Having more characters - With a new turn on unlocking them...

[ADM]

Okay I have something nice to unravel today, it's an idea I had from a long time but this thread of @ShadowDuelist got me thinking about that once more and I decided to discuss over it :

We're gonna talk about a new way to have more unlockable characters without conflicting with the actual system, skin friendly, progress related and allowing the game to improve on its gameplay capacities. Let's get to it. (at the end... you know me)

 

Recall :

So you see, the character unlocking systems of Don't Starve Together and the stand-alone are quite different :

• On DST, you have all of the characters from the start and 3 (with a 4th one later) that you unlock on the client side with spools. Start a game, pick whoever you want, nothing more simple !
• As for the stand-alone, you have to get XP while playing to unlock ALL other characters, with some exceptions such as Webber, Wes, Maxwell, etc... who require in-game events to be unlocked.

But the two of them however have a similar effect on the unlock : you keep the characters for ever (as long you don't unravel them on DST )

Nothing big, you'll tell me. Why would you unlock a character if it is to play it once and then lose it. What ? Warbucks ? I don't know that name... Well, it's not exactly what I'm telling...

 

Limitation Problem :

Now, why is that related to the topic linked on top ? Just look at the pools, the community is kinda puzzled on  "should we have more characters?", so far there is no majority and it's quite understandable cause a new character is all about making it useful for the multiplayer aspect, having a role to play, balancing, meta structure and other very intense stuffs, irk ? We're not talking on this for now.

Anyway, everyone can agree that the game's crew is getting pretty large, the confusion only start when we suggest having more of what we already have to deal with. Which is kinda funny since it only works for characters. The players, me included, never decline having more content on the other aspect of the game : on mobs, biomes, seasons...

So it seems that new characters may be welcome when they serve the new content of the game to make it richer, like the sea and the Moon Island. We just have to look at how many threads are about adding SW characters to DST cause they're now relatable. But this is a slow process, we're gonna have to wait for very significant updates on wide area to add one new character, there must be a way to add more reliably... here it is !

 

Solution (?) :

Okay I've made you wait for long enough... What's the most friendly way to have more characters to the game without flooding it ?

I've discussed on this with some friends, and the nicest way at the moment to me seems to be an admixture of what was the system of Don't Starve with events unlockable characters but server-sided on DST !

 

What do that means ? Basically, you will still have all the standard survivors of the game at the Florid Postern but the next ones added to the game will have to be unlocked after you trigger an event on The Constant (such as it used to be with Wilbur, Woodlegs, etc...) with long process strategies on each servers you play on.

So you can't have them from the very start, making those characters to be late-game or accessible only when they're gonna be useful according to their main abilities, we can imagine some Caves/Ruins sided characters with this system since you won't use them at their full potential when you start.

On the operating part in-game on how you pick the unlocked character, it could simply be a gateway that spawn after completing the event, using it will display a HUD like with the wardrobe so you can decide your skins and instantly switch to the said character, maybe doing such could also unlock it for the Celestial Portal, but it may depend of who.

 

This could allow the game to implement more hardcore or even "meme" play-style characters that have a bigger impact for yourself without conflicting with public-server for other players who want to play without carrying someone that cannot survive by itself at the start. Wes is (at now, we'll see with the rework) maybe the only exception but many think he's fine.

Theoretically, this could make the game exploits more advanced powers for players cause they cannot be rushed to get benefits out of it that fast, keeping the balance and figure out what to do next in the game developments with the new possibilities.

 

That's it for today I hope you like the idea and maybe figure out something to improve it. I didn't wanted to give character ideas but only on how to get them to open a new field of view for the game, but feel free to tell if you have character ideas.

[MondayNight]

Realistically, knowing how bulk of player base "operates" (playing mostly just 1st autumn, doing no boss whatsoever, never going to caves - thus not even talking about Ruins, running from mobs like Treeguards and Spider Queens when not dying from them that is, etc), having characters locked behind end-game content in a multiplayer setup means most people from said player base will never get to have those characters. And that in turn is not a profitable business model as packs related to such characters wouldn't be useful to people not able to unlock them (think reskins of items for said characters). Oh well... a debatable matter.

[NSAiswatchingus]

2 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Realistically, knowing how bulk of player base "operates" (playing mostly just 1st autumn, doing no boss whatsoever, never going to caves - thus not even talking about Ruins, running from mobs like Treeguards and Spider Queens when not dying from them that is, etc), having characters locked behind end-game content in a multiplayer setup means most people from said player base will never get to have those characters. And that in turn is not a profitable business model as packs related to such characters wouldn't be useful to people not able to unlock them (think reskins of items for said characters). Oh well... a debatable matter.

I agree with this over all. It wouldn't be in Klei's best interest to make multiple characters for this, but it would be cool if they made ONE. Server side like OP said, unlocked through a series of in game events, then available through the Celestial Portal. 

Obviously, a lot of players wouldn't be able to unlock the character, but that's what makes it cool. It's equal parts new content and bragging rights. Plus, it would be another item in a long list of things to motivate new players to get better at the game and stick with it. 

[ShadowDuelist]

17 minutes ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

I agree with this over all. It wouldn't be in Klei's best interest to make multiple characters for this, but it would be cool if they made ONE. Server side like OP said, unlocked through a series of in game events, then available through the Celestial Portal. 

Obviously, a lot of players wouldn't be able to unlock the character, but that's what makes it cool. It's equal parts new content and bragging rights. Plus, it would be another item in a long list of things to motivate new players to get better at the game and stick with it. 

Plot twist: the character unlocked for pro players only ends up being Wes's twin brother, Wus, who's half as strong and twice as hungry as he is.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

maybe in that way that kind of players make an effort to play better and cooperate to unlock it and you prevent noobs choosing wes so klei doesnt need to buff him

[luv]

11 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

maybe in that way that kind of players make an effort to play better and cooperate to unlock it and you prevent noobs choosing wes so klei doesnt need to buff him

I agree. Put wes in a cage in DST. Only unlockable by killing misery toadstool.

[Mike23Ua]

Wes should’ve never been available from the start of DST, he should be locked behind having to learn a great deal about the game first.

Those of us who are demanding a Wes Rework are doing so because of that very issue.

If I build a garden of flowers and a honey farm and I place a sign that says “please don’t pick the flowers” the EXPERIENCED Wes players will instantly know NOT to pick said flowers because it will kill my Bee Farm.

The UN-EXPERIENCED Wes players are going try to read my signs only getting silly Mime Movements.. and Then they are going to build a bunch of Balloons because that’s the only Useless unique feature he has they’ll lose all their Sanity, and then they’ll run around picking all my Flowers because even a complete Noob knows that picking Flowers = Free Sanity Regain.

The problem? not being able to Read signs doesn’t make Wes anymore challenging.. it makes him Annoying.

I say this BECAUSE, if I see a Wes in my Game trying to read a Sign i’ll Walk over to it and Examine it so my character reads it and Dumb Useless Wes can read it through ME having to go there and read it to him.

If Wes could pick said signs up himself and hold them to you (the person playing the games screen) pointing at what it says so YOU can read it, I wouldn’t HAVE to drop what I am doing and go read a sign FOR Him.

A simple Wes change.... but one I’m sure many people who hate Wes and instantly ban him from their servers would be thankful for.

Theres Also the fact that in a Sea of Reworks Wes still being Useless would make him feel out of place, the Dude has a pile of Balloons and is a Mime For Pete sake... His Balloons even have animal shapes and colors to them.

so why CANT A Spider shaped Wes Balloon Lure Spiders towards it thinking it’s a real Spider?

Why CANT a Red Balloon Anger a mob of Beefalo to chase after it?

The TL:DR-

Wormwood, Warly & now even a 1hp Wendy can be considered “Challenge” characters, but they are all fun to play as and useful to a team.

I wouldn’t Mind if they locked Wes behind skill learned.. but I’m sure that wouldn’t be fair to the people who simply enjoy playing as Wes from the start regardless of how he plays.  

Plz Klei if you do nothing else at all to Wes- Let him read his own signs!! 

I don’t even understand how that’s supposed to be “challenging” in the first place lol...

[Illumina]

11 hours ago, ADM said:

Okay I have something nice to unravel today, it's an idea I had from a long time but this thread of @ShadowDuelist got me thinking about that once more and I decided to discuss over it :

We're gonna talk about a new way to have more unlockable characters without conflicting with the actual system, skin friendly, progress related and allowing the game to improve on its gameplay capacities. Let's get to it. (at the end... you know me)

 

Recall :

So you see, the character unlocking systems of Don't Starve Together and the stand-alone are quite different :

• On DST, you have all of the characters from the start and 3 (with a 4th one later) that you unlock on the client side with spools. Start a game, pick whoever you want, nothing more simple !
• As for the stand-alone, you have to get XP while playing to unlock ALL other characters, with some exceptions such as Webber, Wes, Maxwell, etc... who require in-game events to be unlocked.

But the two of them however have a similar effect on the unlock : you keep the characters for ever (as long you don't unravel them on DST )

Nothing big, you'll tell me. Why would you unlock a character if it is to play it once and then lose it. What ? Warbucks ? I don't know that name... Well, it's not exactly what I'm telling...

 

Limitation Problem :

Now, why is that related to the topic linked on top ? Just look at the pools, the community is kinda puzzled on  "should we have more characters?", so far there is no majority and it's quite understandable cause a new character is all about making it useful for the multiplayer aspect, having a role to play, balancing, meta structure and other very intense stuffs, irk ? We're not talking on this for now.

Anyway, everyone can agree that the game's crew is getting pretty large, the confusion only start when we suggest having more of what we already have to deal with. Which is kinda funny since it only works for characters. The players, me included, never decline having more content on the other aspect of the game : on mobs, biomes, seasons...

So it seems that new characters may be welcome when they serve the new content of the game to make it richer, like the sea and the Moon Island. We just have to look at how many threads are about adding SW characters to DST cause they're now relatable. But this is a slow process, we're gonna have to wait for very significant updates on wide area to add one new character, there must be a way to add more reliably... here it is !

 

Solution (?) :

Okay I've made you wait for long enough... What's the most friendly way to have more characters to the game without flooding it ?

I've discussed on this with some friends, and the nicest way at the moment to me seems to be an admixture of what was the system of Don't Starve with events unlockable characters but server-sided on DST !

 

What do that means ? Basically, you will still have all the standard survivors of the game at the Florid Postern but the next ones added to the game will have to be unlocked after you trigger an event on The Constant (such as it used to be with Wilbur, Woodlegs, etc...) with long process strategies on each servers you play on.

So you can't have them from the very start, making those characters to be late-game or accessible only when they're gonna be useful according to their main abilities, we can imagine some Caves/Ruins sided characters with this system since you won't use them at their full potential when you start.

On the operating part in-game on how you pick the unlocked character, it could simply be a gateway that spawn after completing the event, using it will display a HUD like with the wardrobe so you can decide your skins and instantly switch to the said character, maybe doing such could also unlock it for the Celestial Portal, but it may depend of who.

 

This could allow the game to implement more hardcore or even "meme" play-style characters that have a bigger impact for yourself without conflicting with public-server for other players who want to play without carrying someone that cannot survive by itself at the start. Wes is (at now, we'll see with the rework) maybe the only exception but many think he's fine.

Theoretically, this could make the game exploits more advanced powers for players cause they cannot be rushed to get benefits out of it that fast, keeping the balance and figure out what to do next in the game developments with the new possibilities.

 

That's it for today I hope you like the idea and maybe figure out something to improve it. I didn't wanted to give character ideas but only on how to get them to open a new field of view for the game, but feel free to tell if you have character ideas.

So basically, i paid for a skin for a character i can't even use unless i dedicate around 10 hours in a server?

Not a very good idea tbh...

[Mike23Ua]

24 minutes ago, Ismael Marin said:

So basically, i paid for a skin for a character i can't even use unless i dedicate around 10 hours in a server?

Not a very good idea tbh...

Fair point.

But if they wanted to introduce a super hardcore character into the game that makes Wes and 1hp Wendy’s seem like LoL EZ Mode- then that incredibly hard character should be tied down to having to jump through hoops and mazes to unlock.

WES was this character for Single Player DS.. But in DST he is unlocked from the very beginning of the game right there for anyone to choose.

Rather they know what they’re in for or Not.

If a NEW super hardcore character was added to the game (such as someone who only has 45hp Total and can never have health high then that, meaning that using 40hp to craft a heart to heal someone would leave him at 5 hp remaining...) if something like THAT was added to the game- it needs to be locked behind hoops and mazes.. otherwise it’s the problem with DST Wes picks all over again.

As for me- I would prefer it if we got characters with unique, interesting and FUN play styles that let them stand out and play drastically separate from others.

Meanwhile I wouldn’t let “Challenge Mode” be tied down to the character you pick, but instead rather the Options you set for yourself in a dedicated Options Menu which upon joining a world- will apply those settings to you.

for example- you can set max health to 45%, Max Sanity to 50%, Character Abilities and unique crafting tabs Off, Etc.

Its something you can ALREADY do to a very limited degree in the mobile versions of DS and DS Shipwrecked.... so there is literally no reason at all why it wouldn’t work in DST.

In DS Solo you had to do very Specific tasks to Unlock Wilbur, Woodlegs, Wes and Maxwell..

So I can Understand where the OP’s Idea is inspired from... I just think there should be easier alternatives rather than locking characters behind doing a specific task..

For example- Could you imagine if they redid the Celestial Portal and you can only build it on Lunar Island after killing some Lunar Boss.. and this was the ONLY Way to unlock Wormwood?

He is a Challenge Character because he can not heal through Traditional food munching means.. so he obviously Qualifies for the Suggestion.

[RogueGamer12]

Multiple problems we have with this idea.

If Klei adds a new character, you won't be able to play as them right away. Meaning that if you really want to play as them, you'll have to slog your way to them.

Would the time and money required would be worth it, considering not every player has access to them. People who jump into servers for a hour or two will or not a good hardly get the chance to play as them.

Also i doubt much players are willing to throw money at a character that they have to earn first each time they join a new or make a new sever.

[Canis]

I feel like it would be better if you unlocked characters on the client side, just like Singleplayer. However, we can't exactly lock characters behind something when they've been free for half a decade.

 

Unless we can.
Let's say if you have any amount of time logged into a character, you do not have to unlock them after the mechanic is implemented. HOWEVER, players are able to "Reset Unlock Data" to lock them all again, for people like speedrunners that want a challenge.

We cant really use XP like in singleplayer because we can't assume players will *always* die 100% of the time, so something else will need to be thought up, like in-game feats.

[cantdeletethis]

1.some people's gonna cheat by using console or clever mods just like singleplayer

2. It limits playstyle, what if you want to play unlockable character right on the go?

3. most servers doesn't last long, meaning you won't get to play new character after one or two sessions even if it did unlocked

[ADM]

10 hours ago, Ismael Marin said:

So basically, i paid for a skin for a character i can't even use unless i dedicate around 10 hours in a server?

Yes, if you're willing to use money instead of spools, quite the exact same thing with Belongings, you have to craft it however time it takes you to have your skin. And if you go on another server you obviously don't have your inventory with your items. It's just another perspective but with characters.

 

1 hour ago, Poebus said:

1.some people's gonna cheat by using console or clever mods just like singleplayer

First, there's nothing wrong with that cause they're free characters so the peoples who don't want to enjoy the progress road can do whatever they want. Second, I don't know how you play games but if I want to unlock something I'd personally go the fun way before having to result using the console.

1 hour ago, Poebus said:

2. what if you want to play unlockable character right on the go?

Use the said console then if you figure out how to make it works. As for what you were saying for playstyle limitation just before, I don't get it... The game is using a tree of accomplishment from the start with crafting stations and do so with many other aspects of the game so you decide what to focus on first. A playstyle is not about doing everything it is possible to do instantly, no, a playstyle is a selection of some of the core elements and it can change from you total playtime/knowledge (even if I personally know some players who don't learn a thing after 400h) and current game progress. Unless your playstyle is using the console, then you can do anything you want.

 

I'd also have to quote a lot about this point but, why do you want to limit the game development to picking flowers at the world spawn ?

I personally play and love this game cause we can go as far as we want, so if there is updates I'd way prefer it to be something I can still want to bother with after 1000 days than something I'll finish right after I've started a new world with a bunch of peoples speed-running the hole thing and then looking each-other saying : "What do we do now?" for the simple reason they finished their objectives without completing it the standard way, neglecting the default course of the game. That's the cool thing about sandbox games if you don't mind the etiquette, you are free to keep playing regardless of how long the most of the players can go : If they're happy with what they can accomplish by little, it's not an excuse to keep you from going further.

[Illumina]

On 26/3/2020 at 1:29 AM, ADM said:

Yes, if you're willing to use money instead of spools, quite the exact same thing with Belongings, you have to craft it however time it takes you to have your skin. And if you go on another server you obviously don't have your inventory with your items. It's just another perspective but with characters.

There's a difference, an elegant item skin, doesn't costs as much as an entire character / character skin, take note an item is worth it because in servers there's a high chance of getting that item in just an hour of gameplay, and that item doesn't impacts heavily gameplay, meanwhile if we were talk about a character, considering you need to do an specific event that could take an entire year of DST, it feels like a waste of money, because i ain't going to pay like 20 dollars (as an example of a Guest of Honor skin) for a skin that i can't even use because i'm not that dedicated to stay in a single server.

On 25/3/2020 at 3:42 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Fair point.

But if they wanted to introduce a super hardcore character into the game that makes Wes and 1hp Wendy’s seem like LoL EZ Mode- then that incredibly hard character should be tied down to having to jump through hoops and mazes to unlock.

WES was this character for Single Player DS.. But in DST he is unlocked from the very beginning of the game right there for anyone to choose.

Rather they know what they’re in for or Not.

If a NEW super hardcore character was added to the game (such as someone who only has 45hp Total and can never have health high then that, meaning that using 40hp to craft a heart to heal someone would leave him at 5 hp remaining...) if something like THAT was added to the game- it needs to be locked behind hoops and mazes.. otherwise it’s the problem with DST Wes picks all over again.

As for me- I would prefer it if we got characters with unique, interesting and FUN play styles that let them stand out and play drastically separate from others.

Meanwhile I wouldn’t let “Challenge Mode” be tied down to the character you pick, but instead rather the Options you set for yourself in a dedicated Options Menu which upon joining a world- will apply those settings to you.

for example- you can set max health to 45%, Max Sanity to 50%, Character Abilities and unique crafting tabs Off, Etc.

Its something you can ALREADY do to a very limited degree in the mobile versions of DS and DS Shipwrecked.... so there is literally no reason at all why it wouldn’t work in DST.

In DS Solo you had to do very Specific tasks to Unlock Wilbur, Woodlegs, Wes and Maxwell..

So I can Understand where the OP’s Idea is inspired from... I just think there should be easier alternatives rather than locking characters behind doing a specific task..

For example- Could you imagine if they redid the Celestial Portal and you can only build it on Lunar Island after killing some Lunar Boss.. and this was the ONLY Way to unlock Wormwood?

He is a Challenge Character because he can not heal through Traditional food munching means.. so he obviously Qualifies for the Suggestion.

This whole text, is basically saying, Wes should be unlockable.

Why would Klei add a super hardcore character to a MULTIPLAYER game? Klei already learnt from their mistakes ,and probably will eventually re-work Wes to be cooperative with the survivors, they obviously aren't going to add a new character that could completely screw up the players in the server.

On 26/3/2020 at 1:29 AM, ADM said:

Use the said console then if you figure out how to make it works. As for what you were saying for playstyle limitation just before, I don't get it... The game is using a tree of accomplishment from the start with crafting stations and do so with many other aspects of the game so you decide what to focus on first. A playstyle is not about doing everything it is possible to do instantly, no, a playstyle is a selection of some of the core elements and it can change from you total playtime/knowledge (even if I personally know some players who don't learn a thing after 400h) and current game progress. Unless your playstyle is using the console, then you can do anything you want.

 

 

 

So, Klei has to do extra work to program an working console command for every character? They can't just copy n' paste the code in solo Don't Starve, since in DST they changed engine.

[Mike23Ua]

I’m not going to quote that above to avoid large walls of texts- But I will just say that I can think of at least one Character that should be unlockable through special means in DST- Charlie... and that’s ONLY after you beat the game and Free her from the influence of the Nightmare Throne.

[kiwikenobi]

Having entire new characters exclusive to that method sounds like it would be frustrating, but maybe there could be a "secret" version of existing characters, like the triumphant skins, only with associated powers. You get to the depths of the ruins, you mess with the fuelweaver or some other new, secret boss or puzzle or something, and you get something that transforms your current character into a version of them with new shadow powers and a matching new look.

Might even be the same new abilities for all characters, to make it perhaps easier to implement. Maybe they're all able to craft the same new tool or weapon using nightmare fuel or something. Maybe they could somehow consume nightmare fuel for health or hunger or even sanity. Maybe Charlie won't attack them anymore because they've become one with the shadows or something. Something that would be way too broken for the early game, but might mix things up in the late game, which is the only time you'd presumably be able to unlock that "secret" version of the characters.

And it would still be restricted to that one world, and you'd have to re-earn it in other worlds, which would go more with the original idea presented here.

[Axelocke]

52 minutes ago, kiwikenobi said:

-snip-

That could actually be a really fun end-game bonus to mess around with, like the Living Artifact from Hamlet, which was a limited time suit that granted invulnerability and new attacks for 3 minutes(?).

An idea like that for the very end-game of DST would be awesome, and as a bonus would incentivize players to stick around longer/reach the end to mess around with their character's end-game abilities. Great idea! 

[Terra_Zina]

I would not want to buy a character if I had to defeat the fuelweaver in order to get it. There's a huge powerspike between the Beequeen, Toadstool and Fuelweaver compared to every other boss in the game. There's people with over 1000 hours who still can't defeat the former.

[Warlockadamm]

I don't know if it would fit with DST, but i would really enjoy weekly quest to be implemented into the game. Just like in the gorge or the forge.

"Build 5 farm" "Build a shadow manipulator" "Fish a fish over 200 pound" "Kill 50 spiders". "Survive X amount of days". You get the idea.

With those weekly quest we could either earn random skin or experience point towards new or old character that could be lock. Meaning new people need to learn over time some basic stuff and more advance players now have little goals when surviving. It would be both cool and rewarding in my opinion. There could be like 3 different category of quest too. Beginner, Surviver, Advance, the harder the difficulty, better skin drop or more experience point.

[rico0]

7 minutes ago, Warlockadamm said:

I don't know if it would fit with DST, but i would really enjoy weekly quest to be implemented into the game. Just like in the gorge or the forge.

"Build 5 farm" "Build a shadow manipulator" "Fish a fish over 200 pound" "Kill 50 spiders". "Survive X amount of days". You get the idea.

With those weekly quest we could either earn random skin or experience point towards new or old character that could be lock. Meaning new people need to learn over time some basic stuff and more advance players now have little goals when surviving. It would be both cool and rewarding in my opinion. There could be like 3 different category of quest too. Beginner, Surviver, Advance, the harder the difficulty, better skin drop or more experience point.

https://support.klei.com/hc/en-us/articles/360035456011-Intrinsic-vs-Extrinsic-rewards

[Warlockadamm]

Some of this is true, but the link you sent is old from 2012... I'm rather certain the mentality of both the community  and the dev themself have change alot since then.

Of course some player would cheat, others would use mods or even debug menu. But if the majority of players would be playing the game normaly, would it be fair to prevent such a feature because of a few bad seed ? Also the link you sent was for Don't starve single player, while it was still in it's early stage. DST is much more then that.

 

It is a really interesting article though ! Thanks for sharing

19 minutes ago, coheru said:

https://support.klei.com/hc/en-us/articles/360035456011-Intrinsic-vs-Extrinsic-rewards

Forgot to quote what I was referencing my bad