Wishlist for anti-griefing measures

[blizstorm]

Propose and discuss new anti-griefing measures you would like.

Announce when a player is hammering an ice flingomatic with foreign owner

Regenerate grass tuft around portal in survival world. Limited grass tuft around the portal may have been relocated or burnt. Newcomers are very unlikely to survive without grass.

Increase the temporary ban for kicked players from 10 mins to 1 hour. A rollback can set back progress by up to 8 min. The hammer griefer will effectively be stalling the entire world by continuously returning every 10 minutes

Drop items for kicked players

Provide the interface to vote on rollback by 2 days. Provide the rollback date in the interface

Add reeds to the regrowth mechanism

Add stalagmite to the regrowth mechanism to renew fossil, perhaps with a renew period of 500 days

Add beefalo to possible animal hunt if the hunt is in the big savannah

Remove regenerate world vote option from survival world. While there are some legitimate reason to instantly regenerate world, a regenerate vote passed by simple majority seems unfair to the players who want to remain.

Tighten the ability start vote from oldest or at least 20 days, to oldest or at least 10% of the world run time

 

My opinion on having a safe zone around portal is that it would immediately provide help since some of the griefing meta is to tentacle the portal, or to place spiders. However, the meta will change, perhaps in 6 months or even 2 years. By then, this safe zone will no longer serve its purpose and it will have to be revised.

[Cheggf]

46 minutes ago, blizstorm said:

Increase the temporary ban for kicked players from 10 mins to 1 hour

This is what I want. The current ban is basically nonexistent, it's all too easy for someone to keep joining back over and over again and even if you keep succeeding in kicking them it's rather annoying how frequently you need to do it. And with how long it takes for the votekick to actually pass if they're anywhere near something griefable they have more than enough time to grief it before they get kicked.

Plus, if it becomes a harsh season people are prone to disconnect and as such the griefer can easily reconnect when there's too few players to kick them. If it were increased to an hour that would at least make it less likely for that to happen.

If anything else were to be added I would want it to be against the people who were voted off the server. Perhaps someone rejoining after a votekick can't set fires, hammer, or open chests for a minute or two after they join to prevent the first issue, and someone rejoining after a votekick can have kicks called against them regardless of playercount to prevent the second? Neither of those would persist after world regenning, obviously.

[blizstorm]

Regarding too few people to kicked, I know of a griefer who specially target worlds with 2 or less people, because he would then be unable to be kicked. I have thought of wishing for the authority for the oldest player to unilaterally kick someone if there is 3 people or less. However, this can then be abused when a person trying to monopolise a world simply kick all newcomer, hence the unilateral power to kick would seem too dangerous.

  

17 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

If anything else were to be added I would want it to be against the people who were voted off the server. Perhaps someone rejoining after a votekick can't set fires, hammer, or open chests for a minute or two after they join to prevent the first issue, and someone rejoining after a votekick can have kicks called against them regardless of playercount to prevent the second? Neither of those would persist after world regenning, obviously.

I was just thinking about it too. A slightly more complicated implementation than the 1 hour ban is to freeze a returning kicked player for 30 seconds, while the server is deciding on what to do with the kicked player. The freeze will happen if the player was previously kicked, or left while being frozen. A server announcement is given for the returning kicked player.

 

 

 

[kuroite]

2 hours ago, blizstorm said:

a regenerate vote passed by simple majority seems unfair to the players who want to remain

I mean, its how vote and democracy work so ... and

2 hours ago, blizstorm said:

Drop items for kicked players

as it seem a good idea, i can see a way for people to "legally" steal your loot in the same "unfair" way.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, kuroite said:

I mean, its how vote and democracy work so ... and

and it doesnt seem to work very well xD

[FuriousChimera]

These suggestions are mainly server side so the overall performance of server would be affected.

Instead of portal clearing zone, changed the spawn location of newcomers - they can not spawn over objects or mobs and therefore will spawn outside of the dangerzone.

Changes in kick timer won't be effective - griefer will log out of server before the vote finish.

[MondayNight]

15 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

and it doesnt seem to work very well xD

Is by far the best system out of all that existed and are in existence. As always, everything starts from education and making informed decisions/choices - thus only needing tweaks. Here as well: simple majority could have further additions - the vote of older people on server could weight as 2x in relation to new players' (margin between "new" and "old" could be either a set days-interval or certain percentages).

 

15 hours ago, FuriousChimera said:

Changes in kick timer won't be effective - griefer will log out of server before the vote finish.

It doesn't matter, even in current state of vote-kick, the voting still goes on even after proposed griefer for kicking may have left: interdiction to re-log for 10 minutes still applies.

 

I as well support the extension of time-out for kicked players from 10 minutes to 30 minutes or 1h.

Likewise a protection area of 3-5 tiles-radius around Florid Postern against Tentacles Spawning and placement of Fossils. Perhaps also make Fossils "dislocatable" via punching (let's say 5 punches so that current 1x Hammer use still remains valid), hence no more Fossils pen to kill newly-spawned players.

And only these for now, that way world mechanics and play-styles aren't affected by anti-griefing measures.

[. . .]

I would like it all to be an optional setting which can be toggled on/off.

I like my madness world and I don't want any anti-griefing mechanics forced on it, when people come to grief me I see it as a mini-boss battle or special event where I must defend my base with the power of PvP.

[JoeW]

Now is a good time to be having this conversation. Thank you. 

We have talked about a lot of this stuff at length so I wouldn't go to grand in scope. But thinking about server settings or some limitations we can impose on our servers to keep things from getting to out of control would be interesting to know your thoughts. 

 

[pyroisshy]

There needs to be some sort of log of what actions players have done.

If nobody saw who burned down the base or planted a spider den in it, then using voting doesn't stop the griefer 

[Obviousclone]

I've run into griefer traps where they put tentacles at cave staircases so perhaps these protection rules could extend to those areas too.

40 minutes ago, pyroisshy said:

There needs to be some sort of log of what actions players have done.

If nobody saw who burned down the base or planted a spider den in it, then using voting doesn't stop the griefer 

I know there's character examination quotes for pyromaniacs (and player killers), but perhaps adding an examination quote for burnt objects that reveals the arsonists name might help if griefers are aware of it

[CarlZalph]

Perhaps a thing that makes it so that if a mob targets a new spawned player within a tolerance to have it telepoof to somewhere else in the world.  To deter tentacle/hounds/etc traps at the portal.

[Viktor234]

One issue I would like to talk about is the current situation of Pigs, it's questionable whether smashing Pig Houses counts as griefing or not.

Almost every DST guide out there suggest players to smash Pig Houses for basic ressources, even players say it's fine to smash Pig Houses since they are renewable and nobody is anyway going to farm pigs in an infested forest. But if players keep Pig Houses, then there won't be any pigs left in the world until 1st winter.

Once all Pig Houses got smashed, the only ways of obtaining Pig Skin are via Deconstruction Staff or Star Caller's Staff:
- Deconstruction Staff: Find a Football Helmet in the Labyrinth or in the Atrium and deconstruct it to obtain 1x Pig Skin
- Star Caller's Staff: Use it on the Moonstone during Full Moon and kill Werepigs for Pig Skin
But both ways require you to visit the ruins, and if there are no more Pseudoscience Stations left in the ruins (another issue which should be investigated) then you'll need to kill Fuelweaver to retrieve the main ingredient for the most basic headslot armor.

I would like to see some changes which either introduce some alternative ways of obtaining Pig Skin or reduce the amount of players who try to erase Pigs from the constant, for example:

• Make Pig Houses located near Pig King or the Pig Village (if available) indestructable or rebuildable without Pig Skin, to give everyone a chance to farm Pig Skin and to bring more life to Pig King and the Pig Village
• Add some alternate reliable ways of farming Pig Skin, e.g. introduce Vampire Bats from DS:Hamlet to the guano biome in the caves which will also make the biome more useful, or introduce some kind of Porkfish in the ocean dropping Pig Skin
• Change the recipe of Pig Houses from 4x Pig Skin to e.g. 10x Gold Nugget, to discourage players to smash pigs for Pig Skin and to allow players to renew Pig Houses more easily
• Make natural Pig Houses not drop any loot at all, discouraging players to smash pigs for loot

[Mike23Ua]

I only have one thing to contribute here: make it so that obscure pre-crafted structures (such as ancient Science station) can not be destroyed outside of PvP mode.

[Crestwave]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I only have one thing to contribute here: make it so that obscure pre-crafted structures (such as ancient Science station) can not be destroyed outside of PvP mode.

I do love hammering them for stuff, though! I'm not like vehemently against this or anything, but it's very fun destroying them, like a better version of the labyrinth chests.

One simple and easy compromise would be to make only the natural full station indestructible. Or make it leave a repairable stump, but that could be a bit of a hassle as well.

[blizstorm]

7 hours ago, Viktor234 said:

• Make Pig Houses located near Pig King or the Pig Village (if available) indestructable

The pig house can sometime be in the way of base placement, which hammering them is a good option to keep. Not only in terms of location, but that it might be a common area area for wurt, webber and wortox to visit, and indestructable pig houses make it troublesome for these characters to ever visit pig king or base  there.

Other possible ideas for renewability of pig skin could be regeneration of pig head or indestructable pig torch.

On hammering ancient station, I had encountered a griefer who destroy all thulecite medallions, destroy all ancient stations, and then hid the key in a chest under a spider den.

On 1/23/2021 at 10:06 PM, CarlZalph said:

Perhaps a thing that makes it so that if a mob targets a new spawned player within a tolerance to have it telepoof to somewhere else in the world.  To deter tentacle/hounds/etc traps at the portal.

To teleport the mobs seems fun, but this will likely create a lot of other unintended effect. A tentacle pit typically has 30-90 tentacle. If these tentacles are all sent randomly to the map, Each biome can have around 5 tentacle, hiding behind a tree or near grass or other resources. The random teleport can also be sending fire hounds to oasis base that typically does not protect itself with flingomatics

 

On 1/23/2021 at 2:52 PM, pyroisshy said:

There needs to be some sort of log of what actions players have done.

If nobody saw who burned down the base or planted a spider den in it, then using voting doesn't stop the griefer 

Having a log like wolly logger would be good, but then an interface will need to be created for it. The log would also be very verbose, reporting all sorts of actions like taking stuff, dropping stuff. This can make the log difficult to verify under 1 min. Which, I think obviousclone's idea is a good idea for your wish.

Even in democratic government, some of the more important decisions may require 2/3 vote, 90% or unanimous decision, so simple majority may not be good enough for important decision such as regenerating world. The basis for democracy is an informed public, which as much as education goes, there remains severe asymmetry of knowledge in dont starve together. I have thought about having vote is the weightage of log(age), but that system may be too complicated to understand. Hence, I would recommend instead more towards the ability to start vote.

[RoughCactus69]

I'm with this post. Mostly because there is a glitch where you can't kick people on PS4. Kinda sucks.....

On 1/22/2021 at 3:13 PM, Cheggf said:

This is what I want. The current ban is basically nonexistent, it's all too easy for someone to keep joining back over and over again and even if you keep succeeding in kicking them it's rather annoying how frequently you need to do it. And with how long it takes for the votekick to actually pass if they're anywhere near something griefable they have more than enough time to grief it before they get kicked.

Plus, if it becomes a harsh season people are prone to disconnect and as such the griefer can easily reconnect when there's too few players to kick them. If it were increased to an hour that would at least make it less likely for that to happen.

If anything else were to be added I would want it to be against the people who were voted off the server. Perhaps someone rejoining after a votekick can't set fires, hammer, or open chests for a minute or two after they join to prevent the first issue, and someone rejoining after a votekick can have kicks called against them regardless of playercount to prevent the second? Neither of those would persist after world regenning, obviously.

You guys still have vote to kick? PS4 removed that. It's based around what the host wants. They're the only one that can kick. As soon as they click that button, the player is gone. Plus I'm positive bans are permanent.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i would like to add catcoons dens and natural bee hives to the regrow mechanic. They dont respawn after destroyed and some recipes requieres catcoons loot. I know you can get combs from beequeen but with that you cant make natural beehives and they look so nice

this ofc with many days requiered to prevent abuses

[Intrepidpioneer]

I'm surprised I haven't seen any comments to the effect of "if you don't like griefers make your own world play with friends only"

I agree with everything said so far

 

[False]

Isn't there a server that backlogs all activities like who eats what, burned what, killed what and  manufactured what, in real time, to discord server? There is even dedicated system of couting trolling points for activities such as burning useful resources .etc.

How about that?

[CarlZalph]

56 minutes ago, False said:

Isn't there a server that backlogs all activities like who eats what, burned what, killed what and  manufactured what, in real time, to discord server? There is even dedicated system of couting trolling points for activities such as burning useful resources .etc.

How about that?

There is.  I made an IPC bot for murmur servers back in 2016 for when I administrated over a server that did the same, it's not hard to create one.

The big sticker is having to use a potential exploit to hide the fact that the server has a mod running on its end from clients.

Having a system like this for players to see actions as they happen with timestamps (day count, segments, etc) in like a developer-console menu would be neat.