Revision Winona Fund

[Notecja]

Topic about Wolfgang getting fixing his rework made me think about Winona too... In light of recent reworks she is pretty underwhelming, as other characters are reciving lots of different perks and skills. We could share some ideas how she could be improved.
I am pretty sure they will not fit her into this update, so we can have quite a lot time for more or less civilised debate. Just avoid repeating thins like "swapping character" and any form of trolling (if there appears a troll, don't reply to them).
She is a great character, a hard worker, a handygirl, skilled so she could just tape back portal to be working, but yet she is the most punished character for hard work.

So far there are ideas I remember from forum and other discussions:
> Allow her to fix burned structures (she could use trusty tape and half of materials, as other half is usually returned with hammering). Idea is just to avoid deconstructing half of area to place again few things.
> Allow her to pack/unpack her structures, so she could actually use them around instead having everything stationary.
> Suggested by friend: allow her to remove every gem which is in use by G.E.M.erator without hammer.
> Make her downside less annoying. Maybe remove cost hunger to craft - usually you don't craft in bulk, but mostly single items, like tools, armours. Note: trading also cost her hunger(!). OR remove her slowdown when she is hungry, but honestly I would prefer the first option, as she just complains... a lot. Too much.
> Since she likes hard work, how about is she could hammer rocks faster, or pick grass/twigs faster? Just not necessary wood, as there are few characters that can do wood... (and ye, when hungry she can be slower).

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i would also love if she gets more tools, is what i liked about DS wagstaff

Spoiler

she needs this hammer

 

[Mantispidae]

Poor Winona... Shes got a great personality but she did get the short end of the DST stick.

I'd love to see them do fun things with her, shes an engineer, let her make cool contraptions. Things like the Wagstaff thumper as a budget bearger and so on, maybe even let her upgrade/reinforce existing tools to give them perks or more durability. Hell, just let her make a roomba or something to pick up junk from autofarms. I'd love to see a character more based around resources and bases than combat and whatnot.

With a character themed largely around what she makes vs. what she does herself, I don't know how much you could truely remove her "build and swap" status, but I def think at bare minimum Winona could be a character that offers some cool gadgets to play with if you pick her rather than just big machines you put down in one spot.

[SinancoTheBest]

I really hope she is given the ability to fix burnt structures with her tapes it'd be a pretty fitting little addition.

Also hope she's given a giant plant generator. She could also benefit a lot from new structures such as a heat lamp for plants that'd let them grow at dark.

[UnknowX]

Check this ideas

Winona QOL/ adjust: an interesting character who has struggle to find her true calling/ defining characteristic to make her truly appealing. And now she is the engineer/builder of the group. But still lacks some defining characteristics to make people want to keep playing with her, instead of just switching from her after building her unique crafts, so I think she needs a few changes to round her up.

- It's a skilled builder: a few tweaks to make it more interesting. At 80-100% hunger she would have speed crafting like she does now (0,5 seconds per craft). At 50-79% hunger her crafting speed would be normal, but this lack of efficiency would cost her -5 sanity per craft. At 0-49% hunger, she would craft slower than normal, and this would depress her to the point of  draining her sanity by -10 per craft.

- Gets one free hit from the dark: stays the same

- has a negative relation with fire: based on some of her quote lines, she hates fire and the destruction it causes it causes. So as a new down side for her, when structures (natural resources like trees or saplings don't count) caught fire near her, her sanity would drop by -10 a minute by each structure in flames (smoldering doesn't count). Burnt structures have a similar effect, so get rid of them quickly

- Invents her own gadgets: here is where she should shine the most. Some of her gadgets need some improvement, and other gadgets to make her more appealing to other players.

~ trusty tape (1 silk + 3 cut grass): her defining craft, currently it works as a item for her other crafts and one use sewing kit, but cheaper and more resource efficient. It now can also be used to stop leaks on boats. I think it should get some new uses exclusive to Winona, like been able to repair armor, weapons and tools durability (non magical of course) with tape and then they would be given the "taped" tag. This would restore items to 100% once. Also, fixing things with her trusty tape would give her +5 sanity per taped item.

~ Gold wires (2 gold + 1 tape): this would be a new craft for her, and one of the new items to make/ improve some of her new crafts. As a bonus, it can also be used to fix broken clockworks.

~ Winona's road (2 cut stone + 2 gold wires + 2 boards): it's a turf that work like cobblestones (gives same speed boost and has same priority placement) but also has the benefit of conducting electricity from both generators, allowing a single generator to power a higher area of devices.

~ Winona's Generator (1 tape + 2 logs + 2 nitre): works mostly the same, but changing the recipe to 2 gold wires + 2 boards + 2 nitre, also, you can turn it off to save energy (shown by unplugging one of the wires at the top). Now they atract lightning like lightning rods do, but will explode if hit it, so put a lightning rods around to protect from it.

~ Winona's G.E.M.eretor (1 tape + 2 boards + 2 electric doodad) works mostly the same, but changing the recipe to 3 gold wire + 2 boards + 2 electric doodad, also, you can turn it of by to save energy (shown by unplugging one of the wires at he top. Now they atract lightning like lightning rods do, but will explode if hit it, so put a lightning rods around to protect from it.

~ Winona's catapult (1 tape + 3 twigs + 15 rocks): an amazing structure, maybe too amazing actually. The only change I would make would be changing the recipe to 2 gears + 5 cut stone + 3 tape, to balance it out. Maybe even having to load the catapult with rocks stacks for them to work, 1 rocks = 5 shot, so a stack equals 200 shots. Not a bad deal huh?

~ Winona's spotlight (1 tape + 2 gold + 1 fireflies): let's face it, it's usefulness is quite limited since it only illuminates moving players. To change a little, first the recipe, now it's 1 lantern + 2 gold wires + 4 boards, second, the light radious includes the whole cone of light it produces and third it would have two modes; stationary (you cold move it and keep it in a fix position) and lookout (similar to what it is now, but would iluminate the fastest moving mob/ entity outside of a certain area of itself).

~ Winona's lamppost (1 lantern + 2 gold wires + 3 twigs): a stationary light source, similar to glow caps, but neads a generator to power it.

~ Winona's paddlewheels (5 boards + 2  electric doodad + 5 tape) an item that can be installed on a boat to allow movement and quick turns. But carefull with crashing at full speed, it could destroy your boat in one hit.
 

[Baark0]

51 minutes ago, Mantispidae said:

Poor Winona... Shes got a great personality but she did get the short end of the DST stick.
 

pretty sure she was the first rework so it kinda makes sense why she feels lackluster

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, Notecja said:

Allow her to fix burned structures (she could use trusty tape and half of materials, as other half is usually returned with hammering). Idea is just to avoid deconstructing half of area to place again few things.

I don't think a qol thing like that should be character specific. Anyone should be able to do it.

[Dr. Safety]

Honestly ever since someone (I believe it was @ShadowDuelist, if not I apologize) suggested it, the only change I think Winona needs is the ability to dismantle her engineering structures and hold them in her inventory like Warly's crockpots. That change alone would make Winona earn a spot on my list of mains. Being able to carry around a couple catapults and a generator, and set them up wherever she wants would be amazing for her. Makes her still appeal to people who want to pick and swap her for megabasing, but still give her some great interactions with the buildings should the player choose to stay as her.

[ShadowDuelist]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Honestly ever since someone (I believe it was @ShadowDuelist, if not I apologize) suggested it, the only change I think Winona needs is 

Just the fact that you liked and remembered my idea made my day ty!

[lakhnish]

4 hours ago, Notecja said:

Make her downside less annoying. Maybe remove cost hunger to craft

That feeling when this perk is done better on Wanda than on Winona KEKW

[Luxaezar]

I do like an idea of having a switch on/off for Winona's Generators, like the Ice Flingomatics (Too broken perhaps? I dunno I haven't played Winona that much but it kinda irks that I have to have resources at ready for the generators), was wondering why they don't have that kind of feature though.

[loopuleasa]

Some good ideas in this thread.

Since time is short, and the focus this patch was on WX rework and Wurt QoL I think changes to winona will only fit in another patch (as a re-rework, or a side-quest QoL touch-up)

 

My contributions to the winona ideas:

- Make winona be able to "strengthen" walls in a way with a new item (actively, lasting X minutes, so you don't switch her)

- Change Winona to be good standalone (right now she is a switch character, like Warly)

- Increase light radius of spotlight (like @Electroely's mod rework)

- Make spotlights AI target different people instead of all concentrating on one

- Winona gains sanity while building? (for uninterrupted mega-basing, to fit her builder role)

- Any new engineering type item would be nice (maybe something that uses frazzled wires?)

 

The ideas I like posted already:

- Winona working faster while hunger full

- Winona picking stuff faster while hunger full

- Turn generator on/off and take gems out of it

[BonesJrOfficial]

I find it actually incredible how when Winona was the first reworked character she was incredible. They have since not changed anything on her, and she's now mainly just a swap character. Just wild how much has changed by switching up other characters and having her remain the same.

I think she could have an infinite use Hammer much like Woodie has his axe Lucy? For starters.

[loopuleasa]

Just now, Bones Junior said:

snip

Yeah, the power creep in full effect.

 

Interesting hammer idea.

[Dr. Safety]

48 minutes ago, Bones Junior said:

I think she could have an infinite use Hammer much like Woodie has his axe Lucy? For starters.

Interesting idea... maybe she could also get more ingredients back when hammering with it, say like 75% rounding up. I don't think it is something that will make her too appealing to switch to, but it's a nifty perk that could be tacked on as well as some others.

[VouMorrer]

34 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Interesting idea... maybe she could also get more ingredients back when hammering with it, say like 75% rounding up. I don't think it is something that will make her too appealing to switch to, but it's a nifty perk that could be tacked on as well as some others.

is there any possibility this could be used to multiply resources? because if not then i liked the idea!

[ArubaroBeefalo]

15 minutes ago, VouMorrer said:

is there any possibility this could be used to multiply resources? because if not then i liked the idea!

green amulet cut resources used to craft to 50% and the hammer gives 75% of materials = 25% extra materials back

[VouMorrer]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

green amulet cut resources used to craft to 50% and the hammer gives 75% of materials = 25% extra materials back

ok, let me think a bit

i green amulet +hammer = 0.25*5(five uses of the amulet)= 1,25

i green amulet + geen staff = 0.5*5=3

multiplying resources using amulet+hammer is the same as multiplying amulet+staff. double the gems for double the gain.

BUT since it would round up, items that cost 2 would be crafted for1 and destroyed for 2 with the hammer. therefore, the hammer would substitute the green amulet in this case, saving 1 green gem. anything i missed?

[kilobit]

ok so just make her the engineer from tf2

[HowlVoid]

I think it was Klei who said that they didn't want to add an on/off button it would make them (generators) too powerful. Being able to move them might also give Klei the impression that the resource sink, that the generators are supposed to be, would be circumvented too easily. 

My suggestion is to give Winona a "mechanics proficiency" aura where there is less of a energy drain when she is present in a very large radius. This could also be expanded to where structures near her Regen HP faster, the houndious shoots faster, etc. This would mean Winona would need to be present.

A passive where the items she crafts are of a better quality than usual do to her experience crafting items. This could be an a random chance for items crafted by her to have between 100-110% durability and a rare chance for 110-120% durability. This would pair well with her faster crafting speed, the team could leave it to her to craft certain weapons, tools and armors. Though not significant or common enough that's it's worth switching to her for it. 

Finally, I'd add the ability for Winona to be able to fix certain weapons, armors and tools. Shadow equipment and hambat would be excluded for example, but those that are able would get a "taped" added to their item name ("taped" battle spear) and a small tape icon in the corner of the tools picture while in the inventory. I would say to only allow it while the item is below 50% and adds 20% durability but only once. I don't think anyone would save a ton of low durability equipment only to switcher to her and then try to use a bunch of equipment at 21-23 durability. This would mostly work only for Winona herself and in a team after battle and during battle with enough team communication. In a coordinated team people can drop there low percent equipment in a pile, Winona can repair it and it can be picked up again. Then maybe there can a shadow manipulator tier tape that requires shadowfuel and can fix shadow equipment. 

I think all of these perks would make a Winona more important if she constantly present. Switching in for every little repair would probably not be worth it.

[Cheggf]

8 hours ago, Bones Junior said:

I find it actually incredible how when Winona was the first reworked character she was incredible. They have since not changed anything on her, and she's now mainly just a swap character. Just wild how much has changed by switching up other characters and having her remain the same.

I think she could have an infinite use Hammer much like Woodie has his axe Lucy? For starters.

She has always been a swap character. She's just as amazing as she always was, but the part of her that's amazing is her structures which aren't related to her. Just like Warly is amazing but people on the forums really like to only think about perfectly optimal theoretical gameplay so they don't like him either and think there's an "issue" with both instead of an issue with their way of thinking or an issue with the celestial portal.

Also, didn't they change things on her? I thought she got two reworks. I might be misremembering from how long it's been. 

8 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

Yeah, the power creep in full effect.

Winona is the perfect example of power creep. A large independent and automatic DPS bonus that works regardless of what character you are for little cost. She was the first rework and she is the first (and one of the greatest) example of power creep.

And you guys are asking for more buffs to her still, while also complaining about power creep.

[LanOrhan]

On 3/18/2022 at 12:33 AM, UnknowX said:

~ Winona's paddlewheels (5 boards + 2  electric doodad + 5 tape) an item that can be installed on a boat to allow movement and quick turns. But carefull with crashing at full speed, it could destroy your boat in one hit.

I like this idea. A special interaction with boats is great, but this alone wouldn't change "switch to Winona, craft her machines and switch back" aspect.

[GrapeVruit]

I always thought Winona would be more interesting to me if she got more gadgets to play with instead of a spotlight and a catapult, or if we're being honest, a catapult. I've had a few ideas and while they might not balanced, I feel it's better to get ideas out there first and then tweak them later.

 

Winona's Toolbox: A small, portable red Toolbox that can store up to 4 items.

 

Winona's Speedpad: A small circular boost pad placed upon the ground that increases movement speed by 50% for 10 seconds depending on the direction you left the Speedpad. Stopping in place or moving in the opposite direction will cancel the effect. The Speedpad goes on a cooldown for 15 seconds. 

 

The Vacuum Pack 3000: A mechanical 8 slot backpack that is able to suck up any items that are left on the ground, similar to the lazy forager. However, the more slots that are filled within the Vacuum Pack, it will decrease the wearer's movement speed by 15%. If you're looking to vacuum up certain items, such as rocks or logs, you can socket said item into the Vacuum Pack's finder slot. 

 

Winona's Sprinkler: A small sprinkler that is able to douse fires and water plants, though it does have less range and takes a little longer to get to burning objects than a Flingomatic.

 

Winona's Marvelous Multitool: An automated multitool that acts as an axe, pickaxe, shovel and a hammer. Unlike regular tools, Winona's multitool requires fuel, such as nitre or gold in order to function, and will passively drain said fuel until the tool's durability reaches 0%. When out of fuel, the multitool can still be used, but it take a lot longer to get chores done, similar to how much work Wes does. This tool can only be used by Winona.

 

 

 

 

[kilobit]

On 3/17/2022 at 8:53 PM, Dr. Safety said:

the ability to dismantle her engineering structures and hold them in her inventory like Warly's crockpots.

If this were doable through craftable boxes which could also be used on non-Winona structures that would also be really cool

[Notecja]

Ah ye, One more thing about Winona I would love to be added. Purely cosmetic, but there now two characters who can see in darkness and always exist moggle users...

Animation of dodging Charlie ;_;