei should add all these characters into the game, except the last one.

http://dontstarve.wikia.com/wiki/Unimplemented_Characters

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, SuperDavid said:

Klei should add all these characters into the game, except the last one.

http://dontstarve.wikia.com/wiki/Unimplemented_Characters

Wilton

Wilton's portrait.

Wortox

Wortox' portrait.

Winnie

Winnie's portrait.

Wallace

Wallace's portrait.

Waverly

Waverly's portrait.

Pyro

Pyro's portrait

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=468856987

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=469134741

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=463554075

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=453114504

[minespatch]

I still think Shopkeeper can still be put into the main game.

[FreyaMaluk]

Just now, minespatch said:

I still think Shopkeeper can still be put into the main game.

Up and Away was a pretty cool mod.. I hope they can port it and mantain it for DST. That can be really fun