[Game Update] - 599141

[GLERMZ]

7 hours ago, V2C said:

Hey guys, seems to be some confusion, but to clarify, we do intend to fix these bugs and exploits eventually.  For the older bosses, they were not a focus of this update.  When we have time, we want to address some of the issues with the old fights such as Fuelweaver before we unexpectedly remove some players' means of progressing past them.

I fully understand the need to fix bugs and exploits from a dev point, specially when it comes to boss fights where you not even allowing the boss to use his mechanics, but please try your best to not ruin some of the best fights this game has, specially the best one, Fuelweaver. If the option is tweaking Fuelweaver and fix the exploits, i would rather have the exploits for people who need them than having the fight change for the worse.

The rest of the update continues to be a banger. Sad that we will have to wait for the new hail mechanics but i know its for the best!!

Edited March 20 by GLERMZ

[landromat]

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

The devs are welcome to ruin their game if they want.  The more my plays, and streams of DST look like the same footage on loop the less I'm inclined to bother with it.  Its as simple as that.

This is why "difficulty" is such an important thing to understand.  If difficulty really equates to less viable options then it also equates to the game losing value to players.  If there is only 1 way to play a game then it will only be played once and only by the few players who like that specific way of playing.

ask for more ways to play then, not to keep exploits

[Dragonboooorn]

players of so called uncompromising survival game when they cant cheese bosses with bugs anymore

[cropo]

7 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

players of so called uncompromising survival game when they cant cheese bosses with bugs anymore

It's like we're not a hivemind with the same opinions on things.

 

Players when a harmless mechanic that has to purposefully be enacted by the player and doesn't affect them is possible to do in the game.

[Faintly Macabre]

33 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

The point of furnace is to delete unwanted items, why are we unable to delete eternal fruitcake?

Because it's funny. I think the devs should be allowed to have fun now and then.

[qwp18]

8 hours ago, V2C said:

Just to answer a few questions:

New features related to Lunar Hail will come in a future update, NOT part of this update (Scrappy Scavengers) beta or live release.

Upgrading Scaled Chests are still coming to this update.

We'll make crafting work with ingredients in containers opened from your inventory.

We are likely going to change the Lureplant fix to only affect the newer content.  We decided to fix this now because of how it affected the Scrappy Werepig before he could even reach the Junk Pile to pick up his first weapon.

Love you klei, thank you for so much transparency and communication with the community compared to thousands of other games <3

[grm9]

9 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

players of so called uncompromising survival game when they cant cheese bosses with bugs anymore

true, they shouldn't be allowed to have fun the way they want, the less people playing the game the better ig, especially if it becomes impossible for them to have fun the way they previously did after they bought the game

[Cruvimaster]

25 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Scrappy werepig being stuck on lureplant would be a good thing because it would add another option to fight the boss but I understand why it is removed as all bosses post rift don't have that interaction.

The issue I have is that game will be more boring when more content like that is added, how is it not a contradiction to sandbox genre if there is only one intended linear way to kill a boss? What If all bosses get every different method of fighting them "fixed" and you are left with one?

 

 

The biggest difficulty in analyzing an "exploit" is the fact that to some extent it was implemented natively in the game.

Maxwell exists and he blocks Klaus, Dragonfly, Ancient Fuelweaver and everything in the game. What was exploid became a native mechanic.

Of course, there is an active combat stance on the part of the player and it consumes some resources, but it would be the equivalent of using walls, signs and lureplants.

So what would be valid or invalid in the game? I just don't know.

What I know is that any debate about exploits loses relevance, as there is the express approval of the developers.

One day they will change, but that day may be 10 years from now.

[grm9]

47 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

It is at least shameful for a developer to openly accept that there are serious flaws in the programming

it's obvious that they simply don't want to remove it because it isn't harmful because it can be removed by adding local function kill(inst) inst.components.health:Kill() end outside the prefab function and inst:AddComponent("workable"); inst.components.workable:SetAction(nil); inst.components.workable:SetOnFinishCallback(kill); inst:AddTag("NPC_workable") in prefab function which isn't hard and is similar to what they did with campfires

Edited March 20 by grm9

[00petar00]

21 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Because it's funny. I think the devs should be allowed to have fun now and then.

Making a game worse for fun? I won't ever see this as a good thing. We finally got a replacement for lureplant item deletion and in the same update its not able to delete all items.

10 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

The biggest difficulty in analyzing an "exploit" is the fact that to some extent it was implemented natively in the game.

Maxwell exists and he blocks Klaus, Dragonfly, Ancient Fuelweaver and everything in the game. What was exploid became a native mechanic.

Of course, there is an active combat stance on the part of the player and it consumes some resources, but it would be the equivalent of using walls, signs and lureplants.

So what would be valid or invalid in the game? I just don't know.

A big selling point for DST is sandbox.

Sandbox game definition: A sandbox game is a video game with a gameplay element that provides players a great degree of creativity. to interact with, usually without any predetermined goal, or alternatively with a goal that the players set for themselves. Such games may lack any objective.

If we have only one way to kill a boss and everything else is "fixed" that part of the game isn't sandbox anymore.

Edited March 20 by 00petar00

[allmeitysk]

8 hours ago, Evelo said:

Unfortunate to read this. But I guess this indeed is meant to be an "intended" solution for defeating some bosses. Such a shame.

Its not intended, its a strategy you can or you dont use. Why care, who uses it? If you dont, im happy for you, enjoy your  game, but why it bothers anyone - that I use lureplant to cheese farming moon rock? 

8 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Making a game worse for fun? I won't ever see this as a good thing. We finally got a replacement for lureplant item deletion and in the same update its not able to delete all items.

A big selling point for DST is sandbox.

Sandbox game definition: A sandbox game is a video game with a gameplay element that provides players a great degree of creativity. to interact with, usually without any predetermined goal, or alternatively with a goal that the players set for themselves. Such games may lack any objective.

If we have only one way to kill a boss and everything else is "fixed" that part of the game isn't sandbox anymore.

wow. You just single handladly killed all arguments. This is great explanation of not everything should have one way to be dealt with. LOVE IT

[Cruvimaster]

13 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Making a game worse for fun? I won't ever see this as a good thing. We finally got a replacement for lureplant item deletion and in the same update its not able to delete all items.

A big selling point for DST is sandbox.

Sandbox game definition:  A sandbox game is a video game with a gameplay element that provides players a great degree of creativity. to interact with, usually without any predetermined goal, or alternatively with a goal that the players set for themselves. Such games may lack any objective.

If we have only one way to kill a boss and everything else is "fixed" that part of the game isn't sandbox anymore.

You are bringing a concept to justify that failures in development (exploit) are normal. Dude, this argument doesn't make sense.

Yes, there are several ways to combat AF ("sandbox"):
1. With or without weather pain; 2. with or without sanity (Willow?); 3. With or without Brightshade Staff; 4. With or without gunpowder; 5. You can use Maxwell (prison), Wolfgang (double damage), Wigfrid with your new weapon, etc.

Edited March 20 by Cruvimaster

[Faintly Macabre]

9 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Making a game worse for fun?

The negative impact of this change is so small as to be almost non-existent. Just feed it to a pig.

You do know about fruitcake's reputation, right? It's a joke...

[Reecitz]

The question Klei must ask themselves is this: what game do they want Don't Starve Together to be? Do they still want it to have the sandbox genre? Do they still care about it being associated with the buzzword that is "uncompromising"? Whatever their answers are, they really should commit to the game being what they envision it to be. If veterans/casuals feel they need to leave or take a break as a result of it, then so be it. The franchise had gained a following due to its niche nature; it can surely garner another one that'll appreciate what it becomes. 

It's impossible to please everyone, so I can only hope Klei eventually ceases torturing themselves trying to do so.

[Faintly Macabre]

2 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

You are bringing a concept to justify that failures in development (exploit) are normal. Dude, this argument doesn't make sense.

And you are characterizing oversights in development that don't hurt anybody as failures. Dude, this argument doesn't make sense.

[allmeitysk]

Lureplant cheeses make such a big topic in this community. Easy to solve, dont care about what others do. Fix it for fight purposes obviously. Or solve a bigger problem why people use lureplants. I use it to farm moon rock, there is currently no efficient way how to obtain large amount of moon rock that would satisfy my need in my megabases. 

[AveHortor]

11 hours ago, V2C said:

 

• Lureplants can now be trampled by creatures that can trample through obstacles and structures.

 

Welp, time to use Spider Dens.

  

9 hours ago, V2C said:

We are likely going to change the Lureplant fix to only affect the newer content.  We decided to fix this now because of how it affected the Scrappy Werepig before he could even reach the Junk Pile to pick up his first weapon.

Nvm, bless. 

Edited March 20 by AveHortor

[kroban]

4 hours ago, Yuuko said:

With AFW I can go back and re-fight it different ways.  I can do it with nm amulets and weather pains, or skip the weather pains and kite him around, or carefully balance sanity loss and gains with hivehat vs sanity recovery foods, or yes stick him with a lure plant and hold F until he's dead.  Because these are all options I can re-play the fight multiple times and enjoy it each time without quitting DST and playing something different.

Thats the thing, you DON'T.

You dont fight AFW with the cheese lureplant, you are watching a husk of what the boss is supposed to be getting killed by something that isnt even the player, the hondius/es. Its not a "fight" no matter how much you are trying to sell it as "ohh but the creativity, the sandbox, the replayability, player expression and variance". Its a cheese, plain and simple, you are literally skipping the entire fight using a "non-legit" method. You are not taking even 1 hit from the boss because he just can't attack you. ITS NOT a fight.

And hey, I use this cheese all the time, and I understand why. FW fight is disgusting and specially to do solo, which is what most players want to do. Even in multiplayer, because they want to get a full ruins for themselves. And the whole route pre-FW is already tiredsome enough with the whole farming heart, finding fossils, the key, going to the atrium, setting up the skeleton, etc.

The fight itself is a huge pain, most players (myself included) end up "locked with the immortal FW" wastin resources because of his horrible hands and wovens CDs, and the legit fight also requires lots of farming and using multiple different items that can easily make the inventory a whole mess in the middle of the fight etc etc.

So yes, I can understand this cheese being a "necessary evil" for most players right now. But thats because the fight itself is horrible. That doesnt change the fact that the lureplant cheese IS a cheese. Its not "player creativity" when 99% of the players are now just skipping the entire fight because of how easy it is to setup the cheese - 2 lureplants and a hondius (or even Walter's slingshot lol).

What Klei SHOULD do is reworking the entire fight (putting longer CD's on his abilities, maybe adding another attack so FW uses less hands, adding something in the area that can be used as a legit advantage) and THEN remove the lureplant cheese. This is exactly what they did with Ancient Guardian. You can still cheese it, but who even does that now? the fight has a mechanic that you can use for advantage, its easily doable without having to spend an entire year just farming things for 1 fight, unlike FW's fight.

Edited March 20 by kroban

[Copyafriend]

15 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Making a game worse for fun? I won't ever see this as a good thing. We finally got a replacement for lureplant item deletion and in the same update its not able to delete all items.

Its a seasonal item that you’ll recieve in low amounts and can be destroyed by feeding it to pigmen. Its just not that serious. It’s pretty funny from a “we fixed a bug, this item definitely is too annoying to be destroyed this easily” standpoint 

[Cruvimaster]

10 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

And you are characterizing oversights in development that don't hurt anybody as failures. Dude, this argument doesn't make sense.

In fact, I even liked that Klei took a stand for something so old. Everything people say on the Forum can be countered with this.

Just don't forget that these are the developer's own words: "When we have time, we want to address some of the issues with the old fights"

Edited March 20 by Cruvimaster

[Captain_Rage]

14 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

A big selling point for DST is sandbox.

Sandbox game definition: A sandbox game is a video game with a gameplay element that provides players a great degree of creativity. to interact with, usually without any predetermined goal, or alternatively with a goal that the players set for themselves. Such games may lack any objective.

If we have only one way to kill a boss and everything else is "fixed" that part of the game isn't sandbox anymore.

It is still a selling point. A selling point for any game ought to be its polish (unless you are looking for a game with a notorious meme factor). Developers who design a game well also take pride in making it look and play out solid. It happens that unintended glitches or omissions make a game more popular or fun but in this case blocking one of the final bosses which is supposed to be scary and tricky to tackle with a Lureplant makes the game feel less polished.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Captain_Rage said:

blocking one of the final bosses with a Lureplant makes the game feel less polished

why care about that? most people won't know about this before buying the game and likely won't figure it out on their own after buying it

[cropo]

11 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

It is still a selling point. A selling point for any game ought to be its polish (unless you are looking for a game with a notorious meme factor). Developers who design a game well also take pride in making it look and play out solid. It happens that unintended glitches or omissions make a game more popular or fun but in this case blocking one of the final bosses which is supposed to be scary and tricky to tackle with a Lureplant makes the game feel less polished.

No it doesn't. No one in Skyrim complained about the enchanting glitch, in fact most casual players I talk to mention it like it was the most big-brained exploit they could ever do. Bethesda intentionally kept the goofy giant's club smashing you into orbit, and specifically made sure to keep the glitch of putting pots on an NPC's head to blind them from you stealing.

 

When Nintendo remastered Majora's mask, they intentionally left in some of the harmless glitches that were player-activated like using the fierce diety mask in the overworld, because they were fun and made the games a lot more interesting beyond their intended gameplay loops.

 

Polish doesn't really involve quirky glitches that you have to intentionally try to do yourself to get it to work, it would involve involuntary glitches that inflict damage on the gameplay regardless of the players own personal input. 

 

This argument position just seems so outlandish and wild to me, like...not just you, everyone trying to seriously argue this. Like what the hell man...

Edited March 20 by cropo

[kroban]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why care about that? most people won't know about this before buying the game and likely won't figure it out on their own after buying it

A new player enters on a server, first time checking out the game. Spends a couple weeks learning about it, fights some bosses, and then learns about Fuelweaver being basically THE boss from caves. Goes there with "vet players" to "kill him", only to find out that they are just locking the boss in place with some plants, skipping the entire fight, while some laser eye kills it from the distance while the vet player uses /carol and is afk waiting for the boss to die. 

This is kind of what happened to me after spending years in DS and moving out to try DST, like, 6 years ago . As much as I love DST, the fact that one of the current "main" bosses from the game can just get cheesed like this looks horrible for the game.

[TalhaStarve]

İm soooo confused why yaal crying about a cheese getting removed.Playing till spring or killing a already required boss is not the price for killing the litteral end boss.İf you are bad just practice what is the matter with this things?You are litterly waiting afk for a end game boss to die hıw can this satisfie you?