Why all the Nerfs and Grind?

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

She has extremely limited healing, with her only way to heal being a mere 20 HP equivelent that doesn't stack and is on a 2 minute cooldown. And on top of that, her getting benefits with old age means that you're going to constantly be teetering on the edge of death with no easy way to quickly get back from that.

Extremely limited is abit of a exaggeration a 2 minute CD isn't that long, you can have more than 1, most people don't tank, and proper armor allows(shadow)  for plenty of hits in old age

[Dextops]

29 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Extremely limited is abit of a exaggeration a 2 minute CD isn't that long, you can have more than 1, most people don't tank, and proper armor allows(shadow)  for plenty of hits in old age

is still a big tank on inventory space and missing out on the best healings in the game

[Lumine04]

43 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Extremely limited is abit of a exaggeration a 2 minute CD isn't that long, you can have more than 1, most people don't tank, and proper armor allows(shadow)  for plenty of hits in old age

Nope its extremely limited. Healing options are almost none with her, and your counterargument was "tanking and proper armor" but what about healing during the fight, or after, its just the watch. So yeah its extremely limited.

[Theukon-dos]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Extremely limited is abit of a exaggeration a 2 minute CD isn't that long, you can have more than 1, most people don't tank, and proper armor allows(shadow)  for plenty of hits in old age

4 inventory slots of 20 HP with 2 minute cooldown = 40 HP/Minute

1 inventory slot with 40 roasted potatoes restoring 20 HP each = 800 HP you can quaff down in about 30 seconds

So no, I think "extremely" is plenty accurate

[Mysterious box]

51 minutes ago, Lumine04 said:

but what about healing during the fight, or after, its just the watch.

I don't see the problem with just carrying more watches if your having trouble with healing in harder fights.

 

34 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

4 inventory slots of 20 HP with 2 minute cooldown = 40 HP/Minute

1 inventory slot with 40 roasted potatoes restoring 20 HP each = 800 HP you can quaff down in about 30 seconds

So no, I think "extremely" is plenty accurate

Ok now let me ask you this how many potatoes are you using per 2 minutes?

 

1 hour ago, Dextops said:

is still a big tank on inventory space and missing out on the best healings in the game

I could be wrong but I'd assume you don't need a ton of clocks outside of harder fights so in most cases 1-2 clocks should be fine and harder fights generally  don't walk up to you so why should inventory space matter in a prepared for fight?

[Theukon-dos]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't see the problem with just carrying more watches if your having trouble with healing in harder fights.

 

Ok now let me ask you this how many potatoes are you using per 2 minutes?

Depends. If I'm fighting a boss that I'm unfamiliar with and need to learn the kiting pattern of, I'd probably be going through my stockpile pretty damn quickly.

 

It's almost like the high-risk high-reward character favors players who have the high levels of skill necessary to make the most of her.

[Cheggf]

8 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't see the problem with just carrying more watches if your having trouble with healing in harder fights.

 

Ok now let me ask you this how many potatoes are you using per 2 minutes?

 

I could be wrong but I'd assume you don't need a ton of clocks outside of harder fights so in most cases 1-2 clocks should be fine and harder fights generally  don't walk up to you so why should inventory space matter in a prepared for fight?

They could make it so the only way Wanda heals is eating thulecite for 1hp each and you guys would be like "all you need to do is not get hit, she has no downside. Honestly eating thulecite is more of an upside because I always have too much of it anyways."

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Cheggf said:

They could make it so the only way Wanda heals is eating thulecite for 1hp each and you guys would be like "all you need to do is not get hit, she has no downside. Honestly eating thulecite is more of an upside because I always have too much of it anyways."

Never said she had no downside nor am I saying she needs nerfed I just don't see her being much harder than the average survivor.

 

6 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Depends. If I'm fighting a boss that I'm unfamiliar with and need to learn the kiting pattern of, I'd probably be going through my stockpile pretty damn quickly.

 

It's almost like the high-risk high-reward character favors players who have the high levels of skill necessary to make the most of her.

I mean isn't learning the kitting pattern the base requirement for boss fights tho? I'm not sure that's considered a high level skill I mean people have to learn the kitting pattern to a spider when they start out does that make fighting a spider a high level skill? Granted some bosses are a lot more difficult than others but at that point I feel the player trying to learn the boss would have died regardless of character.

[Lumine04]

14 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Ok now let me ask you this how many potatoes are you using per 2 minutes?

But let me ask you, how much can go wrong in a fight in two minutes? Especially in fights like Ancient Fuel Weaver, where getting hit multiple times in quick succession is a guarantee.

Also your missing the point, we say its extremely limited cause she can only use her watch. We're not saying its a bad way of healing, we're saying the unavailable alternatives are better and cheaper.

 

[Mysterious box]

36 minutes ago, Lumine04 said:

But let me ask you, how much can go wrong in a fight in two minutes? Especially in fights like Ancient Fuel Weaver, where getting hit multiple times in quick succession is a guarantee.

Also your missing the point, we say its extremely limited cause she can only use her watch. We're not saying its a bad way of healing, we're saying the unavailable alternatives are better and cheaper.

 

A lot can go wrong in 2 minutes but again this applies to every character is Wanda abit less prepared for things to go very wrong yes but it's not like there aren't solutions to emergency situations like that for her either(ones I'm sure most people won't use but still)

It kinda feels like we lose our creativity when it comes to Wanda for some reason.

[Theukon-dos]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean isn't learning the kitting pattern the base requirement for boss fights tho? I'm not sure that's considered a high level skill I mean people have to learn the kitting pattern to a spider when they start out does that make fighting a spider a high level skill? Granted some bosses are a lot more difficult than others but at that point I feel the player trying to learn the boss would have died regardless of character.

Yes, but there's still a difference between "Being able to Kite" and "being able to Kite reliably". And Wanda's going to struggle a lot more in that first part.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

Yes, but there's still a difference between "Being able to Kite" and "being able to Kite reliably". And Wanda's going to struggle a lot more in that first part.

And in this situation Wanda always has the option of setting up multiple backpacks full of ageless watches she can go to for healing in the fight arena which is a simple solution I'm confused people never suggest this in these situations.

[Faintly Macabre]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

And in this situation Wanda always has the option of setting up multiple backpacks full of ageless watches she can go to for healing in the fight arena which is a simple solution I'm confused people never suggest this in these situations.

Probably because it sounds awful and unfun.

[Lumine04]

Just now, Faintly Macabre said:

Probably because it sounds awful and unfun.

True, yet its always the unfun things that are the most practical in any game

[Cheggf]

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

And in this situation Wanda always has the option of setting up multiple backpacks full of ageless watches she can go to for healing in the fight arena which is a simple solution I'm confused people never suggest this in these situations.

This is unironically just as ridiculous as that eating thulecite thing I joked about. How can you seriously sit there with a straight face and say that Wanda needing to gather all the materials to make a million watches, making multiple backpacks on the floor which you need to keep switching between during the fight and then either leave there as litter or carry them around one by one is a simple solution and isn't noticeably harder? That is literally the single hardest and most impactful thing any character can need to do by far. People think Warly is hard because he needs to either use nonfood healing or maybe make like 3 different dishes and you are saying that making MULTIPLE BACKPACKS FULL OF WATCHES is nothing.

[Cheggf]

2 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Just to play Devil's Advocate, I will point out that you could just dis-assemble all of the watches with the clockmaker's tools, and then bring over teh raw materials for both the watches and the backpack in one trip. But the concept is still pretty stupid.

I remembered you could do that and edited the comment to change it to littering backpacks on the floor and making several new ones for every fight, but you saw the comment too quickly.

[Theukon-dos]

Just now, Cheggf said:

I remembered you could do that and edited the comment to change it to littering backpacks on the floor and making several new ones for every fight, but you saw the comment too quickly.

[Mysterious box]

26 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

This is unironically just as ridiculous as that eating thulecite thing I joked about. How can you seriously sit there with a straight face and say that Wanda needing to gather all the materials to make a million watches, making multiple backpacks on the floor which you need to keep switching between during the fight and then either leave there as litter or carry them around one by one is a simple solution and isn't noticeably harder? That is literally the single hardest and most impactful thing any character can need to do by far. People think Warly is hard because he needs to either use nonfood healing or maybe make like 3 different dishes and you are saying that making MULTIPLE BACKPACKS FULL OF WATCHES is nothing.

This was made under the assumption the player was really bad at kiting the boss which seems to be the hill everyone keeps choosing to die on even 1 backpack should be more than enough for someone to have a oh crap button if something goes really wrong in the of 2 minutes or am I wrong?

[Theukon-dos]

25 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This was made under the assumption the player was really bad at kiting the boss which seems to be the hill everyone keeps choosing to die on even 1 backpack should be more than enough for someone to have a oh crap button if something goes really wrong in the of 2 minutes or am I wrong?

See. You could do that. Or you could just play someone who isn't Wanda and use stackable healing items.

 

Like, just take a step back and look at what you're actually saying here. "Wanda's time mechanic isn't actually hard! Just spend hours farming time pieces, marble chunks, and red gems in order to stuff a backpack full of healing items to get the same effect as any other character spending a few days potato farming!"

 

If you need to spend so long working around a downside, than the downside is doing it's job.

[Mysterious box]

22 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

See. You could do that. Or you could just play someone who isn't Wanda and use stackable healing items.

 

Like, just take a step back and look at what you're actually saying here. "Wanda's time mechanic isn't actually hard! Just spend hours farming time pieces, marble chunks, and red gems in order to stuff a backpack full of healing items to get the same effect as any other character spending a few days potato farming!"

 

If you need to spend so long working around a downside, than the downside is doing it's job.

None of those things take hours or are they really needed it was a point brought up because you keep making it seem like the average player challenges end game bosses without knowing how to kite and that there's absolutely nothing they can do if something goes wrong when cds reset in just 2 mintues and there's no continued resource sink it's a exaggeration plain and simple but hey let's take your example why would anyone play Walter, Wormwood or Warly I mean again it's alot easier to handle fights without dealing with their character specific downsides no? Guess they also all count as high skill characters am I right?

[Mx-Pain]

Thanks god you are not tied to play with other ppl and you can play with any character you like.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

this is starting to feel like a parody

[kliveran]

Average New Player posting cringe

[Cloakingsumo198]

Wait a second this thread wasn't originally about Wanda...

Spoiler

Off-topic wandafication

 

[Lumine04]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

"Everything they said about Wandas healing"

 

3 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

"Everything they said about Wandas healing"

Have you two stopped to consider...that you're both right.