Please dont tell me i have to wait another year for Webber's rework.

[Mike23Ua]

37 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Webber is not a bad character to play solo, he covers the basic needs of food, sleeping and healing salves almost instantly, but he never progresses beyond that.  And for a team he really doesn’t have much to offer, unless nobody else handles the spiders and/or the Wendys of the team are really bad at the game still.

Webber has fallen behind with his perks by a lot compared to any other character, specially the reworked ones. I mean what is his role now?

- Want to farm spiders? Get Wendy, or just plant 5 bunny hutches in any corner of your base and collect spider loot passively every day, forever.

- Want to be a powerful army commander? Get Wurt. Spiders don’t really work very well beyond hound waves or killing treeguards. Wurt on the other hand grows to be able to kill bosses effortlessly, to clear the ruins like if it was a trip to the supermarket, and to collect resources doing a very solid Maxwell cosplay.

- Want to play a powerful monster-like creature? Play Wortox. I don’t even have to explain why, if anyone has ever played Wortox should know, and if they haven’t, I strongly suggest they do.

So.. what’s Webber’s thing exactly? Why should I pick him, other than because I just like the character? Even Wilson and Wes have a purpose: Wilson being the character you learn the game as, up until you learn how to find the base without asking, and Wes being the character you use to torture yourself just to brag that the game is too easy for you.

I think Webber should be next, honestly I see no reason why any other character would be before him/them at this point.

Now the thing is what will they aim with his character: Is he going to be a blend of an army manager and a superhuman monster? Is he going to craft new tools and structures with spider stuff for everyone to use? Is he going to introduce new mechanics to the game, like poison? Is he going to be a pet simulator character, where they reward you for raising and taking care of your selected spider pets? I think that’s probably the ideas we should brainstorm a bit more upon.
 

TL;DR: let’s focus a bit more on how to make him really unique , fun to stay as, and important on a team, without just tossing new useless perks like riding spider queens.

Riding spider queens useless? Infinite spiders spawning out of her butt is useless to you? Maybe she would be SLOW but- The people who want to tame and ride them want to tame and ride them because it’s basically a mount that spawns more spider friends for Webber to Use.

I can clearly see WHY people want that as an ability and I don’t ever see it being useless, Slow?? Yes.. OP? You bet... but Useless? Not a chance.

[ForbiddenHat]

I just hope webber has a stealth gameplay such as leaping for example, like a spider warrior, just so it can use at least some spider material. 

[AlternateMew]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I can clearly see WHY people want that as an ability and I don’t ever see it being useless, Slow?? Yes.. OP? You bet... but Useless? Not a chance.

Have you seen just how powerful and individual spider is? She doesn't spawn them THAT fast.

There are plenty of Webber ideas that I'm iffy or neutral on, but this is high on being both nonsensical and pretty useless. Literally a Beefalo and a single 3 tier nest will get more spiders faster. Step on webbing with Beef, feed spiders, done. You have outpaced the Queen.

If my icon doesn't say it, I play almost exclusively Webber, so I'm very familiar with best boi.

[SinancoTheBest]

12 hours ago, AlternateMew said:

Have you seen just how powerful and individual spider is? She doesn't spawn them THAT fast.

There are plenty of Webber ideas that I'm iffy or neutral on, but this is high on being both nonsensical and pretty useless. Literally a Beefalo and a single 3 tier nest will get more spiders faster. Step on webbing with Beef, feed spiders, done. You have outpaced the Queen.

If my icon doesn't say it, I play almost exclusively Webber, so I'm very familiar with best boi.

Would you object the notion that it's one of the more flashy proposals though? Realistically a well-received Webber rework would have the spider boi have more interactions with and abilities revolving around all the different spiders around the constant and I believe spider queen to be no different. I believe in the developers' potential to design a strong and useful mechanic around Riding Spider Queens, as well as the potential of the idea itself to be flashy enough to get Webber the publicity he deserves and attract awe and attention of people all around.

I don't think it's a secret that humans, gamers and klei developers like large, flashy, new and attractive stuff, it'd be right up their alley.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

how worth is making spiderqueen raideable just for fun? with that time and resources they can include better perks than riding a spiderqueen which will be a pain to think about how she will work to dont disturb other players, her mechanics and what to do with how slow she is and not being so used for all the player base. I like the idea of weeber taming spiderqueens but in paper, in the game it could be another not worth thing that nobody will care about

as extra perk, if it doesnt take that much time to add, could be fine but i doubt since how buggy beefalos already are

[Notecja]

If people get possibility to ride queen, they will do it once or twice for "funsies", and later leave this just as it is now - never care about her anymore (because why they would, if only particular reason for that is "for fun"?). In some way I find this idea good for a memes, but not very good for playing, at least not in long term. I hope Klei will have some good ideas to make Webber good in long worlds (because this is what we need), late game and add more ambience to spiders in general.

[Well-met]

17 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Riding spider queens useless? Infinite spiders spawning out of her butt is useless to you? Maybe she would be SLOW but- The people who want to tame and ride them want to tame and ride them because it’s basically a mount that spawns more spider friends for Webber to Use.

I can clearly see WHY people want that as an ability and I don’t ever see it being useless, Slow?? Yes.. OP? You bet... but Useless? Not a chance.

of course it would be useless.

even a groggy player in the sandstorm moves faster than a spider queen.

in the event of a stationary boss, then yes it would be obscenely strong, but it would depend on the effort involved to tame a queen.

also, queens despawn on a timer. Wouldn't really make sense for a saddled queen to magically bypass that.

[Notecja]

7 minutes ago, Well-met said:

of course it would be useless.

even a groggy player in the sandstorm moves faster than a spider queen.

in the event of a stationary boss, then yes it would be obscenely strong, but it would depend on the effort involved to tame a queen.

also, queens despawn on a timer. Wouldn't really make sense for a saddled queen to magically bypass that.

Don't forget she eats sanity like a boss. : D

[AlternateMew]

3 hours ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Would you object the notion that it's one of the more flashy proposals though?
[-snip-]

I believe in the developers' potential to design a strong and useful mechanic around Riding Spider Queens, as well as the potential of the idea itself to be flashy enough to get Webber the publicity he deserves and attract awe and attention of people all around.

Ehhhh flashy doesn't translate to good.

 

3 hours ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Realistically a well-received Webber rework would have the spider boi have more interactions with and abilities revolving around all the different spiders around the constant and I believe spider queen to be no different.

This I completely agree with. Unique interactions with all the different spiders would be GREAT.

3 hours ago, SinancoTheBest said:

I don't think it's a secret that humans, gamers and klei developers like large, flashy, new and attractive stuff, it'd be right up their alley.

I really don't think piggyback on mommy long legs is anything but a human desire to ride any being they see that is larger than them. Think of literally every mob larger than the survivors and ask yourself the same thing. "Would it be flashy and cool to make this mob rideable? When yes, is it a good idea to make this mob rideable?"

 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

of course it would be useless.

even a groggy player in the sandstorm moves faster than a spider queen.

in the event of a stationary boss, then yes it would be obscenely strong, but it would depend on the effort involved to tame a queen.

also, queens despawn on a timer. Wouldn't really make sense for a saddled queen to magically bypass that.

Your assuming that a tamed Spider Queen would still function and behave identical to how it does currently, and knowing Klei... That’s NOT what we would get if we got them as Tameable.

Your Thought: Their Slow, Their Boring, Their Useless.

My Thought: Klei can completely overhaul them if they want.. to basically be “Mobile Spider Spawners for Webber” and No I don’t just mean the ones she’s ALREADY Coded to Spawn- She’s a Spider QUEEN and Therefore it would make perfectly logical sense for Webber to be able to spawn any form of recruitable Spider from a Spider Queen, this Includes Cave Spiders that players who don’t have Cave Content available for whatever reason would still have access to. Klei has an opportunity to allow players without the ability to host cave shards, ways to recruit cave content minions on the surface.

In addition to Spider spawning, Perhaps a tamed Spider Queen moves faster than a Non-Tamed one? Or has other unique abilities such as leaving a trail of Web behind it as floor tiles for a limited time that slows down other mobs that step across it.

No one wants another Wigfrid level rework where the Refresh is mostly unnoticeable & the character plays largely the same as it always has.

[Friendly Grass]

28 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

No one wants another Wigfrid level rework where the Refresh is mostly unnoticeable & the character plays largely the same as it always has.

You’ve been bringing up your dislike of Wigfrids refresh a lot so I thought I’d comment here with my perspective.

Wigfrid already had a solid unique downside, support items, and combat perks/style. I would not have been happy if Wigfrid’s play style was significantly changed. Her rework gave her a new mechanic that, although is not necessarily game changing, adds depth to her character and team-capability. In addition, it’s fun to have a whole new element in boss fights.

I’m personally not upset about her battle spear and helmet lacking unique perks. I think it’s good to keep those simple because the songs are there to raise her skill ceiling. We all love the Wigfrid that gives everyone battle helms. The battle spears are great in comparison to other easily accessible weapons, and break the 50 damage threshold in Wigfrid’s hands.

I admit there’s something I would have very much liked: for her to have perks aligned with fighting on a beefalo. I really enjoy that concept thematically, but it doesn’t work out at all with her in-game. It’s okay though, I can tame a rider beefalo.

Nevertheless, I totally agree that Webber should not be treated like Wigfrid. He needs an overhaul. There’s a ton of cool directions Klei could go with him, and I’m not worried. 

Conclusion: Wigfrid’s battle songs add depth to her character in-game and thematically, raise her skill ceiling, and give her unique support items that keep her around and help out a team. She never needed much.

[Grim the]

4 hours ago, Notecja said:

Don't forget she eats sanity like a boss. : D

Literally.
It still confuses me that a miniboss has the same sanity aura as Deerclops.
Because they're ugly?

[GelatinousCube]

4 hours ago, Friendly Grass said:

You’ve been bringing up your dislike of Wigfrids refresh a lot so I thought I’d comment here with my perspective.

Wigfrid already had a solid unique downside, support items, and combat perks/style. I would not have been happy if Wigfrid’s play style was significantly changed. Her rework gave her a new mechanic that, although is not necessarily game changing, adds depth to her character and team-capability. In addition, it’s fun to have a whole new element in boss fights.

I’m personally not upset about her battle spear and helmet lacking unique perks. I think it’s good to keep those simple because the songs are there to raise her skill ceiling. We all love the Wigfrid that gives everyone battle helms. The battle spears are great in comparison to other easily accessible weapons, and break the 50 damage threshold in Wigfrid’s hands.

I admit there’s something I would have very much liked: for her to have perks aligned with fighting on a beefalo. I really enjoy that concept thematically, but it doesn’t work out at all with her in-game. It’s okay though, I can tame a rider beefalo.

Nevertheless, I totally agree that Webber should not be treated like Wigfrid. He needs an overhaul. There’s a ton of cool directions Klei could go with him, and I’m not worried. 

Conclusion: Wigfrid’s battle songs add depth to her character in-game and thematically, raise her skill ceiling, and give her unique support items that keep her around and help out a team. She never needed much.

Strongly disagree. I'm a Wig main and there is very little point in crafting any of the songs at all especially late game as strong gear is already great on her with her damage reduction, health and sanity drain and damage buff. Weaponised Warble and the Health one are the only two I bother using on occasion and even then their effect is not really necessary. The entire mechanic only works on bosses as well which many argue is only a small fraction of the game (I personally fight bosses a ton but many others do not even as Wig). Her rework was a bit of a cop out and added very little to her character - the skins and lore we received were miles better than the actual gameplay changes. 

Also when comparing it to every other rework it is easily the least well received (except the whole Wicker book fiasco but that wasn't exactly a rework and she is almost guaranteed to receive new books with her actual rework making her even better), added the least to its respective character and changed more or less nothing about the way she plays. Wendy arguably didn't need such a crazy rework and massive buff but she did and is an absolute beast. Also the whole "no nerfs, only buffs" mindset moving forward with reworks Wolfgang and Wicker both could very well end up with similar treatments to Wendy and end up being even stronger than they already are (which most consider better than Wigfrid).

Wolfgang and Wicker (and possibly others) are already great as is as well, do they not deserve meaningful reworks either? I guess we will have to wait and actually see but I feel like the next few reworks we receive are all going to be great and are going to add plenty to the respective characters kit and playstyle - especially Webber. If so maybe more will agree that Wigs was really inconsequential and boring.

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

No one wants another Wigfrid level rework where the Refresh is mostly unnoticeable & the character plays largely the same as it always has.

Couldn't agree more. I hope every future rework adds plenty to their respective characters.

[Friendly Grass]

5 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Wolfgang and Wicker (and possibly others) are already great as is as well, do they not deserve meaningful reworks either?

You think they’re great? Sure, they’re powerful but their mechanics and design and downsides are so... weird. Also, in a team (remember playing better in multiplayer is literally the whole point of the refreshes), Wolfgang is mostly outclassed by Wigfrid. She makes boss fights completely free, and even a net gain in health.

I know Klei is gonna do more for Wicker than just “more books”. Even Wigfrid’s “unnoticeable” rework got a whole new mechanic, crafting tab, and status gauge.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Your assuming that a tamed Spider Queen would still function and behave identical to how it does currently, and knowing Klei... That’s NOT what we would get if we got them as Tameable.

Your Thought: Their Slow, Their Boring, Their Useless.

My Thought: Klei can completely overhaul them if they want.. to basically be “Mobile Spider Spawners for Webber” and No I don’t just mean the ones she’s ALREADY Coded to Spawn- She’s a Spider QUEEN and Therefore it would make perfectly logical sense for Webber to be able to spawn any form of recruitable Spider from a Spider Queen, this Includes Cave Spiders that players who don’t have Cave Content available for whatever reason would still have access to. Klei has an opportunity to allow players without the ability to host cave shards, ways to recruit cave content minions on the surface.

In addition to Spider spawning, Perhaps a tamed Spider Queen moves faster than a Non-Tamed one? Or has other unique abilities such as leaving a trail of Web behind it as floor tiles for a limited time that slows down other mobs that step across it.

No one wants another Wigfrid level rework where the Refresh is mostly unnoticeable & the character plays largely the same as it always has.

Too much work to make spider queens viable making non sense in the in game logic instead of making cool things with weeber itself

Maybe you dont like wigfrid rework but others enjoy her new perks because she doesnt need anything (is nearly op) but the songs are a good adition to have sinergies in a team or having extra perks playing alone. Klei couldnt chose a better way to rework her, this isnt an arpg

[GelatinousCube]

On 3/8/2021 at 11:29 PM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Maybe you dont like wigfrid rework but others enjoy her new perks because she doesnt need anything (is nearly op) but the songs are a good adition to have sinergies in a team or having extra perks playing alone. Klei couldnt chose a better way to rework her, this isnt an arpg

Pretty sure the vast majority of people who like her rework don't actually play as her. Its just people who play as others who apparently don't want her to be "too good" or too strong.

"is nearly OP" - so by this logic Wolf and Wicker are 100% OP and shouldn't receive any buffs during their rework either and should if anything receive new downsides.

They most definitely could have chosen a better way to rework her considering most ether don't like the rework or don't really care about it one way or the other.... they definitely could have done something else that would have been better received.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Pretty sure the vast majority of people who like her rework don't actually play as her. Its just people who play as others who apparently don't want her to be "too good" or too strong.

"is nearly OP" - so by this logic Wolf and Wicker are 100% OP and shouldn't receive any buffs during their rework either and should if anything receive new downsides.

They most definitely could have chosen a better way to rework her considering most ether don't like the rework or don't really care about it one way or the other.... they definitely could have done something else that would have been better received.

This isnt the topic but whatever.

Is one of my favourite characters. I play her with my friends because they are noobs so i dont need to focus on surviving and more in helping them+cheap helmets

Klei did a good refresh concept since, if you read the wigfrid topics prerework, most of the users said that she was perfect and didnt need any change, thing that, with the covid problematic, might made klei decide to priorice her refresh for not needing much so they could focus on put their effort on other updates.

Slight op means that she has hp and sanity leech, more damage output and resistance and cheap weapon and armor. You can literally survive by killing spiders and eating their meat cooked, nothing else. She was the character who made me survive more than 100 days for the 1st time when RoG was released without much effort when, with others, for being noob, i had a lot of problems and always died.

She was buffed with the refresh since she only received tools and no downsides. The songs, except for the fire resistance(wtf klei) make her more fun and useful since she and other players receive stats for free and also have crowd controll so i dont see how it was a bad refresh

 The only thing i can see is people being too hyped for expecting too much for her rework but her refresh imo was more than ok.

I expect something similar with weeber since he hasnt got any of the problems that 1st dst woodie (eating wood was meh) or willow. He only needs to be more fun not just a monster wilson which works since he isnt unviable or something, he is actually very good but a little flat. Was a cool concept in DS when klei didnt have that much resources but now they can make the game and characters deeper and funnier

[Friendly Grass]

YES. We were all worried that klei would give her too big changes. Until now I thought the rework was very well received by Wigfrid players (including myself).

[GelatinousCube]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

This isnt the topic but whatever.

Is one of my favourite characters. I play her with my friends because they are noobs so i dont need to focus on surviving and more in helping them+cheap helmets

Klei did a good refresh concept since, if you read the wigfrid topics prerework, most of the users said that she was perfect and didnt need any change, thing that, with the covid problematic, might made klei decide to priorice her refresh for not needing much so they could focus on put their effort on other updates.

Slight op means that she has hp and sanity leech, more damage output and resistance and cheap weapon and armor. You can literally survive by killing spiders and eating their meat cooked, nothing else. She was the character who made me survive more than 100 days for the 1st time when RoG was released without much effort when, with others, for being noob, i had a lot of problems and always died.

She was buffed with the refresh since she only received tools and no downsides. The songs, except for the fire resistance(wtf klei) make her more fun and useful since she and other players receive stats for free and also have crowd controll so i dont see how it was a bad refresh

 The only thing i can see is people being too hyped for expecting too much for her rework but her refresh imo was more than ok.

I expect something similar with weeber since he hasnt got any of the problems that 1st dst woodie (eating wood was meh) or willow. He only needs to be more fun not just a monster wilson which works since he isnt unviable or something, he is actually very good but a little flat. Was a cool concept in DS when klei didnt have that much resources but now they can make the game and characters deeper and funnier

I certainly wasn't someone who thought she needed no changes, I just cannot understand that mindset - why even do a rework at all if changes aren't required? Just don't bother. The songs aren't fun or effective enough to be worthwhile.

Wait you actually expect a similar rework for Webber? That would be crazy and I would feel really sorry for Webber mains if that happened - he is easily one of the weakest/worst characters.

Btw Webber can also survive by just killing and eating monster meat but that doesn't change the fact that most people consider him to be pretty lackluster as he is now. I don't think your example of surviving off monster meat and spiders alone really holds up to be honest as you can do similar things with other characters - in fact anyone who doesn't have a meat only diet like Wig can just set up a handful of Bee Boxes (really not that hard to do just takes a little bit of time) and live off these FOREVER. You can survive eating the Honey and nothing else - you don't need to gather food anymore and you can just heal with the honey as well. If you know what you are doing you can achieve similar things with every character in multiple ways. You could live off Stone Fruit alone (yeah Lunar can take time to find - building ship etc) if you want. Also Wigfrid surviving off MM and killing spiders alone does require combat and gold (or some way to keep making armor/weapons) so isn't exactly just completely safe.
I would definitely agree that she is noob friendly and one of the best characters for newer players - until you get better at the game - after this point you can be a beast with any character.

Also to clarify it isn't simply that the songs are pretty terrible - its that they are boring, uninteresting and add very little to her character. I (and I assume many) didn't necessarily want her rework to make her even more powerful I just wanted it to be a lot more interesting and unique and provide something that makes Wigfrid more fun to play. The songs don't achieve any of that - they are boring, only work on bosses and are extremely mediocre. She didn't get any unique structure (which most characters have now and generally reworks have provided these), she didn't get some new perk that helps you in some area outside of combat (even if it was really weak but fun and unique this would have been great - something to do with sailing (viking boats) - something to do with Followers or even Beefalo and she didn't get anything that actually makes her more fun or interesting to play.

I honestly would have been more happy with a rework that didn't actually add much to her kit whatsoever (even less so than the songs) but included some cool trophy or weapon rack that ties in with bosses or can hold your armor/weapons and display them or pretty much anything other than the inspiration and songs mechanic. At the very least the songs desperately need a second rework as half of them are utterly useless - also two sanity songs? really? We even have images for two other songs that don't exist so there were clearly other ideas/concepts that went unused. It seems clear that they won't do a second rework though with how much time has passed even though EVERYONE has pretty much universally recognised that Fireproof Falsetto is 100% garbage and not worthwhile in ANY situation. I actually feel the same about a couple of the other songs but others have found borderline niche uses (which I still don't think are worthwhile, can be achieved in other ways or are situations you can resolve or approach in a much better and more efficient way to begin with).

Every other rework has at the very least been exciting (New Woodie transformations, Abigail becoming a BEAST, potions, Sisturn etc) and made their respective character more fun and unique to play, I personally (and from what I can gather from forum posts - many other Wigfrid mains) just do not think Wigfrids rework achieves this whatsoever. I barely touch or bother with songs/inspiration whereas I'm pretty sure that Wendy players make use of potions/sisturns pretty frequently and Woodie players use the different transformations fairly often.

Helping Pipspooks (and an entire new mob being created just for Wendys rework) and doing their little mission is such a neat addition and enriches worlds as well (cute little ghosties flying around that appear for every character) and Woodies transformations all look amazing and have great uses. What does Wig get? Some cool new unique structure? Some new Mob that she benefits from interacting with? New Weapons, armor or abilities? Some new minor perk that has to do with followers, steeds, boating, exploration, anything whatsoever? No - she got boring songs that give tiny buffs that are only really worthwhile in the very early game (good for your first time against bosses when you will have a lot less and weaker versions of armor, healing etc than in late game when you are rich and they are useless) but ultimately can be completely ignored and you won't miss out on much at all. Very little new art or animation or anything in that regard either (the inspiration meter looks great) compared to other reworks which provide huge amounts of new art/animation - Transformations, structures, new mobs.

WORMWOODS PSEDUO REWORK WHICH WASN'T EVEN A REWORK WAS BETTER THAN WIGFRIDS!!!! Huge farming perks (I literally swap to Wormwood just to do big amounts of Farming), a speed boost you can keep going the whole year if you want and a massive change to Bees following you in bloom no longer attacking you? Oh sorry forgot all about the new healing values for different fertilizers! Probably something else I've forgotten.

I just can't accept people defending her rework - its hands down the worst we have received and possibly may remain that way as I do not think Webber (or even others to be honest) will get the same treatment - he will get a big overhaul or some massive addition that makes him a lot better.  Just because she was already strong doesn't mean she didn't deserve something as interesting or fun as every other rework thus far.

On 3/8/2021 at 11:04 PM, Friendly Grass said:

You think they’re great? Sure, they’re powerful but their mechanics and design and downsides are so... weird. Also, in a team (remember playing better in multiplayer is literally the whole point of the refreshes), Wolfgang is mostly outclassed by Wigfrid. She makes boss fights completely free, and even a net gain in health.

I know Klei is gonna do more for Wicker than just “more books”. Even Wigfrid’s “unnoticeable” rework got a whole new mechanic, crafting tab, and status gauge.

Wig is not outclassed by Wolf on a team... with the right buffs you don't even need to bring your team just have Wolfgang brute force them to death quickly. He needs less armor, less weapons and less resources overall because the fight is going to be over so much faster.

Yes she boosts others where Wolf does not but Wolf will get the boss killed MUCH faster requiring much less need for any buffs to teammates - him making the boss die so much faster is his buff to teammates if you will.

The net gain health thing I cannot fault and you are completely right - if done right Wig can gain health from boss battles however with enough people and firepower you can sort of do the same with Jellybeans considering most bosses can only target one person at a time and strong armor can absorb most damage. Also healing is just crazy easy anyway if you know what you are doing with food - especially now that stuff like cooked potatoes (which heal a crazy amount of health for a single cooked ingredient) can be made in HUGE batches easily. Also side note:  who is the single character who can't just heal just as effectively as pierogis by eating raw/cooked veggies? Wigfrid!!!!
Also Wig could already do this with strong armor and her innate life leech - this just allows you to let others do the same as well.

Wolfgangs downsides are pretty much nonexistent - everyone agrees the whole "wimp" thing doesn't even really factor in or have any real effect. He doesn't really have legit downsides. Also what is Wickers downside? Spoiled food and sleeping? Other than issues with receiving gifts from Winters Feast - no sleeping is also really not a real downside and the food thing isn't that bad either and is far more of an early game issue - once your base is halfway set up you should never be dependent on eating food that is spoiled.

Whole new mechanic? Yeah barely, the mechanic is extremely lacklustre at that. Yeah the crafting tab is purely for the songs and the status gauge also ties in - the way you have worded it makes it sound like she received a bunch of new things - the mechanic, crafting tab and gauge are all connected and part of the same thing. Also I wasn't clear sorry, I don't necessarily expect Wicker to only receive new books but considering how unique and varied the effects her existing books have 2 or 3 new ones with highly unique and rewarding effects would honestly be more than enough of a rework for her in my eyes. Her books being SO unique, powerful and providing such weird and wonderful effects is what makes them so great.

1 hour ago, Friendly Grass said:

YES. We were all worried that klei would give her too big changes. Until now I thought the rework was very well received by Wigfrid players (including myself).

I feel the opposite, seems to me that most Wig players/mains do not like the rework.

Klei went overboard in listening to everyone say she didn't need anything and so didn't give her anything worthwhile as a result. I blame all the people that just kept repeating she was already good enough and didn't need anything new whatsoever for her rework. The more I see people saying that Wigfrids refresh is totally fine the the more I hope I am now starting to hope that the same happens for Wicker and Wolf at this point considering they are constantly considered the strongest two characters in the game.

Also Fireproof Falsetto and the other mediocre/useless songs are never going to receive buffs or changes when Klei keep seeing people say her rework was fine... and Falsetto at the least is universally accepted as terrible. Why at the very least can we not receive a change to this song??

I was super psyched for Wig's rework, within a few days of playing with it I was hugely dissapointed and continue to be dissapointed that Fireproof Falsetto at the very least hasn't been fixed.

[DARTH]

On 2/26/2021 at 3:50 PM, JustCrimson said:

everytime you talk i feel like you are having an entire ass conversation with yourself

plus you are literally saying "make it so webber cant have a bird cage or prestihatinator (and furthermore shadow manipulator, locking him out of items like LIFE GIVING AMULETS) because you think that would make him "less identical from other characters", just please think about what you are saying before you actually say it- that would be horrible

his friends eat their family RAW too

Easy to be picky but difficult to be creative.

On 3/7/2021 at 12:44 AM, Mike23Ua said:

Riding spider queens useless? Infinite spiders spawning out of her butt is useless to you? Maybe she would be SLOW but- The people who want to tame and ride them want to tame and ride them because it’s basically a mount that spawns more spider friends for Webber to Use.

I can clearly see WHY people want that as an ability and I don’t ever see it being useless, Slow?? Yes.. OP? You bet... but Useless? Not a chance.

what about mating with spider queen 

[Friendly Grass]

This is my fault for sparking a Wigfrid vs Wolfgang, sorry. 

[Cheggf]

Webber is Wendy except trading most of her upsides for some downsides. Wendy and Wes fusion dance.

[Warpspeed10]

Let Webber leap at things like a spider warrior. He can catch rabbits, gobblers, koalaphants, and so on.

[W0l0l0]

On 3/8/2021 at 3:41 AM, Grim the said:

Because they're ugly?

Anyone else think that the spider queen is one of the coolest looking bosses in the game? It'd be great to weaponise them, but simply riding them seems like a copy pate beefalo with gimmics. Maybe if a commanded queen death would cause the spiders nearby to become aggressive to Webber? As a punishment? Probably too annoying. It's difficult for me to think of ways to make spider queens rarer, more impactful, and less disposable without making them overpowered without changing too much. Send me more ideas! 

[Mysterious box]

On 3/7/2021 at 7:57 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Your assuming that a tamed Spider Queen would still function and behave identical to how it does currently, and knowing Klei... That’s NOT what we would get if we got them as Tameable.

Your Thought: Their Slow, Their Boring, Their Useless.

My Thought: Klei can completely overhaul them if they want.. to basically be “Mobile Spider Spawners for Webber” and No I don’t just mean the ones she’s ALREADY Coded to Spawn- She’s a Spider QUEEN and Therefore it would make perfectly logical sense for Webber to be able to spawn any form of recruitable Spider from a Spider Queen, this Includes Cave Spiders that players who don’t have Cave Content available for whatever reason would still have access to. Klei has an opportunity to allow players without the ability to host cave shards, ways to recruit cave content minions on the surface.

In addition to Spider spawning, Perhaps a tamed Spider Queen moves faster than a Non-Tamed one? Or has other unique abilities such as leaving a trail of Web behind it as floor tiles for a limited time that slows down other mobs that step across it.

No one wants another Wigfrid level rework where the Refresh is mostly unnoticeable & the character plays largely the same as it always has.

My issue with the with the whole rideable spider queen thing is that she doesn't really offer anything webber can't already do aside from spawning spiders and changing her to be a subservient mob doesn't make sense she's a ruler and webber is a normal spider it'd be like wurt riding the merm king into battle it feels like the thing people are focusing on is trying to make characters who aren't as flashy more flashy with these refreshes which I don't particularly mind but I feel like we should focus more on function than cool points.

Edit: I forgot to mention it doesn't make sense for the queen to spawn other spider types because those are mutated and evolved spiders who adapted to their surroundings she herself would have to be mutated or evolved that being said it would be interesting if webber got a adaptation system of his own.