My Thoughts on Wanda! Plus 1 Mundane Nitpick

[kilobit]

Love Wanda, amazing character! I've loved every second playing as her, and once the craze dies down and there arent 50 Wandas in every server, I'd love to see how I and other players can contribute with her. This is one of the best characters released for DST so far, hands down. She fits in nicely with everyone else, and the role she fills is unique, on top of having fun and interesting gameplay. I think her balancing is just fine, she may sound overpowered on paper, but I feel people forget how expensive her watches are and how low her HP has to be to reach her full potential. She's an excellent character through and through, and was completely worth the cost even on day 1, which is especially amazing since Klei tends to have to spend days (or months... poor Wurt) to tune a character to a satisfactory state. 

Oh yeah, and the mundane nitpick. Wanda's the only DLC character whose ghost isn't affected by skins. Small thing, but I look out for it. Screenshot should show you what I mean.

Sorry Klei. Thanks Klei! This one's a hit.

[Cheggf]

My one nitpick is that her watches aren't expensive at all due to getting 4 more time pieces from using the Celestial Portal. Only a blue or purple gem and a moon rock.

[kilobit]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

My one nitpick is that her watches aren't expensive at all due to getting 4 more time pieces from using the Celestial Portal. Only a blue or purple gem and a moon rock.

Oh yeah, that is definitely an oversight, but I have no idea how they'd fix that

[Hornete]

13 minutes ago, 0bit said:

Oh yeah, and the mundane nitpick. Wanda's the only DLC character whose ghost isn't affected by skins. Small thing, but I look out for it. Screenshot should show you what I mean.

I think the different ghost skins only apply to the monster/non-human characters, because for their skins they're entirely different species and forms, instead of like a outfit like most other skins are. Since Wanda's skins are just outfits, they don't get special ghost skins.

Though still, i'd love to see a ghost skin anyways for every skin.

[HowlVoid]

43 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

My one nitpick is that her watches aren't expensive at all due to getting 4 more time pieces from using the Celestial Portal. Only a blue or purple gem and a moon rock.

To be fair the time pieces aren't hard to get in the game either. With moggles I was able to quickly get enough materials for 5 without ever setting foot in the actual ruins (and there were still more walls around). 

No matter how many ageless watches you have Wanda will still give beginners a hard time (especially if they try to carry 6 or so ageless watches). There are enough materials to make all the watches you'll ever need except maybe the rift ones, but you can't make those any time you want anyways. 

4 ageless watches is probably all I will ever need (3rd for bosses, 4th for bee queen) so I don't think getting tons of time pieces quickly is of great use to anyone. An experienced player is probably going to want to stay in adult form all the time anyways (I do, its very convenient for quickly turning into granny and avoid further damage by dps down my target) so they wont get much use out of tons of ageless watches either.

[Owlrust]

2 hours ago, 0bit said:

Oh yeah, that is definitely an oversight, but I have no idea how they'd fix that

They could probably make Wanda refuse to tear apart any Ageless Watch with her tools. After all, why would she deconstruct what can be amounted to as her only way of not aging? I don't personally care that you can get more stuff with the portal, it's just that there's no objective reason to craft more when this is cheaper.

[Yuuko]

39 minutes ago, Owlrus said:

They could probably make Wanda refuse to tear apart any Ageless Watch with her tools. After all, why would she deconstruct what can be amounted to as her only way of not aging? I don't personally care that you can get more stuff with the portal, it's just that there's no objective reason to craft more when this is cheaper.

How would this fix her getting more time pieces via celestial portal rebirth?

idk how Klei could address this...  The celestial portal is not a hard upgrade, and activating it is super cheap.  No reason to craft by the recipe when you can get them for just an idol...  But what's the fix?  She has to get 1 ageless clock on spawn.  They could nerf by reducing her timepieces, but then it inhibits her early game so she can't get into her other watches for a proper early game...  idk...

tbh - I'm not worried about this being fixed.  Its cheese, but I like cheese.  Its not like getting thulecite pieces is that hard now that we have dust collectors lol  I put this on tier with asking for nerfs to other resources farms.

[Ohan]

32 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Its not like getting thulecite pieces is that hard now that we have dust collectors lol

Max amount of fragments u can get if ur insanely lucky from 1 den is 7 so u need at least two dens to get enough fragments for 1 time piece. That is considerably more effort than just 1 moon rock and 1 blue gem for 24 thul frags. Its an absurd exploit similar to the alarming clocks ability to stun lock bosses including phase two celestial champion. Oh and it can also do this:

Wanda is stupid good, too good for my taste. Another wendy  idrc though, no skin off my back etc 

[Yuuko]

28 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Max amount of fragments u can get if ur insanely lucky from 1 den is 7 so u need at least two dens to get enough fragments for 1 time piece. That is considerably more effort than just 1 moon rock and 1 blue gem for 24 thul frags. Its an absurd exploit similar to the alarming clocks ability to stun lock bosses including phase two celestial champion. Oh and it can also do this:

Wanda is stupid good, too good for my taste. Another wendy  idrc though, no skin off my back etc 

You can stun lock bosses with cat o three tails too.  Its not a bug, its a feature of ranged combat.  The alarming clock doesn't trade off damage the way the cat whip does, but its not like I didn't expect this interaction when I saw her weapon was a whip...

[Owlrust]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

How would this fix her getting more time pieces via celestial portal rebirth?

I'm gonna be honest, I did not remember that she also starts with 3 Time Pieces; so this balance got a bit harder. One idea I did have is that instead of starting with the time pieces she starts with 1x Ageless Watch, 1x Second Chance Watch, and 1x Backstep Watch with the recipe for the Clockmaker's Tools being altered to require thulecite fragments.

This way in theory you would have access to most of the early game watches that you would make from the beginning while also requiring the player to travel to the ruins; and by that point, you're better off making more time pieces than to deconstruct it.

[HowlVoid]

15 minutes ago, Owlrus said:

I'm gonna be honest, I did not remember that she also starts with 3 Time Pieces; so this balance got a bit harder. One idea I did have is that instead of starting with the time pieces she starts with 1x Ageless Watch, 1x Second Chance Watch, and 1x Backstep Watch with the recipe for the Clockmaker's Tools being altered to require thulecite fragments.

That would hurt cautious players from getting extra early ageless watches from digging up graves and gutsy players from rushing an alarming clock.

I kinda like how Klei left it up to us to decide what we want to craft. :/

They just need to increase the price of the idols. They're too cheap, maybe THEY should require thelucite. I mean, it really does feel like a ruins/late game ability (switching characters).

[Yuuko]

nb4: WANDA IS JUST A PICK N SWITCH FOR WANDA!!! lol

11 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

They just need to increase the price of the idols. They're too cheap, maybe THEY should require thelucite. I mean, it really does feel like a ruins/late game ability (switching characters).

This is true - the celestial portal its self is more the problem.  If an idol costed more, maybe even requiring some thulecite or glass, or its self requiring a trip to ruins / lunar island, it would balance a lot of ppl's gripes about char swapping.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

I think that to fix the portal they could do that, if a player that played that server for +X days, doesnt spawn with the unique character items (unless cant be crafted) in that way we also fix getting a complete warly's kitchen for few moonrock, needing to destroy walters slingshot and wendys flowee, etc

[Maxil20]

5 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I think that to fix the portal they could do that, if a player that played that server for +X days, doesnt spawn with the unique character items (unless cant be crafted) in that way we also fix getting a complete warly's kitchen for few moonrock, needing to destroy walters slingshot and wendys flowee, etc

I agree with this point. Simply making it so the celestial portal doesn’t spawn you with character items after you have already swapped to the character once would certainly help avoid being able to easily “farm” Wanda’s watches. Would also be nice to avoid being constantly given abigail flowers and the like.

[Echsrick]

my nitpick is that not EVERY character has its unique ghost look depending on skin

[Seero]

12 hours ago, Cheggf said:

My one nitpick is that her watches aren't expensive at all due to getting 4 more time pieces from using the Celestial Portal. Only a blue or purple gem and a moon rock.

maybe that feature could be removed, every character gets their starting gear except wanda when celestial portaling

i'd rather not, I don't really care but if it had to be fixed, change that

[Horsheen]

Yeah the celestial portal is a thing I've been abusing a lot as Wanda. The idol cost needs to go up, or a cooldown needs to be implemented because it's rather ridiculous how often you can swap characters.

[me real life]

17 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

They just need to increase the price of the idols. They're too cheap, maybe THEY should require thelucite. I mean, it really does feel like a ruins/late game ability (switching characters).

This to me feels like it would be a change very in line with the suggestion I heard so much of making Winona catapults require frazzled wires. Moon rock idols requiring thulecite won't make them any more expensive for people who already raid the ruins a ton (it's the most plentiful resource there), but it will make it much much harder to swap characters for both less-experienced players and players who simply don't enjoy the ruins. It's essentially changing a feature that fits most any playstyle, in a way that makes it an extra reward for a more specific playstyle while making it inaccessible to many of the people who were already using it.

I'd prefer idols just stay the way they are. It's a PvE game, if something feels super super broken to anyone, they can simply choose not to abuse it or play with people who abuse it. Maybe if every pub was suddenly full of Wandas using idols constantly to farm time pieces then it would be something that should be addressed, but at the moment I don't see any issue personally.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Sunset Skye said:

This to me feels like it would be a change very in line with the suggestion I heard so much of making Winona catapults require frazzled wires.

One is an exclusive craft to a character and the other is an optional feature found in-game. They're two completely different things.

Quote

Moon rock idols requiring thulecite won't make them any more expensive for people who already raid the ruins a ton (it's the most plentiful resource there), but it will make it much much harder to swap characters for both less-experienced players and players who simply don't enjoy the ruins.

Fair. It was the first thing that popped into my head. As I stated above I don't much care for this being fixed as I don't see a surplus of time pieces as being broken.

Quote

I'd prefer idols just stay the way they are. It's a PvE game, if something feels super super broken to anyone, they can simply choose not to abuse it or play with people who abuse it.

Whether this was a pve game or not is irrelevant, just ask the DST team as they continue to patch exploits. If game strives to have a healthy balance of power, balance suggestions should always be welcome. 

Quote

Maybe if every pub was suddenly full of Wandas using idols constantly to farm time pieces then it would be something that should be addressed, but at the moment I don't see any issue personally.

Irrelevant, it doesn't matter to what length an exploit is abused, only if that exploit should remain in the game. Which is what the thread was discussing. 

There is also the possibility that the dev team does not want this exploit either.

I'll also add that the Wicker swap exploit, that allows one to accumulate a large amount of papyrus, was already present long before Wanda. I'm sure the dev team is aware and this isn't an oversight. 

As stated above, having tons of ageless watches isn't beneficial, its like a ton of 2min cooldown blue mushrooms that take one slot each. The rift watches are also balanced around the need of a Mctusk tusk. I personally don't see this exploit as broken either.

[Frosty_Mentos]

Overall building celestial portal takes similarly more or less similar amount of time as raiding ruins, considering her kit that she requires just some thulecite scraps in the end it won't make much of a difference if she gets those pieces from the portal by often resets or not. 

Once Wanda finishes building her watches she really doesn't need anymore since time pieces are indestructible and can be retrieved from previous watches. She has a unique challenge in acquiring her gear that she needs but her gameplay doesn't revolve in making more than several different watches. It's all about being very low on time and careful plays. 

Unlike the tons of food around the world that you can both grab and use then bundle for later heals - her watches take up inventory space and has cooldowns. Good timing, good kiting and knowing what you can and can't face takes skill and knowledge to be good at playing her.

In conclusion - Celestial portal doesn't make Wanda more overpowered with getting more time pieces since she can just do it herself early as rushing ruins if she wants to cause she only needs a certain amount of them to be at optimal potential. Thinking things through and your opponents is the key to triumph, your clock's ticking so always keep an eye on it. Can't compare her to other characters cause others can make a plenty of pierogi and eat them anytime while she cannot gain it's health bonus. Peak potential only sparks at lowest health which is where you're likely to die at any dumb moment.

Speaking all from experience that I've had so far since Wanda's release. Changing characters at the portal doesn't change too much of gameplay besides unlock special benefits that you can craft or cook for convenience. Every player plays any way they want to play the game, balancing towards Wanda or the portal doesn't feel necessary at all besides that this is an encouragement that there needs to be more balancing in buffing the most underrated characters greatly.

[QuartzBeam]

5 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

time pieces are indestructible

[Frosty_Mentos]

Just now, QuartzBeam said:

oh right, that exists

[ShadowDuelist]

Reaching the point of having the celestial portal built takes time which would have been better spent cleaning the archives or the ruins themselves. And with that alone you can have most of the time pieces you will ever need.

The Wanda-Wanda swap is a small cheese that can be made in the late game to continue making backtrek watches cheaply as you keep getting tusks, it’s definitely not a big deal.

I think the long overdue change at this point is to have a generous cooldown for the celestial portal after use, which should have been like that from the beginning.

Being able to stay as a character with building/farming advantages and swapping right before boss fights to Wolfgang, then right before gathering to Maxwell and then swapping back to Warly to cook or wormwood to keep farming, like if it was equipping and unequipoing a tool defeats the purpose entirely of having different characters or cons. 
 

I think the celestial portal was meant to make the game a little less tedious by not having to spend an eternity with the same character, not a cheesing strategy of having the most advantageous character for every single situation every 10 minutes. Not even in the late game.

Even after changing if you had to stay as such character for a considerably long while, would solve most of the celestial problems and would help the “swap” characters a bit too.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

I think is more expensive to waste moonrock than 1.33 thulecite per time piece and as other said, it takes longer meanwhile you can get thulecite in the 1st autumn

That doesnt mean that the portal shouldnt be checked, is dumb to passively build a warly kitchen by just wasting idols to swap to him to make op foods or weeber having an expensive recipe for spidereggs than spaming swaping the portal (anyways you dont need spidereggs but is a flaw in the portal's desing)

[X-lem]

My nitpick: Remove the health increase sound every time she ages. It breaks the illusion that it's an age meter and just makes it seem like a health reskin. And it's a bit annoying :/ Maybe replace it with a subtle clock theme sound.