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Forum's Opinion on the Wendy rework.


This poll was made for the purpose of seeing people's opinions of the Wendy rework. Please answer honestly. Also I know I'm like more then a year late but I was curious.  

117 members have voted

  1. 1. Q.1: Did you play Wendy before her rework in some shape or form, for example playing her in DS.

  2. 2. Q.2: If you answered yes in the last question do you like the Wendy rework? And do you think Wendy is fun?

    • Yes. It is fun
    • Sort of. It is more fun then before.
    • Neutral. It isn't more or less fun then before.
    • Not really. It isn't more or less fun then before.
      0
    • No. It was more fun before the rework.
    • Answered No in the first question.
  3. 3. Q.3: If you answered no in Q.1 do you think Wendy is fun to play?

  4. 4. Q.4: Do you think the Wendy is a good character now?



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Abagail is a war criminal.

Anyways please let me now your thoughts about this poll by messaging me or voicing it in the replies.

Again, be respectful to your fellow human and respect their opinion even if it might be the "wrong" one.

Spoiler

Be aware of the Webber mains for they strike when you are most vulnerable. Pretty sure Sun Tzu said that.

 

Damn it I meant to answer Sort of in Q.4! How do I fail so bad!

Anyways while I think Wendy is good they still don't have a substantial downside, I'd suggest giving them a passive sanity drain whenever abagail isn't around, say of 2 sanity per minute. Oh and make the penalty for abagail dying much harsher, so if you go into a boss fight and you fail to take care of abagail, you would be punished with being left alone and left to fight the boss plus nightmare creatures.

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10 minutes ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

I'd suggest giving them a passive sanity drain whenever abagail isn't around, say of 2 sanity per minute

that would encourage taking more care of her and her -25% damage will have sense

anyways, i dont think klei should waste time on her. At most just delete her damage boost since it doesnt make sense, she always had -25% damage because abi deals damage, now she has damage boost+abi's damage

a cooperative perk because potato

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They did a great job on her thematically with the pipspooks, the treasure hunt, the flowers, ectoherbology potions, soothing/riling/desummoning changes, sisturn (one of the prettiest structures in the game), ghost neutrality etc. Her character feels fully realized.

disregarding Abigail’s defense debuff on enemies she’s probably one of the best refreshes. The petal debuff pushes her over the edge imo. Her .75 modifier is her only downside in exchange for the huge power that Abigail brings and with the petal debuff that downside is just flat out negated in a lot of situations. 

In addition to not adding the petal debuff they should’ve also lowered her HP I think, she’s a small frail kid after all. 

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8 minutes ago, Ohan said:

They did a great job on her thematically with the pipspooks, the treasure hunt, the flowers, ectoherbology potions, soothing/riling/desummoning changes, sisturn (one of the prettiest structures in the game), ghost neutrality etc. Her character feels fully realized

she is the best refresh we had so far

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It's perfect. Just better control over Abigail is the only thing I wanted and I got it. The shield is a great addition too, as it made her even better at dealing with crowds. I don't use potions very much (I think stockpiling healing potions for bosses is too much effort most of the time and worth it for only a couple bosses, namely bee queen and fuelweaver). The only other potion I use is the speed potion.

For me the petal debuff is actually not that important and not that easy to even take advantage of. Typically it's really hard to attack a boss with Abigail at the same time if you're kiting (even with the speed potion). You either have to tank together with Abigail or keep her in aggressive mode and kite normally (and risk her just dying). Sure, it's possible to take advantage of it against some bosses (antlion & crab king are incapable of dealing damage to her completely and dragonfly usually doesn't target her), but she still kinda sucks against most bosses (which is fine). For Klaus she is mostly detrimental. For dragonfly - sometimes if she enrages, Abigail will prevent the pan flute from calming her down, which may even ruin the fight.

I don't think she's overpowered. She's greatly convenient and perfect for farming a few mobs with AoE damage, dealing with hound attacks at any time, but overpowered? Nah.

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3 hours ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

[Wendy] still don't have a substantial downside

She actually has a few.

Abigail is very fragile when it comes to boss fights and certain mobs like rooks (normal, Shadow Rook t3, Ancient Guardian), which leads to either high risk of using Abigail in such fights (Fuelweaver, Celestial Champion all phases and phase 3 especially, etc.) or not using her at all (rooks, Toadstool/Misery Toadstool phase 3 and 4, etc.).

Another thing is that player needs to manage both Abigal and Wendy in contrast to just character to receive damage boost (effective 1.5x only with night damage elixir, which is not always optimal/viable choice), and coupled with the fact that Abigail is slower than Wendy causing the latter to land a some hits without buff (Bee Queen, Celestial Champion, Toadstool, etc.), it creates situations when Wendy player works harder just to be Wilson in some situations (for non-group enemies, for example, for Crab King claws or Celestial Champion p1 and 2, but there are more) or effectively trades skill of management for AoE support without net gain of damage. Which seems fair to me, since the more things to manage means the more things that can go wrong. Managing Abigail includes aggro mode, getting resources and spending time to farm elixirs, especially multiple spectral cure-alls, getting extra resources just to keep Abi alive like weather pains or magiluminescence, keeping in mind unsummoning timers (Dragonfly enrage, greater gestalt attack) to do it beforehand.

In some fights Abigail's help has significant disadvantages: she unfreezes Crab King, so fight becomes just as fast-paced as Fuelweaver and player has no time to reorganize, and causes Wendy player to use weather pains and tanking unnecessary hits in phase 3 Celestial Champion (so it's disadvantageous to fight CC p3 no matter of whether Abigail is summoned or not compared to other characters). Similar thing with Fuelweaver: in order to keep Abigail alive one has to tank, and even though tanking may be considered better option for this fight, there is still phase 1 when kiting is generally better than tanking. Also Abigail's movement and initial position is not consistent in this fight, which often leads to Fuelweaver eating extra wooven shadows, which besically negates extra damage Abi deals. Sure, one could use weather pain, but then Wendy has to manage all the usual stuff Wilson would + Abigail (including grinding 7-10 spectral cure alls). Klaus without cheese is also a fight where Abigail makes situation worse: not only there is a risk that she kills deers, but deers cast magical attacks on both Wendy and Abigail, which makes it harder to avoid temperature damage and effects of being set on fire/frozen, as well as blocks a direction of attack for Wendy even if she herself escaped magical attack; since Abigail takes some space, she often floats to the side where she takes unnecessary damage from deers and therefore Wendy has to use elixirs to keep her "alive", which is extra resources and time spent.

Abigail also can't handle charged volt goats in any shape or form, even if Wendy tanks for her just because Abi receives extra damage while she herself attacks goat that can't be mitigated or healed quickly enough even with spectral cure alls. And even if she could, imagine fully tanking goats and spending around 1 big heal for 2 goats. This is just poor resource managment and pure disadvantage.

In labyrynth or atrium there is a danger of Abigail triggering spider nests even if she just floats above (or below?) them, so one would either unsummon her, or constantly summon-unsummon and waste time and irl sanity.

Shadow creatures actually exist too, and while she fights usuall day-to-day shadows less often even without any sanity restoration means (which balances her spending more weapon durability on them), during nightmare phase nightmares attack in the same number as they would attack any other character, being spawner nightmare light, hammered pseudoscience station or mined thulecite statue, so Wendy is at clear disadvantage. And without Wendy's help (managment) Abigail can't kill other enemies (clockworks, debth worms) by herself, she would quickly die on her own if there are any of the mentioned nearby.

Finally, only bees, regular spiders, tentapillars and hound waves are a free win for Abigail. For frog rain Wendy still has to prepare beforehand at least 2 spectral cure-alls and constantly watch Abigail's health, as well as unsummoning her sometimes to give time to heal, i.e. still waste time on frog rain (although I admit that it's better than for other characters). For other mobs Wendy has to help, no afk here. After setting up bee farm one doesn't need to fight bees anymore, same for automatic silk farm, same for all tentapillars except 1 (or even 0 when atruim can be accessed via telepoof). I mean, it's advantages over other characters that don't have AoE, but later in the game they loose their significance. I think, AoE weapon for everyone would be a good solution to this gap early on (tail'o'three cats is a good candidate for buff).

I agree that penalty for loosing Abigail can be harsher, and a way to punish afk without affecting Wendy's full potential can be added (i.e. raising skill floor, keeping skill ceiling the same), but other than that she is fun for me to play as is.

Also distilled vengeance is useless and could use tweaks (not to add power to Wendy, but to add more fun).

In multiplayer setting there is also a disadvantage during Fuelweaver fight if there are too much people fighting: during cast of bone cage attack each player is hit with it and each bone cage has AoE damage effect besides trapping effect; trapped player won't take damage from their own cage (only from AoE of slam during the end of bone cage attack animation), however, if any entity is too close to sharp bones of the cage, it takes damage, in other words, should other player stay near Abigail during bone cage attack, she will die very quickly even with spectral cure-all applied.

Another disadvantage in multiplayer setting is ability of other players to kill Abigail even when pvp is "off", and Abigail won't retaliate; in fact, Wendy can't do absolutely anything about it other than keeping Abigail "alive" in the flower loosing majority of her upsides, and it won't cost anything to the troll.

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playing wendy is as if you would be afk

alsol her voice hurts my head, i hate extreme loud noise and super hight pitch sound, it starts hurting me

alsol wendy has no downsides, less damage gets removed thanks to the ghost, so she has no actual down side, alsol im sick of 3 or more wendys in 1 server, like, thats just stupid

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53 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

Facts.

Spoiler

snoop-dogg.gif.d4faa6b3922ae4c9d0ac31b06ea9bbb3.gif

I don't play follower characters because working with brain dead ai companions makes me wanna commit multiple war crimes.

So when Wendy got more options to have control over Abigail I rejoiced. The player having more command power of their subjects is great since it puts the agency in the players hand for when things go wrong.

Instead of just hoping that things go right and your followers don't mess up 

I think the power to command subjects should be strongest among wurt since she has literal "warriors" at her disposal.

But Wendy and Abigail are more like a dream tag team that are bouncing off of each other.

Abigail is strong but she can't do it alone and she won't always be able to help Wendy with everything.

Without Abigail Wendy is just a weaker character that takes less sanity damage.  It takes "puppeteering" to make the most of Abigail and I think that's fun.

Spoiler

I wish Bernie had some form of "puppeteering"

Using followers still doesn't appeal to me so I never play Wendy, but I liked her more after her update.

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Why are there "show me the results" votes when there's already a button to show the results without voting?

4 hours ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

I'd suggest giving them a passive sanity drain whenever abagail isn't around, say of 2 sanity per minute

How can Abigail not be around? She's super tanky and has a 0 second cooldown before you can summon her again for free.

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3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Why are there "show me the results" votes when there's already a button to show the results without voting?

How can Abigail not be around? She's super tanks and has a 0 second cooldown before you can summon her again.

Deerclops, Ancient gaurdian, Klaus and much more. 

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12 minutes ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

Deerclops, Ancient gaurdian, Klaus and much more. 

Don't you already lose 15 sanity if she dies? I don't think anyone would even notice losing like 15.1 sanity instead of 15, especially combined with dc's sanity drain. And that's even assuming she does die.

Ag would be similar where even if you do dismiss her for the fight you'd barely lose any and only like once per ten years in a situation where you're already losing considerably more sanity.

Klaus is more of the same. Even if she does die it's probably a good bit into the fight where it's not long until she can be safely resummoned for free. Plus the drain is so low you're barely losing any sanity while she's down.

I don't think anyone would even notice the drain at all.

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I'm pretty sure it's 50 sanity loss upon Abby's death?

Yeah it is.

I just wanna say I see this happen as a trap for noobs all the time lmao.

They try to use Abigail for everything and never assist.  So when Abigail eventually dies because they tried fighting a pig, they just constantly re-summon her to die again lmao.  Since she only respawns with 150 HP and isn't more durable against single targets.

So yeah Abigail dying does matter lol. Especially for noobs.

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I don't have very strong feelings for or against Wendy, but I think sometimes people like to pretend downsides don't exist and it annoys me.

For most bosses Wendy must tank b/c abi can't kite and takes full damage from bosses.  Dfly is a notable exception where you *can* kite to dodge dfly's attack and it won't retarget to Abi, but for most other mobs in the game if you dodge the attack Abi is just gonna get hit instead.  Either you tank it, OR you don't use Abi in which case you have your full damage penalty applied.  I don't see Wendy as a character with many wins in the boss department.  She's great on the day to day stuff, and I don't think that's really a problem.

idk though - Klei decided balance was suddenly important when they refresh Wolfgang b/c he was metaknight and forcing ppl to pick him.  Meanwhile Wendy is sitting at the highest pick rate at over 2x pick rate of most other characters...  Maybe Klei should respond to the meta with a balance patch to redirect players to Wurt and end this oppressive meta /s

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11 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

they should use her at day instead of at night...

But muh damage......

If I have to be smart about my collateral damage as Wendy then she should be buffed!

Spoiler

For legal purposes everything above is strictly a joke.

I don't know specifics about Wendy since I never play her but Klaus deer dying also ain't a Wendy only problem.

It arises when having any followers to assist with fighting Klaus.

Once I somehow had a random stray pig whittle down one of the deer's off screen when I retreated to grab my panflute and I had to redo my fight.

Other than that trying to utilize Abigail in boss fights (aside from bee queen) requires atleast some learning or "puppeteering" because ALOT of the time she can feel more like a nuisance instead of an asset.

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I can’t believe people have refused to see that Klei is almost completely phasing out harsh crippling downsides..

Wendy isn’t the ONLY character that got this treatment, Willow who’s downside was supposed to be that she gets cold faster & loses sanity faster while cold now has a stuffed teddy bear that can be hugged for warmth, and when low sanity enlarges to fight enemies for her. Wormwood who can’t heal from eating foods can now heal by using loose rot if he wants to: While this may not mean much during a boss fight.. it makes a significantly noticeable impact on just roaming about the map. Wes who had no perks now has Speed Boost, Sanity Restoration, Lightning/Wetness prevention

Lets try something a little more complicated: Wigfrid who’s downside is still can only eat meat thanks to various gameplay updates such as the Lunar Cave Grotto, or The Sea Fishing Update- Now has many more “Meat” sources- Including but not just limited to: Fishing if a biome she’s exploring is completely void of any other meat sources, Molebats, the Year of the Beefalo update allows her to bond, lure away from its herd and kill a singular Beefalo, Even the newest DLC Wigfrid can Hire herself a Ticoon to kill for free meats.

The only character who truly seemed to get more downsides is Wolfgang..

But even his 3x hunger drain and becoming Wimpy when Hungry downside has changed to the point that you can be starving to death and still topped off in Might dealing 2x damage.

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1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

But even his 3x hunger drain and becoming Wimpy when Hungry downside has changed to the point that you can be starving to death and still topped off in Might dealing 2x damage.

For the small small price of purple gems.

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Wendy's update kept to her previously experienced themes and mechanics that made her unique, while giving her more tools to work with and control over those mechanics, including specific points of control that the community was asking for for ages.

The Beefalo damage boost making her one of the best boss killers with a defense potion for Abi is...definitely divisive, but that 'perk' has always seemed to me like an oversight in how damage is calculated, rather than intentional design.

 

But ignoring that one issue...
As far as design philosophy goes, I'd say Wendy is the best rework we've had. She won't be for everyone, but at the very least, she's for the same people that liked her before, along with new tools for newer players to explore, and a significant amount of the previous frustration in her gameplay loop removed.

As far as I'm concerned, she's the model that reworks should strive to be.
Look at what parts of the character players are already experiencing and enjoying, how to expand from there...try things, playtest, clean up, don't move on until feedback is considered and settled.
...and uh...don't get too focused on an internal idea of what a character was 'meant' to be, when that version of the character is entirely different from what players have been experiencing in the first place.

 

 

...all that said, I feel like people still forget that you can put Abigail away.

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26 minutes ago, abrocator said:

For the small small price of purple gems.

Purple Gems? Why??

Long-Off Topic response in spoiler:

Spoiler

You only need purples if you want to get to topped of Mightiness.

the way I do it: Stone- Useful only for going from Wimpy to Average form and for throwing as Projectiles when Mighty.

(Stone Raises might fastest when in Wimpy, and it slows down when trying to use at Average)

GOLD is the Next step up, useful for going from Average Size to Mighty, and can be used as projectiles if you can a mass gold easily (use stone dumbbells to kill birds and rabbits for morsels, give them to Pig King for Gold) Gold Dumbbells will slow down Might Gains once you pass the AVERAGE threshold.

GEMbell- Useful exclusively for going from already being in Mighty form, to topping it off at 100% (any other use of this Dumbell is a waste of Gembell Durability)

Theres a very logical reasoning behind WHY it works this way, I am a skinny human: Picking up a 5 Lb weight while skinny will be a workout and I’ll gain muscle, Sure I could “TRY” to lift a 15/30 Lb weight but it’ll be heavier and I’ll lift it significantly slower..

However- once I lift the 5Lb weight enough to where it’s effortless to lift I’ll no longer gain muscle from it (hence the slower might gains) to buff my muscles up even further I would need to up my weight to the 15/30.. and much like I had the 5 Lb lift those until lifting them ALSO becomes effortless, finally to get really ripped I’ll move up from 15/30 Lb to 40/50Lb

If your SKINNY and WEAK lifting something heavier you will “Struggle” in doing thus waste time getting the workout done. Gain some muscle and no longer “Struggle” then you won’t gain muscle mass and need a heavier weight.

I feel like this is the vitally important part of Wolfgang’s rework people are just failing to understand.. 

Theres a REASON why Stone Dumbells get you out of Wimpy form faster then gold or Gem, Gold out of Average to Might, and Gem to top out Might..

And it makes perfectly logical real world sense.

 

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