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Clothing items and backpacks at the same time


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1 hour ago, Lumine04 said:

Explain well, and I will too afterwards

Dapper vest, Breezy/puffy vest, summer frest, floral shirt, rain coat, hibernation vest.

All complete and utter garbage with the sole exception of the raincoat exclusively as WX without a eyebrella in combat, which should only really happen if you have 2 WX's in one world, an EXTREME niche in the best possible scenario.

the rest are self explanatory, nobody cares about insulation beyond the same winter cap / eyebrella and thermal combo, and who really cares about an extra 3.3 sanity a minute, or some decreased hunger drain after autumn 2.

I could go over the cawnival, amulets, and a couple armors too, but those would start to extend beyond the scope of the argument, so in summary, chest clothing bad.

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I think most of body slot items are ok as is. The only exceptions I can think of are breezy vest and summer frest, and hibernation vest's poor durability (functionality of the latter is ok though, durability could be increased to 10 or 15 days).

Body slot items provide both weather protection and other benefits such as sanity regeneration (even +2 per minute allows to maintain roughly the same sanity level across full day most of the time or greatly reduce net loss in winter), hunger rate reduction, light + speed, cooling effect (chilling amulet actually works very well with floral shirt, especially on public server without eyebrellas), etc. On top of that they typically have more durability (so one can spend more time without sewing kits while constantly using items, puffy vest is prime example with it's 15 days of durability compared to beefalo hat with 10) and made from other set of materials, often easier to obtain in environment when things tend to go extinct (in puffy vest vs beefalo hat comparison all materials can be acquired no matter how destructive other players were, same for rain coat vs eyebrella/umbrella). Plus as was said before by others, body slot items insulation stacks with head slot gear insulation. Thermal stones are versatile in terms of equipment slots, but they require more time to waste to heat/cool them and run out of heat/gain heat faster than clothing with 240 insulation.

That being said, breezy vest definitely needs a buff. I would prefer it to have more % of rain protection, 30-50% would be good. Item is cheap and, much like puffy vest, is available regardless of how destructive other players were, and could serve as early tool to combat wetness for those who joined public server in spring (especially since pig skin will very likely be either non-existent, or gathered in chest at base somewhere far from spawn, plus people are biased to "where is base" question). Paired with rain hat or pretty parasol, it would give 100% wetness protection, which would make rain hat more useful, especially in the areas without trees to dry under. Rain coat with it's 100% protection is good, but 2 tentacle spots are quite expensive time investment early game, and even though I'm always happy to obtain it, I would welcome weaker, but cheaper item to help with wetness when I don't have tentacle spots, pig skin or Deerclops eyeball (typical public server experience for me, where I usually use rain hat with it's 70% protection and rely on trees to drop wetness eventually).

Summer frest just needs to be either stronger in terms of it's main purpose (insulation) or to have unique property (maybe even main purpose should be changed, much like what with one-man band happened). Floral shirt is both stronger and of comparable difficulty to obtain (in the season player may need insulation clothing), so logical change to me would be either buff summer insulation of summer frest to 240 - then choice between both items would be choice of resources + stronger sanity gain and more "durability" (in form of spoilage) for floral shirt vs durability-based summer frest - or summer frest could have unique property with insulation remaining 120 (for example, making normally fleeing mobs not do it - from birds to monkeys).

But the main strength of body slot clothing is opportunity to free hand and head slot, which is fairly underestimated usually, and it is worth to trade for extra slots depending on circumstances and goals.

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On 5/16/2022 at 10:31 AM, reallychina said:

No. This would make summer and winter trivial. 

It's already trivial. You get a Beefalo Hat and Winter becomes trivial. The Eyebrella makes both overheating and rain trivial on its own.

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And temperature is very easy to manage in dst with thermal stones only.

???

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So body clothing is a bad habit anyway.

????? We're literally suggesting to fix it so people have an incentive to try different seasonal clothing besides Eyebrella and Beefalo Hat/Tam o' Shanter.

I don't get some of these responses. We're saying that it's bad and needs to be fixed. And people are responding "it's bad so you just shouldn't use it". It doesn't make any sense. Also, the underlying sentiment behind that claim is that your way of playing the game is the only correct one. Which is ironic because as pointed out earlier, the vast majority of players aren't masters at inventory management and thus won't bother with anything that requires sacrificing their backpack.

I'd also like to know how many of these inventory masters actually use the Rain Coat and Hibearnation Vest over the Eyebrella and Beefalo Hat. The best players literally swap to WX or Wurt just so they have to worry less about seasons so they can continue to use their Krampus Sack as much as possible. Nobody's going to start using body slot clothing over head slot clothing just because they "got better at inventory management". Because the reality is you don't need to sacrifice your backpack when head slot clothing is available, and so nobody does. Instead it's just braindead Eyebrella half of the year, and Beefalo Hat/Tam o'Shanter the other half. Yeah the game definitely is more skillful this way, amazing job guys.

I doubt people would talk the same if Klei deleted the Eyebrella, because then you'd get to be rain coat Andy without a backpack or have to hold an umbrella for 25% of the year. Just admit that the seasonal clothing is bad game design.

 

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1 hour ago, Spep said:

Dapper vest, Breezy/puffy vest, summer frest, floral shirt, rain coat, hibernation vest.

All complete and utter garbage with the sole exception of the raincoat exclusively as WX without a eyebrella in combat, which should only really happen if you have 2 WX's in one world, an EXTREME niche in the best possible scenario.

the rest are self explanatory, nobody cares about insulation beyond the same winter cap / eyebrella and thermal combo, and who really cares about an extra 3.3 sanity a minute, or some decreased hunger drain after autumn 2.

I could go over the cawnival, amulets, and a couple armors too, but those would start to extend beyond the scope of the argument, so in summary, chest clothing bad.

Dapper vest is poor utility wise yes.

However breezy and puffy vests are great, I always ditch my backpack in winter because these allow for extra precious minutes. I usually dont go far from base cause I dont have to, making the cost of thermal stones an unnecessary expense for me.

I care about insulation and the sanity boosts. Both which allow me to explore even the caves for emergency reasons during winter. People who play Willow or WX benefit greatly from clothing too.

I think it boils down to the fact that most people cant handle losing their backpacks slots which are expendable in my opinion. Some people just need to learn to manage their inventory better, but to each their own.

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2 hours ago, EighteenXVIII said:

It's already trivial. You get a Beefalo Hat and Winter becomes trivial. The Eyebrella makes both overheating and rain trivial on its own.

???

????? We're literally suggesting to fix it so people have an incentive to try different seasonal clothing besides Eyebrella and Beefalo Hat/Tam o' Shanter.

I don't get some of these responses. We're saying that it's bad and needs to be fixed. And people are responding "it's bad so you just shouldn't use it". It doesn't make any sense. Also, the underlying sentiment behind that claim is that your way of playing the game is the only correct one. Which is ironic because as pointed out earlier, the vast majority of players aren't masters at inventory management and thus won't bother with anything that requires sacrificing their backpack.

I'd also like to know how many of these inventory masters actually use the Rain Coat and Hibearnation Vest over the Eyebrella and Beefalo Hat. The best players literally swap to WX or Wurt just so they have to worry less about seasons so they can continue to use their Krampus Sack as much as possible. Nobody's going to start using body slot clothing over head slot clothing just because they "got better at inventory management". Because the reality is you don't need to sacrifice your backpack when head slot clothing is available, and so nobody does. Instead it's just braindead Eyebrella half of the year, and Beefalo Hat/Tam o'Shanter the other half. Yeah the game definitely is more skillful this way, amazing job guys.

I doubt people would talk the same if Klei deleted the Eyebrella, because then you'd get to be rain coat Andy without a backpack or have to hold an umbrella for 25% of the year. Just admit that the seasonal clothing is bad game design.

 

and @Lumine04

 

The optimal way to play is magiluminescence, there is no debating that. If you don't want the hassle to use it, the next best way is a backpack, preferably an insulated pack or krampus.

 

Because thermal stones are so powerful in DST, you don't even need insulating headgear, a proper heated stone (1 furnace or 1 starcaller or better yet, 1 furnace AND a starcaller or better yet multiple furnaces) or a cooled one (stone in fridge) will last you a very long time. For winter you can cheaply burn trees to reheat, for summer you have 40 uses of mooncallers, which is more than enough.

 

I agree that the clothing bodyslots are useless but making them equipable with backpack is too much of a buff because you can forget it's winter/summer/raining alltogether.

 

The reasonable way, like another user said, is giving them a minimal amount of slots, so that they bridge magi to backpack.

 

In my opinion, 1 slot for breezy, 2 for puffy, 3 for hibernation is a sensible way to fix this issue. Another buff could be that hibernation vest provides freezing immunity (as in getting stuck in ice) so you get an advantage over crabking

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1 hour ago, Lumine04 said:

Dapper vest is poor utility wise yes.

However breezy and puffy vests are great, I always ditch my backpack in winter because these allow for extra precious minutes. I usually dont go far from base cause I dont have to, making the cost of thermal stones an unnecessary expense for me.

I care about insulation and the sanity boosts. Both which allow me to explore even the caves for emergency reasons during winter. People who play Willow or WX benefit greatly from clothing too.

I think it boils down to the fact that most people cant handle losing their backpacks slots which are expendable in my opinion. Some people just need to learn to manage their inventory better, but to each their own.

The problem still becomes that seasonal body slot items are inferior to their head gear variants and some blame that on over reliance on backpacks but again even without backpacks there are better bodyslot gear that you could be using instead the only real saving grace being that dst is a multiplayer game and high tier headshot seasonal gear is much more limited than their body counterparts for the first few years but even then some opt for lower tier headgear in exchange for keeping the body slot free for better items.

3 hours ago, Spep said:

Dapper vest, Breezy/puffy vest, summer frest, floral shirt, rain coat, hibernation vest.

All complete and utter garbage with the sole exception of the raincoat exclusively as WX without a eyebrella in combat, which should only really happen if you have 2 WX's in one world, an EXTREME niche in the best possible scenario.

This is abit of a exaggeration they're not so bad they aren't even worth considering even if they're inferior due to outside circumstances.

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35 minutes ago, reallychina said:

The reasonable way, like another user said, is giving them a minimal amount of slots, so that they bridge magi to backpack.

 

In my opinion, 1 slot for breezy, 2 for puffy, 3 for hibernation is a sensible way to fix this issue.

Now this is an idea I can get behind

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On 5/15/2022 at 12:53 PM, Cheggf said:

and they heat up faster than a stone

what

2 hours ago, reallychina said:

The optimal way to play is magiluminescence, there is no debating that.

what

3 hours ago, EighteenXVIII said:

The best players literally swap to WX or Wurt just so they have to worry less about seasons so they can continue to use their Krampus Sack as much as possible.

what

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On 5/15/2022 at 6:53 PM, Cheggf said:

don't even understand how clothes and thermal stones work and try to use both a hat and a stone

I think that was changed in DST, thermal stones are effected by player insulation values. Only in the single player does stacking stone + clothes achieve nothing.

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1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

Beefalo makes for a strong argument, theres no undebatable “optimal way” to play this game

Yes there is an undebatable way. Magiluminescence is by far the best use of a body slot. Beefalo is a niche use on chars with damage penalties, like wendy and wes and even that is somewhat debatable.

 

When it comes to simply comparing chest slots, nothing beats magiluminescence

 

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

what

yes

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1 hour ago, reallychina said:

Yes there is an undebatable way. Magiluminescence is by far the best use of a body slot. Beefalo is a niche use on chars with damage penalties, like wendy and wes and even that is somewhat debatable.

 

When it comes to simply comparing chest slots, nothing beats magiluminescence

 

yes

I think they meant rider beefalo with glossamer saddle, which beats cane+road+magi, except wanda/wormwood/wx

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1 hour ago, reallychina said:

Yes there is an undebatable way. Magiluminescence is by far the best use of a body slot. Beefalo is a niche use on chars with damage penalties, like wendy and wes and even that is somewhat debatable.

 

When it comes to simply comparing chest slots, nothing beats magiluminescence

No actually, a rider beefalo is faster than a character without a speed bonus even with a magi luminescence, (and yes that includes while followinng roads) also they do not require any upkeep once they are fully tamed. They allow for you to have a chest slot free for a backpack, or seasonal clothing, or a belt of hunger if you so choose. Speed boosts arent that useful past a certain point when it comes to combat, so you could always just hop off of the beefalo for minor fights, or more logically, just keep a magi to put on when you get there. The only downside to a beefalo is having to tame it originally, but honestly if you’re playing “optimally” you probably half tamed one when you put the statues in place.

 

but then again, you wearing a magi is really just a crutch, you should get better at the game and optimize taming a beefalo and getting a gossamer saddle ;p

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I don't think giving any amount of slots is gonna make anyone start using body slot items instead of a backpack...

Plus how would that even work? You can't put backpacks in your inventory. So if body slot items gave you slots like a backpack, you wouldn't be able to carry them in your inventory either and only be able to wear them in a body slot? To me that'd be an awful change. 

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8 hours ago, hhh2 said:

I think that was changed in DST, thermal stones are effected by player insulation values. Only in the single player does stacking stone + clothes achieve nothing.

Incorrect. The thermal stone has its own insulation value, and it's completely unaffected by the player's insulation. Some things about the stones changed in DST, but this isn't one of them. If you're using stones, the only reason to equip an item with insulation is because your stone has/is about to turn gray, to keep your temperature from plummeting/skyrocketing before you can charge it up again.

5 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

I don't think giving any amount of slots is gonna make anyone start using body slot items instead of a backpack...

Plus how would that even work? You can't put backpacks in your inventory. So if body slot items gave you slots like a backpack, you wouldn't be able to carry them in your inventory either and only be able to wear them in a body slot? To me that'd be an awful change. 

Carryable containers already exist.

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8 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

No actually, a rider beefalo is faster than a character without a speed bonus even with a magi luminescence, (and yes that includes while followinng roads) also they do not require any upkeep once they are fully tamed. They allow for you to have a chest slot free for a backpack, or seasonal clothing, or a belt of hunger if you so choose. Speed boosts arent that useful past a certain point when it comes to combat, so you could always just hop off of the beefalo for minor fights, or more logically, just keep a magi to put on when you get there. The only downside to a beefalo is having to tame it originally, but honestly if you’re playing “optimally” you probably half tamed one when you put the statues in place.

 

but then again, you wearing a magi is really just a crutch, you should get better at the game and optimize taming a beefalo and getting a gossamer saddle ;p

A beefalo doesn't glow in the dark (which means you need an extra slot for lantern/miner, an extra slot for bulbs plus the slot for bell), you can't fight on it well, you pick things up slower, you can't set trees on fire from it, you can't access containers from it, you can't work or fight from it and you must always micromanage it because once it's dead, it's dead and you lost it forever. And you have to keep rebuilding salt licks because they wear off fast. And it poops all over the place which is horrible.

 

Yes a glossamer saddle rider is nice very late game thing but that's about it.

 

But the discussion was around chest slots on their own, not with beefalos.

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13 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

what

The thermal circuit and refrigerant circuit protect WX for literally 3 out of 4 seasons, meaning he only needs to worry about rain. That's why he's one of the better survivors for the "mega base and chill"-playstyle, amongst all his other benefits of course.

Wurt obviously ignores rain so you get to free up your head slot for another season, essentially doubling the overall time it's free. She also has countless other benefits and minimal downsides.

Again, the point is that people would rather switch characters to deal with seasons than have to use body slot clothing. And they're switching characters precisely so they get even more storage/available gear slots at a given time. So this argument of "inventory management" being the endgame solution just doesn't hold up. The best players play in a way that maximizes the slots they have available, not by forcing themselves to make do with less. Doesn't mean they don't also have good inventory management, but it's not a good argument in this discussion.

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3 hours ago, EighteenXVIII said:

 

Wurt obviously ignores rain so you get to free up your head slot for another season, essentially doubling the overall time it's free. She also has countless other benefits and minimal downsides.

 

as long as you hold a sunfish in your inventory for the first half of spring that is(thermal stone also works, i guess, but at this point using rain insulation might be preferable to some, considering you need to heat it up constantly)

still a nice little perk for multiplayer, but for me personally, Frog neutrality is more impactful of a spring perk(i hate frog rains as other characters) 

Wurt does indeed has some good alternatives for overcoming seasons though (for example, sun and ice fish. can be used by everyone, preferably with an insulated pack, but Wurt gets much more time before switching out the fish, making them more convinent than other options, unless you're going for a long trip in caves i guess(but then you wouldn't really need ice fish anyway, and iirc in winter fish dies slower due to food spoiling mechanics(unless it was changed) so you'll have around 5 days which is usually more than enough)). 

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5 hours ago, EighteenXVIII said:

Wurt obviously ignores rain

Not really no she can't completely ignore rain. She still needs anti wetness or thermal gear during rain.

Cause she freezes very easily during rain when wet. She only stops freezing during rain like after 10 days into Spring (so nearing Summer) and during Summer obviously (tho rain in summer is not common)

In Autumn its even worse she can start freezing as soon as 5 days into first Autumn if it rains that early.

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I agree that a lot of body slot items are underused and underappreciated even though the higher-end ones' benefits are on par with backpacks or better (though not every piece of chest clothing can say that; there's a reason nobody uses the Summer Frest), but also that it would throw the game balance out of whack if you no longer had to deal with the tradeoff of armor vs amulet vs weather protection vs extra inventory space, and that Klei isn't terribly likely to change that after balancing the game around the current system for nine years. I've used the extra equip slots mod while playing with friends and it's convenient but I don't think adding it to the base game would be that good of an idea.

Some of the arguments in this thread are kind of ridiculous though. If it was added it wouldn't "kill the game" or make winter and summer trivial, neither backpacks nor seasonal gear are so OP that it would completely break the game to be able to use them simultaneously, but saying backpacks aren't useful and you don't need more inventory space if you have good inventory management is going too far in the other direction. Why would anyone go out of their way to get a Krampus sack if inventory space wasn't valuable?

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On 5/17/2022 at 9:17 AM, Mysterious box said:

Personally I don't think extra equip slots is a good idea but I do think either seasonal bodyslots need buffed or seasonal hats need nerfed simply because even if you ignore backpacks there's just much better non seasonal body slot items with the hibernation being the most useful of the bodyslot seasonal items in my opinion. Seasonal body slot items aren't bad tho I'm not saying that there's just not much incentive to use them over their often superior hat variants even less so with the body slot alternatives.

Every time there's a discussion about body slot items people say head slot items are better so body slot sucks. Head slot items are so good that apparently you don't want to actually be able to wear them since you're forcing so many different things to need to be on your head.

Other than the fact that body clothes stack with head clothes (since just a stone or 1 piece of clothing is pretty short) body clothes let you wear a tam, the cheapest armor in the game, two different light sources, and various other hats.

When body and hats are identical (if not having body be superior) why would the hats need to be nerfed?

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