Wolfgang's Character Refresh is Coming Next Week!

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, AnnaKristina said:

This right here is what is wrong with this “refresh”. 
It seems that Klei listened to feedback from people who dislike the playstyle he offers, to which they have a solution: just a play a different character. But for some reason this is not enough and they want people who do love and play him to not be allowed to have their fun, and people’s sadness about how their favorite character was changed is a source of joy and happiness for them. Can’t you find better ways to enjoy the game and community? Giving Wolfgang his speed boost back has become the biggest string of hate messages I’ve ever seen in this forum.

I believe @JustExo is right to ask Klei to elaborate on the goals and intention of this rework. If Klei is fine with the hate and malicious joy people are expressing at the expense of players who simply like a particular way of playing the game, I don’t think I can support DST or Klei as a company any longer - I did not sign up to playing a coop game so I can be exposed to so much hatred.

i love how people can treat others like dumb or noobs or even lied but i make a joke an everybody jumps

the ethic compass is kinda broken arround here

 

btw: klei removed the speed buff because of gameplay changes and because wasnt an intended perk. If you notice, wolfgang only has 3 size now, before might can grow until he got 300 hunger having a super huge sprite

[Orty97]

7 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the problem is that old wolfgang needed a lot of time that now doesn't which bring more time doing whatever you want than being cooking for minutes

you still need to cook and farm but not to fill a bar that drops at x3 speed

im not saying that clicking in a dumb minigame (imo the minigame should be harder so you actually play it) than farming crops but that dumb minigame saves you tons of resources which makes the character less grindy

 

edit: and i know how easy is to get food. Isnt about difficulty but time you still need to atleast roast them (or do people eat raw meat constanly?) which takes more time than doing the minigame

also i would love the same minigame or something similar added to the dumbells so is more interactive

 

My main problem is that his perk MIGHTINESS comes from a boring task now. You can save it by eating ofc, but you still need to do the boring thing every other day to get his only perk. I will repeat the two ideeas that i had and loved:

Let Wolfgang juggle the dbells while moving when he is like 90 mightiness. He was in a circus, so that fits perfectly.
And let us have speed when we wanna move and not in combat.(plus slower in whimpy)

I think these 2 are pretty reasonable and fun implementation in the game and would bring life to this character. While not being as OP in combat (even tho as of now COMBAT is the only thing he is good at, period.)

[Milordo]

3 minutes ago, AnnaKristina said:

I did not sign up to playing a coop game so I can be exposed to so much hatred.

These discussions about DST characters were always this much hatred. This isn't something new at all and we can discuss along on why this mentality exist. In any case, you're already walking on a dangerous road here, i simply suggest you to not read the forums then, if you don't want to see much hatred.

About Wolfgang, Klei did not tried at all to remove fun for him. On contrary, there is more fun things to do with him than before (no, i'm not talking ONLY about gym and dumbells). 

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i love how people can treat others like dumb or noobs or even lied but i make a joke an everybody jumps

the ethic compass is kinda broken arround here

I feel you.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Orty97 said:

My main problem is that his perk MIGHTINESS comes from a boring task now.

is true that klei needs to do something with the very early game. Was so boring needing to top off with a golden dumbbell my mightiness to prevent getting off guard during my unskilled ruins rush

with the gembells and the gym it improves but i guess it can be repetitive after a while (i just had the time to play 2 seasons)

[Milordo]

3 minutes ago, Orty97 said:

My main problem is that his perk MIGHTINESS comes from a boring task now. You can save it by eating ofc, but you still need to do the boring thing every other day to get his only perk. I will repeat the two ideeas that i had and loved:

Let Wolfgang juggle the dbells while moving when he is like 90 mightiness. He was in a circus, so that fits perfectly.
And let us have speed when we wanna move and not in combat.(plus slower in whimpy)

I think these 2 are pretty reasonable and fun implementation in the game and would bring life to this character. While not being as OP in combat (even tho as of now COMBAT is the only thing he is good at, period.)

I agree on the dumbells change.

I disagree on the speed change. 

[Orty97]

1 minute ago, Milordo said:

 

About Wolfgang, Klei did not tried at all to remove fun for him. On contrary, there is more fun things to do with him than before (no, i'm not talking ONLY about gym and dumbells). 

Ok, please tell me what NEW fun things you can do with Wolfgang without gym and dumbells now???

Just now, Milordo said:

I agree on the dumbells change.

I disagree on the speed change. 

Glad you agree with juggling!
Could you ellaborate why you don't agree with the speed change? Maybe i'm understanding it wrong.
But just for general gameplay (not fight or rushes or whatever), having a speed bust is just a very nice QOL imo. But i'm open to counter arguments ofc.

[KeshS]

Further notice, I am writing this post to the devs, since they said they want opinions coming, and I still have mine not yet said. 

My general understanding of Klei on character refreshes so far is two criteria: their past life before entering constant, and their personality, that also includes what they desire. It is with that in mind some char refreshes were severly changed like Woodie/Wendy, while others were more added perks on top of existing ones, like Wigfrid. This is no different to Wolfgang.

Remembering what I said above, and making it so it is fairly balanced in a game is no easy task. These kind of things can sway easily from underperforming to crushing the game. With that knowledge, Klei wanted to center Wolfgang as a showman performing a great feat of inhuman strength. It makes lots of sense why his personal weight lifting items are focused on one thing: Muscles. The definition of strength can be diluted easy, and heck; you could give him above human speed back, add unpenetrable skin, and the ability to leap from one biome to another in one go. They are all marks of a strong man, and make sense, but not the focus of his past history. This is why I want the playerbase to have an open mind about his character first, and if his story makes sense with the gameplay. Then assess Wolfgang honestly if he is less powerful, but enjoyable to play, or just straight unplayable and boring.

I still think this isn't over for Wolf mains that relied on his speed early game or stats. To give you a heads up, there are still under-appreciated items in the constant that have been rarely used, and those could use some buffs. To give an example I had an idea a long time to give grass suit a small buff to speed. It doesn't make sense realisticaly, but lots of things don't make sense, so why not if it helps in game?

As we closer reach into 2022 I understand that characters are made to be unique in style, gameplay, and further bond with other survivors. To seperate ourselves from comparing characters as, "Who has more stats". I thank you if you read this whole thing. You are great!

[Milordo]

Just now, Orty97 said:

Ok, please tell me what NEW fun things you can do with Wolfgang without gym and dumbells now???

1) Gym and dumbells

2) Having x2 dmg for much longer, so having more fun on destroy things.

3) Carrying heavy objects. Useful for megabases, other than shadow's fight. 

4) Row faster, better exploring in the sea

5) Throwing dumbells at vary things meaning = you can farm easily a lot of animals like Walter ( birds,rabbits,ecc...), using as a trigger (example Koelefant) and if you're good since it's AOE effect, farming hounds, spiders,ecc... or maybe helping out in a difficult situation? But i don't know the latter, i need to play him more.

 

Now tell me how much this is less fun than "I EAT, I HIT".  It could be more? Absolutely, i would like more things to do with Wolf but my point is all of this is a plus than before. Old Wolfgang was literally nothing, just a buffed Wilson without a beard. Boring as hell.

[Ohan]

What if the other survivors gained sanity while watching Wolfgang do his tricks on his gym?  

yeah there r several such group sanity perks like wendy walter and wes but i think it would be cute. The sanity could increase in relation to the heaviness of his weights. 

[Milordo]

4 minutes ago, KeshS said:

 To give an example I had an idea a long time to give grass suit a small buff to speed. It doesn't make sense realisticaly, but lots of things don't make sense, so why not if it helps in game?

We had the same thought! 

[Capybara007]

10 minutes ago, Orty97 said:

Ok, please tell me what NEW fun things you can do with Wolfgang without gym and dumbells now???

The buffs that the mighty mode gets are both specific, you are not gonna be carrying statues everyday nor you will be rowing 24/7 

If klei wants to remove the speed just do it, but as it is now mighty mode offers very limited buffs

I get that maybe the intention is to maybe set up various gym stations in places where you most likely want to be mighty, like in dfly dessert, but this system encourages you to stay wimpy until you actually want it

And this rework did not acomplish the main complain about wolfgang, which is not having team related perks.

[reallychina]

20 minutes ago, Orty97 said:

My main problem is that his perk MIGHTINESS comes from a boring task now. You can save it by eating ofc, but you still need to do the boring thing every other day to get his only perk. I will repeat the two ideeas that i had and loved:

Let Wolfgang juggle the dbells while moving when he is like 90 mightiness. He was in a circus, so that fits perfectly.
And let us have speed when we wanna move and not in combat.(plus slower in whimpy)

I think these 2 are pretty reasonable and fun implementation in the game and would bring life to this character. While not being as OP in combat (even tho as of now COMBAT is the only thing he is good at, period.)

 

Mightiness goes up reasonably fast with the purple dumbbell. 

I'd like them to make the workout station better as in

 

simple boss statues get you x might per push, endgame boss statues (celestial/fw/toadstool) get you 2x might per push

 

and instead of making the sweetspot larger for better statues they split it into 2 areas: one part is very small so hart to hit but gets you 2x might, the other area is larger but gets you normal might. the area that is a failure gets you 0.5x might. so it would look something like this

 

ooooOOxOOoooo

[Orty97]

17 minutes ago, Milordo said:

1) Gym and dumbells

2) Having x2 dmg for much longer, so having more fun on destroy things.

3) Carrying heavy objects. Useful for megabases, other than shadow's fight. 

4) Row faster, better exploring in the sea

5) Throwing dumbells at vary things meaning = you can farm easily a lot of animals like Walter ( birds,rabbits,ecc...), using as a trigger (example Koelefant) and if you're good since it's AOE effect, farming hounds, spiders,ecc... or maybe helping out in a difficult situation? But i don't know the latter, i need to play him more.

 

Now tell me how much this is less fun than "I EAT, I HIT".  It could be more? Absolutely, i would like more things to do with Wolf but my point is all of this is a plus than before. Old Wolfgang was literally nothing, just a buffed Wilson without a beard. Boring as hell.

Ok you can use gym and dumbells without gym and dumbells, perfect logic.
Having 2x dmg isn't new just more convenient.
Ok rowing is nice but is it that fun? lol
5-you use your get mighty resource to get food to keep mighty. Is that fun again?

I EAT, I HIT - to eat you need to get food (going arround facing mobs and farming and fishing and etc is miles better than just click and wait or click on a rythm, no mater how easy it is to get food). And the hit part is still here, and more dumb than ever. You now are funneled into tanking (cuz of heavy armor perk), so even more braindead than eat strategically+ skillfull dodges.

[Milordo]

13 minutes ago, Orty97 said:

Glad you agree with juggling!
Could you ellaborate why you don't agree with the speed change? Maybe i'm understanding it wrong.
But just for general gameplay (not fight or rushes or whatever), having a speed bust is just a very nice QOL imo. But i'm open to counter arguments ofc.

Hmn , okay.

I'll start saying that when we talk about characters, i imagined them having a sorta of etiquette, for gameplay design. Then i watch them obviously in lore, personality, ecc...

I see Wolfgang as a fighting character, not an exploration guy. I see Walter, being a campus boy, as an exploration character. I can see Wortox as an exploration character, since it's nomad and know very well the Costant, staying always in forests, ecc, ecc...

I already talked about this with @Sir Aaron. If i was in the klei team, before even Wolfgang was thought to be the next for rework, in my old imaginary rework i wanted to change the speed to be tied in combat = Wolfgang would obtain the speed bonus only when is fighting something or something want to fights Wolfgang. Another strong point is Wigfrid. She is the tank role, so i see it naturally to transform Wolfgang in the fighthing character where you need to move well, when fighting. 

That's why i disagree with giving him speed boost all the time because it's, unironically, overpowered with it. Especially now that you can have a longer mightness than before, plus all the others new bonuses.

NO, NO, NO. WANDA HAS X2 WHEN AT 20 HP, NOT 200. Sorry, for this last rant xD

[Orty97]

1 minute ago, Milordo said:

Hmn , okay.

I'll start saying that when we talk about characters, i imagined them having a sorta of etiquette, for gameplay design. Then i watch them obviously in lore, personality, ecc...

I see Wolfgang as a fighting character, not an exploration guy. I see Walter, being a campus boy, as an exploration character. I can see Wortox as an exploration character, since it's nomad and know very well the Costant, staying always in forests, ecc, ecc...

I already talked about this with @Sir Aaron. If i was in the klei team, before even Wolfgang was thought to be the next for rework, in my old imaginary rework i wanted to change the speed to be tied in combat = Wolfgang would obtain the speed bonus only when is fighting something or something want to fights Wolfgang. Another strong point is Wigfrid. She is the tank role, so i see it naturally to transform Wolfgang in the fighthing character where you need to move well, when fighting. 

That's why i disagree with giving him speed boost all the time because it's, unironically, overpowered with it. Especially now that you can have a longer mightness than before, plus all the others new bonuses.

NO, NO, NO. WANDA HAS X2 WHEN AT 20 HP, NOT 200. Sorry, for this last rant xD

I like your points. But the new perk with armor just takes Wigfrid's role - tank-, isn't it?
I still stand by my point that him having speed and dmg is OP, but for out of combat scenarios is just nice to have.
No worries for the rant, this is a hot thread for 4 days straight for a reason, isn't it? 

[Capybara007]

6 minutes ago, Milordo said:

That's why i disagree with giving him speed boost all the time because it's, unironically, overpowered with it. Especially now that you can have a longer mightness than before, plus all the others new bonuses.

Longer mightness than before? Before you traded food for mighty, now you trade time doing absolutely nothing/pressing a button in the right time, to achieve mightness

It almost feels like the game encourages you to stay wimpy, because you cant say you are having fun when you have to stop every day to keep mightness

[Orty97]

1 minute ago, Capybara007 said:

Longer mightness than before? Before you traded food for mighty, now you trade time doing absolutely nothing/pressing a button in the right time, to achieve mightness

It almost feels like the game encourages you to stay wimpy, because you cant say you are having fun when you have to stop every day to keep mightness

this!

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Longer mightness than before? Before you traded food for mighty, now you trade time doing absolutely nothing/pressing a button in the right time, to achieve mightness

It almost feels like the game encourages you to stay wimpy, because you cant say you are having fun when you have to stop every day to keep mightness

2 minutes ago, Orty97 said:

this!

last night i used the gym and leave the base but forgot food, i was at top hunger and for some reason though that i already picked the bacon and eggs from the fridge

reach the moose i wanted to kill 1 biome away of my base and killed it with half stomach but still being mighty with his x2 damge for the entire fight. So even doing stupid mistakes you can still being mighty for long periods of time

 

with the old wolfgang i would need to eat during the travel and during the fight while know the mighty meter last for longer and is flat damage

[Milordo]

3 minutes ago, Orty97 said:

Ok you can use gym and dumbells without gym and dumbells, perfect logic.
 

You know this phrase doesn't mean anything right?

4 minutes ago, Orty97 said:

.Having 2x dmg isn't new just more convenient.

Still isn't more fun? Everyone who play Wolfgang want to smash things, right? 

4 minutes ago, Orty97 said:

Ok rowing is nice but is it that fun? lol
5-you use your get mighty resource to get food to keep mighty. Is that fun again?
 

Yes, it depends on the playstyle and people. Remember it's not only food, AT ALL. You're ignoring a lot of things, like Koelefant for a easy heal if you want, triggering krampus to you for farming sacks, AOE damage. I repeat, AOE DAMAGE. You pick Wolfgang for smash things and now you smash them more and farm more, example spiders. 

And YES, it's fun to row now at the speed of light, so i'm not bored exploring all the sea.

4 minutes ago, Orty97 said:

I EAT, I HIT - to eat you need to get food (going arround facing mobs and farming and fishing and etc is miles better than just click and wait or click on a rythm, no mater how easy it is to get food). And the hit part is still here, and more dumb than ever. You now are funneled into tanking (cuz of heavy armor perk), so even more braindead than eat strategically+ skillfull dodges.

Wait, wait, wait ,wait. Tanking? T-Tanking? Why tanking with marble suite if you have now normal speed? Wut?

And why are you specifically stating tanking is braindead. This already shows you having a close mind or don't want to understand, if you think tanking is braindead.

 

So, yes it's like i said. More fun than before.

[Dextops]

2 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Wait, wait, wait ,wait. Tanking? T-Tanking? Why tanking with marble suite if you have now normal speed? Wut?

because kiting with a marble suit is stupid why not just wear a football helmet a marble suits purpose is to tank using it to kite makes no sense

[Milordo]

7 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Longer mightness than before? Before you traded food for mighty, now you trade time doing absolutely nothing/pressing a button in the right time, to achieve mightness

It almost feels like the game encourages you to stay wimpy, because you cant say you are having fun when you have to stop every day to keep mightness

Look this is where i could be wrong. I'm playing it but not as much like i would like too and from the information i gather, yes it's longer than before, even @ArubaroBeefalo confirms it. 

[Seero]

I made this meme for fun, no hard feelings

@csc_unit

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Milordo said:

Look this is where i could be wrong. I'm playing it but not as much like i would like too and from the information i gather, yes it's longer than before, even @ArubaroBeefalo confirms it. 

even if it does last longer it doesn't have enough incentive to actually maintain it

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Seero said:

 

I made this meme for fun, no hard feelings

@csc_unit

that summarizes 90% of comments supporting buffing wolfgang xD

[Dextops]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

that summarizes 90% of comments supporting buffing wolfgang xD

what?