[Game Update] - 599141

[Reecitz]

Unfortunate that the new lunar hail feature won't be arriving this update, but it's for the best that it ensures it's properly ready when it does.

But perhaps there is still time to have another look at existing content, that being skill trees in this case; Wormwood's the one that's been receiving the most attention, so maybe it's time to discuss the others as well?

Edited March 20 by Reecitz

[Mike23Ua]

59 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I believe it is the most important message for the community and ends any discussion about the use of exploids in the game.

I mean to be fair, lureplant is teeny tiny little plant, FeulWeaver is large Goliath scary monster- Even Wolfgang brain fart on this one.

Anything labeled as “Giant” should probably be able to crush it.

Which reminds me… Why can you lure Armored Bearger into a Brightshade plant and then kill him by throwing a boomerang at the plant so it AoE’s? Isnt Armored Bearger and the Brightshades on the same “Team?”

[ADM]

43 minutes ago, V2C said:

We are likely going to change the Lureplant fix to only affect the newer content.  We decided to fix this now because of how it affected the Scrappy Werepig before he could even reach the Junk Pile to pick up his first weapon.

That is a weird favor given the circumstances for FW are dangerously close if not for the distance required to pull it off but the fraught is the same.

I'm not making the decision neither for the considerable playerbase that might have been relying on it or your general idea of how the game should/can be played at Klei, but I'm not really buying on deliberately keeping exploits such as this. I'm sure something else can be done.

[JazzyGames]

Enlightened crown fix is very much appreciated. The lureplant fix surprised me, I was actually thinking of the moonrock farming exploit before I remembered Fuelweaver. I don’t use them too much but it’s nice to hear that it will be reverted so that players can still use them if they want. I’m sure we’ll find plenty of new ways to cheese Scrapiggus, don’t worry.

[mykenception]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Which reminds me… Why can you lure Armored Bearger into a Brightshade plant and then kill him by throwing a boomerang at the plant so it AoE’s? Isnt Armored Bearger and the Brightshades on the same “Team?”

same as befriending spiders and get them to fight each other, and other followers

and how accidentally hitting a follower means hostility to the mob

No one appreciates friendly fire, not even the plants and undead

[Reecitz]

Klei doesn't want lureplants to affect Scrappy Werepig, preventing him from fighting back, yet they are allowing that exact same behavior with Ancient Fuelweaver, along with many others?

This sort of selective behavior is quite odd to say the least, and it may confuse people when they notice lureplants block one giant yet they don't block another. Personally, I ask for Klei to fully commit to a philosophy: either lureplants work for all, allowing people to have options to complete objectives like a sandbox game people claim this game is, or lureplants work for none, giving us a true idea of how they want to balance the game while encouraging people to either engage in the content or get more creative with the tools in their disposal. 

Besides, wasn't there another Moonrock farm method that didn't involve lureplants, involving a varg or something?

[Faintly Macabre]

23 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Which reminds me… Why can you lure Armored Bearger into a Brightshade plant and then kill him by throwing a boomerang at the plant so it AoE’s? Isnt Armored Bearger and the Brightshades on the same “Team?”

Because it's a tall task to make all mob interactions past and present consider every other mob's behavior past and present, and stuff is bound to slip through the cracks. If/when this tactic was brought to their attention, they probably laughed and went, "hah, that's pretty clever!" because it is pretty clever and doesn't actually hurt anybody.

[V2C]

Hey guys, seems to be some confusion, but to clarify, we do intend to fix these bugs and exploits eventually.  For the older bosses, they were not a focus of this update.  When we have time, we want to address some of the issues with the old fights such as Fuelweaver before we unexpectedly remove some players' means of progressing past them.

[Faintly Macabre]

8 minutes ago, V2C said:

When we have time, we want to address some of the issues with the old fights such as Fuelweaver before we unexpectedly remove some players' means of progressing past them.

Probably won't be popular with everybody, but as someone whose reason to usually (but not always) cheese Fuelweaver is that fighting him alone on a controller is a particularly unpleasant task, thank you.

Edited March 20 by Faintly Macabre

[Reecitz]

11 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Probably won't be popular with everybody, but as someone whose reason to usually (but not always) cheese Fuelweaver is that fighting him alone on a controller is a particularly unpleasant task, thank you.

A fellow controller brethren, what a rare sight indeed!

[Habakkuk]

18 minutes ago, V2C said:

Hey guys, seems to be some confusion, but to clarify, we do intend to fix these bugs and exploits eventually.  For the older bosses, they were not a focus of this update.  When we have time, we want to address some of the issues with the old fights such as Fuelweaver before we unexpectedly remove some players' means of progressing past them.

Cheese is part of the game, and I hope it will always be. One of the things that makes DS and DST beautiful for me and  for a lot of other players is that we have freedom to choose how we want to play, we are not forced to play always the same way. We can be creative, and a sandbox is about creativity. Kill bosses in an easy way because we set up a farm to that is a reward for a lot of players.

[Mx-Pain]

4 hours ago, V2C said:

Changes

• The Enlightened Crown UI now stays closed after joining a world or going to the caves.

 

Thanks a freaking lot !!!!!!!

I will stop spamming this request now.

Now, please increase GUI Size for spliscreen :')

[Frosty_Mentos]

5 hours ago, V2C said:

Lureplants can now be trampled by creatures that can trample through obstacles and structures.

 

It was fun while it lasted with Fuelweaver.

[Auth]

19 hours ago, V2C said:

Hey guys, seems to be some confusion, but to clarify, we do intend to fix these bugs and exploits eventually.  For the older bosses, they were not a focus of this update.  When we have time, we want to address some of the issues with the old fights such as Fuelweaver before we unexpectedly remove some players' means of progressing past them.

Perfection. This is what I want to see. Exploits given proper looks and new, valid, intended means of taking them down introduced.

Some say cheese removal, but I like to look at what was done to Ancient Guardian. Simple changes using the idea of the initial exploit to build off of and make something new.
This is what we should be doing. Removing abusive behaviors and balancing them to make players still able to engage, but in new, possibly even more rewarding ways.

This goes to show that if you have any kind of suggestions for changes with FW, you should be suggesting them now. I am already ludicrously excited.

As someone who regularly struggles with Fuelweaver's fight and mechanics specifically, this would be AMAZING to see new strategies open up that don't feel like I'm cheating.
...Do you think Crab King could get some looking at too, when you get around to it?

EDIT:

I'd like to clarify. I love how difficult Fuelweaver is. He is truly one of the best examples of game design the game has and possibly ever will have.
However, now that he's effectively become a Wall-Of-Flesh boss that gatekeeps a huge (and growing) chunk of content, adding new methods to deal with him would be greatly appreciated. I know I certainly would, I have Aspergers so I really can't handle such demanding multitasking very well. It's just something I am not able to do.

I really wish that the fight does not get any easier. But that new items or strategies could be introduced instead. The best example I can give is the brightshade staff. It's a multi-hit projectile that distinctly targets different enemies. This item can be used during FW's fight and is a magnificent new addition that can be taken or left depending on a player's preference. This is what I want to see more of: More valid options, not an easier fight.

Edited March 21 by Auth
Clarification

[SapoLover]

Woah, it doesn't affect me, but it makes my eye tilt to see you taking a step back ON A FIX because some people want to afk or hold F for easy kills and infinite moon rock. Well, on the good side, I guess it's nice you're updating some bosses because of that. One good thing about the cheese lovers.

Edited March 20 by SapoLover

[Cassielu]

41 minutes ago, V2C said:

we want to address some of the issues with the old fights such as Fuelweaver

That scares me a lot more than all these cheese stuff. Fuelweaver was created eight years ago, is designers today still grasp its design intent? It's a perfect classics DS-style strategy-oriented puzzle boss, don't tarnish it with from beyond style nothing but movement combat design.

boss requiring the player to use different items is not the problem that needs to be solved, controller can't do it quickly is.

[Masked Koopa]

1 hour ago, V2C said:

Hey guys, seems to be some confusion, but to clarify, we do intend to fix these bugs and exploits eventually.  For the older bosses, they were not a focus of this update.  When we have time, we want to address some of the issues with the old fights such as Fuelweaver before we unexpectedly remove some players' means of progressing past them.

In a similar vein I think it would be really cool if ya'll could get around to fixing mob pathfinding with static objects, it's pretty annoying having them get stuck in random positions around my base. Maybe add an invisible wall of some sort so people can still trick mob pathfinding on purpose.

Still I'm really happy to hear that sort of thing is on the table, these types of updates do absolute wonder for long term worlds.

[zhangsheng]

1 hour ago, V2C said:

Hey guys, seems to be some confusion, but to clarify, we do intend to fix these bugs and exploits eventually.  For the older bosses, they were not a focus of this update.  When we have time, we want to address some of the issues with the old fights such as Fuelweaver before we unexpectedly remove some players' means of progressing past them

When you have time, please make sure to redo the Toadsool and Misery Toadsool. This boss is difficult and not as interesting as Ancient Fuelweaver. Every time I hit it, it's a torture that I have to use lureplant.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Auth said:

Perfection. This is what I want to see. Exploits given proper looks and new, valid, intended means of taking them down introduced.

Some say cheese removal, but I like to look at what was done to Ancient Guardian. Simple changes using the idea of the initial exploit to build off of and make something new.
This is what we should be doing. Removing abusive behaviors and balancing them to make players still able to engage, but in new, possibly even more rewarding ways.

This goes to show that if you have any kind of suggestions for changes with FW, you should be suggesting them now. I am already ludicrously excited.

As someone who regularly struggles with Fuelweaver's fight and mechanics specifically, this would be AMAZING to see new strategies open up that don't feel like I'm cheating.
...Do you think Crab King could get some looking at too, when you get around to it?

I agree.. but some things should be fair game, such as for example: Using a horde of Bunnymen, a horde of Merms or in this case 19,000 bees.

I hope Klei does not remove the bee strategy from CrabKing, this is not an exploit, your not blocking off a bosses ability to walk with a tiny easy to obtain plant.. you still very much have to catch a ton of bees with nets & craft bee mines, and dodge his attacks.

Theres a difference.

Gunpowder should’ve been a “valid” strategy too, but some bosses were given gunpowder resistance.

Edited March 20 by Mike23Ua

[Dreadstone]

4 hours ago, V2C said:

Just to answer a few questions:

New features related to Lunar Hail will come in a future update, NOT part of this update (Scrappy Scavengers) beta or live release.

Upgrading Scaled Chests are still coming to this update.

We'll make crafting work with ingredients in containers opened from your inventory.

We are likely going to change the Lureplant fix to only affect the newer content.  We decided to fix this now because of how it affected the Scrappy Werepig before he could even reach the Junk Pile to pick up his first weapon.

Thank you very much for the prompt feedback.

[Szczuku]

2 hours ago, V2C said:

Hey guys, seems to be some confusion, but to clarify, we do intend to fix these bugs and exploits eventually.  For the older bosses, they were not a focus of this update.  When we have time, we want to address some of the issues with the old fights such as Fuelweaver before we unexpectedly remove some players' means of progressing past them.

I'm sorry but what is the plan then?

The entire point of the Lureplant/spider eggs cheese is to make AF not function. How are you going to remove these exploits but keep the players who use them happy? Add walls that you can craft pre-fuelweaver that completely remove any and all effort from the fight?

AFAIK there is no probelm with the AF bossfight aside from some players going "It requires too much effort from me, I shouldn't be forced  to bring more items to the boss than a weapon and armor". That cheese literally is only used by people who don't want to participate in that fight but still want rewards

Edited March 20 by Szczuku

[Frosty_Mentos]

2 hours ago, V2C said:

Hey guys, seems to be some confusion, but to clarify, we do intend to fix these bugs and exploits eventually.  For the older bosses, they were not a focus of this update.  When we have time, we want to address some of the issues with the old fights such as Fuelweaver before we unexpectedly remove some players' means of progressing past them.

So, does that mean we'll be getting new tools to deal with these kinds of bosses or there's gonna be some bigger changes for older bosses to be different to what they are? If it's a mystery for now I guess it's fine to not tell, but if you got info on what your plans are with the changes it'd be appreciated to let us know.

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, V2C said:

Changes

• Lureplants can now be trampled by creatures that can trample through obstacles and structures.
•  

 

Boo.  Quit being a hater and let ppl have fun.

[finn from human]

35 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

The entire point of the Lureplant/spider eggs cheese is to make AF not function. How are you going to remove these exploits but keep the players who use them happy?

Personally, the reason I use the lureplant cheese against Fuelweaver is because I find the fight frustrating and not any fun, which is something I cannot say for 98% of the content in this videogame. If the fight was reworked to have design more akin to modern DST boss fights, then I would likely find it fun, and have no reason to cheese it. It's the same as the Ancient Guardian, they reworked him to be fun and now I gladly do the fight because I find it fun!

[Frosty_Mentos]

To be fair, it's either the lureplants I'll use or gunpowder to blow up fuelweaver. We have alternatives still even if they are a little riskier.