Wolfgang is better than Wigfrid. (probably)

[Endedbox45]

Wolfgang is better than Wigfrid. (probably)

Hi! I'm pretty new here to the forums so sorry if this has been already discussed too many times.

Personally, I think that Wolfgang is better than Wigfrid. Wolfgang does more damage than and he works will with Wickerbottom as she can grow food easily. So hunger is not a problem.

Wolfgang does 0.5x to 2x when he is in his "I AM MIGHTY" form.

 

Wigfrid has a damage modifier and takes less damage.

However, she has low sanity and hunger. She can only eat meat which restricts her from eating things like butterfly wings. Therefor, Wickerbottom can not generate food for her.

She also gets health and sanity from fighting foes but it's very little, She can craft helmets which is good during midgame. However I still think that Wigfrid is a fun character to play and she might even be good for people who are starting the game

 

What do you think is better? Please tell me below!

"Valhalla awaits!" 

[landromat]

wolfgang is op as hell and need nerfs. Everybody knows that. But wigfrid feels hersefs better in long fights, because regen, so she don't need any heal

[fimmatek]

9 minutes ago, Endedbox45 said:

Hi! I'm pretty new here to the forums so sorry if this has been already discussed too many times.

Hi, welcome to the forums! Yes, it has been discussed a few times...

Which character is better, depends on the situation and the playstyle. Wolfgang can do more damage and eat more healing/sanitygiving foods. Wigfrid can easily get her health and sanity back by fighting and can craft tons of helms for a whole group, pretty useful on public servers. So I think there is no better character, just better for a given goal and situation.

[Donke60]

Why?

[. . .]

wes is bes

[minespatch]

I'll forgive you op since you're new and this is your opinion.

[JohnWatson]

just when i thought it was over

[KoreanWaffles]

2 hours ago, Endedbox45 said:

sorry if this has been already discussed too many times

If only you knew...

If only you could see what had happened...

Oh wait you can

sorryimnotsorry

 

[Starlogy]

inb4 forge comes out and wigfrid ends up being better than wolfgang

In all seriousness though, the two have been compared ever since Wigfrid was released with RoG. Like everyone else has been saying, it all depends on your playstyle. If you don't want a fluctuating style at all and want to keep things narrow and simple, go with Wigfrid. If you wanna be all over the place and eat everyone's food, go with Wolfgang.

Personally, I like Wigfrid more, just cause she feels more challenging to keep up with in the long run than Wolfgang does. Plus spelunking with her is a lot more interesting.

Spoiler

and i have a weird thing for red heads idk why

 

[Mr Pig]

Welcome to the forums! I hope you enjoy your time here!

...yes this has been discussed more times than I can count, and I haven't even been round these parts all that long... Honestly every balance discussion or which character of these 2 is better threads it's been discussed into oblivion for the first half a page and then turns into a flame war until the thread moves off the first page of the forums.

On the more serious note while I prefer Wigfrid for the utility of her helmets and to a lesser extent her spears. (I generally love utility based characters in games) I haven't played each character much (I don't think I've even tried Wolfgang because I play Woodie too much for my own good) But it really comes down to opinion and preferences. Wolfgang is a considerable advantage if you talk stats but by that point you could say WX is better than both. However that's only if you upgrade him a ton. Which just shows that situation means everything in these discussions so there isn't really a true answer to these questions. That's my take anyway.

[LuxuryHeart]

9 hours ago, fimmatek said:

Hi, welcome to the forums! Yes, it has been discussed a few times...

 

7 hours ago, minespatch said:

I'll forgive you op since you're new and this is your opinion.

 

7 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

just when i thought it was over

 

7 hours ago, KoreanWaffles said:

If only you knew...

If only you could see what had happened...

Oh wait you can

sorryimnotsorry

 

 

7 hours ago, StarmanNess said:

In all seriousness though, the two have been compared ever since Wigfrid was released with RoG.

  Reveal hidden contents

and i have a weird thing for red heads idk why

 

 

6 hours ago, Mr Pig said:

...yes this has been discussed more times than I can count, and I haven't even been round these parts all that long... Honestly every balance discussion or which character of these 2 is better threads it's been discussed into oblivion for the first half a page and then turns into a flame war until the thread moves off the first page of the forums.

I'm glad everyone agrees finally!  This is a dead horse that's been beaten for a long time.  I do forgive the OP though since they're new here and probably don't realize the extent to which this is discussed and dissected.  

[DVGMedia]

i find this rather funny when people compare cause before wigfrid even came out and before strange new powers wolfgang was basically the same as wigfrid  just without battle regen and with the full diet

[Starlogy]

6 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

i find this rather funny when people compare cause before wigfrid even came out and before strange new powers wolfgang was basically the same as wigfrid  just without battle regen and with the full diet

Wolfgang wasn't as fleshed out as Wigfrid was before Strange New Powers. All he had going for him was 1.5x damage and that was it. No defense, no armor, no vampirism, and no meat based diet.

[minespatch]

30 minutes ago, StarmanNess said:

no vampirism,

Wait, what?

[fimmatek]

6 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Wait, what?

I guess they meant the health and sanity leaching.

[landromat]

9 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Wait, what?

wigfrid gets health and sanity in fights

[Starlogy]

4 hours ago, minespatch said:

Wait, what?

What @fimmatek and @landromat said, that's just what people call her ability to steal health and sanity from enemies. It's a lot easier to call it that, and frankly just makes her sound cooler.

[Toros]

5 hours ago, fimmatek said:

Hi, welcome to the forums! Yes, it has been discussed a few times...

Which character is better, depends on the situation and the playstyle. Wolfgang can do more damage and eat more healing/sanitygiving foods. Wigfrid can easily get her health and sanity back by fighting and can craft tons of helms for a whole group, pretty useful on public servers. So I think there is no better character, just better for a given goal and situation.

This right here is why although we've discussed Wolfgang vs Wigfrid on these forums so many times... clearly it's not enough because some of you just don't get it.

I'm not sure if it's blind optimism or a lack of understanding of how the game works but there is absolutely not "no better character, just better for a given goal and situation."  Some characters are just universally better because their upsides are useful in ways that matter and their downsides are minimal to ignorable.

Speed is always valuable and combat is necessary.  The alternative to fighting directly is investing huge amounts of resources into gunpowder and/or bunny hutches so they can fight for you.

Both Wolfgang and Wigfrid fill the same role, a combat focused character, and both have a dietary downside.  Wolfgang needs more food, and Wigfrid can only eat meat-type food.  The issue is that he's far, far better at combat (2.0x damage vs 1.25x damage, 1.25x speed vs 1x speed) and his dietary problems are countered by a belt of hunger, or when you reach the point in the game where you have tons and tons of food (First spring, generally).

The only time Wigfrid can be competitive with Wolfgang is when you're bad at the game on a fresh server and you can't manage Wolfgang's hunger needs.  Both lack of skill and a fresh world are required, one alone is not enough.

None of the top three characters (Wx, Wolfgang, Wickerbottom) have any situations where another character outshines them who is not in the top three, assuming the player is somewhat good at the game.

[minespatch]

36 minutes ago, Toros said:

I'm not sure if it's blind optimism or a lack of understanding of how the game works but there is absolutely not "no better character, just better for a given goal and situation."  Some characters are just universally better because their upsides are useful in ways that matter and their downsides are minimal to ignorable.

To me, the characters are cosmetic and have good abilities but maybe I see the game in a communistic view. All the characters have worth and there doesn't seem to need a competition. If people like Wolfgang and Wigfrid, good for them.

I just don't see this as a combat game unless people do pvp.

[Starlogy]

1 hour ago, Toros said:

This right here is why although we've discussed Wolfgang vs Wigfrid on these forums so many times... clearly it's not enough because some of you just don't get it.

I'm not sure if it's blind optimism or a lack of understanding of how the game works but there is absolutely not "no better character, just better for a given goal and situation."  Some characters are just universally better because their upsides are useful in ways that matter and their downsides are minimal to ignorable.

Speed is always valuable and combat is necessary.  The alternative to fighting directly is investing huge amounts of resources into gunpowder and/or bunny hutches so they can fight for you.

Both Wolfgang and Wigfrid fill the same role, a combat focused character, and both have a dietary downside.  Wolfgang needs more food, and Wigfrid can only eat meat-type food.  The issue is that he's far, far better at combat (2.0x damage vs 1.25x damage, 1.25x speed vs 1x speed) and his dietary problems are countered by a belt of hunger, or when you reach the point in the game where you have tons and tons of food (First spring, generally).

The only time Wigfrid can be competitive with Wolfgang is when you're bad at the game on a fresh server and you can't manage Wolfgang's hunger needs.  Both lack of skill and a fresh world are required, one alone is not enough.

None of the top three characters (Wx, Wolfgang, Wickerbottom) have any situations where another character outshines them who is not in the top three, assuming the player is somewhat good at the game.

I think many of us realize that Wolfgang's damage potential is never going to be topped by Wigfrid. However, let's take practical examples with Wolfgang vs. Wigfrid:

Are you seriously going to waste Dark Swords and food on spiders? No, cause you could be using them for giants instead. More than likely, you're going to be using a spear or a tentacle spike (which, by the way, Wigfrid supplies a better spear). Same logic applies for every other mob that's not a giant.

And sure, Wolfgang gets extra speed in combat, but guess what? Everyone can get it! It's called a walking cane with luminescence!

[JimmyJam]

I don't like Wolfgang... There i said it!

[Starlogy]

7 hours ago, Toros said:

Do our practical examples assume that we're playing an alternate version of don't starve where people get shadow manipulators before alchemy engines, or that hambats don't exist?

Because a hambat is the ideal farming weapon given it has unlimited uses for the ten days until it spoils and for several days is superior to wigfrid's battle spear in damage.  It also outdamages tentacle spikes for roughly a day and outdamages a normal spear for 90% of the time it lasts.

Your point about everyone getting extra speed in combat... I literally don't understand why you thought that was a valid point.  Speed continues to stack; a Wolfgang with a cane and a magi is still faster. That doesn't change the comparison at all.  It would, if Wolfgang was somehow limited and unable to also use those options.  However, he's not so it is essentially the same comparison with additional noise introduced.

Also, skilled wolfgang players stay mighty for the speed boost the majority of the time.  This becomes all of the time when they can get enough bee boxes and other passive food sources built.  So there's no "wasting" food to deal extra damage, the extra damage is just a side effect of abundant food and staying full for speed.

Reason why I didn't bring up Hambats is because people love to argue for Wolfgang "he can 1hit spiders with a Dark Sword". He's no more effective with a Hambat than any other character when killing spiders.

And if we're still talking speed here, I'm curious as to how you don't think WX-78 is better than him, due to him being faster than Wolfgang.

[Rellimarual]

47 minutes ago, minespatch said:

If this response feels a little rude and patronizing, I've prepared an alternate that you may imagine in the voice of a kindergarten teacher speaking to their class but conveys the same message.  I hope you find it more cheerful.

It’s fascinating that you believe the way you rephrased that was less “rude and patronizing.”

[Toros]

5 hours ago, StarmanNess said:

Reason why I didn't bring up Hambats is because people love to argue for Wolfgang "he can 1hit spiders with a Dark Sword". He's no more effective with a Hambat than any other character when killing spiders.

And if we're still talking speed here, I'm curious as to how you don't think WX-78 is better than him, due to him being faster than Wolfgang.

Spiders have 100 health and thus Wolfgang with a fresh hambat while full mighty will still 1hit them until a combination of his mightiness and the bat's freshness drop sufficiently.  I'm not sure why you're focusing on spiders specifically, a hambat is a superior farming weapon for all characters due to the relative cheapness to craft (major materials can be gotten from giving a pig four monster meat), high damage, and large durability.  It is also always crafted at full freshness even if the meat used in the construction are near spoiling.

This is tangential to the discussion on Wolfgang vs Wigfrid, I only pointed it out because the existence of a hambat largely nullifies your point about not using dark swords for killing spiders.  If a team has a woodie who is spawning many treeguards and/or a maxwell farming nightmare fuel the time and effort for farming with dark swords may not be a wasteful use of resources.  Again, there are many more things to fight and the majority of them die in fewer hits from Wolfgang.  He performs far better at killing hound waves after his allies due to the speed and damage compared to Wigfrid, and also has better performance fighting all of the boss monsters than Wigfrid does due to being able to get more hits in during each window, and doing more damage per hit.

5 hours ago, minespatch said:

After a talk with my father, I was wrong. I have no idea about communism. You make a lot of valid points and I was out of my place for commenting in a thread I have a lack of experience in.

Your opinion is valid, and one that I agree with.  It just isn't related to the original post's argument.  I don't understand or support people being upset or shaming others for their character choice because in don't starve, unlike many other games, every character can do everything.  There's a stronger argument for trying to pick optimal characters and classes in group pvp games and mmos because playing a weaker option means someone else has to pick up the slack.  That said, a game should balance enjoyment from winning with freedom of choice.  Limited viable options is poor design.

I wouldn't want you to take away from this that your opinion isn't wanted or valid, or that you shouldn't share it.  Instead, I'd hope you could gain new perspective on separating objective and subjective aspects of a discussion.  In my experience they are generally best handled separately with fact-driven analysis for objective topics while subjective topics tend to involve philosophy or psychology.  That's much messier and often you can reach an impasse and agree to disagree.

I'm not well-versed in the theories behind communism, but I imagine a collectivist perspective on character value would more highly value their ability to contribute to the group's welfare over individual power.  There's an interesting discussion to be had on why Wickerbottom is considered to be in the same tier as both Wolfgang and Wx who have vastly superior stats, but it's probably left to another thread or a private message.

I'd also like to apologize for excessively snarky and rude tone, I was in a poor mood last night when I wrote my response and while much of the content is still what I want to express it was not said in a respectful manner.  I'm not generally pleased with the level of effort or quality many people put into a discussion on these forums, but I consider you to be a valuable member of the don't starve community, so again I am sorry.

5 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

It’s fascinating that you believe the way you rephrased that was less “rude and patronizing.”

I don't, and I never claimed it was.  It is simply more cheerful and had I written the most this afternoon instead of at 1am last night I likely would've not included it at all.  While there is generally an implication that an alternative to a rude response will be less rude, I intentionally left a loophole so if I was called out on it I could fairly claim that I never said the rephrasing was at all less rude.

[Mr. Despair]

On 6/10/2017 at 6:27 PM, fimmatek said:

Wigfrid can easily get her health and sanity back by fighting and can craft tons of helms for a whole group, pretty useful on public servers.

You don't need health leaching when the DS/T mobs/boss are so easy to kill and healing as wimpy > Wigfrid's vampirism, Wolfgang is great because playing as him means less time pressing F and exploring.  Klei thinks that giving more health to the bosses is gonna make them harder but just makes combat more tedious and it's the reason of why i didn't play as Webber/Woddie/Wathever-character-i-think-is-funny in DST and i decided to switch to SW.

On 7/10/2017 at 7:58 PM, StarmanNess said:

And sure, Wolfgang gets extra speed in combat, but guess what? Everyone can get it! It's called a walking cane with luminescence!

Not only in combat, In DST there is food everywhere and you can be mighty 24/7, which means wasting less time. Mighty Wolfgang + Cane > Any other pleb with a cane.

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And if we're still talking speed here, I'm curious as to how you don't think WX-78 is better than him, due to him being faster than Wolfgang.

With Wolfgang you can be mighty all the time,  Overload is really fun and blah blah but in Together you can only be in that mode during Spring and some moments of autumn.