Maxposting Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 1/22/2022 at 6:27 PM, Scrimbles said: No, he's quite literally insane. You are on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Princess Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 16 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: garlic isnt that bad if you wanna make potatoe pure,for fights like fw is confortable 15 hours ago, Dr.Medic said: spiraled tupers is way better Potato puree has advantage of spoiling slower than spiralled tubers and cooked potato, so if one can afford such inefficient dish, there are some nice things one gains. Even with bundles each act of unbundling-picking stuff-eating stuff/splitting stack-bundling takes some time, so for super longterm worlds spoilage time still matters. Another thing to consider is filler that still takes time to farm, and in that regard potato puree is better than spiralled tubers if all one cares about is sanity. Moreover, garlic, potato and pumpkin form self-sustaining autumn+winter combo in 1:2:2 ratio on farm plot, so it's convenient to cook because of convenience of production. Real use case story: recently I played on one of the Klei official servers with a friend, we built our base deep in the ruins, didn't have much filler generators and even spare space for them, didn't have much surface resources (no ice, very little honey, and somehow we forgot about bringing hound teeth to sew sanity clothing, but couldn't be bothered to return to the surface). I was the one in charge for farming and cooking and decided to cook potato puree for sanity and perogie for health, + I was looking for exactly 2 convenient dishes to apply garlic and pepper spice to, in particular, with strong stats per item, decent spoilage time and not requiring going out of our way to the surface for ice, etc. We both were satisfied with the result. I'm not arguing that it's the most efficient dish, but it has its uses, even if niche. Potato puree could use buff to spoilage time though, 20 days would be nice (it would be the most long-lasting sanity dish, on par only with jerky, if I remember correctly). For Fuelweaver, on the other hand, I find it more comfortable to have separate food for restoring sanity and health just because I don't always need both in exactly this ratio (I prefer vegetable stingers/ice cream + trail mixes/flower saland combo). As for the topic, I prefer Webber, but it's mostly because he has better control over followers (Wurt should gain her own version of webby whistle), less bugs (although invisible spiders in backpacks are annoying) and overall faster access to power peak. With Wurt I have quite a few problems: I don't enjoy scarcity of vegetable food at sea and board grind (even with perks towards that activity, but that's personal preference), lack of use for meat I'm getting anyway (by farming mobs for non-food resources), as well as the fact that getting temperature fish heavily depends on luck (or maybe I'm doing something wrong?), very annoying - not hard to overcome though - gold shortage, lack of decent fish to hold in the caves (+ no tin fishing bins or equivalent for restoring freshness of surface ones, star-sky is present in one copy per world, which is a problem for multiplayer). And Merm King feels like a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrimbles Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 6 hours ago, __IvoCZE__ said: You are on this site. Perhaps that is the most insane thing of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Merm House now have Skin, Florp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradyne Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 So...genuinely thinking about it. I wonder if Wurt's intention is to be a solo character that...just exists within a small part of the game. Not supposed to interact with most of the world, not supposed to venture far from the kingdom...that seems implied by the Merm King feeding mechanic, most of all. The swamp crafting and turf benefit. Merms functionally being not much different from Pigs, the boosts only existing if you're glued to the kingdom. Like... This character's just supposed to be a merm that's more personable, expands merm society...and nothing else. A flavor character. Mutiplayer participators aren't even meant to see them often unless they go into the swamp...which actually happens in pub servers if a Wurt is actually, like, using their perks. In its current state, playing Wurt is a merm life roleplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrocator Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Okay gang. What have you brought back to base after your adventures? Wigfrid: ruins gear and the meat of fallen föes! (the rest that I didn’t eat) William: I mined, dug, and chopped three biomes. Woodie: Basically the same as that fancy guy, eh. Wolfgang: I killed three bosses solo. itches uh does anyone of y'all have some purple gems? Wanda: I was just gonna solo eight bosses in a row but I also got five stacks of nightmare fuel in the process which is okay I guess. Wurt: 200 rot and 78 pieces of tentacle genitalia, florpt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, abrocator said: Wurt: 200 rot and 78 pieces of tentacle genitalia, florpt. this is the kind of gameplay i look after when i play wurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubious little Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 20 hours ago, maradyne said: So...genuinely thinking about it. I wonder if Wurt's intention is to be a solo character that...just exists within a small part of the game. Not supposed to interact with most of the world, not supposed to venture far from the kingdom...that seems implied by the Merm King feeding mechanic, most of all. The swamp crafting and turf benefit. Merms functionally being not much different from Pigs, the boosts only existing if you're glued to the kingdom. Like... This character's just supposed to be a merm that's more personable, expands merm society...and nothing else. A flavor character. Mutiplayer participators aren't even meant to see them often unless they go into the swamp...which actually happens in pub servers if a Wurt is actually, like, using their perks. In its current state, playing Wurt is a merm life roleplay. I think it's pretty funny how any DS exclusive character could be taken from singleplayer and put into Together and work in a team better than the Together exclusive character. Wilba - Woodie's wereforms 2.0 Wheeler - good at map exploration, tracking things (for example if you found a setpiece containing beef wool or if you found a lone pig house), has ranged combat and great DPS with dodge Wagstaff - ez tree farm, possibly could let people use the glasses (such as the ranged firing ones or the armour) Wilbur - map coverage, can farm monkey drops like webber (even using the same feeding technique) Walani - ocean stuff (salt box, finding lunar islands, getting kelp stems) Woodlegs - honestly probabaly the only exception, might as well just base on a boat Wurt herself - pretty much either gets outclassed (better gatherers exist without the need for merms, merms are good but a combat character is better for the team when fighting bosses until lategame assuming a Wurt was there the entire time, merm king trades aren't super useful when the seeds can just get done with a bird cage and some waiting, swamp drops can be farmed by pretty much any merm house near tentacles by just basing near the swamp, whatever else) or shes only beneficial to other Wurts (can get merms much faster as they all share the goal which merms do outclass combat characters when enough exist/just make fights easier as you'll be less of the focus, gets buffed by king, all live in dangerous terrain that will have anything that enters destroyed by merms, consistent decent weapons due to always being in the swamp rather than just near it, whatever else) Even if she wasn't outclassed since you can argue other solo hypothetically ported characters or even the existing reworked characters are outclassed, her need to be in the swamp makes making a base thats just nearby others a pain since it's a thing you need to consistently work towards to be good unlike spiders where you just go to them to make nurses/spitters or to get their drops, and the stuff she needs can't really be moved like reeds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ0264 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 7 hours ago, dubious little said: Wilba - Woodie's wereforms 2.0 Merms can chop and Wurt can collect, she's a better chopper than Woodie and isn't cursed with 75 max hp like Maxwell. Webber is slower then Wurt when it comes to logs, cobblestone(marsh turf), rocks & living logs 7 hours ago, dubious little said: Wilbur - map coverage, can farm monkey drops like webber (even using the same feeding technique) Monkeys harvest crops and there drops (poop, morsels, bananas) Wurt can start Merm civil wars then give the fish to Merm king (kelp, rot, seeds, trinkets, spots) frog legs could be turned into eggs for filler; Merms stay outside, vegen and don't judge you like Bunnymen - which is perfect for drawing Pigs, Spiders, Mosquitos, Frogs, Bats, Hounds farms. Outside exclusive crafts, the majority of silk items are tents, clothing and fishing gear + Webber has to worry about Spiders eating meat, pigskin, horns & eyeballs 7 hours ago, dubious little said: Walani - ocean stuff (salt box, finding lunar islands, getting kelp stems) Most of the ocean content is food related, which can be solved with birdcage + Bunny/Merm vs Spider combo completing the Pearl quest early is the big thing 7 hours ago, dubious little said: ,her need to be in the swamp makes making a base thats just nearby others a pain since it's a thing you need to consistently work towards to be good unlike spiders where you just go to them to make nurses/spitters or to get their drops, and the stuff she needs can't really be moved like reeds). True it benefits her but you don't have to base in the swamp (right outside the swamp is fine) - Wurt can collected stack of marsh turf + 36 reeds for 12 merms then plop them in the dessert, tumbleweeds occasionally drop reeds; People say Wanda's teleporters are amazing but they don't mention that 8/10 world gen only gives you 1 walrus camp, it's insulting to Wanda when killing Mactusk throughout winter and only getting 1 tusk (it's a nightmare in a team setting cause everyone wants a cane). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubious little Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 18 hours ago, JJ0264 said: Merms can chop and Wurt can collect, she's a better chopper than Woodie and isn't cursed with 75 max hp like Maxwell. Webber is slower then Wurt when it comes to logs, cobblestone(marsh turf), rocks & living logs Monkeys harvest crops and there drops (poop, morsels, bananas) Wurt can start Merm civil wars then give the fish to Merm king (kelp, rot, seeds, trinkets, spots) frog legs could be turned into eggs for filler; Merms stay outside, vegen and don't judge you like Bunnymen - which is perfect for drawing Pigs, Spiders, Mosquitos, Frogs, Bats, Hounds farms. Outside exclusive crafts, the majority of silk items are tents, clothing and fishing gear + Webber has to worry about Spiders eating meat, pigskin, horns & eyeballs Most of the ocean content is food related, which can be solved with birdcage + Bunny/Merm vs Spider combo completing the Pearl quest early is the big thing True it benefits her but you don't have to base in the swamp (right outside the swamp is fine) - Wurt can collected stack of marsh turf + 36 reeds for 12 merms then plop them in the dessert, tumbleweeds occasionally drop reeds; People say Wanda's teleporters are amazing but they don't mention that 8/10 world gen only gives you 1 walrus camp, it's insulting to Wanda when killing Mactusk throughout winter and only getting 1 tusk (it's a nightmare in a team setting cause everyone wants a cane). I don't know how to do the section thing like you've done, so they'll just be numbered. 1. Wilba can dig and smash too, which maybe smashing isn't useful but mass getting bushes, saplings and grass tuffs for your base is pretty great for the cost of 2 monster meat, as well as chopping and mining. Her wereform also lasts much longer than the average tamed Merm army would as well as allowing Wilba to explore during winter like overchaged Wx can. Don't forget that her combat ability is the equivalent to a full hambat (one of the most useful weapons) as well as having a free speed bonus thats faster than Wilburs run. 2. Pretty fair, I never thought about Merm civil wars. However I don't understand the judging thing? Yeah Bunnymen attack monsters but Merms attack everyone unless the king is active (which there's no reason for him to be outside of boss fights or ruins exploration) or you make Merm hats that last like 6 days, none of this is worthy enough to have them in your base and besides taming them over Bunnymen there's no real reason to go to them. The farm thing is also fair but sadly Wendy basically outclasses both Webber, Wurt and Wilbur at this. Silk may not be that useful but monster meat is by far the best food material in the game as it can create meatballs extremely easily even with itself by feeding the bird some meat to get eggs, healing glands are meh but they're fine for just quick healing. Webber's spiders can immediately be stopped by blowing the whistle, spiders have a delay where they'll just stand there before proceeding to get something, It's not really an issue unless you're not ready for it. Wilbur + Webber also have an easier time creating wars as they get 3 (or more for Webber) creatures per structure which Wurt only gets if she is basing in a swamp with prebuilt Merm houses. However you have opened my eyes a bit to more of Wurts possibilities. 3. Thats true, but this was thinking more of in the future tense when the ocean becomes actually useful. Even besides that Walani would have a water based combat advantage assuming she can still attack and then surf away allowing her to kite things (since none of the water bosses have much rowing or anything needed) also assuming the surfboard would be quicker than the average boat. 4. The thing is basing near the swamp isn't always a good spot, stuff you want may not be near it (like rocks, beefalo, pig king, etc) and even though most stuff can be moved I don't see the average players basing near a swamp for their Wurt unless its genuinely a good location. Moving the Merms over also removes the already created houses hosting 4 whole Merms for you to use without any extra work, plus some of her farm abilities like tentacle spikes slow down like I mentioned by not being in the swamp. Tumbleweeds are not really worth actively pursuing to get reeds from as swamps already have tons of them on top of Wurt being able to collect them faster. Not basing in a swamp only actively hurts Wurt instead of helping her and the only reason you wouldn't base there is for your team. Also it isn't really worth making Wanda's teleporter, her main advantage is the strength and her weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 12 hours ago, JJ0264 said: Merms can chop and Wurt can collect, she's a better chopper than Woodie and isn't cursed with 75 max hp like Maxwell. Webber is slower then Wurt when it comes to logs, cobblestone(marsh turf), rocks & living logs People always forget woodie can use pigs to help him chop he even has a longer loyalty timer on followers than others. Webber is indeed slower but assuming your playing a world long term bearager gives him nothing to complain about or he can just use one man band for chopping if your against bearager cheese. Wurt is hands down the best miner but I find that mining doesn't take long and unless you already have your mining crew with you it's not worth going to get them to go mine so eh. 12 hours ago, JJ0264 said: People say Wanda's teleporters are amazing but they don't mention that 8/10 world gen only gives you 1 walrus camp, it's insulting to Wanda when killing Mactusk throughout winter and only getting 1 tusk (it's a nightmare in a team setting cause everyone wants a cane). You can get canes from treasure hunts at sea all year round which you can deconstruct for tusks while this isn't worth it if your playing pubs/short term world it's 100% worth it in long term worlds with multiple people for unlocking fast travel sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrocator Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 8 hours ago, Mysterious box said: People always forget woodie can use pigs to help him chop he even has a longer loyalty timer on followers than others. At least for me, the fact that merms aren’t scared by the absence of the Sun makes them vastly better for wood chopping than pigs. I’ve never felt like pigs were worth the effort for chores like that. 8 hours ago, Mysterious box said: Wurt is hands down the best miner but I find that mining doesn't take long and unless you already have your mining crew with you it's not worth going to get them to go mine so eh. I use them all the time for mining stone fruit. With just a few of them they won’t eat much of the fruit (but a little is fine since I often get more than I need anyway). It requires more clicks and actions than using weather pains but I have some kind of aversion to using an expensive item like that for gathering food and stone fruit sprouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00petar00 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 4 hours ago, abrocator said: At least for me, the fact that merms aren’t scared by the absence of the Sun makes them vastly better for wood chopping than pigs. I’ve never felt like pigs were worth the effort for chores like that. I use them all the time for mining stone fruit. With just a few of them they won’t eat much of the fruit (but a little is fine since I often get more than I need anyway). It requires more clicks and actions than using weather pains but I have some kind of aversion to using an expensive item like that for gathering food and stone fruit sprouts. Just use gunpowder on like 500+ stone fruit, literally 1 gunpowder works if you split them into stacks of 10. Merms are better than pigs but it isn't efficient to really gather resources with followers. Using the method i said for stune fruit, you get so much stone, marble or other trees are farmed by bosses like deerclops or bearger and after you kill fuelweaver, you can do it at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ0264 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 13 hours ago, dubious little said: However I don't understand the judging thing? Yeah Bunnymen attack monsters but Merms attack everyone unless the king is active (which there's no reason for him to be outside of boss fights or ruins exploration) or you make Merm hats that last like 6 days Silk may not be that useful but monster meat is by far the best food material in the game as it can create meatballs extremely easily even with itself by feeding the bird some meat to get eggs, healing glands are meh but they're fine for just quick healing. 3. Thats true, but this was thinking more of in the future tense when the ocean becomes actually useful. Even besides that Walani would have a water based combat advantage assuming she can still attack and then surf away allowing her to kite things (since none of the water bosses have much rowing or anything needed) also assuming the surfboard would be quicker than the average boat Bunnys judge you for picking up meat - Merms don't care that your not part of the vegan cult, as long as you don't go near there huts (take your guesses as to why?) which is perfect for semi-auto-farms like spiders, pigs, bats and maybe even Bunnys themselves too. I don't know monster meat is pretty easy to collect for any character + I think players (like wicker) would rather surf 'n' turf over common meatballs "Water based combat advantage" - you do know the surfboard has a fragile 100 hp (which depletes) and it's max speed takes time in between stops risking to be hit, better control/portability is more accurate for the surfboard with the cookie boat you can carry more stuff and with 2+ sails is way faster. 14 hours ago, dubious little said: 1. Wilba can dig and smash too, which maybe smashing isn't useful but mass getting bushes, saplings and grass tuffs for your base is pretty great for the cost of 2 monster meat, as well as chopping and mining. Her wereform also lasts much longer than the average tamed Merm army would as well as allowing Wilba to explore during winter like overchaged Wx can. Don't forget that her combat ability is the equivalent to a full hambat (one of the most useful weapons) as well as having a free speed bonus thats faster than Wilburs run. 4. The thing is basing near the swamp isn't always a good spot, stuff you want may not be near it (like rocks, beefalo, pig king, etc) and even though most stuff can be moved I don't see the average players basing near a swamp for their Wurt unless its genuinely a good location. Moving the Merms over also removes the already created houses hosting 4 whole Merms for you to use without any extra work, plus some of her farm abilities like tentacle spikes slow down like I mentioned by not being in the swamp. Tumbleweeds are not really worth actively pursuing to get reeds from as swamps already have tons of them on top of Wurt being able to collect them faster. Not basing in a swamp only actively hurts Wurt instead of helping her and the only reason you wouldn't base there is for your team. Also it isn't really worth making Wanda's teleporter, her main advantage is the strength and her weapon. Wilba? amass bushes, saplings, tuffs isn't that big a deal in the long-run - it's not like Wilburs monkey were they do the picking work for you. Wurt could always give the Merms more seeds if you need more time and there not a blackhole like the were-pig; Good point on the combat but overall it depends on how the Wx-78 & Maxwell rework goes + I think the Woodie mains would apricate not being step on again... Other characters have similar problems - Walter with the Pig king, Wendy with graveyard, Warly with the oasis, Wicker/Webber with the swamp, Wx-78 with the ruins. I didn't say desert was ideal for Wurt, I just figure if Wicker makes trips to the swamp for books then Wurt could do the same + if the swamp is THAT bad of a location you could strip the marsh turf, plop them near base/boss area and get stationary cane speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubious little Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 5 hours ago, JJ0264 said: Bunnys judge you for picking up meat - Merms don't care that your not part of the vegan cult, as long as you don't go near there huts (take your guesses as to why?) which is perfect for semi-auto-farms like spiders, pigs, bats and maybe even Bunnys themselves too. I don't know monster meat is pretty easy to collect for any character + I think players (like wicker) would rather surf 'n' turf over common meatballs "Water based combat advantage" - you do know the surfboard has a fragile 100 hp (which depletes) and it's max speed takes time in between stops risking to be hit, better control/portability is more accurate for the surfboard with the cookie boat you can carry more stuff and with 2+ sails is way faster. Wilba? amass bushes, saplings, tuffs isn't that big a deal in the long-run - it's not like Wilburs monkey were they do the picking work for you. Wurt could always give the Merms more seeds if you need more time and there not a blackhole like the were-pig; Good point on the combat but overall it depends on how the Wx-78 & Maxwell rework goes + I think the Woodie mains would apricate not being step on again... Other characters have similar problems - Walter with the Pig king, Wendy with graveyard, Warly with the oasis, Wicker/Webber with the swamp, Wx-78 with the ruins. I didn't say desert was ideal for Wurt, I just figure if Wicker makes trips to the swamp for books then Wurt could do the same + if the swamp is THAT bad of a location you could strip the marsh turf, plop them near base/boss area and get stationary cane speed 1. I didn't say the auto farming was bad, but the Merms still judge everyone else unless they have a mask or the kings active so I just don't see how thats different to having meat when a Bunnymen is near, sure you need to pick up the meat drops but the Merm is still constantly aggroed? Only Wurt can access the farm really or you wait for the Merms to return home which you can do the same with Bunnymen. Only difference is if Wurt makes masks consistently or you have the king alive for a fight. Mass collecting monster meat is still super useful and monster meat is just a very easy "in general" food, plus you have to remember the average player will take a lot more time than Webber would collecting monster meat unless they plan to tank all the spiders for whatever reason. 2. You don't need a sail or anything to fight any of the ocean bosses (and yes this isn't like tanking, you really don't need the speed), and having more control + being a smaller target is very useful. I'd assume it wouldn't deplete due to new boats not depleting unless hit, although would be a riskier option. 3. You only need 2 meatballs per transformation and maybe something else after, it's really not that hard. Still Wilba is pretty much all 3 of Woodies wereforms but better at the cost of food for an overall great chopper, miner, fighter and explorer/free speed bonus while Wurt can succeed these better she needs to build up Merms for the latter. Honestly though if these characters were ported they'd be reworked too, I'd imagine Wilbas wereform would become more 1v1 kiting combat and she'd have a trading system with pigs, maybe even a job system where her helpers which could do things other helpers currently can't but none of them would be useful outside of that, who knows. I agree on not having other characters step on eachothers toes though. 4. Wicker is fair enough, she does rely on the swamp a decent bit. Walter doesn't need to rely on pig king, it's just useful, even then you can amass stacks of gold pretty easily by just grave digging so it isn't really much of a revisit thing. Webber doesn't need the swamp at all, none of the papyrus crafts are worth making, all you need is the whistle and switcherdoodles, you get dens by upgrading existing ones far from base then having the spiders attack their own den, easy. Wendy rarely needs the potions, at most you get them for a boss fight or maybe the ruins? It isn't nearly as back and fourth. I'm assuming you mean Warly and volt goat jelly? Which thats pretty fair. Wx and the ruins is more of a gameplay style, you pick Wx because you enjoy rushing the ruins, there's no other reason to besides being a better Wilson or having a niche speed bonus unless Wicker exists in the game too, whether this was intended and will be changed in his rework is up to Klei but his role in DST is very much ruins rusher, it's like picking Wormwood for farming, anyone can do it but this character does it wayyy better. I love Wurt but she just needs more, most of the game you're just playing as vegan Wilson with better pigs, which could work SO much better if they just gave her ways to keep the king alive while not at base + making it efficient to actually keep him alive rather than replacing him, a lot of the issues go away that way as Merms now become passive and anyone can freely use them whenever, king can be traded with whenever, fighter Merms actually exist for more than boss fights but as potential body guards for any little combat job, etc. She actually becomes a team centric character this way with her minions being the best and being available to everybody, this would also actually make her useful for the team in a different way to Webber and would make her make sense as a together character. All it takes is a feature like being able to leave dishes on some plates that surround the king which he'll eat when hungry and other mobs can't access and letting othe characters put food on these plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacknight7890 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Funny fish girl go burrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ0264 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 12 hours ago, dubious little said: Only Wurt can access the farm really or you wait for the Merms to return home which you can do the same with Bunnymen. Only difference is if Wurt makes masks consistently or you have the king alive for a fight. Mass collecting monster meat is still super useful and monster meat is just a very easy "in general" food, plus you have to remember the average player will take a lot more time than Webber would collecting monster meat unless they plan to tank all the spiders for whatever reason. If you talking about team setting - Merm king every 2 days or Merm mask spoils 6 days - Wurt is one of those characters that benefits from being a 'homebody' rather then 'explorer' so she's going to be at the base 70-80% of the time, players have more time for other things Wurt can supports others by tended to the base and gathering resources through the Merms (nobody is gonna complain about Wurt bringing crowns/jellybeans every 20 days). Meatballs (hunger in general) isn't that hard to get as Wilson it's the fact you have no way amass producing like Webber, but once you get easy filler like kelp you no longer need 4x the monster meat (do you really need 100 meatballs) the reason why I think Merms drops are better for the team is because of surf'n'turf 37.5 hunger 33 sanity 60 health or stuffed fish heads 75 hunger, 0 sanity, 20 health 13 hours ago, dubious little said: Honestly though if these characters were ported they'd be reworked too, I'd imagine Wilbas wereform would become more 1v1 kiting combat and she'd have a trading system with pigs, maybe even a job system where her helpers which could do things other helpers currently can't but none of them would be useful outside of that That's true about the rework but DST already has 3.5 labor characters (Woodie, Maxwell, Wurt, Warly) why not give Wurt another type of Merm (Farmer merm or Fisher merm) Wicker/Worm got mini rework and Webber got water spiders after his rework 13 hours ago, dubious little said: Walter doesn't need to rely on pig king, it's just useful, even then you can amass stacks of gold pretty easily by just grave digging so it isn't really much of a revisit thing. Webber doesn't need the swamp at all, none of the papyrus crafts are worth making, all you need is the whistle and switcherdoodles, you get dens by upgrading existing ones far from base then having the spiders attack their own den, easy. With 1 gold Walter can kill 10 birds for 10 gold then converted into 100 gold rounds, Pig king buffs Walter with infinity gold, feathers, morsels, rounds & Krampus - don't tell me that Walter and Pig king are not meant to be neighbors; Aside from nurse spiders Webber switcherdoodles suck it better to uses traps instead - if you like yellows punch a tier 3 spider den then use shoe box 4 yellow per den, the reason why Webber is better in the swamp is for more dens = quicker Spider invasion + intrapped them with decorate dens for sorting types like Pikmin it also stops Spiders attacking walls or structures or other players. 14 hours ago, dubious little said: I love Wurt but she just needs more, most of the game you're just playing as vegan Wilson with better pigs, which could work SO much better if they just gave her ways to keep the king alive while not at base + making it efficient to actually keep him alive rather than replacing him, a lot of the issues go away that way as Merms now become passive and anyone can freely use them whenever, king can be traded with whenever, fighter Merms actually exist for more than boss fights but as potential body guards for any little combat job, etc. She actually becomes a team centric character this way with her minions being the best and being available to everybody, this would also actually make her useful for the team in a different way to Webber and would make her make sense as a together character. All it takes is a feature like being able to leave dishes on some plates that surround the king which he'll eat when hungry and other mobs can't access and letting other characters put food on these plates. I agree, "leave dishes on some plates" it sound like your thinking of a Butler Merms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubious little Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, JJ0264 said: If you talking about team setting - Merm king every 2 days or Merm mask spoils 6 days - Wurt is one of those characters that benefits from being a 'homebody' rather then 'explorer' so she's going to be at the base 70-80% of the time, players have more time for other things Wurt can supports others by tended to the base and gathering resources through the Merms (nobody is gonna complain about Wurt bringing crowns/jellybeans every 20 days). Meatballs (hunger in general) isn't that hard to get as Wilson it's the fact you have no way amass producing like Webber, but once you get easy filler like kelp you no longer need 4x the monster meat (do you really need 100 meatballs) the reason why I think Merms drops are better for the team is because of surf'n'turf 37.5 hunger 33 sanity 60 health or stuffed fish heads 75 hunger, 0 sanity, 20 health That's true about the rework but DST already has 3.5 labor characters (Woodie, Maxwell, Wurt, Warly) why not give Wurt another type of Merm (Farmer merm or Fisher merm) Wicker/Worm got mini rework and Webber got water spiders after his rework With 1 gold Walter can kill 10 birds for 10 gold then converted into 100 gold rounds, Pig king buffs Walter with infinity gold, feathers, morsels, rounds & Krampus - don't tell me that Walter and Pig king are not meant to be neighbors; Aside from nurse spiders Webber switcherdoodles suck it better to uses traps instead - if you like yellows punch a tier 3 spider den then use shoe box 4 yellow per den, the reason why Webber is better in the swamp is for more dens = quicker Spider invasion + intrapped them with decorate dens for sorting types like Pikmin it also stops Spiders attacking walls or structures or other players. I agree, "leave dishes on some plates" it sound like your thinking of a Butler Merms 1. Those are still pretty bad, 2 days is not long enough for the king and even if the mask is easy to make you won't be using it often and it's insufficient for Merms to be in the base as you'd have to use it, making Merms needed to be placed in a corner like spiders which isn't the worst but I've already said how it just inconveniences her compared to just basing in the swamp while spiders + Webber don't suffer this issue at all. While surf n turf is better for the team, It's really not that hard to mass produce Pierogis with monster meat either, Wurt is the better farmer later in the game but for fighting Dfly in autumn for that furnace for winter you'd be wanted Pierogis more as its just easier to make (especially if your farm has a Wormwood or maybe even a Wicker). 2. I already know about the pk strat and it's fine but you can already easily get tons of gold, I don't see the need for more, especially if you go to the ruins with sanity being one of Walters great perks he doesn't even need to worry about going insane, on top of that Walters one of the best travel characters. Ammo is only really used for cheese, a few cheap shots in a fight or shooting creatures, his slingshot can be good but it isn't to the point where you wanna cling to pk for rounds especially when you can mass get marble with Beargear too in spring (although gold is good for early game). 2.0 (webber part). Den decorations are horrible, they take away your farming ability and you really don't need to mass collect warriors outside of their jump I guess, they attack slower and health already won't be much of an issue for your spiders due to nurses so no point making the shoo box, especially when you don't need to sort spiders like pikmin because spitters and nurses (maybe shattered too) are the best spiders, with spitters having the cheap cost of nitre to make. The only other useful spider is striders which is more of a one time boss cheese thing. Collecting already spawned dens is MUCH quicker than crafting them, all you need to do is upgrade with silk (which you'll have loads of) then get the spiders to break it for you, no need to ever go to the swamp especially with how many dens you can encounter in one place compared to the amount of reeds you'd need to craft them, you even basically get back all your webs you spent upgrading as well as the net bonus of tamed spiders since for some reason spiders kinda break and don't understand when other spiders are attacking their nest, Idk it's weird and inconsistent but it happens. It's unironically easier to just break dens already in the swamp than get the reeds. Maybe I'm wrong about Walter, but I know for sure Webber does not rely on reeds whatsoever. 3. Yeah I agree Wurt should receive content like that rather than giving it to Wilba, however I was just saying since Wilba would get a rework while Wurt seems like she won't be changed but who knows, if they ever do add more Merms I welcome it. 4. Butler Merms would be great, honestly just more ways to keep the king alive would be good. Because I don't think Wurt entirely favours the base playstyle with a gimmick like gaining more stats, however her base playstyle is a very good strong suit of her. It's like Wormwood who can either be the farmer or he can speed around the map during spring, Klei is pretty good at making characters be good with multiple playstyles while not catering characters to every playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychic Chicken Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 As a Wurt main I strongly disagree. Merms are very expensive, and if you want to use merm guards, you practically need merm king who is extremely outstandingly absolutely shockingly expensive... And after all that effort they're worse than bunnymen in every way, and them kiting makes them worse, they attack much much slower as a result and end up trading hits because when they run away, all that does is gives their opponent some time to end their attack cooldown. The time spent getting her stat buffs could be better spent getting helmets and pierogi as other characters. On the Webber side of things though, Webber gets much faster, cheaper, more portable AND ranged damage in the form of spitters, he has it easier with food compared to the rest of the cast while Wurt has it worse. For healing, Webber gets nurse spiders, and Wurt simply gets less healing options for being vegetarian. Wurt is definitely far from overpowered, I'd go as far as to say she's one of the worst characters in the game. I think Webber is pretty decent, it's just that other characters like Wanda and Wolfgang outshine him in combat, and despite spiders making combat easy on paper, it doesn't in practice because new players struggle with Webber anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretPizzaMan Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Hey you! You're finally awake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 6 hours ago, Psychic Chicken said: As a Wurt main I strongly disagree. Merms are very expensive, and if you want to use merm guards, you practically need merm king who is extremely outstandingly absolutely shockingly expensive... And after all that effort they're worse than bunnymen in every way, and them kiting makes them worse, they attack much much slower as a result and end up trading hits because when they run away, all that does is gives their opponent some time to end their attack cooldown. The time spent getting her stat buffs could be better spent getting helmets and pierogi as other characters. On the Webber side of things though, Webber gets much faster, cheaper, more portable AND ranged damage in the form of spitters, he has it easier with food compared to the rest of the cast while Wurt has it worse. For healing, Webber gets nurse spiders, and Wurt simply gets less healing options for being vegetarian. Wurt is definitely far from overpowered, I'd go as far as to say she's one of the worst characters in the game. I think Webber is pretty decent, it's just that other characters like Wanda and Wolfgang outshine him in combat, and despite spiders making combat easy on paper, it doesn't in practice because new players struggle with Webber anyway. As another wurt main i agree for the most part but i'd also say webber is down there because he has basically nothing outside of combat and setting up spiders a lot of the time is slower than just doing it the normal way or using another method. I would say wurt is better because her merms are better for general use even if that is outclassed by maxwell and bearger she isn't outclassed by a regular survivor right away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychic Chicken Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 7 hours ago, Dextops said: As another wurt main i agree for the most part but i'd also say webber is down there because he has basically nothing outside of combat and setting up spiders a lot of the time is slower than just doing it the normal way or using another method. I would say wurt is better because her merms are better for general use even if that is outclassed by maxwell and bearger she isn't outclassed by a regular survivor right away I agree Webber isn't great, but I feel like other characters can just smash down pig houses and rabbit hutches to basically get cheaper merms earlygame (plus bunnymen are better at combat, although pigs aren't quite as good at working), and for lategame, you can spam pigs and bunnymen all the same as you can with merms. And the pigs/bunnymen aren't as aggressive to most other characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Psychic Chicken said: I agree Webber isn't great, but I feel like other characters can just smash down pig houses and rabbit hutches to basically get cheaper merms earlygame (plus bunnymen are better at combat, although pigs aren't quite as good at working), and for lategame, you can spam pigs and bunnymen all the same as you can with merms. And the pigs/bunnymen aren't as aggressive to most other characters. problem is pigs are worse workers than merms so wurt can collect better than a wilson yet spiders only real use for webber is to fight which a wilson can do faster and more cost efficient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantispidae Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 I feel like theres some pretty baffling takes here like "Wurt is just wilson" which feels like such a broad stretch that at that point everyone is just Wilson. Webber is just spider wilson. Wes is mime wilson. Woodie is canadian wilson. Webber and Wurt are basically the same character because both are follower focused. Webber is therefore spider wurt. Yeah if you completely ignore most of the character's stuff everyone is wilson. Anyway. Webber is conceptualized, at least from the start as a swarm gimmick. Spiders are the bottom of food chain monster and the goal of webber is to take what is effectively the starting rpg level 1 slime enemy of DS and make an army out of it. Spiders from the start of the game are not really supposed to be a combat powerhouse but rather something you produce on mass and overwhelm with like ants. And then when the reworks came, more control over swarm came, along with a strong way to give survivability to the horde. This is where webber takes off- once you have easy horde customization and access to healers along with more control, his ability to be strong in combat really shoots up. That's why his rework was focused on that- it made it a lot easier to make spider-based combat work as well as ironing out issues with spider-player conflicts. With the right planning you can make use of these upgrades early on, which is why webber ramps up so fast but doesn't really have much going on later game. As soon as you master the spider mechanic and know what to do with it you've figured out the big point with his character. Is it resource intensive? Kinda, but not overly. All the spiders you can 'make' are still naturally produced in the world and can therefore be acquired for free, but you can focus your resources on certain ones in order to make it strong enough to minimize spider loss. He's overall extremely balanced and the fun of him is mostly supposed to come from going about combat in a unique manner. So Wurt. Pigs 2.0 girl. I like her but i feel like she was /heavily/ underutilized. Her followers are extremely similar to pigs, because merms have always been the hostile opposite of pigs, but I feel like its unfair to think of Webber and Wurt in terms of "if you had ten spiders vs. ten merms, merms are better in every way" because while you can certainly amass an army of 50 merms, I don't really consider that what you're expected to do with her. Is it probably the best way to use merms? probably yeah. More is better. But spiders are, at their core, designed around strength in numbers while merms are meant to be inherently powerful companions. And thats where I feel like Wurt falls on her face a bit design wise. The way her design and gimmicks read to me is of a city builder character- That the overall 'goal' of Wurt is that you build a merm kingdom where you have your friendly merms that help you take down everything and collect all the resources, you use that to expand, and then you build your big fancy king to show off the power of the kingdom Wurt has amassed. It just feels... a lot weaker? weirder? in practice. You have the merms, they're strong and good and you can collect a lot solo. This helps you cover the massive cost of actually using these mechanics- houses are expensive, the king is expensive, the warriors are expensive and if you make a lot of them to build a big army you are going to need a /lot/ to cover the costs. But then once its said and done it's a mixed bag of feeling really good to use and cool and strangely lackluster. The king, who is supposed to be cool centerpiece of her merm mechanics, sucks to actually keep around and his perks consist mostly of a big combat buff and throwing junk at you. A lot of the resources you acquire are effectively useless in solo play, such as the vast amounts of meat you get along with the king's trinkets- and the way that merms work actually makes them mesh really poorly with playing with others, so even if you have friends you are probably going to build everything in Wurt's own corner. Maybe its because you have to put so much into setting everything up that it makes getting payoff feel like it doesn't really add much because you already had to get there to begin with? I don't even know. But at the same time, I can think of all the ways I would maybe want her to go, and then think that maybe it was just too unique for character to be hamlet-lite. Like I was thinking about if building the king gave you access to merm contracts to specialize merms into certain things. Like you could turn a built merm house into a mini farm plot and the merm would just automatically grow seeds you gave them, but was no longer good for combat. Or you could set up something like the fishermerms from shipwrecked. You actively give up combat power but gain resource management kinda thing. Anyway I don't know why I typed so much about swamp fish frog men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinancoTheBest Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Webber and Wurt play nothing alike, I don't know where this notion of "Wurt is DLC Webber" is coming from. If anything Wurt and Wigfrid have a much more similar gameplay to each other, and so are Webber and Wendy. Sure they are both mob characters but Webber (after his QoL) is all about keeping the spiders of the world at bay and leading a large gang everywhere while Wurt is a dietary-restricted character that is the only character that can make more merms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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