[Game Update] - 599141

[Faintly Macabre]

Anybody here remember cheat codes? Boy would that break some of these brains.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, kroban said:

Im saying efficient as in wasting as little resources as possible, not as in rushing FW at day 21

you can do it during 1st autumn too, it makes sense that you can make killing him free if you're megabasing and you can kill him by spending only a few brightshade repair kits since you can just swap to void armor while you aren't taking damage and use bone helm instead of nightmare amulet and place thuribles to prevent bone cages which cost pretty much nothing considering FW drops 2-4 nf back which would also be much faster than afking 

[Dingle]

Reading all this is making me think that the Official Klei Animation for this update should be Wilson doing the lureplant exploit on Fuelweaver. The whole process, beautifully animated. Why not? It's part of the official lore now.

34 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Right? Speedrunners exploit 30 hours games down into 15 minutes, but I can't imagine watching a speedrun of a game I'm only somewhat familiar with and deciding "wow this game must suck".

I've seen some speedruns that make their game look really bad/boring. Worse, some speedruns are really boring to watch because they skip all the fights that make the game interesting. Charity speedrun organizations tend to ban "warp to credits" style speedruns, for example, as no one's excited to watch them.

[Cruvimaster]

Guys, there is an official position and it is very clear about the use of lureplants. They are exploits and the developers do not approve. They just tolerate it while they can't take the time to remove it. Klei always knew, as there are dozens of videos showing this. It was never a priority for them, except for this last update. And there is no mention of a future rework of the giants, which could take several years to happen and many here won't even be playing DST anymore. That's it for the moment.

[Copyafriend]

23 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Anybody here remember cheat codes? Boy would that break some of these brains.

We have cheat codes right now, its called console commands. If you want to spawn in the boss loot feel free, but thats a totally separate discussion than whether exploits should be patched. And its a rather condescending rude point too.

i personally am for them being patched, but mostly because i am against cheeses for major bosses in games. If he’s supposed to be a progression lock, bypassing the lock does no favors for newbies. I also think its a bad look, but i dont think its “actively hurting the game” or something like that. It just looks silly and makes klei look a little incompetent for not patching such an obvious glitch. Not that they are of course but appearances n all that.

 

but honestly i think they’ve made their stance on the exploit fairly obvious. If they say it stays it stays, if they say it goes it goes, i’m not going to whine about it

Edited March 20, 2024 by Copyafriend

[Faintly Macabre]

6 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I've seen some speedruns that make their game look really bad/boring. Worse, some speedruns are really boring to watch because they skip all the fights that make the game interesting. Charity speedrun organizations tend to ban "warp to credits" style speedruns, for example, as no one's excited to watch them.

I meant deciding that the game is bad just because they can be speedrun that way. Being able to exploit a game does not automatically make it bad. And I actually don't much enjoy a lot of speedruns for the very reason you're mentioning.

[JazzyGames]

6 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

They are exploits and the developers do not approve. They just tolerate it while they can't take the time to remove it.

For Klei it's more than just wanting to patch exploits, I think. It's about giving players more incentives to not cheese the fight by revisiting some of the issues with these older fights and fixing the underlying reasons why so many players choose to cheese the boss to begin with. I remember before Ancient Guardian was reworked the pillar cheese (and void cheese with Wanda) was extremely common practice for the fight. Now since the rework the fight is just better, more fun, and far less tedious. I am sure that a similar treatment given to FW would effectively reduce the incentive to resort to lureplants and houndius. Until they have time to do this, though, they aren't going to make patching all of these methods the biggest priority. Makes sense to me.

[Faintly Macabre]

5 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

We have cheat codes right now, its called console commands. If you want to spawn in the boss loot feel free, but thats a totally separate discussion than whether exploits should be patched. And its a rather condescending rude point too.

It's absolutely not a "totally separate discussion"; the end result is pretty much the same. And watching people cackle with glee as other people lose things they enjoy, I don't feel particularly bad for not being super nice about it.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, JazzyGames said:

I am sure that a similar treatment given to FW would effectively reduce the incentive to resort to lureplants and houndius

i hope they won't turn FW into another "do the boss' gimmick and hold F on it until it wakes up" fight that only requires you to have a weapon and do something extremely intuitive and easy, AG is also boring and got stale fast because there's practically no risk because shadow tentacles are very easy to see and the boss can't deal damage to you if you hide behind a pillar, if FW would get turned into that i'd definitely do cheese just so i spend less time doing boring stuff 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Making a game worse for fun? I won't ever see this as a good thing. We finally got a replacement for lureplant item deletion and in the same update its not able to delete all items.

A big selling point for DST is sandbox.

Sandbox game definition: A sandbox game is a video game with a gameplay element that provides players a great degree of creativity. to interact with, usually without any predetermined goal, or alternatively with a goal that the players set for themselves. Such games may lack any objective.

If we have only one way to kill a boss and everything else is "fixed" that part of the game isn't sandbox anymore.

Hey Buddy, can I introduce you to ark survival evolved? And then Re-Introduce you to that same game (again) with Ark survival Ascended?

To keep this polite and short: They’re two different versions of the same game, and no I don’t just mean in prettier graphics, I mean that a lot of the things you COULD do in ASE, You Can NOT DO in ASA- Because the developers saw what players were doing (such as luring a certain boss into deep water so it drowns itself instantly) and in the updated version of that game- Huh what do you know? This boss can’t be drowned anymore.

Same game… but Old outdated tactics from Yester-Year removed so a new generation of players have to come up with a different tactic besides the known method of drowning it.

Whats my point? ASE/ASA is a sandbox survival game that can & does get updates to the way players play the game.

You need a Minecraft example? Prior to that swooping bat thing & the “Drowned” players could avoid all the games dangers by building a 1 block tower up into the sky to just wait out the nights, or hang out in a boat in the middle of the water.

The Bat, now swoops downward at the player knocking them off their 1 block tower foundation, and the drowned spawn in the water to challenge you.

These are all Sandbox Survival games, and they ALL had changes made to them based on how players were playing the game in a way the developers weren’t happy with & were disheartened by.

As a writer myself, that’s like telling me this part of my story sucks and would be better if I changed it. Opinions are fine to have- but in the end.. it’s my story to tell, I’m gonna tell it the way I want it told.

Same Rules apply to video games, you’ll play the way the developers want you to and you’re gonna like it. (Or stop playing) 

[Cruvimaster]

9 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

For Klei it's more than just wanting to patch exploits, I think. It's about giving players more incentives to not cheese the fight by revisiting some of the issues with these older fights and fixing the underlying reasons why so many players choose to cheese the boss to begin with. I remember before Ancient Guardian was reworked the pillar cheese (and void cheese with Wanda) was extremely common practice for the fight. Now since the rework the fight is just better, more fun, and far less tedious. I am sure that a similar treatment given to FW would effectively reduce the incentive to resort to lureplants and houndius. Until they have time to do this, though, they aren't going to make patching all of these methods the biggest priority. Makes sense to me.

The only thing I regret is that this discussion ended with more important things that will be definitively implemented soon.

For example, could Scaled Chests increase their capacity to 18 or 15 slots?

The W.O.B.O.T. Should I increase the amount of items collected to be more functional?

But all that was lost because of lureplant.

[IAmAFurrz]

9 hours ago, Reecitz said:

This sort of selective behavior is quite odd to say the least, and it may confuse people when they notice lureplants block one giant yet they don't block another. Personally, I ask for Klei to fully commit to a philosophy: either lureplants work for all, allowing people to have options to complete objectives like a sandbox game people claim this game is, or lureplants work for none, giving us a true idea of how they want to balance the game while encouraging people to either engage in the content or get more creative with the tools in their disposal. 

i heard they said theyll keep the cheese until they get to reworking the bosses from older content so you wouldnt even want to cheese them cuz honestly fw fight is has such stupid mechanics working against the player, like structures blocking your mouse clicks to attack faster/attack wovens or even nm creature rng, whether they disappear after you became sane or not being such a problem and can potentially just last the entire fight. i play wigfrid and she truly does make even this god awful fight fun, but its unfun as literally anyone else

[IAmAFurrz]

5 hours ago, arubaro said:

Controller should be changed before drastic changes but i don't see why a company would like to keep these AI bugs just because there is a bunch of lazy players that dont want to make the effort of learning how to beat their content with any of their multiple tools that make it easier 

 

usually i dont like throwing this card around but: hello. player with 6k hours here. literally this (aside from ck) is the only fight i really, REALLY do not enjoy ever. the main reason why i never reset ruins is bc of this awful fight. spent like 50 hours learning this fight, did it once, that world got corrupted, then everytime i get to the fight i have to practice again bc the small margin of error of the fight is mostly due to the statues/pillars in arena (also affects weather pains tragectory), plus nm creature rng mechanic, as well as wovens healing for 750 per. i never get to enjoy the fight without doing some other boring way bc if i do it properly its gonna drain my resources or time, with practice and whatnot. nowadays i either play wigfrid or just use lureplant bc that fight seriously needs a rework. just bc you know and can fight it doesnt mean others' opinions have to align with yours because 'they're lazy'

2 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Maxwell exists

period. maxwell's prison cage existing just makes all bosses become like every other mob. its also another way you can replicate the dumb lureplant cheese ANYWAY

8 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Why do people want to announce to everybody that they can't finish arguments they started?

he shutdown the argument, clearly he won 

Edited March 20, 2024 by IAmAFurrz
sounded mean, dont want to make enemies on forums (even tho it is true)

[Copyafriend]

20 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

It's absolutely not a "totally separate discussion"; the end result is pretty much the same. And watching people cackle with glee as other people lose things they enjoy, I don't feel particularly bad for not being super nice about it.

No one is “cackling with joy” at an exploit being patched. You should not take a bug being patched; however useful it may be, personally. Its fine that you enjoy it.

 

If you think bugs and console commands are the same then you have lost nothing, simply use c_godmode() and hold f to win. If that doesn’t feel satisfying, then set up the things you used to use, spawn the boss and kill it with console commands. Its the same effect.

if you still don’t like it, then you need to understand that using the exploits to kill a boss is no less “cheating” (in quotation marks because it’s a single player game so who cares) than using console commands to kill the boss. It just gives a false sense of legitimacy because you never opened the cheat menu and only used “game mechanics” that killed the boss for you. 

again to reiterate, i do not care if you do use it, but if you’re going to pretend that its a cheat code then just use the actual built in cheat codes.

But if you want to return to reality for a minute, understand that its entirely up to a developer whether or not to patch an exploit, and that you liking an exploit is not a good reason to keep it. Skyrim isn’t exactly a good example of a well made game that kept its exploits. Klei specified that they’re going to unpatch it because they want to fix fuelweaver before removing the exploit, not because the exploit inherently has merit.

[arubaro]

10 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

usually i dont like throwing this card around but: hello. player with 6k hours here. literally this (aside from ck) is the only fight i really, REALLY do not enjoy ever. the main reason why i never reset ruins is bc of this awful fight. spent like 50 hours learning this fight, did it once, that world got corrupted, then everytime i get to the fight i have to practice again bc the small margin of error of the fight is mostly due to the statues/pillars in arena (also affects weather pains tragectory), plus nm creature rng mechanic, as well as wovens healing for 750 per. i never get to enjoy the fight without doing some other boring way bc if i do it properly its gonna drain my resources or time, with practice and whatnot. nowadays i either play wigfrid or just use lureplant bc that fight seriously needs a rework. just bc you know and can fight it doesnt mean others' opinions have to align with yours because 'they're lazy'

I agree that the fight is really hard. It took me a bunch of time to start beating him (not even doing it well..) but things are changing, we have more perks, more buffs, better ways of farming materials, more damage to fight him or to fight the staff needed to beat him easily, we get moon gear, etc 

Something being hard doesnt mean it should also be free or have bugs (he doesnt even trigger his shield...)

 

Pd. This is a game about gathering resources and crafting items, ofc fighting a boss will drain your materials and items

Edited March 20, 2024 by arubaro

[Cheggf]

  

14 hours ago, V2C said:

Lureplants can now be trampled by creatures that can trample through obstacles and structures.

:steamhappy::steamhappy::steamhappy::steamhappy:

11 hours ago, V2C said:

We are likely going to change the Lureplant fix to only affect the newer content.

:steamsad::steamsad::steamsad::steamsad:

[cropo]

3 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Skyrim isn’t exactly a good example of a well made game that kept its exploits.

Why not? It's an open world Sandbox like Don't Starve is. Street Fighter became as popular as it was today because they rolled with an exploit, GunZ Online when it was around became an absolute juggernaut when sword canceling, an exploit, completely lifted the game from obscurity.  Grand Chase for a time had a competitive scene because of an exploit found in dashing, that was later incorporated into future characters base kits because of how much it made the game better. 

 

There are tons, tons of games that have kept or adapted unintended exploits for the betterment of the game/sandbox environment.  Don't Starve has always had an absurdist mockery in its artwork and style that perfectly matches the idea that an avatar of pure evil can be killed with a bunch of plants, it's in Don't Starve's blood.

[IAmAFurrz]

4 minutes ago, arubaro said:

I agree that the fight is really hard. It took me a bunch of time to start beating him (not even doing it well..) but things are changing, we have more perks, more buffs, better ways of farming materials, more damage to fight him or to fight the staff needed to beat him easily, we get moon gear, etc 

Something being hard doesnt mean it should also be free or have bugs (he doesnt even trigger his shield...)

rn, plenty of characters do not have skill trees, and the brightshade staff is god damn expensive thatll take extra waiting after already having beaten CC for surface rift

i know there is a fine balance thats reachable with the games difficulty and the enjoyment of fights, but there are so many mechanics in the game that completely makes me not want to participate in the fight at all

[mykenception]

30 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Same Rules apply to video games, you’ll play the way the developers want you to and you’re gonna like it. (Or stop playing) 

Isn't this a sandbox game? where your creativity is rewarded?

saying you have to play this way so you can have fun is rather constricting. 

Strict RP-only servers exist but not everyone enjoys it. Forcing players to play a specific way and cut off other "it would be fun if this also works" moments is just awful. But yeah, you don't really approve of other playstyles which isn't surprising that you also have this take.

Klei also made it clear that they don't plan on caging other players' methods even if it does involve bugs. 

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, mykenception said:

Isn't this a sandbox game? where your creativity is rewarded?

saying you have to play this way so you can have fun is rather constricting. 

Strict RP-only servers exist but not everyone enjoys it. Forcing players to play a specific way and cut off other "it would be fun if this also works" moments is just awful. But yeah, you don't really approve of other playstyles which isn't surprising that you also have this take.

Klei also made it clear that they don't plan on caging other players' methods even if it does involve bugs. 

“Sandbox” does not translate to- “What the player can do is limited to their own creativity”

Because I can go through a rather exhaustive list of Sandbox games that have indeed been patched/changed based on what players were doing that the developers did not ever intend for them to be able to do.

7 Days to Die, Minecraft, Ark Survival Evolved, GTA V, the list goes on and on.. but the point is that the player actually IS limited to what they can do because if the devs don’t want you doing it, they’ll stop you from doing it.

Rather that’s patching a bug, or updating old mechanics, or adding new content that directly opposes whatever you were doing.

Sandbox has never = there are no rules I can do what I want.

[cropo]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

7 Days to Die, Minecraft, Ark Survival Evolved, GTA V

All PVP oriented, "competitive" games, GTA V mostly because Rockstar has real incentive to nerf exploits that give the players a way to farm money to push them into buying their Shark Cards.

[arubaro]

8 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

rn, plenty of characters do not have skill trees, and the brightshade staff is god damn expensive thatll take extra waiting after already having beaten CC for surface rift

i know there is a fine balance thats reachable with the games difficulty and the enjoyment of fights, but there are so many mechanics in the game that completely makes me not want to participate in the fight at all

Everything feels expensive if the fight can be beaten for free and everything will feel difficult if you can be afk and receive the (numerous) rewards...

Is fine if you dont enjoy the fighting aspect of the game but that doesnt justifies a boss being defeated by staying afk. I dont enjoy football games but wont ask to devs to keep a bug that allow me to score without playing

8 minutes ago, mykenception said:

Isn't this a sandbox game? where your creativity is rewarded?

There is no creativity to copy a youtube video to defeat a boss by standing still

[Copyafriend]

1 minute ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Bro, it happened on the literal first page, and many, many times since. I can't blame you if you don't want to read the entire thread but at least don't be so certain of its contents.

People being happy an exploit being fixed are not “cackling with joy” they can find it annoying without being a personal attack on people who use it.

secondly you never addressed me dismantling your claim that the exploit is a “cheat code”

3 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Not one person who cheeses this boss thinks they legitimately killed it. Not one.

This is either a lie or vastly misunderstanding the situation. Many people see exploits as perfectly valid ways to play. In other words they see it as not cheating. Its cheating. But who cares if someone wants to use console commands to beat the boss? My problem is that the reason many people defend it is because they see it as a valid and unique way of killing the boss, as if its not the boss walking at an indestructible wall for 30 minutes while being chipped away until it dies. Real dynamic gameplay there.

6 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Also a big portion of the people for whom this fight is a problem are console players, who don't have access to the console PC users do.

I’m sure, and klei has said they’re gonna work on the fight and it will be unpatched for now. Its reasonable to have trouble if the fight isnt designed with controllers

But that and your quote don’t really explain why you’ve went out of the way to bite and snap at every person who goes “i agree with this being patched”. They said they’re leaving it unpatched for now. They said they’re gonna work on it and come back, it seems like a settled thing that YOU agree with, why are you arguing then?

2 minutes ago, cropo said:

All PVP oriented, "competitive" games, GTA V mostly because Rockstar has real incentive to nerf exploits that give the players a way to farm money to push them into buying their Shark Cards.

The only game in this that’s “pvp oriented” is GTA V. Ark and minecraft having pvp as an option does not make it pvp oriented. And i have never seen anyone play 7 days to die pvp without it being the entire focus of that server.

[cropo]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

There is no creativity to copy a youtube video to defeat a boss by standing still

It is a community discovered thing, this game ran on that for a long time. You don't have to be the one to invent it to see its creativity and use it yourself.

[Cheggf]

15 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Bro, it happened on the literal first page, and many, many times since. I can't blame you if you don't want to read the entire thread but at least don't be so certain of its contents.

Not one person who cheeses this boss thinks they legitimately killed it. Not one. Also a big portion of the people for whom this fight is a problem are console players, who don't have access to the console PC users do.

And this isn't even about me; I made my personal feelings about their decisions pretty clear.

Why are you acting like an exploit being patched is a personal attack on you? It's just a glitch.