Do you guys think Wurt needs a change?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, pyroisshy said:

please just make the merm king chew faster

i found by accident that you can drop food near a merm sitting on the rub will stand up and start eating like a werepig

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Merms do more damage and can help with resource gathering but they are inferior to spiders in my eyes for combat.

that is fair. Weeber has more control and wurt more uses for them

[Beeremy the III]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The problem is she isn't outclassed by him due to loyalty duration she's outclassed due to the tools and interactions he has.

Merms do more damage and can help with resource gathering but they are inferior to spiders in my eyes for combat.

Spiders are just better than merms, period.

The only time Wurt would have an advantage over Webber is when tromping through the swamp, or when it's spring, since all she needs is a thermal stone for warmth.

Giving Wurt infinite merm loyalty wouldn't step on Webber's toes too much, and it would raise merms a little bit so they're not one hundred percent outclassed by Maxwell's shadows and Webber's spiders.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i found by accident that you can drop food near a merm sitting on the rub will stand up and start eating like a werepig

that is fair. Weeber has more control and wurt more uses for them

It's hard to say wurt has more uses tbh webber's followers handle all of combat below boss tier, can hold light for you, heal you, and can be used as portable non spoiling food when rations run low and all without Wurts multiple issues.

Just now, Beeremy the III said:

Spiders are just better than merms, period.

The only time Wurt would have an advantage over Webber is when tromping through the swamp, or when it's spring, since all she needs is a thermal stone for warmth.

Giving Wurt infinite merm loyalty wouldn't step on Webber's toes too much, and it would raise merms a little bit so they're not one hundred percent outclassed by Maxwell's shadows and Webber's spiders.

Merms don't need infinite loyalty they just need a massive amount of quality of life and a complete king rework.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It's hard to say wurt has more uses tbh webber's followers handle all of combat below boss tier, can hold light for you, heal you, and can be used as portable non spoiling food when rations run low and all without Wurts multiple issues.

healing is a very good perk but the others are nice but not comparable with resorce gathering (think about how much logs, rocks, flint, nitre, marble, ice,gold, etc you waste)

both are good, there is no point of saying one is better in general than the other when they have so different perks

[Beeremy the III]

I think Wurt's main issue is Merms, and the fact that she's practically 3 characters in one.

She has a worse version of Maxwell's shadows, a worse version of Webber or Wortox's monster status since at least they can trade with pig king, and a worse version of WX78's upgrade system that costs more, requires upkeep, and isn't as effective as WX78's upgrades.

If Merm King was changed to require less upkeep by making the merms help out a little, which gives a bit more life to the world of DST, and lets Wurt actually go and do things instead of having to come back to babysit the king. 

Merms AI should also be improved. Make them stop getting stuck. Let them come out in Winter. Have them avoid tentacles, since they can see them.

And don't let Wurt eat corn cod or popperfish anymore, I mean come on.

[Mike23Ua]

Why on earth are you building a Merm King at all?? In all my time playing Wurt I’ve only bothered with that TWICE- because as I pointed out: Once you elect a king Merms become stupid and PASSIVE, when there is no king.. they will aggressively punch anything that dares to come near their houses.

Merm King waste of time, Florp!

I believe if he was meant to be a huge part of Wurts gameplay, then he needs obvious changes… because for now it’s actually BETTER to NOT have a Merm King.

Also I don’t see Wurts followers losing loyalty as being too much of an issue when you can literally just re-hire them again with as little as 1 seed dropped by random bird, a carrot, a juicy berry, a fish.. etc.

I don’t really know HOW to make the Merm King more useful (allowing us to command Merms as to if we want them to be aggressive or passive like Sooth/Rile Abigail..  so building him doesn’t feel like you’ve lost something, MIGHT Help… but other than that- I have no ideas worth suggesting.)

Another thing I want to point out is there are fish in the ocean that provide warmth and cold like a thermal stone- Wurt can actually not have a thermal and just use these fish instead to not only deal with cold/warmth but gain the sanity perk of pet fish.

I forget the official names of these fish but I think one was Sunbrim?

[Szczuku]

Mermking gives out gold.

The only thing I need as Wurt is gold

[Souper]

I think it would be nice if Klei gave the sort of attention they gave to Wanda to every other character in the game. It's kinda sad that the state of the community seems to just accept that Klei, quite frankly, half-asses their characters. Walter is a pure joke, Wurt's quality of life is abysmal, Wickerbottom is practically useless now. There are some small issues with the other characters, but I'd say the best designed are Wigfried, Wanda, Wormwood, Woodie, Wendy, and Maxwell to an extent.

Klei seems to think that coming up with a few nifty tools and then under-supplying those tools with poor QoL is the approach to creating a good character, but it's not. IMO, the character should have a role in mind, and almost everything should be developed around the role that character should fulfill. On top of that, downsides should be introduced to make the gameplay loop unique and somewhat challenging, at least. Wormwood is a fantastic character because he has a very clear role, and his downsides will affect the way you play the game. Wigfrid as well. Walter is horrible because he doesn't really do anything well, and he's not particularly easy to survive with, DESPITE him being a boy scout? They give a character a theme and then don't even build anything around it.. wtf? They give Walter Wobby, but it's literally just a beefalo chester that you get at the beginning, and it's not even as good as a beefalo to begin with. Meanwhile his slingshots are completely and utterly useless unless you just want it for the sake of a different playstyle altogether, but even that makes no sense because the slingshot isnt fun. It's incredibly tedious and boring.

I had lost hope in Klei's character designing capabilities, which honestly I could've lived with. But then they release an awesome character with a cool downside (Wanda) who has a clear role to fulfill. So now I know Klei can develop good characters, they just don't most of the time... which is even more depressing.

All of these bad character designs wouldn't be so bad if Klei didn't take so much time doing them. No offense to Klei, I love their game, and obviously I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but damn Klei takes forever to get these character refreshes out. It's been years, and at this point some of their newly released characters need refreshes (**** you Walter) So if they keep perpetuating this horrible design philosophy, it delays progress to the actual content of the game. If they're going to take so much time with these refreshes, they should at least make damn sure they have good design.

/rant

I really do hope they give Wurt the much needed love she deserves. She's not in a horrible spot, but she is such a cool character who can truly shine if Klei sheds some light on her.

[BiddoBams]

I love Wurt, she's one of my favourite characters. But I rarely use her vanilla mainly because of how wonky merms are, with the main culprit being them getting lost and never returning home. Thankfully Electroelys mod fixes that issue as well as fixing the gaps in her kit in general. Honestly I don't feel like its unfair using that mod since it makes Wurt feel way more complete; such as making the Merms teleport home if lost, making the Merm king offer different things based on fish rarity/size and making the Merm Kings influence work between caves and the surface. I feel those things should be vanilla.

There was also another mod that made Merms have way better fighting AI and I think that would be interesting too. Where the spiders are a strength in numbers kind of deal, merms could be seen as the "smarter" of the recruitable species by kiting bosses better. Their fear immunity is a good starting point.

[Beeremy the III]

Just now, Souper said:

IMO, the character should have a role in mind, and almost everything should be developed around the role that character should fulfill

They messed up here somewhere with Wurt.

Either A. The role in mind for Wurt was to work with the merms. You can replace almost EVERY aspect of her kit with things for bunnymen. Make a bunny king! Bunny warriors instead of merm warriors! Both races don't eat meat, so no problem there. The only things you can't replace are tentacle spotting, swamp boost, and the fact that pigs and merms are at war. Fish can be replaced with trapped bunnies! Wurt could even be just a stinky girl who likes merms and doesn't like pigs, she doesn't even have to be mermish for it to work. The only thing that would change is not being able to run fast in swamp, and not getting a buff from merm king.

Or B. There was no role in mind and they just went wild with Wurt. Kind of like Walter.

[Mysterious box]

54 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

healing is a very good perk but the others are nice but not comparable with resorce gathering (think about how much logs, rocks, flint, nitre, marble, ice,gold, etc you waste)

both are good, there is no point of saying one is better in general than the other when they have so different perks

This is true but there are other methods to farm resources faster and even then aside from rocks oother mining resources don't spawn near you so you have to bring the merms to it and then walk them back home or kill them so they don't get lost and at that point why not just do the mining yourself? As for wood pigs exsist as does bearager and maxwell Merms being able to help gather resources is nice but it's held back by their many problems and easier alternatives.

24 minutes ago, Beeremy the III said:

They messed up here somewhere with Wurt.

Either A. The role in mind for Wurt was to work with the merms. You can replace almost EVERY aspect of her kit with things for bunnymen. Make a bunny king! Bunny warriors instead of merm warriors! Both races don't eat meat, so no problem there. The only things you can't replace are tentacle spotting, swamp boost, and the fact that pigs and merms are at war. Fish can be replaced with trapped bunnies! Wurt could even be just a stinky girl who likes merms and doesn't like pigs, she doesn't even have to be mermish for it to work. The only thing that would change is not being able to run fast in swamp, and not getting a buff from merm king

Truthfully aside from her wetness perk wurt doesn't feel like a merm I know it was done due to balance reasons but then I squint at webber.

42 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why on earth are you building a Merm King at all?? In all my time playing Wurt I’ve only bothered with that TWICE- because as I pointed out: Once you elect a king Merms become stupid and PASSIVE, when there is no king.. they will aggressively punch anything that dares to come near their houses.

Merm King waste of time, Florp!

And you don't see this as a problem?

[Beeremy the III]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Truthfully aside from her wetness perk wurt doesn't feel like a merm I know it was done due to balance reasons but then I squint at webber.

The best part? We had to wait one and a half years for said wetness perk. Which isn't even unique to her, as Wormwood also has it!

[GenomeSquirrel]

All I’d want is adding flints and tentacle spikes to merm king’s drops.

[Souper]

3 hours ago, Beeremy the III said:

The best part? We had to wait one and a half years for said wetness perk. Which isn't even unique to her, as Wormwood also has it!

a plant (which technically can get too wet and die because of it) somehow gets wetness immunity, but a fish whose natural habitat is water doesn't.

Makes sense to me.

I'm convinced time moves 70% slower for Klei, considering how late they push some of these obvious changes.

[Beeremy the III]

7 minutes ago, Souper said:

a plant (which technically can get too wet and die because of it) somehow gets wetness immunity, but a fish whose natural habitat is water doesn't Makes sense to me.

I'm convinced time moves 70% slower for Klei, considering how late they push some of these obvious changes.

Personally, I think Wormwood should be rewarded for keeping his wetness around the half way point with a bit of health regen, or fertilizers being more effective, since plants do need water to grow. But honestly, the fish girl should have started with no wetness penalty. The only thing she can hold against all the other survivors in wetness is having a strong grip. That's it. Can't hold the sanity debuff over Wormwood. A strong grip is the only thing setting the FISH GIRL apart from a plant in regards to wetness.

[Mysterious box]

29 minutes ago, Souper said:

a plant (which technically can get too wet and die because of it) somehow gets wetness immunity, but a fish whose natural habitat is water doesn't Makes sense to me.

I'm convinced time moves 70% slower for Klei, considering how late they push some of these obvious changes.

To make matters worse she freezes from it despite being clearly happy from being wet and other merms always being considered wet. To be fair just pointing out her quote inconsistencies will make your head spin.

[Theukon-dos]

 I Apologize if my words are harsh. But there are some things that must be said.

 

 

Wurt's Florpin' Trash.

 

Sure, she's a beast late game, but everything about her design just oooozes paltryness. Frankly, I'd consider her worse than Walter. Atleast he has some fun concepts beneath excessive layers of fluff.

 

Speed boost from swamp turf and can tell where tentacles are. Fine enough I suppose, Though it would be nice if that second thing worked a bit better in Winter.

Can build merm houses: "Oh boy, a summoner character who can build different structures for different minions? I can't wait to see how many options there are" -{People before Wurt launched, probably

Craft merm houses: These are just pigs. Pigs that arn't scared of the dark, sure. But just pigs none the less. Ah it's not too bad though, these are just the basic summons I'm sure teh rest of them are be-

Merm Florpifications: These are just pigs again. Stronger pigs sure, but fundementally they're just Vegan Pigs.The other summoner characters atleast have interesting dynamics with their minions. Abigail being a single summon with AOE damage, and pre-rework webber being able to ammass hordes of weak minions with minimul investment. But not Wurt. Unless you're looking to punch rocks, nearly any character can do what she does with either pigs or bunnymen.

 

And on top of that, Wurt doesn't evemn *need* her minions. The other summon characters have something their allies help them compensate for. Wendy has lower damage, which Abigail can fill in. And Webber's a monster, way more of the constant is after his silky beard. Wurt though? She hates pigs, sure. But that's about it really. she's just as effective at, say, fighting or harvesting as any other character. She doesn't need minions, especially when you have a King of the Merms alive givcing you some of the highest stats in the game. Oh yeah, that's my next point.

 

King of the merms sucks too.

 

A fat lard who takes a ton of resourcves to build, and then even more resources to upkeep. And for what? stronger pigs and a stat boost? There's basically no reason to keep this guy alive instead of just letitng him waste away until you need to fight something. Oh what's that? Trades. well, if you realy so desire, you could trade some fish for... Kelp, seeds, tentacle spots. And trinkets..That last one's pretty good, you can trade them to the OH WAIT. Wurt can't use trinkets, because her racism of pigs keeps her from trading with the Pig King. Admitedly a pretty good downside, but WHY does the Merm King give you items that are primarily used in a mechanic Wurt can't interect with? It's hopeless, I tell ya.

 

Veganism: Ok this... is actually pretty good. I like this. I don't like how Wurt gets bonus stats from foods she eats. That seems like it defeats the whole purpose. But I like it overall.

 

And then there are other things I could talk about. Like , did you know that Merm flortifications take 12x longer to spawn guards during winter? Or that Craftmerm houses don't spawn merms *at all?* in this season? Why? I dunno.

 

Oh, or how about how Merms don't tell you when they're getting hungry? For a pig knockoff, it's surprising how Klei forgot about some basic functionality from pigs. Y'know?

 

All 'n All. Wurt *is* Strong with the resources put in. Any character with an army is. But her direction and design are just so... Messy. Loose ends and threads that only exist for the sake of it. I'm sorry, but Wurt is just bad.

[Toros]

4 hours ago, Hornete said:

I'd like to see Merm King be expanded on his loot. I'll never understand why Klei never differentiated the loot you get depending on the type of fish and how heavy it is, mind you Wurts release and the ocean fishing update were a month or so apart which is all the more ironic.

 

I dont think Wurt really needs swimming, theres other aspects of her that should be fleshed out or improved before we go adding another perk.

I feel the opposite, I think some of her current and boring perks could be scrapped to make room.

Personally, I say remove the stat boosts from the king, improve his trade options, make him not need food, and let wurt swim.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

 I Apologize if my words are harsh. But there are some things that must be said.

 

 

Wurt's Florpin' Trash.

 

Sure, she's a beast late game, but everything about her design just oooozes paltryness. Frankly, I'd consider her worse than Walter. Atleast he has some fun concepts beneath excessive layers of fluff.

 

Speed boost from swamp turf and can tell where tentacles are. Fine enough I suppose, Though it would be nice if that second thing worked a bit better in Winter.

Can build merm houses: "Oh boy, a summoner character who can build different structures for different minions? I can't wait to see how many options there are" -{People before Wurt launched, probably

Craft merm houses: These are just pigs. Pigs that arn't scared of the dark, sure. But just pigs none the less. Ah it's not too bad though, these are just the basic summons I'm sure teh rest of them are be-

Merm Florpifications: These are just pigs again. Stronger pigs sure, but fundementally they're just Vegan Pigs.The other summoner characters atleast have interesting dynamics with their minions. Abigail being a single summon with AOE damage, and pre-rework webber being able to ammass hordes of weak minions with minimul investment. But not Wurt. Unless you're looking to punch rocks, nearly any character can do what she does with either pigs or bunnymen.

 

And on top of that, Wurt doesn't evemn *need* her minions. The other summon characters have something their allies help them compensate for. Wendy has lower damage, which Abigail can fill in. And Webber's a monster, way more of the constant is after his silky beard. Wurt though? She hates pigs, sure. But that's about it really. she's just as effective at, say, fighting or harvesting as any other character. She doesn't need minions, especially when you have a King of the Merms alive givcing you some of the highest stats in the game. Oh yeah, that's my next point.

 

King of the merms sucks too.

 

A fat lard who takes a ton of resourcves to build, and then even more resources to upkeep. And for what? stronger pigs and a stat boost? There's basically no reason to keep this guy alive instead of just letitng him waste away until you need to fight something. Oh what's that? Trades. well, if you realy so desire, you could trade some fish for... Kelp, seeds, tentacle spots. And trinkets..That last one's pretty good, you can trade them to the OH WAIT. Wurt can't use trinkets, because her racism of pigs keeps her from trading with the Pig King. Admitedly a pretty good downside, but WHY does the Merm King give you items that are primarily used in a mechanic Wurt can't interect with? It's hopeless, I tell ya.

 

Veganism: Ok this... is actually pretty good. I like this. I don't like how Wurt gets bonus stats from foods she eats. That seems like it defeats the whole purpose. But I like it overall.

 

And then there are other things I could talk about. Like , did you know that Merm flortifications take 12x longer to spawn guards during winter? Or that Craftmerm houses don't spawn merms *at all?* in this season? Why? I dunno.

 

Oh, or how about how Merms don't tell you when they're getting hungry? For a pig knockoff, it's surprising how Klei forgot about some basic functionality from pigs. Y'know?

 

All 'n All. Wurt *is* Strong with the resources put in. Any character with an army is. But her direction and design are just so... Messy. Loose ends and threads that only exist for the sake of it. I'm sorry, but Wurt is just bad.

Add fish not stacking and Merms not having names and this sums up my thoughts i like Wurt but she has so much going against her.

[Dextops]

florp

[Keller Max]

1) Make lost merms (any creature with house) teleport to their house instead of unloading him for ever.

2) Better way to control merms. Something to make them aggressive/ protective(will attack anyone who targets you or another hired merm)/passive Attack commands, retreat, etc... (Its so annoying how ai works rn.)

3) Let us dismiss hired merms

4) Passive health regen on merms

5) Way to hire merm for infinity (Like Webber can)

6) Scrap swamp turf speed boost

7) More fish interactions (stacking etc...)

8) Merm king eats faster. No need for second king in cave to get a boost there. Pool of gifts for different fishes (Gems, Gears,... for rare fishes) Small damage buff to Wurt when king is fed.

9) (Big downside) Wurt needs to be wet, or she will get overheated or freezing very easily. Wet wurt will wet mobs with melee attacks. (Ability to take a bath in ocean or ponds to get wetness, watering can, etc...) No sanity decreases

10) Swimming in the ocean

11) Merms can get higher in ranks (Better stats for killing other creatures, gathering mats, etc...)

[Mike23Ua]

Did you ever think that maybe the Merm King giving trinkets is for a lore reason? 
Maybe Fatty Seaweed and Fatty Bacon were once best friends..? Maybe before the pig vs Merm civil war broke out Merm King used to shower Pig King in gifts? And that’s why when you give gifts to Pig King he happily showers you with gold.

Maybe Merm King was given gifts from pig king he chunked into the ocean saying “Me no want this Florping trash!”

Then they tied into it and War broke out and well yeah- The rest is ancient history told on the battleground of a Great War.

[ShadowDuelist]

It would seem to me that Wurt is the DLC character that received the less love post release.

Besides all her bugfixing, starting from merms being lost, and some improvements to the trading system of Merm King and the control over merms, I'd like the "normal" merms to be assigned some roles. 
EG: fishermerms,  Woodchopper merms that also collect and bring you the wood (if they survive the treeguards.) or a dedicated merm that if you leave a fridge full of vegetable food will help you feed the king. Stuff like that.
It'd be really cool if she'd automate bases somewhat, even if it was on 2 or 3 simple things.
 

[GenomeSquirrel]

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

King of the merms sucks too.

 

A fat lard who takes a ton of resourcves to build, and then even more resources to upkeep. And for what? stronger pigs and a stat boost? There's basically no reason to keep this guy alive instead of just letitng him waste away until you need to fight something. Oh what's that? Trades. well, if you realy so desire, you could trade some fish for... Kelp, seeds, tentacle spots. And trinkets..That last one's pretty good, you can trade them to the OH WAIT. Wurt can't use trinkets, because her racism of pigs keeps her from trading with the Pig King. Admitedly a pretty good downside, but WHY does the Merm King give you items that are primarily used in a mechanic Wurt can't interect with? It's hopeless, I tell ya.

 

 

You can give trinkets to catcoons, you might get lucky and get some nice seeds

[Parusoid]

3 hours ago, Souper said:

Wormwood is a fantastic character because he has a very clear role,

and what that role would be? please don't tell me gardening