[Spaced Out! Update] - 459378

[babba]

6 hours ago, marioespinho said:

If one hates space travel, so i assume they will still hate it when the time comes to get the high tier materials, while wanting everything on one asteroid, then why is that person playing Spaced Out in the first place?

...

Maybe I have overlooked it. Did some state that they hate space travel ?

I, for example, love space travel - The main issue with the vanilla game was that space was too hard to reach and master, which Klei also admitted in past communications and then defined this problem as dlc to-work-on goal.

Someone wrote that sugar ( enables easy simple rocket start ) is missing in dlc terra classic, I find this is another valid (renewable?) resource spawn request. From my point of view these kind of player requests are to satisfy those which like to work on a "strong" base,without worrying about other asteroid connections and resource dependencies, and for players which want to design their own lovely base in peace with not too much big worries.

From my point of view Klei is able to repair and change broken spawn locations, spawn designs, spawn content ( getting true cold water geysers/basic metal volcanos in easy classified start maps ) and spawn errors which have been raised in various posts and threads - This includes fixing faults like teleporters leading in to space or lava + optionally being able to deactivate the teleporter spawning in the world setup stage. As others have pointed out in this or other threads, there is still lots of displacement issues on other asteroids - Is see this all as a part of a cleanup and fix process, on what spawns where and how.

I very much hope that Klei lets rockets fly their entire flight path through a map in the future, as rocket launches are the beginning of my space travel and they currently break my immersion as they warp away/disappear after lifting off for a short distance through the map. Also all the player rocket port and cargo complaints still need to be worked on by Klei.

Future genetics content hopefully enables somehow to re-integrate/revive extinct critters in to a map, this also can help beginners.

Anybody who has used the editor at least once is already a "pro" in my eyes, using the editor is not what most regular customers do ( as a guess ). There is a lot of players which would like to have an easy start map on asteroids, on maps which Klei defines as "easy", with conditions "ideal": "Terra" and "Swamp". A certain portion of these kind of players either do not visit this or the Steam forum at all or only read, but often never post.

One can analyze the reviews in detail to point various things out, here are the 2 current situation screenshots.

To finalize... I like to fly out to space for 2 reasons: To aquire high level materials + to get much more resource stuff to my base, that is my personal play style.

Klei defined "Easy/Ideal" maps should be ( temperature ) easy, especially for beginners and have all the basic materials/fluids the average player likes to toy around with as renewable spawns. IMHO the deeper a player gets in to space, the harder and more challenging resource aquisition and space exploration should become.

The day Regolith/Meteors return, in some form or the other, will be a celebration day for me

Edited April 11, 2021 by babba

[marioespinho]

1 hour ago, babba said:

Maybe I have overlooked it. Did some state that they hate space travel ?

I, for example, love space travel - The main issue with the vanilla game was that space was too hard to reach and master, which Klei also admitted in past communications and then defined this problem as dlc to-work-on goal.

Someone wrote that sugar ( enables easy simple rocket start ) is missing in dlc terra classic, I find this is another valid (renewable?) resource spawn request. From my point of view these kind of player requests are to satisfy those which like to work on a "strong" base,without worrying about other asteroid connections and resource dependencies, and for players which want to design their own lovely base in peace with not too much big worries.

I was replying to the quoted comment, wich mentioned people that could hate space travel.

Well, if you don't have sucrose, you still have CO2 that fills the same purpose as a low tier rocket, right? So instead of requesting what isn't there, why don't those players adapt and play the game how it's supposed to be? To me it just feels that people have some sort of resistance to change, and instead of trying to go out of their comfortable zone a bit, they just complain until they have it "easy" again.

2 hours ago, babba said:

A certain portion of these kind of players either do not visit this or the Steam forum at all or only read, but often never post.

One can analyze the reviews in detail to point various things out, here are the 2 current situation screenshots.

Well, i'll just copypasta some of the negative reviews, so that we can have an ideia of the spaced out release issues:

----------------------------

"I hate this update. It adds very little, don't address the issues before the update and just made the game 10x more annoying to me"

----------------------------

"I do not suggest to buy DLC at its current stage. The original vanilla game is great!!!
If you did not play ONI, just buy the vanilla game. DLC is not ready: there are a lot of bugs - I have "black holes" - game crashes every day. The content is meh and it looks like the devs went the wrong way in spite of feedback from beta testers (the last radioactive update really made me writing the negative feedback). There are some QoL improvements over the vanilla game - more plants and animals, better search menu for materials but all that is negated by:
The starting world is very small and additional (currently 6) asteroids are tiny. If you combine all together, it will be much smaller than the vanilla game world."

----------------------------

"I personally believe it is not worth ~$14 (depending on your country) because if i paid ~$27 for the game itself, then the DLC should come free of charge or at least less than $5. The game is cool but not worth what it costs"

----------------------------

"You ruined my favorite game with a bad DLC.

Plz fix Atmo Suits and research. Why not just add cool stuff? Why change the game?

Will change the review to positive if you at least fix atmo suits."

 

Summing it all up, "Why does this game have a lot of bugs, event though you stated SINCE THE BEGGINING that it was early acess? Also why did you charge for it whan you could have added it to the main game free of charge? Bleh, you made the game harder(different) and i feel 10x more annoyed by it"

To me : Entitlement, refusal to change and complaints about something that is optional. These were some of the "most useful" comments, i didn't scroll down to see all of them.

[babba]

I spent a bit of time just now reading through the negative dlc steam reviews:

- Small maps

- Regular updates require fresh saves

- Game performance

- Bugs and crashes

- The time phase where mods didn`t work

- Some wrote that they struggled with starting resources

- Multi colony micromanagement complaints

Edited April 11, 2021 by babba

[Tytan]

29 minutes ago, babba said:

I spent a bit of time just now reading through the negative dlc steam reviews:

- Small maps

- Regular updates require fresh saves

- Game performance

- Bugs and crashes

- The time phase where mods didn`t work

- Some wrote that they struggled with starting resources

- Multi colony micromanagement complaints

people don't know what early access means.

and the most fun, they know how to complain and they don’t know how to update their criticisms ...
because some things have already been corrected of the complaints

[babba]

11 minutes ago, Tytan said:

people don't know what early access means.

and the most fun, they know how to complain and they don’t know how to update their criticisms ...
because some things have already been corrected of the complaints

The rating system is open once a product has launched on Steam, in this case its an Early Access Product. My dlc rating is up to date, it is still negative. I do hope that Klei continues to work on the reviewers critic voices Touch wood.

I considered starting a new save but decided that the latest preview update is not worth it.

Are you fully happy or do you have any wishes for the ongoing dlc development ? Your view of things would be interesting to hear

Edited April 11, 2021 by babba

[spkthed]

Most reviewers are people who are frustrated at something and want to vent. It takes a really motivated fanbase to do positive reviews to the point that ONI has. Also, I don't think most people will review an early access item until it's mostly baked.

In short, the reviews on steam are a loosely useful measure of what people find most annoying, but not a reflection of people actually think about it - if nothing more than most people, myself included, aren't judging it as a whole yet.

[Gurgel]

22 minutes ago, Tytan said:

people don't know what early access means.

Pretty much. If the pandemic has made one thing absolutely clear to me, it is that most people are stupid and do not even have a basic understanding of how things work in reality. At the same time, they vastly overestimate their own skills and insights and live in the fantasy that they actually understand things pretty well. Flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers are nowhere as extreme as I thought before this.

While countless games have been ruined by listening too much to the complainers, I do not see that happening with ONI. Klei has demonstrated time and again that they look at actual arguments and no just at who screams loudest. 

In the case at hand, the ONI DLC is in no way finished and treating it as finished is just stupid. Reviewing it at this time (when you get only one review) is equally stupid. 

 

14 minutes ago, spkthed said:

Most reviewers are people who are frustrated at something and want to vent. 

Vent enough, destroy the thing you want. Stupid.

[Tytan]

1 hour ago, babba said:

Are you fully happy or do you have any wishes for the ongoing dlc development ? Your view of things would be interesting to hear

since you asked for my opinion, I will say

for me, the game is still what it is just because of this dlc, it is still very good in the same way, I cannot simply say that this dlc was below the base game, since it is the base game with additional, so for me the math is simple:

if I gave 10/10 for the base game, there would be no way for me to give less than 10/10 for the dlc, it is still the same game!

but nothing is perfect, i have just over 2300 hours of gameplay, but the last time i stopped to actually play was before the dlc beta preview, exactly because i know that playing beta and playing early access is wanting to suffer.

my problems with the game are still the same, lag in the late game is sad, but it is the fate of most of these games, I usually do saves with more than 3000 cycles, so I myself can't wait for anything more than lag.

I also didn’t like the smaller map factor, of course, maybe that was the strategy to solve a lot of lag in the late game since they wanted to create an idea of several maps, so they just took the main map and divided it into smaller maps .

I'm not playing the dlc, I'm basically just checking in to see what's new, testing a build in the sandbox, because that's what early acces is, today it works one way, tomorrow it's another, I have no problems with mods because I hardly use them, but it's always a development process.

I didn’t like the new rocket system, I found the previous system more reliable, the current one is simpler and with me, I understand the factor of being too hard for little gain from the previous one, but the fact that space travel has become so necessary due to the smaller planets displeased me;
the truth at the end is: we are lucky for what klei represents, someone who apparently listens to us and wishes the best for his own game in order to hear our complaints and directions.

1 hour ago, Gurgel said:

Vent enough, destroy the thing you want. Stupid.

as gurgel said: how many games have not been ruined exactly for giving what fans thought they should have, or worse: how many games are not ruined simply because negative reviews plummet game sales?
the luck in this case is how close the developers are to us, listening to our bugs, we must continue to give them feedback on the problems the game has and what we want, the only thing we shouldn't be: feel as if the game had to be the way we want to be and as there is a meme here in Brazil "curse a lot on twitter" just because they added something or took something we wanted because it didn’t look the way WE imagined it, what we can do is always make our contributions in a constructive way.

what I expect from ONI is the same as what I won with the DS, a game in constant development and attention from Klei, I was anxious whenever I opened the DS because there was always a new date for something new to be added in the game, and even after years of gameplay the game is still alive and with many updates, that's what I expect here: a live game, with a long and prosperous life

sorry I have the habit of stretching in everything I do
Anyway, I'm waiting for the game to be stable and with a late game with more fps

[Technoincubus]

On 4/10/2021 at 10:20 AM, SharraShimada said:

But why? I put everything into the small asteroid a had on the big one before. The only difference is fewer unused open spaces. Area i dont use, i do not need.

It is empty. You reach that two water sources and you know that there is nothing else but three volcanoes on this rock and to get more content you have to play a waiting game by building a rocket and get some seeds\critters from other planets.

It was a boring quagmire of a game, not even close to "classic" fun..

[sakura_sk]

1 hour ago, Technoincubus said:

It was a boring quagmire of a game, not even close to "classic" fun..

It's interesting how everyone has a different point of view of "classic" vs DLC 

My point of view is the same in reverse: I found "classic" boring and a never ending digging/building chore while I have fun in DLC spending less time waiting for dig/builds and more time exploring.

[Sasza22]

1 hour ago, Technoincubus said:

It is empty. You reach that two water sources and you know that there is nothing else but three volcanoes on this rock and to get more content you have to play a waiting game by building a rocket and get some seeds\critters from other planets.

It was a boring quagmire of a game, not even close to "classic" fun.

I guess the main problem with small asteroids is that we get less random geysers. And the random geysers were what made exploring most fun. You saw that little neutronium foundation and you knew you might get something you will build your base around. Now the worlds are lacking that. We just get one or two random geysers and the starmap spoils the types so we just are left to find them.

The thing is some of us wanted space exploration to have destinations as separate maps, we just didn`t know how much it would cost us. The game being unfinished and worldgen being wonky just adds to the feeling of it being a downgrade. Remember before we got a seed base and some peple only played seeds with cold slush and multiple natural gas geysers. Now with much less resources overall we need to adapt and some of us don`t enjoy playing like that.

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, Sasza22 said:

I guess the main problem with small asteroids is that we get less random geysers. And the random geysers were what made exploring most fun. You saw that little neutronium foundation and you knew you might get something you will build your base around. Now the worlds are lacking that. We just get one or two random geysers and the starmap spoils the types so we just are left to find them.

The thing is some of us wanted space exploration to have destinations as separate maps, we just didn`t know how much it would cost us. The game being unfinished and worldgen being wonky just adds to the feeling of it being a downgrade. Remember before we got a seed base and some peple only played seeds with cold slush and multiple natural gas geysers. Now with much less resources overall we need to adapt and some of us don`t enjoy playing like that.

Well, true. But if I want the old exploration game, I will play the base-game (and I fully expect that I _will_ do that again at some time). The DLC is not "more of the same" + Rocketry. It is a different game at the moment.

With the larger starting asteroid, it has gone back to a state before all these geysers became available (and people were playing back then) and that is a good direction, IMO. Sure, there is a risk as performance may exclude or inconvenience too many players. But the World-gen is maybe 50% done for the DLC and realistically, the really good extensions in the base-game (multiple, quite-different worlds) came late. The same will probably happen here.

[babba]

57 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Well, true. But if I want the old exploration game, I will play the base-game (and I fully expect that I _will_ do that again at some time). The DLC is not "more of the same" + Rocketry. It is a different game at the moment.

...

At same point the game should melt more together, otherwise base game buyers/players will continue to often say "This is a different game". I find that this is what all the problem is about and has always been since the dlc release.

> Big maps became small maps

> Players are expected to collect resources from another ( teleporter ) map

> World generation settings removed

> Regolith removed

> 1st map has very limited and predictable renewables ( good point @Sasza22 )

I find the whole content of the DLC great, it just needs to be put "on top of classic". Things should be optional and choosable by the player, instead of enforcing certain ways to play the game.

One wants high tech materials, mega tons of resources and the most fancy and exquisit items ? Then fly to space and explore.

Hopefully the game is merged by the end of the year and I can start my final fresh save game.

Edited April 12, 2021 by babba

[Gurgel]

53 minutes ago, babba said:

At same point the game should melt more together, otherwise base game buyers/players will continue to often say "This is a different game". I find that this is what all the problem is about and has always been since the dlc release.

Sure. But I do not think Klei has removed anything. I think they needed to re-implement a lot of things to make the DLC possible, and the "removed", features are instead not in there yet.

Also remember that software is hard and if you do not move carefully, you end up with a wreck that cannot be fixed.

[evilcat19xx]

5 hours ago, Gurgel said:

they vastly overestimate their own skills and insights and live in the fantasy that they actually understand things pretty well. Flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers are nowhere as extreme as I thought before this.

While countless games have been ruined by listening too much to the complainers, I do not see that happening with ONI. Klei has demonstrated time and again that they look at actual arguments and no just at who screams loudest. 

It is not limited to this game or the gaming industry. Here you see a person spam their comments (which they believe is correct) in EVERY post. Something like, "There is this item in the game, and only because of that one thing, this game is ruined , and it is 0/10".  

Somewhere else you see: The KLEI joined Tencent, "let's review bomb the steam, and literally ruin jobs and lives". 

Outside of the gaming industry, Look at the "cancel culture"; they are always looking for their next pray. So many lives destroyed by vocal minorities. Just by a tweet a person lost their life without any evidence...

5 hours ago, Gurgel said:

I do not see that happening with ONI

I am not sure about that. There are many cases that the game company changed their directions just because of a vocal minority. 

Games are become more and more bland these days. Just look at the player characters in the new games, all of them are genderless. Because game developers are afraid of these dangerous mobs. 

 

[babba]

26 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Sure. But I do not think Klei has removed anything. I think they needed to re-implement a lot of things to make the DLC possible, and the "removed", features are instead not in there yet.

Also remember that software is hard and if you do not move carefully, you end up with a wreck that cannot be fixed.

I guess they are under certain pressure always anyway, we should buy @Ipsquiggle some Uranium Coffee Machine which is operated by the friendly Gremlin. I put some nice green C&C crystals in to my hot bath earlier.

... "babba always gives me a ship wreck photo on preview efforts"

24 minutes ago, evilcat19xx said:

Games are become more and more bland these days. Just look at the player characters in the new games, all of them are genderless. Because game developers are afraid of these dangerous mobs.

Bubble Bobble was good, it had multiplayer ! The only mob was sitting in front of the screen

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by babba

[n_t_p]

Game should be easy to start, hard to master. Swamp start is easy, lots of free oxygen.

 

Add meteorites to lava planet. They only start after landing the first trailblazer module, and regolith breaks itself above the map boundary so additional trailblazers will always be possible to land, preventing soft lock. That'd make it hard to master.

[marioespinho]

2 hours ago, sakura_sk said:

My point of view is the same in reverse: I found "classic" boring and a never ending digging/building chore while I have fun in DLC spending less time waiting for dig/builds and more time exploring.

I also feel like this. Base game always felt like more like a waiting game than an exploring game when i went past the first couple hundred cycles.

In spaced out, i saw myself even using basic tech after 200/300 cycles in, because i needed to adapt to a different planet, with almost no infrastructures in place. Or having to think how to dig in order to get to oil without suits. Or even having a real feeling of space exploration since i now have to manage a dupe's interaction with a planet instead of sending a rocket and waiting for it to come back.

2 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

I guess the main problem with small asteroids is that we get less random geysers. And the random geysers were what made exploring most fun. You saw that little neutronium foundation and you knew you might get something you will build your base around. Now the worlds are lacking that. We just get one or two random geysers and the starmap spoils the types so we just are left to find them.

I felt like that a lot when i first tried the smaller maps. But over time i felt like i like the tradeoff more. Now it's more than just slap a volcano tamer, connect pipes and forget it. Managing how the resources get to the main base feel nice to me.

Edited April 12, 2021 by marioespinho

[babba]

@marioespinho @sakura_sk I love the new playstyle too...Its about Klei combining and making it possible that players can play the playstyle they prefer and want. We are all closer together than we think

Classic playstyle and dlc playstyle do not need to exclude each other, Klei can make it possible via world generation settings + make it possible to choose and play the preferred playstyle as the game is being played. Lots of critic points ( and praises ) have already been raised by lots of forumistas involved

Edited April 12, 2021 by babba

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, evilcat19xx said:

It is not limited to this game or the gaming industry.

Most definitely not. And it is far more destructive in other places. And if society would not generally frown upon it, I firmly believe these people would escalate to murder, especially the "cancellers". Fortunately, they are all cowards when it comes to personal consequences.

[goboking]

2 hours ago, evilcat19xx said:

Games are become more and more bland these days. Just look at the player characters in the new games, all of them are genderless.

What a patently absurd thing to say.  Many of the most acclaimed games from recent years feature gendered protagonists.

Edited April 12, 2021 by goboking

[babba]

IMHO quite an character shape definition design advancement, compared to the times of Team Fortress II ... which was a pioneer of its time.

1 hour ago, goboking said:

What a patently absurd thing to say.  Many of the most acclaimed games from recent years feature gendered protagonists.

Edited April 12, 2021 by babba

[Tytan]

5 hours ago, babba said:

At same point the game should melt more together, otherwise base game buyers/players will continue to often say "This is a different game". I find that this is what all the problem is about and has always been since the dlc release.

> Big maps became small maps

> Players are expected to collect resources from another ( teleporter ) map

> World generation settings removed

> Regolith removed

> 1st map has very limited and predictable renewables ( good point @Sasza22 )

I find the whole content of the DLC great, it just needs to be put "on top of classic". Things should be optional and choosable by the player, instead of enforcing certain ways to play the game.

One wants high tech materials, mega tons of resources and the most fancy and exquisit items ? Then fly to space and explore.

Hopefully the game is merged by the end of the year and I can start my final fresh save game.

_

4 hours ago, Gurgel said:

Sure. But I do not think Klei has removed anything. I think they needed to re-implement a lot of things to make the DLC possible, and the "removed", features are instead not in there yet.

Also remember that software is hard and if you do not move carefully, you end up with a wreck that cannot be fixed.

 

I believed and I would even say sure, that all these things that were removed they will return, I myself doubt that they will leave tons of solar energy for free

as well as a finer adjustment of the map generation settings, the current one gives the feeling that: "but I have few options for modification" but this is obviously because it is in tests, it would not do any good to leave it free and they will not be able to test what they want. like for example: when I was testing one that I did I tested the stage directly which I wanted to see if it was okay and not playing stage by stage to get to it

about the generations of the world, the old one was also totally predictable, I think the only thing that couldn’t be predicted was the geodes, which could be anything, and I believe that they should create more things like that, more things to encourage exploration, who knows materials that you don't know until you can get close or with some science machine at the base

I agree that going to another planet to get resources seems to me quite bleh, especially when they are resources that are basic to build something, there is a lack of leveling, as well as small maps, I will not say that they limit creativity, but they limit, as well as if it is not this is going to be the fps

but it's like I said before, for me it's a lot and still testing, I myself still feel that the system will still change about 2x before leaving early access, but criticisms have to be made

[evilcat19xx]

Note: this is out of scope of this post.

1 hour ago, goboking said:

What a patently absurd thing to say.

Note2: You may need to work on the way you articulate your opinions. When you use the word "absurd", you close the door for any further conversation. Anyway:

 

Is it really "absurd"?

First of all, I did not say that all games are becoming like that. It is a slow trend which is especially true for the games that produce here in the North America.

Look at the recent popular games: Among us, and Fall Guys. Do you see a pattern there? It may be an artistic choice, but isn't it a lot easier to avoid the controversies if our characters have either no gender, or they be "gender fluid".

2 hours ago, goboking said:

Many of the most acclaimed games from recent years feature gendered protagonists.

Like what? The last of us part 2, or Mass Effect Andromeda. If there be any hints of traditional gender based roles, game developers need to answer to an army of online twitter critiques. They will review bomb the game, email the potential buyers, try to remove them from the world.

For the game awards here in NA, there are many rules about gender related stuff. If they are not "inclusive" enough, they are not allowed to win any awards.  

look, they are trying to kill the Harry Potter game before it even releases, because of one comment for the J K Rowling. Poor developers.

There are many related events/controversies for you to check: Mortal Kombat, Battlefield 5, ...

 

 

When I am thinking about Oni, I am always thinking why we can't have child dupes. Protecting them, can be another great goal in the game! But either as an artistic choice ,or because developers are trying to avoid any controversies, there is no option for that (I know about the Oni lore).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[goboking]

15 minutes ago, evilcat19xx said:

Like what?

Like The Witcher 3.  Like God of War.  Like Horizon Zero Dawn and Red Dead Redemption and Shadows Die Twice.  Like Breath of the Wild.  Like Death Stranding.  I don't know why you felt compelled to drag gender politics into the discussion, but pointing to genderless avatars in lighthearted games like Among Us and Fall Guys isn't a convincing argument that "traditional gender based roles" are under siege by "dangerous mobs".