Karitha Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 11 hours ago, VouMorrer said: why do you think charlie is moon side? As I know most shadow related things are about Maxwell and moon creatures hate shadow creatures. Also moon side came with Charlie. That make me think they are charlie's monsters but I'm probably wrong. 10 hours ago, VouMorrer said: revenge against maxwell Why she hate that much Maxwell? Why maxwell say "I'm so sorry, Charlie" in his quotes. What did this guy do? Yeah we know maxwell is a narcissist man which probably broke heart of charlie somehow, maybe friendzoned her lol? Maxwell break her heart and she will break his neck by the them. 10 hours ago, Scypham said: Charlie could sustain the gateway this time around in order to bring back Them for her own purposes This is terrific. If the thing you talking about is true, I don't think the things will listen what she says and kill her. Also how our survivors will fight with these gods? Shouldn't gods be much stronger than a shadows? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Slagger said: What did this guy do? Using a weird book to have powers so he become famouse and, later, both being trapped because of it Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Guy Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 "They" are unfathomable. Shadows are creatures from another dimension attracted to intelligent creatures, but They are even farther "distant" than shadows, and perhaps They come from yet another dimension. Are They hostile? We do not know. Did they deliberately destroy ancient civilization? We do not know. But they bring ruin wherever they go; perhaps the knowledge they give mortals is too catastrophic for our limited minds. Are They omnipotent? No. Are They omniscient? Maybe. Are They very ancient? Yes, They existed when in the Constant there was nothing but void and dust. Am They at war? We do not know. Are They intrigued by humans? Some, it would seem. We can talk to each other, in some way; Maxwell learned so much from Them... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Slagger said: Why she hate that much Maxwell? Why maxwell say "I'm so sorry, Charlie" in his quotes. What did this guy do? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VouMorrer Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, Pop Guy said: Are They hostile? We do not know. Did they deliberately destroy ancient civilization? We do not know. But they bring ruin wherever they go; perhaps the knowledge they give mortals is too catastrophic for our limited minds. look at this image the eye in the center is possibly the only representation of Them, and it is very clearly that Their shadow claws destroyed the ancients, both by the image and by quotes. now lets talk about this possibility you raised about Them NOT did this deliberately and Them are NOT hostile. to be fair, it is a possibility very hard to fit the rest of the story. did They not controlled Their own power? very hard to believe, considering Their stats as gods They didnt care? like for Them it was no difference to keep or destroy the ancients, they were merely a fly to be stepped on besides that, i can see no other possibilities for this, would you mind to clarify your idea to me? 3 hours ago, Slagger said: Why she hate that much Maxwell? Why maxwell say "I'm so sorry, Charlie" in his quotes. What did this guy do? it is not only what he did, but also what he didnt. Maxwell had all the power of the nightmare throne to create worlds, he could have used this power to save and protect charlie from her transformation, but he didnt. why? i believe Them did not allowed him, he was merely a puppet after all, but charlie dont think that way. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Guy Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, VouMorrer said: look at this image the eye in the center is possibly the only representation of Them, and it is very clearly that Their shadow claws destroyed the ancients, both by the image and by quotes. now lets talk about this possibility you raised about Them NOT did this deliberately and Them are NOT hostile. to be fair, it is a possibility very hard to fit the rest of the story. did They not controlled Their own power? very hard to believe, considering Their stats as gods They didnt care? like for Them it was no difference to keep or destroy the ancients, they were merely a fly to be stepped on besides that, i can see no other possibilities for this, would you mind to clarify your idea to me? Gladly. We assume that "they" are hostile; because? What need would they have had to destroy the ancients? Why are they "inherently evil?" it would be childish, I really hope that Klei does not lead to such a silly. Instead, let's try to reason in a more interesting: "They" possess boundless knowledge and, sometimes, decide to share it with beings of "flesh and blood" (humans, ancient anthropods, etc.). Only their knowledge is catastrophic. To give an example, it is as if an alien entity had taught us human beings to create the atomic bomb: would the day we have to annihilate ourselves in a thermonuclear conflict directly the fault of the alinea entity? Or would we have been the ones who didn't know how to use his knowledge? Maxwell says "They" are just watching, and maybe they got bored. As if they were curious, looking for something new to learn, not destroy. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VouMorrer Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Pop Guy said: Gladly. We assume that "they" are hostile; because? What need would they have had to destroy the ancients? Why are they "inherently evil?" it would be childish, I really hope that Klei does not lead to such a silly. Instead, let's try to reason in a more interesting: "They" possess boundless knowledge and, sometimes, decide to share it with beings of "flesh and blood" (humans, ancient anthropods, etc.). Only their knowledge is catastrophic. To give an example, it is as if an alien entity had taught us human beings to create the atomic bomb: would the day we have to annihilate ourselves in a thermonuclear conflict directly the fault of the alinea entity? Or would we have been the ones who didn't know how to use his knowledge? Maxwell says "They" are just watching, and maybe they got bored. As if they were curious, looking for something new to learn, not destroy thanks for yor explanation! i think i understand it better now we usually consider Them as hostile becouse of how hostile They are represented, but your theory that They only reached the ancient's mind is kind of very possible, considering the nature of the shadows of acting at insane minds. so, you mean ,at the mural, the claws represent Their influence reaching ancient's minds and the transformed ancients destroyed the civilization and killed their brothers? from my point of view, this would fit better not if They told the ancients to destroy theirselves by the construction of an ultimate weapon (we have no image of that, the thing would most fit this description is the Ancient Gateway or the staff), but instead They shared Their knowledge and it was too big for mortal minds, leading them to insanity. that is a very original idea, i liked it Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Guy Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Thank you very much for the compliments. I think you got it right: it was basically the "elder fools" who killed their own brothers with the power of the shadows and their pseudo-science. Obviously there are no real confirmations of this, but I find it interesting that, during the clash with the Ancient Fuelweaver, he says that "You are not Them...", as if for a moment he had had the doubt. Also, once killed, he asks: "Who are you?" almost as if he were really confused about our "nature". Perhaps the act of bringing him back to life and the use of techno-magical artifacts is something "they" taught, and that leaves the Ancient Fuelweaver surprised, confused. We are not "they", but we use some of their devices; who we are? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VouMorrer Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 32 minutes ago, Pop Guy said: nice image, certainly deserves a vignette! now that you have talked about the fuelweaver, there is a quote that i find particular hard to find a meaning in this new context: "They are coming. It cannot be stopped" we cannot stop Them from invading our minds? it would make Them evil or agressive somehow, wich is exactly what we are trying to avoid here. is Their nature to give Their knowledge, so we cannot go against nature? Spoiler ok, They in this quote is not necessarily Them becouse the T is the first letter, caption may be tricky here, but that is too boring. what do you think of that? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassielu Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Pop Guy said: Maxwell says "They" are just watching, and maybe they got bored. As if they were curious, looking for something new to learn, not destroy. I think "watching" doesn't mean do noting. Take the moon, for example. Quote “The cave provides sanctuary from the \"moon's\" prying eyes.”——Maxwell “The gem conjures water springs in conjunction with the \"moon's\" cycles.”——Maxwell “Needs the gaze of Mani to work.”——Wigfrid Based on moonlens, moonrock portal, moon dial and some official art. Moon is like a giant eye and it's "sight" is magical. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohan Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Return of the Doydoys is what im personally hoping for Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alements Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Personally i think that They are both the shadow entity and the moon entity, there is evidence for both of them suggesting that they are Them, the murals depict both a light and dark energy from the gateway. Yet the moon entity and the dark entity are fighting whilst Charlie seemingly sits on the side, the ancients have been corrupted by nightmare fuel and now seem to obey 3 masters, the king/fuelweaver, the nightmare throne and the dark entity. The dark entity seems to be trapped through the ancient gateway as the fuelweaver is trying to stop us from making the same mistake with quotes like "you will fall as we did" that suggest that he is trying to keep the dark entity from escaping while charlie seems to want the light and dark entities to fight. Anyway that's just my thoughts on the matter. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobbstar Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Ohan said: Return of the Doydoys is what im personally hoping for This is why we got ocean stuff. It even brings Messages in Bottles, the Trident, and Wobsters! All signs point towards a glorious come-back of the Doydoys. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Am I the only one who gets a “Fantasy Island” vibe from this game? As in the mostly peaceful looking paradise that we are in is not all that it Seems to be, I mean DS and DST has always had some questionably creepy mob designs, from Klaus looking like some mad laboratory project, to the newer Moon Penguins & Horror Hounds appearing when a chunk of the MOON landed in the Oceans of DST. I mean: Think about it for a Moment.. the MOONS powers has always done some slightly freaky and (mostly evil) influence on the world of Dont Starve. Examples: On a full moon night Pigs become Werewolves, Woodie suffers some random Transformation, Ghosts awakin from their graves angry & ready to kill, the decapitated Merm and Pig Heads on Sticks Re-Animate to Life, Chester filled with a full stack of Nightmare fuel transforms into Shadow Chester.. In Hamlet: Pig people have become a highly intelligent civilization, Spiders & Splumonkey seem to have been merged together into some Spider-Ape abomination, Plants come to life as literal walking Piranha plants.. Entire biomes became intoxicated to travel through.. and I’m going to go ahead and say it’s because HAMLET is in the SKY above DST, and Thus was Closer to the MOON and it’s Powers. The TL:DR- MOON BAD.. and now there’s a literal chunk of it in the Ocean of DST and who knows what all that’s transforming, mutating or making more powerful Because it’s now closer to the ground. I really hope Klei doesn’t just drop a part of the moon into the ocean and not make things Creepy/mutated/more intelligent/Transformed/Whatever. Since DS’s creation the moon has always held some kind of strange (and observably BAD) influence on the world. I mean if you need Further proof- The things that inhabit Lunar/Moon Island sure as HECK don’t look friendly: Shattered Spiders, Walking.. living.. food, Gashalts.. Im going to go ahead and say that “Them” is the Moon people/creatures/things.. and that “Where they are returning from” is from the Moon, the “How” Charlie literally pulled a chunk of it out of the Sky... but the “WHY” I don’t really know, maybe she needs to bring a worse evil back to fight the Shadows so she can distract them long enough to escape their control? Who knows.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alements Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 If They are the moon then Who destroyed the ancients? The fuelweaver blames Them for destroying the ancient civilization. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Guy Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 4 hours ago, VouMorrer said: nice image, certainly deserves a vignette! now that you have talked about the fuelweaver, there is a quote that i find particular hard to find a meaning in this new context: "They are coming. It cannot be stopped" we cannot stop Them from invading our minds? it would make Them evil or agressive somehow, wich is exactly what we are trying to avoid here. is Their nature to give Their knowledge, so we cannot go against nature? Reveal hidden contents ok, They in this quote is not necessarily Them becouse the T is the first letter, caption may be tricky here, but that is too boring. what do you think of that? To answer you, I would like to take Hamlet as an example: There is a catastrophic event that occurs cyclically; it is related to the motion of the Earth and the Moon; the ancient pigs built a clock to regulate this astronomical mechanism and, (perhaps) build ancient iron sentinels to defend themselves. The point is that the motion of the stars cannot be stopped: cyclically, the gates of hell will open and will bring what lies there. However, I want to point out that the ancient Herald (defined by Wendy as "a prophet") is essentially neutral: Once the player has moved away (even slightly) from the place of his manifestation, it will be completely neutral. It has no hostile intentions, although his shadow "nature" suggests otherwise. It is just a messenger after all. A message from those gods ("them"?) Who cyclically return in concomitance with the super-celestial motions. This is why it is called "Constant"; here for their return is "ineluctable". The survivors are experiencing a story that has already happened countless times. (Image taken from google, I ignore the author. But I like the almost "contemplative" pose of the prophet. Look at the stars, anxiously awaiting the advent...) 4 hours ago, Cassielu said: I think "watching" doesn't mean do noting. Yet in Don't Starve it seems that most of the threats we encounter were directly created or manipulated by Maxwell. What did "they" actively do to kill us? Nothing. In Don't Starve Together it seems to be Charlie who has the reins, "They" appear far away once again, almost an otherworldly whisper. Of course, they may have returned, but they don't seem willing to manifest themselves (for now). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
YETI Spaghetti Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 On 1/16/2021 at 1:06 PM, Slagger said: Yeah, also that make me wonder about Maxwell quote about merms. He said they was here before me but how? Who was the old owner of throne? probably an unnamed character sucked in before maxwell, because in the new mobile game (which may or not be canon) it shows what the constant is like after wilson took over that things have changed so there mustve been someone before maxwell to add merms and stuff Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarki Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 So what do we know about the shadow gods aka Them: Eye seem to be Their symbol, thulecite whispering suit/crown skins, portal during outbreak, etc.). The Ancients created the portal to Their dimension. Portal was contained/stabilized by moon magic. On the right side of the first mural we can see the shadow leaking. Ancients still have no idea what to do with the sticky black liquid, so it causes minor damage. Spoiler Wow, this sticky black liquid is really useful! Let's make some clockworks, grow some food, use gem magic, resurrect some skeletons and make people worship me, The Ancient Fuelweaver. Yes, it's this guy with the Ancient-Cane-like staff using fuel so much in these murals. His mind gets uploaded into the resurrected skeleton, probably due to it being close to the portal. Spoiler Prepare for Unforeseen Consequences Mr. Fuelweaver. Lunar bonds barely seen on the previous mural are now absent. Fuel overuse causes massive shadow outbreak. The Ancients are turned into Terrorbeaks (or, at least, into some fuelmutant / transitional stage?), dusk moths - into Horrors. The end of the cycle... Spoiler ... or not? The portal gets destroyed. Is The Priest With The (Tragic?) Torch fighting shadows so desperately the reason? Or the portal's inability to channel Their full power? Anyway, The Priest is dead, civilization - in ruins, nightmare energy - unstable. Spoiler Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 5 hours ago, YETI Spaghetti said: which may or not be canon Is confirmed by klei that isnt canon Its made by other company, it only has the permission of klei to have the name dont starve, nothing else Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russian_Philin Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 On 1/17/2021 at 1:16 AM, Scypham said: Charlie could be looking to repair the gateway and harness lunar magic in some way so she can summon Them. The Moon, which has regenerative properties, and the fact that a passage to the Ancient Archives was opened, I think that suggests both this event that you said. It seems to me that the Gate wants to restore, using all the resources and knowledge. Perhaps the Gate will have to be "reset " and "reset " the whole world. That would be really interesting. Do we also have these strange altars on moon island that form some sort of portal or something? I also remember that there are Gatekeepers.. Just a quick guess.. Maybe they're stuck on the Moon and trying to escape.. This, of course, is nonsense, but what if.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1417999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cropo Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 If Singleplayer DS has anything left in canon post-Maxwell it's in Hamlet. The Iron Hulk was said by Klei in a stream to be the remains of a tool of war used to fight in an ancient war that has long since passed and it doesn't realize it. It's able to harm shadow creatures but cannot fight the ancient herald. The infused Iron it drops, Wagstaff claims is ''Infused with ancient arcane technology''. Curious how closely this resembles the stuff down underground in the constant. It could be that Hamlet is actually a future representation of what the Don't Starve universe will look like, and DST is the journey to that point maybe? I've made long posts in the past making a connection between singleplayer DS DLC and DST, I don't think it's a coincidence that the world of Hamlet is high above the sky, ONLY the magic seal items crafted require nightmare fuel to craft on the obsidian workbench, that Woodlegs was locked up and one of his keys is guarded by a creature from underneath the sea that Wagstaff hints couldn't have even been made in the Shipwrecked world due to lack of iron(which is only in Hamlet), or even that being killed by the Iron Hulk lists your death cause as ''Shenanigans''....maybe even that Wes makes a balloon mech suit in his short. There is going to be a great war with the shadows, and we're going to assemble powerful weapons of mass destruction to combat them with the help of the arcane technology we will soon have full access to, I've made really long posts here brainstorming some things that lead me to believe Shipwrecked is what the constant was like before Maxwell had arrived, that the shadow creatures originate in the sea, and that there is another force that is seperate from our party of characters and the shadow creatures that seem to be influencing our discoveries. Although it's really disorganized and makes a few assumptions. Maybe the characters walking around in the DLC's as we play them aren't canon, but I think the lore details behind the two DLC's do have canon to the greater lore of this series in them. It's possible that the Aporkalypse is actually what will become of the moon when this ''war'' ends, with the shadows claiming victory and completely corrupting even the moon Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126182-return-of-who-how-why-and-from-where/page/2/#findComment-1418251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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