Wolfgang's Character Refresh is Coming Next Week!

[NinofanTOG]

 

[Milordo]

2 minutes ago, NinofanTOG said:

 

Wanda again:

"Staying at 20 hp for x2 damage will not be a problem, right?" 

Oh right i forgot.... Wanda OP

[Yuuko]

30 minutes ago, reallychina said:

Speed was integral to wolfang for much more than fighting, fighting was maybe 10% of gametime. You spend 50% of gametime moving from point A to point B. Wolfgang could even lose his speed bonus when in fight but regain it as soon as fight music stops. I don't understand why people like @Ohan or @Shosuko fixate on speed during fights. I can see the argument to remove speed during fights to make them more challenging. To remove running speed when not in combat is a very bad move and dulls the gameplay, the gameplay that has been dynamic for years. It's already somewhat slowed down by the lifting thing (but that's not an issue, i welcome the weights change).

You must be misunderstanding something.  idk why, but I sure hope its not because you've decided you know my position without actually reading what I've said...

 

[Duck986]

11 minutes ago, NinofanTOG said:

 

Spoiler

 

Old Wanda: deals more damage than Wolfgang

Also Old Wanda: has so little hp that she can die from sneezing

[KrazJoe]

Trade of suggestion on re-adding the speed:

Make Wolfgang craft slower, like Winona hungry slow. Since Wolfgang is portrait as the dumb strongman, crafting science should be slower to fit the character.

-----

Let people get their speed, with the suggestion on cutting tree and mining fast. Heck, let's give him the ability to run on water (oh wait, he row faster), then it would have the strength on weremoose, speed of weregoose, and gathering of werebeaver. All while have access to inventory and equipments.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

24 minutes ago, NinofanTOG said:

 

i fear that this might be posted in a serious tone

[NinofanTOG]

7 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

Old Wanda: deals more damage than Wolfgang

Also Old Wanda: has so little hp that she can die from sneezing

Who said you have to be old? It does 97.92 damage when you are normal Wanda.

Of course, being old does more damage, and yes, it makes you frail, but you have good things to avoid that...Like:

• Ageless Watch: Dying? Just say no. Death legally cant catch you when you right click this bad boy.
• The fact that the Alarming Clock is a whip, meaning you have more personal space
• Backstep Watch: About to get killed by Deerclops? Just make an epic JoJo reference and teleport a few feet

Still died? Use the Second Chance watch. Sure, it breaks, but you can just build it again with the power of a Wormwood and some bones.

[sudoku]

The difference between Wanda and Wolfgang is that Wanda has an actual gameplay style which poses you to think about what you are doing in a risk vs reward way in terms of health.

Wolfgang has a gym where u click a couple times.

[Milordo]

It's incredible there are still people talking about Wanda as "broken", when it's already been discussed to death, going to the conclusion  she's the most possibly well design and balanced character that we can have today. 

I bet 10 dollars these people never and ever touched Wanda or just watched some random streamer doing pro gamer moves and think "Ah yes, she is broken!11!!1" 

 

[Duck986]

14 minutes ago, NinofanTOG said:

Who said you have to be old? It does 97.92 damage when you are normal Wanda.

Of course, being old does more damage, and yes, it makes you frail, but you have good things to avoid that...Like:

• Ageless Watch: Dying? Just say no. Death legally cant catch you when you right click this bad boy.
• The fact that the Alarming Clock is a whip, meaning you have more personal space
• Backstep Watch: About to get killed by Deerclops? Just make an epic JoJo reference and teleport a few feet

Still died? Use the Second Chance watch. Sure, it breaks, but you can just build it again with the power of a Wormwood and some bones.

k.

Wanda's supposed to be a glass cannon, so if you want to hit strong - you have to be weak and frail. Wolf still does 132 damage with a dark sword while having 200 hp, so it's a fair trade, I must say.

also I'm playing solo, so I don't need second chance watches cuz I have altars and LGAs

[NinofanTOG]

3 minutes ago, Milordo said:

most possibly well design and balanced character that we can have today. 

[Milordo]

1 minute ago, NinofanTOG said:

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

12 minutes ago, Milordo said:

It's incredible there are still people talking about Wanda as "broken", when it's already been discussed to death, going to the conclusion  she's the most possibly well design and balanced character that we can have today. 

I bet 10 dollars these people never and ever touched Wanda or just watched some random streamer doing pro gamer moves and think "Ah yes, she is broken!11!!1" 

 

the fun thing is that they bring wanda to the table to justify buffing wolfgang when,in my eyes, bringing wanda to the conversation only means that wolfgang is getting too much advantages in exchange of nothing

[Orty97]

I've been reading all of these replies for hours now. I do love the IDEEA of the refresh, the execution a bit less.
Let's take Wolfgang's character refresh and disect it:

      No matter how you look at it the game had, has and will always have solo play incorporated in it, if you deny that just don't bother, ok?
      Now the dmg modifiers being fixed is a buff and a nice QOL for Wolf players. Big like on that one.
      The dumbells are a good ideea IMO, but i would suggest doing sth that maintans mightiness be less of a chore (in boss fights). Let's say hunger at a certain% keeps your might, OR if Wolf is mighty he can move while juggling the dbells (HE WAS IN A CIRCUS WAS HE NOT?). That would solve the tedium of mightiness with just a simple fix. And you can add a downside like if you loose mightiness you have a constant food drain and can only get to normal mode after a day or two. Idk something more dynamic for the gameplay, that's what we all want, don't we???
      Now the meat and potatoes of the arguing.... THE ALLMIGHTY SPEED BUFF. Yes i admit tanking+dmg+health+ speed is too much and trivializes the gameplay (just fact, stop denying that). But (and this is a BIG ASS BUT), why take away the speed while not fighting? WHY? Just to be worse for the sake of it? Whoever suggests that don't play Wolfgang that much and should just shut up unstead of trying to make the game less enjoyable for other just cuz HURRR DURRR OTHER CHARACTERS THAT HAVE TEAM BUFFS DON'T HAVE SOLO SPEED BUFF, NO FAIR TAKE TOYS AND LEAVE. So, take his speed away while mighty- pretty much self evident to be a good thing (quite a great thing when you take into consideration the armor movement perk). But why take it away in normal mode? Just let me move faster, he's an athlete isn't he? And a circus athelete at that (not a bodybuilder in normal mode). But add some more ways to get whimpy. A character being dynamic is always a good thing for gameplay. I am open to any arguments, but please don't come with kindergarden logic. Thanks!

TL:DR - the rework is on the right path. Some things are not quite there yet. Dumbell usage/speed change are the main things people complain, and for good reason. Make them more fun and dynamic -> everyone is happy.

Thanks for the awesome games you gave us Klei, you will find a way to make most of up happy i just know it. I've sunk hundreads of hours in your games and i'm looking forward to do the same in the future. 

Edit-Typos.

[Waynel]

I gotta say tho that raid boss wise, i'm so hyped about the prospect of no speed penalty associated with using marble suit, cuz until now i would have to like equip and unequip said armor DURING THE FREAKIN FIGHT

so i'm glad i'm finally relieving some of that pressure on my fingers and that we lessened the heavy multitasking required in some of those fights

[NinofanTOG]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the fun thing is that they bring wanda to the table to justify buffing wolfgang when,in my eyes, bringing wanda to the conversation only means that wolfgang is getting too much advantages in exchange of nothing

I think it is a valid comparison.

As Wanda, to gain 90 damage(which has extended reach mind you) you need to do the following:

• Craft the weapon

As Wolfgang(Pre Rework), to gain 90 damage you need to do the following (Im assuming this Wolfgang has a Hambat):

• Craft the weapon
• Reach around 265 hunger
• Manage to stay above 265 hunger(when you have a 2.65x hunger rate) 

However, pre rework, you were faster and tanky.

Now after the rework, you need to:

• Craft the Weapon
• Craft the bell/workout station
• Workout
• Go to the boss
• Workout again because walking isnt workout and you lost some

Now, you probably used up the same amount of food as pre rework, and got above 90 damage. You are stuck at 200 HP(Mind you Wanda has 150 effective HP as well) and arent fast.

Why even bother doing that when you can just play Wanda?

[Serkesh77]

I would just like to point out and add to the discussion that treating the ability to use marble suit without penalty as something new and revolutionary is not exactly honest and true. The old Wolfgang had a 25% speed bonus, so the 30% penalty on the marble suit and piggybag represented only -5% actual speed.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, NinofanTOG said:

I think it is a valid comparison.

As Wanda, to gain 90 damage(which has extended reach mind you) you need to do the following:

• Craft the weapon

As Wolfgang(Pre Rework), to gain 90 damage you need to do the following (Im assuming this Wolfgang has a Hambat):

• Craft the weapon
• Reach around 265 hunger
• Manage to stay above 265 hunger(when you have a 2.65x hunger rate) 

However, pre rework, you were faster and tanky.

Now after the rework, you need to:

• Craft the Weapon
• Craft the bell/workout station
• Workout
• Go to the boss
• Workout again because walking isnt workout and you lost some

Now, you probably used up the same amount of food as pre rework, and got above 90 damage. You are stuck at 200 HP(Mind you Wanda has 150 effective HP as well) and arent fast.

Why even bother doing that when you can just play Wanda?

let me do the same you did

as wolfgang you need

• be might

as wanda you need:

• open dst

• create a world

• pick wanda

• choose between having more clock but needing to find thulecite or stick with 1 clock and rush shadowmanipulator

• you chosen having 2 healing clocks, back step watch so now you need to find thulecite

• go to the ruins and survive with 40 healing every 2 minutes and wasting 2 inventory slots

• find thulecite

• go to the surface

• craft shadowmanipulator

• die because you forgot to check your age while you are focused on other stuff

[PandoPon]

This thread truly feels like a Forge expirience.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, Serkesh77 said:

I would just like to point out and add to the discussion that treating the ability to use marble suit without penalty as something new and revolutionary is not exactly honest and true. The old Wolfgang had a 25% speed bonus, so the 30% penalty on the marble suit and piggybag represented only -5% actual speed.

30% for eating in a server prepare for +4 players was dumb. Not like i like that they dont give to him more to compensate the lost but was so cheap even for a sand box game

[NinofanTOG]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

let me do the same you did

as wolfgang you need

• be might

as wanda you need:

• open dst

• create a world

• pick wanda

• choose between having more clock but needing to find thulecite or stick with 1 clock and rush shadowmanipulator

• you chosen having 2 healing clocks, back step watch so now you need to find thulecite

• go to the ruins and survive with 40 healing every 2 minutes and wasting 2 inventory slots

• find thulecite

• go to the surface

• craft shadowmanipulator

• die because you forgot to check your age while you are focused on other stuff

Its called Don't Starve Together

Have you ever thought about the idea that someone else can go to the ruins while you craft the Shadow Manipulator?

Also

>Implying getting Thulecite is hard

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, NinofanTOG said:

Its called Don't Starve Together

Have you ever thought about the idea that someone else can go to the ruins while you craft the Shadow Manipulator?

Also

>Implying getting Thulecite is hard

i didnt day is hard and the same can be applied to wolfg. he can do other stuff while other player can farm the materials for the gym

3 minutes ago, NinofanTOG said:

>Implying getting Thulecite is hard

i didnt suggest that it is hard, im not the one doing a drama and demagogue comparations because wolfgang needs a gym but i guess that everybody who doesnt think like you is a noob when you sre impliying that crafting some dumbells and a gym is harder and takes more time than all the things that wanda needs. Or maybe you didnt get the sarcasm and really think that "open dst" is a hard task too

im glad that klei nerfed wolfg just to see crying too many arrogants

 

[Orty97]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 

im glad that klei nerfed wolfg just to see crying too many arrogants

 

Wow, so self-centered. Imagine enjoying other people's anger instead of trying to get more fun yourself. That's just sad.

[Dextops]

12 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Inefficiency doesn’t matter when resources are plentiful, and unlike with  Wigfrid, this can be turned off when convenient.

what? efficiency does matter in most cases what im saying is if you were trying to use wolfgangs speed to its max but failed you'd lose time instead meaning you not only had to consume food but consume it fast (at most his hunger drain was 3x iirc)

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

"Staying at 20 hp for x2 damage will not be a problem, right?" 

yeah it isn't unless you have your own personal skill issue

[NinofanTOG]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Im not the one doing a drama and demagogue comparations because wolfgang needs a gym but i guess that 

Are you sure about that?

 

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 all the things that wanda needs

Wanda literally spawns with 3 clock pieces....

Im not a Wolfgang main, but seeing(and playing) the changes made me think "I wish I was playing Wig."