Why all the Nerfs and Grind?

[Lumine04]

6 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

But you know who's never getting a nerf? Wanda! Arguably the most powerful character in the entire game since she was introduced. Not a huge benefit early game, however the Alarming Clock very early on in and of itself is nothing to scoff at. And of course mid to late game she can just teleport to execute anything in her path even quicker. I don't expect characters to become on par with Wanda but at least really darn close! She is fun because of the game mechanics she has, WX was too until this massive nerf. I don't agree that the change was good with people who say it was, just because it introduced a somewhat interesting mechanic of modules. Being able to absolutely break 1 or 2 aspects of the game if you play well with a character is a massive part of what makes it fun to play as the character. Some may even argue that characters as powerful as Wortox are not all that useful long term, and this is a character that can periodically teleport, has an easy way to heal and gain hunger all in one! If you continue nerfing characters further on to this degree, I don't see what point there is to playing the game.

Well Wanda is a very ambitious character with a health system that no matter what most say, is more punishing then any other character. She also costs money, and this attributes to her extremely unique playstyle and abilities which IS fair. No character are getting nerfed, none of them are bad except for Wes and Maxwell. Also, are you seriously telling me permanent night vision a 75% speed boost is not good?! Really... 

6 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

It's always lack of specific types of polish that really turn excellent gameplay mechanics into a grind even when you rework them and if the long grind in the game is set by design so we have to spend hundreds of hours to get anywhere continuously with no ways to make it faster, instead of you looking for ways to mitigate that as much as possible, then I don't think there's much respect left for me for Klei. Oxygen Not Included does things almost perfectly yet again we see grind halt in it, and at no point is taking out the grind of waiting for building a 20x20 setup mid to late game for you a priority (such as mech having suits for dupes that would allow them to carry much more and build faster). Some basic buildings like tempshift plates, insulated tiles and for some odd reason the critter feeder take forever for a duplicant to construct despite having high skill in doing so

What catches my eye here is your comparing ONI to DST, two completely different game and game genres. Also, what grind? The only grind I can think of is the fact that you have to wait for specific seasons to get certain things. It also should be noted, and Im not ignoring people who play solo, this game is meant to be played with other people to accomplish tasks!

6 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

In DST in mid, late and even END game:

* Farming crops takes forever and you have to do way too much farming to get a decent yield (you removed Applied Horticulture, there are no automated ways to till or water crops, you can only have one fruitfly in the world and it's slow).

* Preparing for a boss takes forever because so many things have extremely low durability (why the hell do I need more than one ice staff for a full boss fight like Crab King in the first place? It's all so I have to grind to collect gems and other resources to craft it, there is no other reason).

* Getting some resources for fair bit of base construction takes forever (anything that requires boards is especially annoying to get through with the dozens, if not hundreds of trees you need to cut down, even if you just want to make a dozen chests to put stuff in as opposed to dropping garbage on the floor).

*From seed to grown, no care but watering, it takes 5 days. You can also grow nine crops per plot. Resources required are nothing more than 4 boards, 2 rope, and a pond (or ice). On your off time, you can learn and and reap a chestful of crops compared to the old seed and spam poop method. You also have the availability to grow food in both summer AND winter! How are you complaining. I admit, it took me a lot of time to figure out how the new system works, but there is a good post here that explains it simply that Ill be happy to send to you.

*Dang bro, you gotta prepare for a boss?! Thats crazy. Tell me, you need to gems to fight a gem boss like crabking...holy crap. Blue gems are not even that hard to get, all you to do is kill ice hounds but I bet you turned them off in the difficulty settings. Ill admit you picked a good boss to bash because yes, crabking is a flawed boss but you dont even have to fight him + nobody likes his drops so...just dont. Klei will fix crabking eventually.

*I disagree with that. My group can make a mad good looking base by winter and still have enough stuff to make the necessities. Do you have to spend a whole day chopping wood. Yes and? Once you make the chest amount you want your done with that. 

Also you played for 200 hours and havnt beat? No offense, but my friend that Im teaching has already gotten to ancient guardian by day 50 which considering her newcoming is quite impressive. But I know everyone is built different. 

Finally...NOBODY SPENDS 10 HOURS GETTING GRASS! WHAT ARE YOU DOING THAT REQUIRES SO MUCH GRASSSSS???

Hope I didnt sound mean, but I lived replying to posts like this regarding any game. Much less this joy of a survival game that I love and hold dear (:

 

8 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

Some of the Wanda defense here is ridiculous though, some people just continue to flat out refuse to admit she's leagues above the rest of the cast even though it's straight up cold hard fact.

Oh she is above the other players. But do you know why theres still a majority of people who dont play her. Well A, she costs money but B, she isnt my and many other people's playstyle.

And overpowered characters in a game of this nature, doesnt make sense to complain about. Underpowered? Yes pop off.

 

[GelatinousCube]

9 minutes ago, Lumine04 said:

 

And overpowered characters in a game of this nature, doesnt make sense to complain about. Underpowered? Yes pop off.

When klei are balancing and bringing the other powerhouses more in line with others I think it's definitely valid. 

Any one who mains say Willow, Winona, Maxwell and some of the other weaker choices must feel bad there's such a beast on the roster. I know I would.

I get that it's not PvP so obviously far less of a concern than it would be in other games and formats.

13 minutes ago, Lumine04 said:

She also costs money, and this attributes to her extremely unique playstyle and abilities which IS fair

The other buyable characters aren't on her level so I don't understand this reasoning.

7 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

 

The Lazy Forager for example still can't be refueled with nightmare fuel, despite the fact that pretty much everyone agrees that in every conceivable aspect it should be a thing, you know it would make a big difference, but you've done nothing with it for a very long time and I suspiciously wonder why.

I personally don't get the need/demand for Forager to be refuelable at all. 

It's not necessary in almost any situation and is purely quality of life. Also it's not that expensive, late game when it's most useful in crazy farm setups and whatnot you can make a ton of them with ruins reset. 

I mean don't get me wrong it'd be nice to be able to refuel it but I don't think it's as necessary a change as many others do. Just make a bunch of them?

Gives you more reason and incentive to reset ruins and to visit pseudo science to get more when you run low.

[Lumine04]

1 minute ago, GelatinousCube said:

When klei are balancing and bringing the other powerhouses more in line with others I think it's definitely valid. 

Any one who mains say Willow, Winona, Maxwell and some of the other weaker choices must feel bad there's such a beast on the roster. I know I would.

I get that it's not PvP so obviously far less of a concern than it would be in other games and formats.

The point Im making is every character suits a playstyle. My brother will never hop off willow cause he likes something fighting shadow creatures for him and enjoys the aesthetic and utility of the lighter.

People who say webber is worse than wurt is biased. My friend plays webber cause he enjoys befriending spiders and always manages to solo bosses with the help of nurse spiders. Nothing like that is offered with wurt and he finds it much more time consuming to establish an army. Again its about playstyle not whos better.

Then again my own thought process could be flawed who knows...

 

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, GelatinousCube said:

Some of the Wanda defense here is ridiculous though, some people just continue to flat out refuse to admit she's leagues above the rest of the cast even though it's straight up cold hard fact.

been like 6 months since I bought wanda and I'm still waiting for that moment when I say "man I wish I was playing wanda rn"

the forums promised me a broken op character that would invalidate the rest of the cast, I got scammed smh

[Lumine04]

12 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

been like 6 months since I bought wanda and I'm still waiting for that moment when I say "man I wish I was playing wanda rn"

the forums promised me a broken op character that would invalidate the rest of the cast, I got scammed smh

Same situation here, unique ≠ overpowered 

This is because, Ill say it again, playstyle. Doesnt matter how overpowered a character may be, if their cool in your eyes and fit your needs you'll play them over everyone else.

[HowlVoid]

22 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

been like 6 months since I bought wanda and I'm still waiting for that moment when I say "man I wish I was playing wanda rn"

the forums promised me a broken op character that would invalidate the rest of the cast, I got scammed smh

Who knows Mr. Speedrunner, maybe if your worlds lasted more than a day or two you might've appreciated Wanda more. :P

[Dextops]

2 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Who knows Mr. Speedrunner, maybe if your worlds lasted more than a day or two you might've appreciated Wanda more. :P

[Guille6785]

19 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Who knows Mr. Speedrunner, maybe if your worlds lasted more than a day or two you might've appreciated Wanda more if wanda was actually good for speedrunning

ftfy

this is why you haven't reached 3.0 reputation/posts ratio

[hhh2]

hang on let me find my funny reaction image to post about the bickering in this thread

[HowlVoid]

8 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

ftfy

this is why you haven't reached 3.0 reputation/posts ratio

Too far man, too far.

[Lumine04]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Who knows Mr. Speedrunner, maybe if your worlds lasted more than a day or two you might've appreciated Wanda more. :P

Why so rude to him, assuming isnt fun

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Agree on Wanda and also not a big fan of the WX rework but disagree on pretty much everything else though.

Some of the Wanda defense here is ridiculous though, some people just continue to flat out refuse to admit she's leagues above the rest of the cast even though it's straight up cold hard fact.

As much as I don't think other characters should be on her level she certainly needs a nerf and I can understand the frustration of other characters being balanced while she exists in her current state. 

The only situation Wanda is better than everyone else is the situation where it doesn't matter who you are because no character, including Wanda, actually accomplishes anything useful. You've already done everything so it doesn't really matter that you can teleport to the things you've already done.

[Mike23Ua]

I don’t agree with any of your complaints, every game is a “grind” if you want to get the most out of them.. in fact- I officially challenge you to get all the achievements in all 3 of the Batman Arkham games, (I have) the reason I’m specifically picking these games is because in addition to needing to string together a 400 hit combo without using any gadgets and never getting hit, there’s also an achievement where you will need to visit and talk to a criminal on every real world Holiday of the year.

If you love the game though: the “Grind” is what makes it fun, the only legit complaint I have with the “Grind” is when it is UNFUN or it takes way too long to actually enjoy- this is crucial if you only have a limited amount of time to play (Ex if you can only gather your friends up for 30 minutes to an hour of gameplay)

I would say the Average Xbox DST public servers don’t even make it through the entire 4 seasons of the game- possibly because it takes literal hours to experience it all and by then- people are going to bed for school/work.. So what I’ve noticed happens most often is I’ll join a world, the world only lives for as long as the host is playing & then I never see that world again..

This is the only area where I find validity within your complaints- Somethings DO Indeed take too long to do, (such as activating the Moonstorm) Most people are never going to actually reach the point to experience that.. & I personally would have just preferred it to be a World Gen setting I could toggle on/off.

I also think it’s time Klei considers bringing their bosses down a peg or two- Read above where I said getting your friends together for 30 minutes to an Hour May be all the time you have to play together..

This in my opinion causes more “Harm” to the game then it does good- Because most my friends say the would love to experience X event or fight Y boss.. but they hate how long it takes to do it. Which is sad.. because bosses have unique gameplay mechanics and is additional content those players could enjoy.

In addition to this: you can now toggle active every special event in DST to remain active at all times: this means that things like Bundling Wraps & Dragonfly Loot are now just given to the player for Free without needing to fight the associated bosses.

So the TL:DR- Most people would prefer easier, shorter fights with said bosses since they can literally get their drops from holiday events/sunken treasure chests anyway now.

And as far as WX78’s rework goes- it’s nowhere near as Grindy as needing to spend forever setting up items/resources/traps etc to fight a raid boss.

WX78’s changes (once you’ve figured them out) should take you about 5 minutes to unlock the circuits you most want to use..

Bosses on the other hand- even if you’ve figured those out will take hours to prep for, or alternatively.. you can just gather a group of friends all pick Wolfgang/Wendy/Wanda and laugh as you quickly destroy the boss

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Lumine04 said:

Why so rude to him, assuming isnt fun

Nah, me and guille bully each other all the time.

Also it's not much of an insult, he is literally is a speedrunner who kills bosses on day 1.

Not that he only lasts a day surviving, nothing like that.

Guille is a world star.

[minespatch]

12 hours ago, yourAnty said:

forums will cry, no matter what.

[dois raios]

i agree, wx receive a nerf, he looked powerful at first, but when i played the beta and compared before and after, i felt he had more power before the rework , I understand that you needed a telelocator staff for using his perks (or wicker, or being stroke by a lightning in spring), and now i dont need anything to use their powers, but now his lack of options is not that good, instead of using ALL their perks at once, I have to choose only SOME perks, if u stop and think, before WX had 3 super-acceleration circuits, 1 thermal circuit and ilumiation circuit, and the circuits that increase their base status by default, now u have to choose between these (the one's that were default) and other circuits that were implemented, its kinda unfair, i am grateful that i am not a wx main, because i would be sad if my main character had this huge nerf, if he only had more plugs, dont even care if klei put his base stats at 75 each, just give him more plugs, what the point on having 6 slots if the good circuits uses 2 to 3 plugs. You will be able to use only 3 or 2 cirucits at the same time. Sorry if i expressed myself in a way that offended anyone, i am not secure about my english, read this as my opinion about the subject.

[Lumine04]

17 minutes ago, dois raios said:

i agree, wx receive a nerf, he looked powerful at first, but when i played the beta and compared before and after, i felt he had more power before the rework , I understand that you needed a telelocator staff for using his perks (or wicker, or being stroke by a lightning in spring), and now i dont need anything to use their powers, but now his lack of options is not that good, instead of using ALL their perks at once, I have to choose only SOME perks, if u stop and think, before WX had 3 super-acceleration circuits, 1 thermal circuit and ilumiation circuit, and the circuits that increase their base status by default, now u have to choose between these (the one's that were default) and other circuits that were implemented, its kinda unfair, i am grateful that i am not a wx main, because i would be sad if my main character had this huge nerf, if he only had more plugs, dont even care if klei put his base stats at 75 each, just give him more plugs, what the point on having 6 slots if the good circuits uses 2 to 3 plugs. You will be able to use only 3 or 2 cirucits at the same time. Sorry if i expressed myself in a way that offended anyone, i am not secure about my english, read this as my opinion about the subject.

Again, permanent speed boost and infinite moggles. Also what about all the people who play WX-78 solo or have friends who all dont want to play wickerbottom?

By the way its 1-4 plugs. I still dont see how this is a nerf. Could someone convince me otherwise if they agree with this quote.

[dois raios]

I wrote a huge text to answer you but while i was writing i also had time to think about what you said, and you are right, wx is fine right now with the rework, i will not post what i wrote, but i feel bad, i spend so much time writing and translating ;-;  anyway, i still hope wx get a seventh slot, i am seriously considering playing more as wx if they get a seventh slot, if not, its is not a problem, i have wanda.

[Lumine04]

4 minutes ago, dois raios said:

I wrote a huge text to answer you but while i was writing i also had time to think about what you said, and you are right, wx is fine right now with the rework, i will not post what i wrote, but i feel bad, i spend so much time writing and translating ;-;  anyway, i still hope wx get a seventh slot, i am seriously considering playing more as wx if they get a seventh slot, if not, its is not a problem, i have wanda.

Nooo I would of love to read it. You could of put the edit saying wx is fine after ;-;

[00petar00]

51 minutes ago, Lumine04 said:

Again, permanent speed boost and infinite moggles. Also what about all the people who play WX-78 solo or have friends who all dont want to play wickerbottom?

By the way its 1-4 plugs. I still dont see how this is a nerf. Could someone convince me otherwise if they agree with this quote.

The answer isn't simple yes or no when it comes to whether WX-78 has been buffed or nerfed because it depends on if you had a Wickerbottom or played solo, so it was situational but old WX-78 with Wickerbottom was much stronger, you would need over 15 circuits  to match, just by calculating everything he had if he was charged and max stats from gears.

He had permanent speed boost with Wickerbottom pretty much as he could get charged by her for a season easily at once and moggles are overkill, all you need is light to not die to Charlie and see enough around you.

WX-78 is in a better state now, when it comes to balance it doesn't make sense for a character to rely so much on another.

[Lumine04]

37 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

The answer isn't simple yes or no when it comes to whether WX-78 has been buffed or nerfed because it depends on if you had a Wickerbottom or played solo, so it was situational but old WX-78 with Wickerbottom was much stronger, you would need over 15 circuits  to match, just by calculating everything he had if he was charged and max stats from gears.

True, 600hp was overkill still in my opinion. It was situational too, but with all the bad rep wicker gets now you wouldnt find many wickerbottoms who would provide the boost even old-WX. The problem lied with the fact that WX had zero downsides, losing 1hp to a little rain was not something anybody complained about compared to nows damage system.

37 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

moggles are overkill, all you need is light to not die to Charlie and see enough around you.

 Its not about charlie, it never was, its about the visualization it provides over conventional light. I like seeing my whole screen over a handsized light circle, especially in caves. Plus you never need to refill it.

Overall, the change is more toward balancing and interactiveness over buffing. Which my WX main teammate appreciated greatly!

 

 

[Faintly Macabre]

If I played WX (don't, find him kind of boring to be honest) I'd abuse the heck out of the moggles circuit. No-limitations sight in the caves that takes up no equipment slots is ridiculously convenient.

[EighteenXVIII]

WX is busted for sure. Watch Jazzy's Games, he explains very well just how strong he is after his rework.

I can't speak about Wanda, haven't played her.

I agree that Klei is obsessed with making you chop down trees. If you want a proper boat with two masts, you're looking at:

- 4 Boards for the Think Tank

- 4 Boards for the Boat Kit

- 2 Boards for the Steering Wheel

- 2 Boards for the Anchor

- 6 Boards for two Masts (just one is too slow)

- Let's say 10 Boat Patches which isn't much. That's another 20 Logs.

(18 Boards x 4 Logs) + 20 Logs = 92 Logs or chopping down 23 full sized trees. And then as the noob you are, you sail into a bunch of Cookie Cutters who make you lose all of that work instantly.

Don't even talk about Chests. I have a mod that gives them 24 slots as opposed to 9. I still have to collect dozens of stacks of wood frequently. I even started using Glommer Goop as fuel to save on logs. I have 3x3 chest grids in a larger 3x3 grid. So 81 chests total, granted about half are empty for now. But considering I have a mod that almost triples their storage, and that you do need that many just for proper sorting not just raw space, it's honestly too expensive.

I think 9 slots doesn't cut it anymore with the current state of the game. It was workable back in 2013-2014 when you were a solo player with a small variety of items. Having the option to put all your gems, thulecite, fragments etc. in a single chest and still have room for overflowing stacks is so nice. Having to split similar items between chests makes me a sad DST player.

[Lumine04]

8 minutes ago, EighteenXVIII said:

I think 9 slots doesn't cut it anymore with the current state of the game. It was workable back in 2013-2014 when you were a solo player with a small variety of items. Having the option to put all your gems, thulecite, fragments etc. in a single chest and still have room for overflowing stacks is so nice. Having to split similar items between chests makes me a sad DST player.

Chests should be a 4x4 like the scale chest. And upgrade the scale chest to a 6x6 with the ability to being thermal stones to yellow (if they dont already do that, I dont waste scales on these things)

[Faintly Macabre]

Man. I haven't bothered to use a scaled chest since deciding they were unreasonably expensive waaay back in singleplayer RoG. I forgot how unreasonably large they are. Can we get a smaller variant of these things? The same space that 6 scaled chests takes up can be used by 12 regular chests, for 72 vs. 108 storage slots, respectively. If you don't want bigger chests for the looks of them this is just not a reasonable trade-off at all.